Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Juku121]

So I could easily disable my mod and return the older save file.

That will eat whatever time you've invested into playing since then. But fair enough, most of these issues can be worked around via save editing anyway.

So I think I know what happened. I made the changes in early February 1999.

So since the game actually starts in December 1996, I think month 27 is February 1999.

December '96 is month 0, so month 27 is actually March.

So I checked back the old save files before the changes in early February 1999 and lo and behold, there was a mission underway to create a new base.

I assume this has been completed in February and I only found out about it in March.

If the mission isn't in the save, it can't create a new base. You should have seen either the mission or the new base when you looked.
Edit: Well, I suppose you did and it was a lingering mission from the manorpocalypse era. Missions already in the save can linger for however long they've been set up to. Even vanilla X-Com has multi-month abduction missions etc because of that.
Edit2: But this is also why just removing parts of the mod is dangerous. Had you removed the STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT mission together with the mission script, new games would have been fine but a save could get borked. This kind of comes up on rare occasions when the mod gets updated and people try it on old saves.

[amokk_gw]

Yes I know the progress in the meantime would be lost, but if something is really wrong you usually see it within a reasonable amount of time.

Ohh okay, I didn't know that missions linger around for multiple months. This is actually the first time I spend some serious time looking at the save file.

Edit2: But this is also why just removing parts of the mod is dangerous. Had you removed the STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_BLACK_LOTUS_ASSAULT mission together with the mission script, new games would have been fine but a save could get borked. This kind of comes up on rare occasions when the mod gets updated and people try it on old saves.

Yeah the save just wouldn't load. It happend already a couple of times, but it's usually just a matter of figuring out what's wrong and then fixing it. And I do check for references across the whole mod before I remove something. The whole structure system is actually quite well made. If there is an ID in use that doesn't exist anymore, the game just wouldn't start until you fix it. It's not always elegant, but it works at the end of the day and I learn quite a bit in the process.

Thanks for your assistance!

[Dreams_Of_Cheese]

I love the Osiron Hacienda mission. It scratches the SWAT-y breaching a fortress gameplay I think that the early cult stuff lacks. Super good mission!

I ended up getting a Mrrshan Rifle out of it, which is the first time I've ever seen one. It seems like it has no prerequisite researches to manufacture and use, so I suppose my question is firstly is that intended? And second, where would I have found this weapon in normal gameplay? It's a pretty nice upgrade -- pulse rifles before the invasion even starts without selling my soul to MAGMA.

[Solarius Scorch]

Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me. I don't even like the X-Com interception minigame much, so I don't feel particularly enthused to work on it... But I do work on it, occasionally.

Maybe I'll create a new thread solely for this, if need be.

Well, X-Com craft are about halfway defined by their weapons loadout, so you could give heavy missiles to Interceptors and maybe both light and heavy to Ravens. That'd make the MiG-31 "baby's first interceptor" and Interceptors a meaningful upgrade.

Hmm, I'll consider that, thanks.

Still, it's only half of the problem; the other half is that planes are too close to one another.

Unless you want Interceptors and Ravens to still be rather vulnerable to cultist craft, that seemed okay to me.

Not particularly. Only fictional enemy fighters, like the Angel, should be able to compete with the Interceptor on equal terms.

You could also start putting more shields, armour, evasion and other crazy stuff on both UFOs and X-Com craft.

That counts as a "total overhaul"

By the way, MIG19 mission (also instead supposed to be 17?) uses MiG29, maybe bug?

Not exactly a bug, since it doesn't cause any issues, but it is an internal typo. I will fix it.

Although what's the mod's 'pilotsEmergencyEvacuationSurvivalChance', still 100? Then it doesn't really matter. And I'm using 75%, so different experience again.

Right, it was missing. Felt not right, so I changed it.

Edit: And, yeah, the Kitsune research requirements seem unchanged (there's a random 1/3 chance to fail to find the thing as well). Was there actually a plan to make it harder to access or am I misremembering?

There was, but hasn't happened yet. Any suggestions?

I love the Osiron Hacienda mission. It scratches the SWAT-y breaching a fortress gameplay I think that the early cult stuff lacks. Super good mission!

Thanks! It's rare, so hard to get any feedback on.

I ended up getting a Mrrshan Rifle out of it, which is the first time I've ever seen one. It seems like it has no prerequisite researches to manufacture and use, so I suppose my question is firstly is that intended? And second, where would I have found this weapon in normal gameplay? It's a pretty nice upgrade -- pulse rifles before the invasion even starts without selling my soul to MAGMA.

This weapon can only be gotten from some very specific places in the mod; paart from the Hacienda, I can only think of one other place where it might appear. As such, it is indeed a random gift which is supposed to be a little OP compared to normal guns of this level.

EDIT: @Juku: Did the change with the Interceptor as you suggested. Let's see what happens!

[Juku121]

Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me.

Well, you could farm the design work out to amokk_gw. Or Dioxine. Piratez has a fair amount of complexity there.

[Kitsune stuff]
There was, but hasn't happened yet. Any suggestions?

Hmm, not sure either. Maybe Advanced Intel Center? Thay may not be enough, though. Perhaps some high-up cultist interrogation, or possibly even a separate mission to save some hapless Kiryu-Kai veteran who tells you where to start looking?

Edit: Thought about it some more. This is probably too convoluted, but when has that stopped me?

Have there be 'Kitsune rumours' when researching Promo III and Kiryu-Kai. Then, when you get the Advanced Intel Center (or perhaps High Access Level would be more appropriate) and hit month 20 or so (the start of the manorpocalypse, perhaps randomised to plus or minus a few months), unlock a message that says your spies have found out more rumours and it's supposed to have crashed into the Amazonian rainforest, then captured and moved to a secret military base in the area. But all contact was lost one day, and the few people in the Brazilian intelligence (or whoever) who knew about where it was located met strange, untimely deaths.

Now spawn a new 'alien' base somewhere in the Amazon that has been overrun with Chupacabras! Perhaps with a survivor or two locked into well-stocked panic rooms. Maybe even the original pilot. The rumours it's somewhere in there, now you gotta look for it! Might also serve as a late-ish reminder that there could be invisible manors out there and your aircraft have radars.

Not sure which terrain would be suitable for having a Kitsune in a hangar. Maybe the BL base, or the abandoned military base terrain (the one in Cyberweb heists). Both are derived from what were originally X-Com base sets, after all.

Did the change with the Interceptor as you suggested. Let's see what happens!

Cool!

I suspect others might still go "Meh, just wait for the Thunderstorm".

Edit2: It looks like you missed the strings for 'Light Missile'? In both the Pedia and on the craft.

[Stone Lake]

Not exactly a bug, since it doesn't cause any issues, but it is an internal typo. I will fix it.

I mean, there already was MIG_29 interception mission (actually also with typo - STR_CULT_GREATEST_MANOR_MI29_INTERCEPTION).
And there is STR_MIG17 defined in UFOs, but it isn't used in any mission.
Thus I assumed one of the cults was supposed to use MiG-17 instead of both using MiG-29, as of now.

That being said they're all essentially the same but still...

Now spawn a new 'alien' base somewhere in the Amazon that has been
overrun with Chupacabras!

This feels like already overused trope. Dr. Alpha's base, Syndicate spider base, every other chupa hunting mission.

I think something like scavenger hunt would be cool. Break mothballed kitsune into multiple parts, and beating some mission enables event for getting the part. For example, divide parts between four cult HQs, so you only get kitsune when you beat them all.

Or between four cult manors of any tier, as it's a tool that lets you somewhat ignore them.

[Juku121]

This feels like already overused trope. Dr. Alpha's base, Syndicate spider base, every other chupa hunting mission.

That's kinda true. My idea was that most of the Chupacabra missions I recall (apart from Dr. Alpha) have been in at least semi-open terrain, and they'd be a lot more dangerous in close quarters. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think we ever face Chupacabras in a maze? Spiders aren't half as bad in my experience. (Do note that I use 'leeroy' spiders and Chupacabras, which are a lot more dangerous.)

Also, I had somehow associated the Kitsune and South American jungle instead of Borneo, and Chupacabra lore is heavily tied to SA.

I think something like scavenger hunt would be cool. Break mothballed kitsune into multiple parts, and beating some mission enables event for getting the part. For example, divide parts between four cult HQs, so you only get kitsune when you beat them all.

Or between four cult manors of any tier, as it's a tool that lets you somewhat ignore them.

It's a cool idea, but I have a hard time seeing a fluffy justification for the cultists to have it.


Hmm, how about an Osiron facility somewhere in SE Asia? Or several, if the scavenger hunt idea takes off. Osiron is also kinda Asian-themed, and Kiryu-Kai was Japanese. And Osiron are the magpies of the setting.

[Stone Lake]

Well, Alpha's is pretty maze-y and chupacabr-y and I do I have flashbacks of it. Thing is, with vanilla monsters most underground base missions are pretty much the same long, boring-but-intimidating hunt for these sneaky last monsters or droids (cyberweb heist). It's just too much of the same experience.
With leeroys I guess it would more fun? I'm not sure.
Although, MIB->Magma attack and Red HQ does feel different.

Yeah Osiron was my first idea, they fit the theme very well, but gameplay wise - I dunno. Existing missions are pretty RNG and aren't much of a challenge that battle for kitsune needs.
And making new mission would kinda defeat the purpose of the hunt.

[Juku121]

Well, Alpha's is pretty maze-y and chupacabr-y and I do I have flashbacks of it.

I have memories of spiders and rats instead. And scorpions. For some reason, there were unproportionally many scorpions in mine.

Thing is, with vanilla monsters most underground base missions are pretty much the same long, boring-but-intimidating hunt for these sneaky last monsters or droids (cyberweb heist).
With leeroys I guess it would more fun? I'm not sure.

You could try it. I hope my Leeroy submod still mostly works for 2.7. Leeroys make monster hunts significantly shorter and add tension, just like the zombie hordes gunning for your brains. Except some of these guys are actually fast (like Chupacabras ).

Yeah Osiron was my first idea, they fit the theme very well, but gameplay wise - I dunno. Existing missions are pretty RNG and aren't much of a challenge that battle for kitsune needs.

And making new mission would kinda defeat the purpose of the hunt.

Er, why?

But even then, a number of special Haciendas with garages holding Kitsune parts doesn't seem like a bad idea. These have some pretty heavily armed guys. Could even add a few Tech Troopers there to go with the theme.

[amokk_gw]

Not gonna lie, the air game is 0% fun to design for me. I don't even like the X-Com interception minigame much, so I don't feel particularly enthused to work on it... But I do work on it, occasionally.

I'm happy to assist with that. I really enjoy balancing the air game. Here's what I've got so far in case you want to use some of it:

I balanced both the MiG-31 and the Arrow for Promotion II and to work with 1 normal cannon so far.

Spoiler:

Code: [Select]

  crafts:
  - type: STR_ARROW
    requires:
      - STR_ARROW
    fuelMax: 2000
    damageMax: 21
    speedMax: 1900
    accel: 4
    weapons: 2
    weaponTypes:
      - 0
      - 2
    weaponStrings: [STR_CANNON, STR_LIGHT_MISSILES]
    soldiers: 1
    vehicles: 0
    pilots: 1
    maxItems: 999
    allowLanding: false
    costBuy: 225000
    costSell: 110000
    costRent: 40000
    refuelRate: 50
    radarRange: 672
    radarChance: 100
    sightRange: 1696
    transferTime: 96
    score: 150
  - type: STR_MIG31
    requires:
      - STR_MIG31
    fuelMax: 2000
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 1400
    accel: 3
    weapons: 2
    weaponTypes:
      - 0
      - 2
    weaponStrings: [STR_CANNON, STR_LIGHT_MISSILES]
    soldiers: 1
    vehicles: 0
    pilots: 1
    maxItems: 999
    allowLanding: false
    costBuy: 175000
    costRent: 30000
    costSell: 85000
    refuelRate: 50
    radarRange: 672
    radarChance: 100
    sightRange: 1696
    transferTime: 96
    score: 110


And here are the "cult" crafts. Haven't tested the helicopters properly yet, but the jets work well against both the MiG and the Arrow. In all cases the Little Bird got annihilated, but that's mostly because of the guns.

I made the MiG-17 into a overall crappy craft, but I increased the spawn count to 3. The MiG-29 is jack of all trades, master of none. The Mirage has a high reload time, but also high damage and is faster than the X-Com MiG and the Phantom is a cannon craft with low range, low damage but constant fire.

Spoiler:

Code: [Select]

ufos:
  - type: STR_AH1_COBRA
    damageMax: 10
    speedMax: 270
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 3
    range: 5
    score: 20   
    reload: 20
  - type: STR_UH_1B_HUEY
    damageMax: 5
    speedMax: 230
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 1
    range: 5
    score: 15
    reload: 10
  - type: STR_MI_24
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 260
    accel: 1
    armor: 1
    power: 15
    range: 10
    score: 30
    reload: 60   
  - type: STR_CHINOOK
    damageMax: 20
    speedMax: 210
    accel: 1
    armor: 0
    power: 5
    range: 10
    score: 25
    reload: 50
  - type: STR_F4_PHANTOM
    damageMax: 30
    speedMax: 1200
    accel: 2 
    range: 15
    power: 1
    score: 50
    reload: 10   
  - type: STR_MIG17
    damageMax: 10
    speedMax: 800
    accel: 2
    power: 10
    range: 10
    score: 25
    reload: 20   
  - type: STR_MIG29
    damageMax: 33
    speedMax: 1300
    accel: 2
    power: 10
    range: 50
    score: 50
    reload: 40 
  - type: STR_MIRAGE   
    damageMax: 24 
    speedMax: 1850
    accel: 2   
    power: 20
    range: 25
    score: 50   
    reload: 150     


[alexander steel wolf]

I have been reading these last entries and I have seen that there are plans for the kitsune.

To tell the truth, it always seemed to me that they gave it to you too "easy". Not that it's necessarily a bad thing, as the mod itself is difficult, but it always seemed a little strange to me that all that knowledge had been "frozen", so to speak, and that no government had tried to replicate all that knowledge technology previously.

I was always struck by a report of some kind of robot called CHAD, which is apparently related to the xenonauts project. Could it be that psychonauts still exist, have gone mad and become half-robots and "guard" secret technologies to use for dark purposes? I'm not saying do a whole arc, but I do have some missions that, when you finish them, give you the kitsune (although I like the idea that they sold some of those technologies to Osiron, and thus special missions with Osiron would be unlocked).

[Juku121]

...it always seemed a little strange to me that all that knowledge had been "frozen", so to speak, and that no government had tried to replicate all that knowledge technology previously.

I was always struck by a report of some kind of robot called CHAD, which is apparently related to the xenonauts project.

How'd you get that from the Ufopedia articles?

CHAD is supposedly Kiryu-Kai (Japanese) tech, and Xenonauts were primarily a US-Soviet enterprise (well, at least in their own fluff, no idea about Solarius' canon).

The 'Lost Alien Ship Data Analysis' says we have no hope of developing a sufficient tech base for replicating this any time soon. Not X-Com, not the world governments, not the Illuminati Council, not MAGMA, not the Syndicate, nobody. So I imagine they tried and concluded that alien hand-me-downs and tech derived from those were better for their shadow ops than trying to work with Mrrshan propulsion systems (or Gnolam, or whoever these bat critters are ), speedrun a few centuries of tech base development and get who knows what kind of social side effects to go with it.

[alexander steel wolf]

Hi, @Juku121!

We have never had the opportunity to cross words in this forum, but when I read it I always see you involved. Regardless of what may or may not agree with your arguments, your work to improve this mod is commendable, even admirable.

That being said, and responding to your observations, there are things that I have simply deduced, being aware that I could be missing information (either because I have not unlocked it during my game, or because I have never played xenonauts). Thanks for the clarifications, although when I played my first game I thought that the harheads (or whatever they spell), which are those robots with their brains exposed, had some relationship with the psyconauts. I don't know, I liked the idea and I saw a lot of potential, with the whole issue of the factories in which they were replacing humans.

If this idea then cannot be possible, I would then propose special missions against Osiron (that they have the Kitsune pieces).

All the best!

[Juku121]

We have never had the opportunity to cross words in this forum, but when I read it I always see you involved.

It's a phase. It'll pass.

Thanks for the clarifications, although when I played my first game I thought that the harheads (or whatever they spell), which are those robots with their brains exposed, had some relationship with the psyconauts.

I don't really know where the Jarheads fit in the XCF universe, but the fluff text seems to tie them to a Dr. Who organisation.

Spoiler:

Apparently they're now getting closer ties with Dagonites as well.

AFAIK, the 'psychonaut' bit is entirely fan fiction. The Goldhawk game had no substance (ab)use that I can recall, not even non-health medikit charges.

[SBBurzmali]

Thanks! It's rare, so hard to get any feedback on.

For the Hacienda, the lack of a clear path for the AI to close does play havoc with enemy movements from time to time. I've played the map maybe 5 times and after the first, it became clear that the AI didn't really know how to send troops to the parapets, aside from the few that start there, and if I didn't punch a hole in the wall for them to escape, I could lob explosives over into the courtyard and start the morale failure cascade before I'd even breached the gate. After that, most of the enemies units in the main building would congregate in the hallway leading to the front door, making them once again subject to gas and grenades. Overall, I think it is a good mission, it only runs into some trouble once you've seen it enough to exploit the AI behavior on it.