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Author Topic: Suggestions on how to improve the mod  (Read 82185 times)

Offline Meridian

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #390 on: August 04, 2016, 11:14:12 am »
Yup, being able to save several templates would be a huge QoL improvement. I think Meridian is looking into it?

Almost done, I just want to make nicer GUI for it and it can be released.
I'm on holidays now tho, so other things have priority :)

Offline Meridian

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #391 on: August 04, 2016, 05:58:11 pm »
You might be able to get Brainers and Runts though.

Can you?
No, seriously, can you? I'm pretty sure it's not possible.

I don't know if it's possible, but they appear to be set as resources, not units, so seems probable to me, with my total lack of knowledge on the inner workings of this game :)

It's not possible at the moment.
Scientists and engineers are not units, but they are also not items (resources), so they can't be recovered from a mission.

But I can add a few flags here and there and transform flagged civilian survivors into scientists, engineers or even parrots if you wish...

Would anyone be (seriously) interested?

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #392 on: August 04, 2016, 06:29:18 pm »
I will repeat what I have always said: it'd be great to have an option to manufacture soldiers (and, by extension, runts and brainers, if it can be done). If that's possible, recovery can be done through items (like the Experiment Victims), so no separate engine for recovery is really needed.

Offline Alucious

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #393 on: August 04, 2016, 09:41:41 pm »
It's not possible at the moment.
Scientists and engineers are not units, but they are also not items (resources), so they can't be recovered from a mission.

But I can add a few flags here and there and transform flagged civilian survivors into scientists, engineers or even parrots if you wish...

Would anyone be (seriously) interested?

I certainly would! It kind of strains the "realism" of the setting for me that you can just walk into the local settlement and hire as many Brainers as you want for just cash (admittedly a lot of cash - lore-wise my rationale is that most of the initial hiring cost is finding such a smart person in the first place). If Brainers are such a valuable resource for settlements and factions, who out there is willing to sell unlimited supplies of them to our Gals?

What I'd really love is an ability to turn some captives (hire them? brainwash them?) into Brainers, similarly as to how you can turn captives into slaves right now. It would make sense for "smarter" captives to give you more brainpower for your base, so a captured Academy Engineer might turn into 2 Brainers while a Church Maiden might yield 1 Brainer. You might be able to turn this into an income stream like slaves - convert your captives to Brainers and make a little additional profit compared to just ransoming them.

Now I'm not altogether sure about how this would mesh with current game balance, as research speed past the early game is limited more by research buildings in your base instead of acquiring Brainers themselves. This might make the early game drag on a little more, and stress even more the desire to capture people alive instead of killing them.

EDIT: Maybe mid-to-lategame you might want to get a LOT of Brainers without having to capture them, and I think there could be a technology that enables that - maybe you research a contract with the Academy to buy Brainers from them? Or you could have some kind of brain-enhancing chip that when implanted into a Runt turns them into a Brainer?
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 10:09:34 pm by Alucious »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #394 on: August 04, 2016, 10:17:03 pm »
a captured Academy Engineer might turn into 2 Brainers

You don't live in a world with conservation of people? :o

Joking aside, I've always interpreted it as paying a huge fee to get someone smart from somewhere, the local black market just being your contact (that's why there's a delivery time.. most things aren't at the local market). You could increase the delivery further to represent how hard it is to acquire a brainer, but it doesn't really add all that much. You are right that midgame research is usually limited by buildings more than anything (either not having good buildings or not having enough base space to build those buildings in).

I fully support manufacturing soldiers/brainers/runts. I'd love to break a few people so they work for me, and I think it would be cool to break some raiders so their gals join us, and the guys can become HWP or new soldier types. Same for breaking some hybrids or even reticulans.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #395 on: August 04, 2016, 10:18:31 pm »
Mortar needs to use less TUs (such that you can reload and fire on the same turn if you don't move) or deal more damage; as is Hellerium Grenades (and Smoke Grenades/Willy Pete; hell even Frags in most cases) are hands down better than this in pretty much every way; I've struggled to hew out a role for it, but it's just way too TU intensive and cumbersome for the utility you get.

Also I'm down for 'manufacturing' personnel from captives/slaves.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 10:22:59 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #396 on: August 04, 2016, 10:29:12 pm »
Mortar needs to use less TUs (such that you can reload and fire on the same turn if you don't move) or deal more damage; as is Hellerium Grenades (and Smoke Grenades/Willy Pete; hell even Frags in most cases) are hands down better than this in pretty much every way; I've struggled to hew out a role for it, but it's just way too TU intensive and cumbersome for the utility you get.

Really?  I found it to be extremely useful, in fact one of pieces of gear I had in use the longest.  No need to worry about maximum range, hits almost always exactly on target, great damage for a non-hellerium weapon (one-shotting Marsec Bodyguards on a good roll), it's a beautiful piece of artillery.  It's a bit of a loss that you can't fire it every turn, but at least when you do fire it, anything less than power armor is pretty much dead.  It came with me to provide fire support on every supply ship raid I've done, because I use my less-trained gals just in case a nuke goes off.  Grenades require much more training, and even then don't always make it perfectly on target.

Offline Alucious

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #397 on: August 04, 2016, 10:32:25 pm »
You don't live in a world with conservation of people? :o

Haha! Maybe I should have been more precise - it would make sense for "smarter" npcs to contribute more to research than other ones. The Academy Engineer might be twice as productive as a normal Brainer for your research, but he would demand a larger salary as a result, and nicer accommodations in the barracks, etc. It makes sense to represent that him turning into two Brainers-worth as a way to represent that mechanically.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #398 on: August 04, 2016, 10:39:11 pm »
Really?  I found it to be extremely useful, in fact one of pieces of gear I had in use the longest.  No need to worry about maximum range, hits almost always exactly on target, great damage for a non-hellerium weapon (one-shotting Marsec Bodyguards on a good roll), it's a beautiful piece of artillery.  It's a bit of a loss that you can't fire it every turn, but at least when you do fire it, anything less than power armor is pretty much dead.  It came with me to provide fire support on every supply ship raid I've done, because I use my less-trained gals just in case a nuke goes off.  Grenades require much more training, and even then don't always make it perfectly on target.

It's better for rookies yes (and TBH, even then grenades are situationally better at closer ranges); everyone else is better off tossing nades. Between the small inventory size, lower TU costs, comparable power, comparable range, pre-priming, low weight, and pin point accuracy once you get your throwing skill up, a mortar just can't compete with grenades on a trained gal. Hell, even on gals with mediocre throwing I prefer nades because I can easily chuck 2-3 in a turn if I need to.

Probably the biggest advantage mortars have is that the explosion/impact is same turn, but it's just not enough.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2016, 10:48:38 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #399 on: August 04, 2016, 10:49:45 pm »
I think it's plenty for early missions, it fills the indirect fire support role well until you can loot some hellerium grenades and train throwing.  I don't advocate using it as long as I did, but it works damn well when you need that early firepower.

Offline Meridian

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #400 on: August 04, 2016, 10:59:50 pm »
I will repeat what I have always said: it'd be great to have an option to manufacture soldiers (and, by extension, runts and brainers, if it can be done). If that's possible, recovery can be done through items (like the Experiment Victims), so no separate engine for recovery is really needed.

Recovery is easier to implement than manufacturing, but OK, I can do both.

Still, my tiny brain doesn't see the difference between buying a runt for $5000 and "manufacturing" a runt for $5000 :) What is the fundamental difference (that I am missing) that would make it useful for your modding needs? Best if you could give me one example of what you would do with it.

Btw. what should happen when during manufacturing (after it already started) you run out of available living space?

Offline Starving Poet

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #401 on: August 05, 2016, 12:53:27 am »
Hrm - I think in terms of sourcing brainers - I think it would be interesting if rescued civilians at the end of a pogrom were 'recovered'.   They could then be 'book learned' to turn them into brainers or runts or even gals.

It would add a scarcity of human mutant resources to the mix.   You could even out the scarcity by keeping them available to hire, but significantly increasing their purchase price.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #402 on: August 05, 2016, 01:18:45 am »
Still, my tiny brain doesn't see the difference between buying a runt for $5000 and "manufacturing" a runt for $5000 :) What is the fundamental difference (that I am missing) that would make it useful for your modding needs? Best if you could give me one example of what you would do with it.

Btw. what should happen when during manufacturing (after it already started) you run out of available living space?

Three main reasons:
1. You can manufacture from a finite resource, as opposed to buying infinite (and being constrained only with money).
2. You can introduce unique units that way.
3. That's a secret, but you will like it a lot ;)

Also that check should be before manufacturing (just like with craft manufacturing); and manufactured person should already count like occupying space (ditto).

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #403 on: August 05, 2016, 01:47:41 am »
I think it's plenty for early missions, it fills the indirect fire support role well until you can loot some hellerium grenades and train throwing.  I don't advocate using it as long as I did, but it works damn well when you need that early firepower.

I'll be honest, unless you're up against a particularly deadly enemy early on, or have no gals capable of cross-map lobs, even basic HEs are usually preferably because of the litany of advantages. Even the same turn detonation is a situational advantage because with grenades, one unit can prime, and another unit can toss, or the grenades can effectively be relayed around (which can help compensate for the range limitation on weaker gals).

More over, it would be nice to see mortars retain utility beyond what is a very narrow window of the game. Plasma/Hellerium, Poison Gas, Shrapnel (aoe cutting damage) and Chem rounds would all be cool, but I also think that the TU cost needs to enable a reload and fire from the ground for starters (assuming no movement other than turning).

« Last Edit: August 05, 2016, 01:50:52 am by Surrealistik »

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
« Reply #404 on: August 05, 2016, 02:06:53 am »
Balance-wise, for when you first get it, I think it's necessary to not allow multiple gals firing it in a single turn, otherwise you wouldn't ever use grenades at all, just bombard the hell out of the whole map by a crew of gals playing pass-the-mortar.  Remember, Dioxine's point of balance is not to make sitting behind a smoke wall and shelling out everything you see the most attractive option - the closer you get, the more fast-firing options you have.  At the point you get plasma and gas mortar shells, you don't really need to fire more than once every other turn - you flatten whatever you fired at, and it takes another turn to find anything worth firing at again.

I'm not arguing that the mortar is the optimal choice of fire support, but I find it worthwhile to use, even a little later in the game; it's a great situational-use weapon.  Anyways, you should want to move on from the mortar to something like the tornado rocket mortar, or tossing high explosive packs from your uber-trained ubers.