OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Released Mods => XPiratez => Topic started by: AncientSion on April 12, 2016, 10:12:44 am

Title: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 12, 2016, 10:12:44 am
1. Since you are a pirate and are looting freighters, i think that indeed of always findin weapons, ammo and jewerly each once in a while in addition to spare ship parts, most trader vessels should contain actual cargo. For example, bounty should consist of several types of "cargo crates" which basicly hold commercial wares that have only one purpose: fence them.
Im think there should be a few types of cargo crates, called "Merchandise Crate" or "Entertainment Cratess". Depending on the size of the vessel, you can find like 5 to 30 of these cargo crates and they should be the main way to receive "income". This would fit with the whole "Pirates" and "Booty" theme a whole lot better than manufacting a gazillion metric cubes of grog.


Secondly, i dont know if its within the scope of the game engine or can be added as a code mode, but i think it would be very, very nice if the fence market would actually appreciate shortages and overstockages with decreased or appreciated prices. Coming back to the gazillion barrels of grog, even a very simple variable and loop should perhaps be able to decrease the sell value of grog over the course of a game, while increasign the price for more rare commodies.

Im sure there are more good suggestions, but i cant think of any right now.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Boltgun on April 12, 2016, 10:26:09 am
I agree that the recent changes made attacking most ships less of a profit. I did not adapt and now I am spiraling into bankruptcy.

I need to increase alcohol production but it gives the feeling of leading a mafia and not a pirate crew.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 12, 2016, 12:08:52 pm
I agree that very few targets that actually feel like good pickings. Most of the early game what you can handle with acceptable risk is limited. Feels more vulture like then pirate. Mid game more targets are within acceptable risk but rather few of those are actually profitable beyond tech acquisitions.

The list of what are actually big scores with acceptable risk to my mind is:

Freighters. Weak crew, lots of goods, a layout that makes multiple captures pretty easy.

Supply Ships. On open maps where sniping is doable the baby nukes are manageable. Large quantities of high value items. Gauss weapons are always present. So guild supply ships can be a quick leg up since you have good weapons on frail GO and Security that you can then turn against the marsec

Bases: Trader and to a lesser extent academy bases. Most the units in these are fairly frail. Besides the faction leader there are few powerful foes. And in the case of the traders those slots can be either marsec BG or guild reps so it is possible to face only the guildmaster for armor. Academy split there high slot between espers or medics neither of which is particular threat to an experienced crew. Again Gauss weapons guaranteed. However the small size of most bases allows the potential to out number and overwhelm.
Other faction bases are however quite hard. Merc units are just beefy from bottom tier to top. Church bases contain multiple terror units as well two types of power armor foes. Star Gods hehe yeah right.

Pogroms: Actually pretty good pickings if you can handle terror units. Humanist and deep ones battles are fairly easy. Guild is also manageable as long no boomasarus. Raiders are also pretty easy since they spawn fewer units then other attacks and have poorer guns(laser instead of plasma/gauss). Dark one attacks have fewer total units but a higher portion of terror units. Bandits are also pretty easy given a stock of grenades for the armored cars.

Gold transports: actual transport is no more threatening then other freighters and an even better internal configuration for captures. And yeah huge pile of gold.

Most everything else seems like either a major challenge due to volume of foes or almost not worth the ammo.

Grog production and later forgery seems almost necessary to keep things flowing smoothly and to cushion bad luck.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sambojin on April 13, 2016, 05:16:57 am
A lot of it does come down to mafia-style grog and gun-running. I don't actually see that as a problem.

Precisely how much hellerium do you need? And why do you have all these sprayguns laying around?

They're called loot at the end of a mission for a reason. You'll never use most of it, and are meant to fence away plenty of it. It keeps it simple. You can use it if you want, but a decent haul of weapons/ammo/random stuff can give you millions in cash from a few decent intercepts or chases 'til landing. Not to mention hostage values (or robbing them) on top of that. And sometimes you get lucky and find something extraordinarily valuable like a cache of apples to turn in Chateu la Mort. Or a good chunk of gold.

Profitability isn't a huge problem in Xpiratez, as long as you don't horde everything, and do enough landed ufos that fuel isn't ever a concern. You can even get by just fencing stuff and buying fuel if you need to.

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 13, 2016, 05:39:19 am
Actual funds is not so much the point it is more towards what feels rewarding to do and play and not just runabout/fighter/cutter 234. When you need to do many small crafts over and over every month to keep from losing the game to score, in-between preparing for major targets things become dull. This is unfortunately what alot of the mid game involves as you wait for the right captures to come along to pass bottle necks.     
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 13, 2016, 09:09:30 am
I think it would be better to be able to fence simple, yet elegant loot (namely, crates of various flavours as a big commercial loot) instead of 3 sprayguns, 4 shotgun clips, 2 HE Grenades and 1 Battle Rifle.
It would reduce the clutter, micromanagment and instead add to flavour and atmosphere.

The mod is called PIRATEZ for a reason, its not called Grog-Manufactoring-Simulator 2016.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 13, 2016, 11:45:05 am
The multitude of assorted arms types i actually kinda like early in the game makes it feel more scavengey and edge of of survival. Mid game its a mild hassle to keep things tidy and functional but not to bad. late game is where it starts to take its toll housekeeping and shuffling of equipment to multiple base and in and out of dispersed production lines gets time consuming. the in game bootypedia is full to bursting and is much less useful for reference. The whole game dynamic changes and not in a great way.   
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 13, 2016, 12:42:14 pm
housekeeping and shuffling of equipment to multiple base and in and out of dispersed production lines gets time consuming. the in game bootypedia is full to bursting and is much less useful for reference.

Better too much info than not enough info. Also indeed, if you fall into the I-must-control-everything trap, it can get really tedious. Chill out, sit back, and enjoy the journey instead of being obsessed with optimalization and finishing the game. Making that 1000 points a month to keep positive score is really easy.

I think it would be better to be able to fence simple, yet elegant loot (namely, crates of various flavours as a big commercial loot) instead of 3 sprayguns, 4 shotgun clips, 2 HE Grenades and 1 Battle Rifle.
It would reduce the clutter, micromanagment and instead add to flavour and atmosphere.

Illogical. It would actually add to the clutter, since you will have all these 'elegant' (yuck, I hate everything elegant) crates to sell PLUS 3 sprayguns, 4 shotgun clips, 2 HE Grenades and 1 Battle Rifle because the enemies have to be armed with SOMETHING, right? The thing that bothers me here is that cutting enemy ships to pieces still accounts for a major part of the loot. There will be more robbing opportunities added, but OTOH I can't make the weak enemies to go away precisely so you have grind material when you fall on bad times.  And regardless of loot, everyone will still be making tons of grog.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 13, 2016, 01:07:38 pm
So, do you acknowledge the whole grog-making as a problem or not ?
I can say for myself that 80 % of the time im having all my runts on x-grog, which doesnt seem alright to me.
Do you agree, or are you actually with that ?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 13, 2016, 03:26:46 pm
So, do you acknowledge the whole grog-making as a problem or not ?
I can say for myself that 80 % of the time im having all my runts on x-grog, which doesnt seem alright to me.
Do you agree, or are you actually with that ?

I wouldn't call it a problem, so much as a major part of the operation.  80-90% of the time the majority of your workers will probably be working to support your operation whether its grog or other profitable ventures.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 13, 2016, 04:41:26 pm
What else option there is? Disallow manufacturing for profit altogether? It would make the game much, much harder (and less interesting). So yeah grog is here to stay. As for the % of your runt time spent on for-profit manufacturing? It depends heavily on how many runts you have, how much combat equipment you are  producing, and how bad your financial outlook is. We can discuss these three, if they're properly balanced or not (eg. are items being manufactured too fast? is there enough need to manufacture equipment? are the workshops too cheap? etc) but there's no helping it: it always pays off to build up your industry, and once the industry is strong enough, most of your manufacturing will always be for-profit manufacturing.

EDIT:
And yeah, I absolutely agree that the market should 'heat up' if you're selling too much, leading to a drop of the prices, but it would require new engine code (and not a simple one). Depends if anyone wants to code such a thing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 13, 2016, 07:29:31 pm
This is what im saying. You need money. You dont make money by attacking aircrafts, but by selling Grog.

Solution: Make attacks more profitable. Add sellable loot. Like....merchandise crates. Slightly decrease sell value of X-Grogs. That way there is an incentive to attack a bit more and manufacture grog a bit less. Fixed.

Long-term prospect: Try to get a slightly flexible market into the game, were sales over time influence prices.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: greattuna on April 13, 2016, 07:34:01 pm
You dont make money by attacking aircrafts

Do you just keep every single hostage, ship engine, slave AI, plastasteel and hellerium? Do you keep every single weapon and clip, every grenade, every reticulan fusion reactor and metal ore? They're all sellable, sellable well, and give money, just like x-grog. And I get more money from attacks, because workshops are busy making ammo, weapons, armor and ships, and can't make money-selling stuff.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sabrecat on April 13, 2016, 07:52:18 pm
No kidding. I haven't made it super far into the game myself, but in my experience thus far, grog manufacturing is good for covering maintenance and day-to-day expenses, but a successful shipping raid provides a surge in funds sufficient to expand bases, hire Brainers, etc.

I'm sure the calculus does change later in the game as manufacturing operations get more elaborate, but you know, that makes sense to me. If you've dumped years and millions into infrastructure, it really would get to be tempting to leave the pirate life behind in favor of your less risky but still profitable ventures. "Cap'n... ye might make me walk th' plank for this, but: we're makin' money hand over fist distillin' rum, and ain't lost a single hand or runt doin' it! Ye think maybe we could... settle down, like?"
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: GarlandSP on April 13, 2016, 09:45:05 pm
I havent had problems with income, a nice tactic is to send the troop carrier to chase the flying target but not intercepting it, as soon as it lands it will prompt for a ground assault.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sabrecat on April 13, 2016, 10:35:29 pm
I havent had problems with income, a nice tactic is to send the troop carrier to chase the flying target but not intercepting it, as soon as it lands it will prompt for a ground assault.
Good point. If the OP is shooting things down, that could account for the seemingly weak return on attacking shipping.

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Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: GarlandSP on April 13, 2016, 10:54:59 pm
Good point. If the OP is shooting things down, that could account for the seemingly weak return on attacking shipping.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk



The diference is significant, as you will be able to capture engines, hellerium-115 and craft weapons that pays well in the market.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 13, 2016, 10:56:12 pm
Better too much info than not enough info. Also indeed, if you fall into the I-must-control-everything trap, it can get really tedious. Chill out, sit back, and enjoy the journey instead of being obsessed with optimization and finishing the game. Making that 1000 points a month to keep positive score is really easy.
snip...
I agree too much info better then too little, but the density makes finding the info you after a progressively slower progress as the game goes on.   
I was referring not so much to control as to the fairly frequent need to empty out the stores post mission and moving things around to produce what you want. The uber do everything base doesn't exist in Piratez. Some amount of fiddly shuffling will occur.   
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yglorba on April 13, 2016, 11:58:03 pm
EDIT:
And yeah, I absolutely agree that the market should 'heat up' if you're selling too much, leading to a drop of the prices, but it would require new engine code (and not a simple one). Depends if anyone wants to code such a thing.
I don't actually think that would improve the game.

Here's the problem:  It would effectively mean that in order to make decent income from manufacturing, you'd have to constantly micromanage it by changing it to whatever is profitable at the moment.  It doesn't strike me as an "interesting" decision (because the correct choice is always just to sell whatever makes the most profit), it'd just be annoying busywork.  It'd effectively push the game even further into being Grog Sales Simulator, because now the player would have to spend significant amounts of time managing their sales empire...  which isn't really good for a pirate mod.  Basically, the grog situation is thematically odd but isn't a huge deal from a gameplay perspective, whereas implementing a detailed economy would cause non-pirate-y stuff to intrude into gameplay more often in a way that isn't very fun.

I'd just leave it as it is.  My experience is that a single raid on a landed frighter can get you on the order of $1.5 million, even before you consider selling hostages.

However...  while this is an engine improvement and not an X-Pirates improvement, it might be useful to have the option to sell things from the loot screen.  That would make it easier to say "I don't want these things that I just looted" and right-click to sell all the ones you just got, rather than having to go through your entire inventory back at the base to pick them out.  (And if you want to eg. keep enough guns for your gals but don't need any additional ones, it's a pain to constantly sell the excess -- whereas if you could sell them from the loot screen, it'd be easy, because you could just right-click the up arrow next to the guns you looted to sell all of them while keeping the ones you already have.)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 14, 2016, 12:01:43 am
I don't actually think that would improve the game.

Here's the problem:  It would effectively mean that in order to make decent income from manufacturing, you'd have to constantly micromanage it by changing it to whatever is profitable at the moment.  It doesn't strike me as an "interesting" decision (because the correct choice is always just to sell whatever makes the most profit), it'd just be annoying busywork. 
<snip>

I fully concur!  ^^

However...  while this is an engine improvement and not an X-Pirates improvement, it might be useful to have the option to sell things from the loot screen.  That would make it easier to say "I don't want these things that I just looted" and right-click to sell all the ones you just got, rather than having to go through your entire inventory back at the base to pick them out.  (And if you want to eg. keep enough guns for your gals but don't need any additional ones, it's a pain to constantly sell the excess -- whereas if you could sell them from the loot screen, it'd be easy, because you could just right-click the up arrow next to the guns you looted to sell all of them while keeping the ones you already have.)

 :o *Mind-Blown*  I love this!  Meridian??? is this possible?? That would be terrific!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 14, 2016, 12:09:11 am
+1 to selling from loot screen!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on April 14, 2016, 01:09:11 am
What if you sell too much and you get retaliation mission? :>
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sambojin on April 14, 2016, 05:24:14 am
I don't see a huge difference. Everything on the Bonny isn't on the Blackmarket screen, thus you're not using it if it's sellable.

You get notified when you can't restore Bonny socks straight after a mission.

Is it just another BM screen you're asking for, with less stuff that you probably should have already sold on it?

Fair enough, you want some base stocks, but this isn't a huge difference.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bloax on April 14, 2016, 12:23:43 pm
It would be pretty big, actually.

So yes, do want on the lootsellscreen.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sabrecat on April 14, 2016, 07:44:49 pm
I think sambojin was replying to the comment about base reserves for defenses?

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Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on April 14, 2016, 08:23:04 pm
:o *Mind-Blown*  I love this!  Meridian??? is this possible?? That would be terrific!

I like it the way it is.... simple and easy to understand.
But since you ask so nicely, I will probably add a button to switch into "sell mode" or something like that. We'll see...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 15, 2016, 02:47:06 am
Yeah I haven't thought this through. Better to leave the economy alone. Also in all reason, the operation is too small to affect global prices in any way.
But a sell counter could be useful in itself. Some items would have them. With sell counter, you could add new researches, enemy missions or maybe simply some sort of one-time prizes or penalties after some set threshold is met... wouldn't that be cool... (and if someone wants, this could be further used as a base for price manipulation in other mods).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 15, 2016, 04:41:41 am
Have a bunch of mercs playing TBI (Terran Bureau of Investigation) after the traders complain of too many fake credit chips on the market? Launch a special retal (with landings as they investigate) in every region as they sweep the globe to try to find the source.

That'd be a cool tradeoff for the mass economy: Become too big, you might get busted, stay small, you might never finish and get crushed without notice under the feet of the big factions. Now you try to remain somewhere in the middle.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Loengrinn on April 16, 2016, 11:07:51 am
So here's my take on all of this talk:

Does it thematically fit that you produce metric shittons of grog to sell on market to fund your crew and operations?  Probably not.

Does it work well as a game mechanic?  Hell, YES.

While there's a lot of things that have changed from vanilla to this mod, almost all of which is super in depth and wonderful, when the game requires you to manage certain resources to keep playing, making that more complicated may not be the better solution.  Even if it breaks the immersion a little.  So while producing X-grog to offset your maintenance costs is a little not-so-pirate-y, it makes sense from a purely gameplay perspective.  If you have an alternative that doesn't bog you down in TONS of micromanagement, that might elicit a better response and I'd be all ears myself.  But in game with SO much to do already, making something that works as it should more complicated for little to no reason is probably not constructive.

That being said, I agree about making looting ships would make it feel more thematically fitting.  BUT, I also understand Dixione's argument about adding purely "sell only" items is actually just going to clutter things up more.  While it would be more fitting of the feel of the mod, it isn't entirely necessary.  Would it be cool and fun and give incentive to attack that large cruiser that could be carrying tons of cargo but has units up the wazoo?  Sure.  But does it unbalance things?  That's debatable, and I'm probably going to end up siding with the dev on this one, regardless of what I'd "like to see".

Lastly, and this is kind of not important since it's been stated that coding the market thing would be hard and I can't see too many people willingly taking on that headache, but I'm really against that idea.  Unless you'd like to throw in different items to manufacture that take no materials, you're just shooting yourself in the foot.  This comes back to the realism/game balance argument above.  It makes much more "sense", but needlessly drags you down into managing things that don't add any major value to the game.

Just my 2 cents.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 16, 2016, 01:07:10 pm
Attacking a cruiser still brings you a fortune. After selling all these engines, plastasteel, Hellerium, and plasma guns, you're several millions richer.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 16, 2016, 01:41:10 pm
So here's my take on all of this talk
(...)
Just my 2 cents.

Posts that consist solely of "you are right man" are spammy and I don't make them.
This one's an exception though. Because you are right, man. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 16, 2016, 04:17:09 pm
Posts that consist solely of "you are right man" are spammy and I don't make them.
This one's an exception though. Because you are right, man. :)

I'll spam here too to add my concurrence! :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on April 16, 2016, 06:13:19 pm
But a sell counter could be useful in itself. Some items would have them. With sell counter, you could add new researches, enemy missions or maybe simply some sort of one-time prizes or penalties after some set threshold is met... wouldn't that be cool... (and if someone wants, this could be further used as a base for price manipulation in other mods).

A sell counter would be also nice for hiring unique special units. Let's say you may hire only one supermutant with special stats/powers and if it dies it is gone forever.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 16, 2016, 08:26:09 pm
Yeah, right now the only way to add an unique item would be through a single-run special mission. But you can't get soldiers like this... Or engineers, or scientists... wink, wink :)
A flag to the effect of "buy only once" would be helpful with this, yeah. Could also be used to have 'buy and research this item' functionality, where the only way (or alternate way) to get tech is through buying.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 16, 2016, 09:03:26 pm
Oooooh buying tech items that's a neat idea.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 17, 2016, 12:00:26 am
I think it could be interesting for some "once a month/every X month" items which allow a research breakthrough, so you can get out of a research choke-point if the RNG is just not spawning the right factions. Something like "Academy Tech hacking", "Trader Tech hacking", etc. which contains all valuable (dependency wise) research topic and, once researched, gets you one of them (might not be the one you want, but should always be something useful). Just have to make it expensive enough and long enough to research that the proper way is better if you can find the target. It could even work as a repeatable research project like Solarius was talking about.

Similarly, getting a max # of brainerz a month would slow down the quick race to 15 brainerz and put a cap on maximum research possible. Same for runts (cap on max production = cap on max booze) and gals (oh the dreadful month where you squad wipe and already bought all your replacements!).

Or make the cap softer by increasing price instead of setting a max number. Something like 1st item a month is cheaper (you got the nearest available one), subsequent ones are increasingly expensive (you have to look further/compete more with others who are also looking). Same for selling stuff. The more you sell, the less it's worth, with a reset every once in a while. Or even further, a currentPrice = defaultPrice * (1-X) + yesterdayPrice * X + #(boughtToday - soldToday)*priceChange, where X < 1. So price changes as you buy/sell and slowly sinks back over time to the default. But that's a lot more variables to track in a save...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 17, 2016, 01:22:55 am
I would say something on the order of once every 6 months to a year would be a good interval. Or maybe a few smallish "defector" type missions. Some guy would rather get a quick payout from a pirate gang then slave the rest of his life in middle management. Would be something like an envoy size ship with a high proportion of marsec BGs or equivalent and the "defector" who is unarmed and comes from the list of "interrogation targets". Or maybe its a prisoner transport ship
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on April 17, 2016, 02:23:45 am
I would say something on the order of once every 6 months to a year would be a good interval. Or maybe a few smallish "defector" type missions. Some guy would rather get a quick payout from a pirate gang then slave the rest of his life in middle management. Would be something like an envoy size ship with a high proportion of marsec BGs or equivalent and the "defector" who is unarmed and comes from the list of "interrogation targets". Or maybe its a prisoner transport ship

Sir, I must say your ideas are straight from the 80's bad sci-fi movies! My favourite!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: sambojin on April 17, 2016, 02:50:06 am
"Oh, so you're selling out your people and the technology they have for a bit of cash?"

"Yes. I also heard you've got a woman with 3 boobs......"


One-off "faction" items and missions might be cool. Even if it's a standard mission where you have to kill/capture everyone (with that faction item being assured in loot), it would represent someone setting up their own side, but you still doing the dirty work.

The item is more-or-less like a gun almanac, just more specific, with a bit of work to do to get the second (and useful) part of it.

There's lots of stuff that could be done with this idea.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yglorba on April 17, 2016, 03:09:40 am
I don't see a huge difference. Everything on the Bonny isn't on the Blackmarket screen, thus you're not using it if it's sellable.
Belatedly:

This is unfortunately not true.  When the screen comes up after a mission due to lack of space, for some reason everything on the Bonny is shown as available to be sold.  Not only that, items your gals are actually equipped with will be included.  (I found this out the hard way when I accidentally sold the Cattle Prods I was using.)

I assume this is because when a ship is out, it's no longer considered valid storage space, and somehow everything in it is dumped into your base?  Or maybe it's a quirk of the fire-sale-due-to-space screen.  In any case the effect is the same; when you're low on space, it's very easy to accidentally sell items you are actually using.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 17, 2016, 03:22:34 am
If it didn't work like that you could easily hang/cheat the game by 'hiding' everything in a ship.

I would say something on the order of once every 6 months to a year would be a good interval. Or maybe a few smallish "defector" type missions. Some guy would rather get a quick payout from a pirate gang then slave the rest of his life in middle management. Would be something like an envoy size ship with a high proportion of marsec BGs or equivalent and the "defector" who is unarmed and comes from the list of "interrogation targets". Or maybe its a prisoner transport ship

:/ A mission to this effect is already in-game for a quite some time
(although the 'defector' is fully armed, he travels only with a small escort). Problem: he never lands and has a very fast ship.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 17, 2016, 04:23:21 am
if we are speaking about a certain 6000 top speed craft and mission yes it does exist in a technical state but that interception profile is....... Nigh impossible, given scan cycles are 30 mins. Ships at such speed can go across a hyperwave area without detection. And unless it drops to less then half speed interception is impossible until near end fighter tech. even then needs to drop speed a reasonable fraction to allow an intercept. And hope the intercept doesn't vaporize it cause its damn frail compared to your normal target profile. Lesson learned me :P. A balance factor that is just as hard as the normal route(or harder YMMV) is not a balance factor. It is only another path.

I'm quite happy the path exists don't get me wrong. Doesn't sufficiently alleviate the issue of rng blockage though. A full run of this mod is a significant time investment on the player's part. How long is meridian's LP in published time and off camera? If what we the players acceptis a long haul game makes itself longer through without player input it feels pretty bad. My current run had a 2-2.5 game year period of me merely not losing, with no really tempting bait on the hook to keep my interest. Just cutter/sentry/escort/etc run  I stuck it out on stubbornness, out of game knowledge, and what the mod had shown me so far. I'm the type of player that hammers at a problem till it gives. The type that keeps trying things that everyone else says give up on. The kind that games like Dark Souls are the target audience for. IS this the kind of player you want to be the majority of your community?

Dioxine, you even said to restart to me at one point. You at the time agreed that i had been given the shaft and changed that particular piece of the mod. Different precise circumstances, same general problem. Consider carefully what your design goal is.

Either way this mod is a spectacular piece of work and has my adoration and support.

EDIT: WELL FUCK ME AND CALL ME SHIRLEY. new version posted while im writing this wall o text speech. Ignore me and im gona shut up now. Still great work.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Eddie on April 17, 2016, 11:04:41 pm
While we are talking about economy, could we make hellerium loot a bit more scarce? I mean we have a mileage info for all craft, but I never thought about it much because I have so much hellerium that I actually need to sell it. It can be bought and it can be "manufactured", so less hellerium loot won't end the game.

When I think about what items I need to conserve, craft missiles is one example. I think hellerium should be there too so that mileage is actually something I will think about.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 17, 2016, 11:40:02 pm
Mid game you are right eddie Missiles trump Hellirum. However when you start using it for fuel, craft ammo, Armor, grenades, weapon ammo, and some weapons the need adds up. Add in that late game some the needful craft have shit mileage and you need multiple flying against an increasing rate of targets. The mod has a natural curve in usage of material. The early game is a scramble to get something/anything better then what you have. Mid game is the econ stage you can make efficient stuff yourself and save up to invest in real production and all the other things. Late game you go back to spending economy just with different priorities and a huge budget.     
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 18, 2016, 03:03:39 am
Exactly. Also. Each Hellerium burnt = $12k net loss (sale price). Think about it. As for the mileage - I don't see why it should be uber-punishing.
Also story-wise, Earth is overflowing with Hellerium. Not only the planet got massive influxes of the mineral from the Star Gods (to make earthlings hellerium-dependant), but also the stellar neighbourhood is devoid of life and rich in Hellerium deposits. The Hellerium gold rush is starting. The times are comparatively good, only that makes any revolution even possible.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Loengrinn on April 18, 2016, 11:18:13 am
I for one feel like the game is well-balanced.  The only problem I have is research being gated with semi-unclear requirements as to what unlocks the next set.  Obviously, working with an old game there are certain limitations to what hints you can give, or make apparent.  And this is not even a complaint, exactly, it's a minor frustration that is greatly overshadowed by the rest of the genius work this mod is.

Improving on this mod is probably going to be difficult.  I only play on difficulty 1 and savescum because I'm not terribly good at this game, and RNGesus seriously hates me SO much.  I would like to thank all of you guys that are involved in this project and that have contributed.  As something that originally just caught my interest and made think I'd spend a few hours messing around with it, this game has consumed almost all of my playtime for the last 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yglorba on April 18, 2016, 03:44:34 pm
I recommend you play on at least difficulty 2.  The lowest difficulty, in X-Com, halves the armor of all enemies, which dramatically changes gameplay and defeats the purpose of many enemies, weapons, tactics, etc.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on April 24, 2016, 02:43:21 pm
:o *Mind-Blown*  I love this!  Meridian??? is this possible?? That would be terrific!

Done.
SELL button will be visible on the LOOT screen,
You'll get the standard SELL screen, but only with items from the LOOT screen.
Storage limits are not enforced at that point.
Once you do a deal, you can't go to SELL screen again. If you cancel, you can still return.
To select all items (resp. all items of a certain category), press X (or whatever hotkey you have for "clear inventory").
Screenshots attached.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 24, 2016, 05:57:43 pm
Awesome! Now we can get rid of new stuff without having to try to find it amongst all the old stuff! That's great!

Looking forward to the update on gitHub to recompile with that and the bug fix for the advanced scanner..!

That's going to make life so much easier!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Hazard on April 24, 2016, 06:49:56 pm
This is more of general OpenXcom suggestion, and maybe it's been talked about before, but I'd really like to see shortcuts for aimed, snap and auto shots.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 24, 2016, 07:32:18 pm
Yay, Key shortcuts would be a huge QoL improvment
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: superschokokeks on April 25, 2016, 01:51:51 am
@Loengrinn Watch Meridian let's play and you'll learn some tricks (And he has his viewers as avatar-gals :D)

I suggest playing on 2, too and stop save scumming. Save scumming prevents you to learn and you make the same mistakes again and again.
The real fun lies in encounter new enemies and figure out how to beat them. Difficulty 1 and save scumming prevent this too

At the end a game should make fun, so play like you want and have the most fun out of it
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Loengrinn on April 25, 2016, 07:14:15 am
For the most part, the reason I play the way I do is to see how things work.  At this point it's mostly to learn about the tech tree and the requirements to get past certain points in it.  It's the only limiting factor I still have at this point.  Once I'm more familiar with what it takes to get certain technologies, I plan on going back and playing at a higher difficulty without cheesing, but right now it's simply to avoid frustration while learning key things.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on April 25, 2016, 11:06:03 am
Yay, Key shortcuts would be a huge QoL improvment

Can you add more details on how should it work exactly?

- Is the shortcut for "Aim" always the same (e.g. "A")... or is it variable (e.g. "1", if it is the first item in the list)?
- Do you first need to open the weapon action menu ("Q" and "E" already)... or do you want separate direct hotkeys for "left hand weapon aimed shot" and "right hand weapon aimed shot"?
- Should it work also for other actions than aim, snap and auto? E.g. hit (melee), prime, throw, execute, launch, use (medikit/mind probe), panic and mind control? If yes, what should be the hotkeys?
- Do you want hotkeys configurable?
- Which hotkey defaults do you recommend?

- Are you people even using hotkeys in battlescape? Because I'm not...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on April 25, 2016, 11:29:19 am
I rarely use the hotkeys that already exist but i can see the use of direct shortcuts to common actions.

I would prefer actions tied to fixed keys. A for aimed. S for snap. T for throw. or whatever keys seem most useful. Rebind would be a nice feature but shortcuts first.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 25, 2016, 03:29:47 pm
I'm the opposite:

First open the action menu for the item using q or e.
Then press 1 2 3 etc. to select the 1st 2nd 3rd etc. item from the menu, counting from the top.

Things appear in a specific order already, and conviniently the number keys are all close to q and e.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on April 25, 2016, 04:31:54 pm
Can you add more details on how should it work exactly?

- Is the shortcut for "Aim" always the same (e.g. "A")... or is it variable (e.g. "1", if it is the first item in the list)?
- Do you first need to open the weapon action menu ("Q" and "E" already)... or do you want separate direct hotkeys for "left hand weapon aimed shot" and "right hand weapon aimed shot"?
- Should it work also for other actions than aim, snap and auto? E.g. hit (melee), prime, throw, execute, launch, use (medikit/mind probe), panic and mind control? If yes, what should be the hotkeys?
- Do you want hotkeys configurable?
- Which hotkey defaults do you recommend?

- Are you people even using hotkeys in battlescape? Because I'm not...

I dont use hotkeys, but i definitly would if i could instantly get the aiming Icon to Show up upon hitting a key.
Something like 1/2/3 for aimed/snap/Auto would be interesting, maybe for left Hand and 9/8/7 for right Hand weapons.
Having them being customizeable via a menu would be even better.

Another example could be Q and E to select left or right Hand, and then 1/2/3 to immediatly Switch to targeting mode. I would definitly use it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 25, 2016, 04:55:20 pm
You'd rather need 1...5 for left hand, 6...0 for right hand (up to 5 action modes are possible at the same time, including throw). 1,2,3 could be fire modes/item uses, 4- melee attack, 5 - throw (repeated for 6...0). Two-step idea I don't like, although 1...10 should work even if the tab has been opened already. The most useful key so far is 'r' for reload IMO :)

And custom key bindings are IMO very important. At least that allows to check IF there is any hotkey for an action present; secret hotkeys are not fun at all.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 25, 2016, 05:12:16 pm
Let's make a short table, actually. 4 will always be melee, 5-throw.

Item..........................1................2...............3
t.1 (gun).............Aimed...........Snap..........Auto
t.2 (ammo)...........Load...............???............???
t.3 (melee)..............???..............???............???
t.4/5 (nades)........Prime..............???.....Unprime
t.6 (med)......Quick Heal...Quick Stim.....Quick PK
t.7/8 (scan, probe)...Use..............???............???
t.9 (psi)................Panic..............MC............???
t.10 (flare)..............???..............???............???
t.11 (corpse)...........???..............???............???
empty hand.........punch.............kick.........bite:)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Hazard on April 25, 2016, 05:39:59 pm
Personally, I'd prefer shortcuts that instantly bring up the targeting cursor. I'm pretty sure shooting is the most common activity right after moving, so the faster it is, the smoother the gameplay. The keys should also absolutely be configurable. For example, I always change camera controls to WASD because the arrow keys are much further away from the other common shortcuts.

IMHO, Jagged Alliance 2 does targeting very well: moving the cursor on an enemy brings up the targeting reticle, and you can then spend more APs to aim longer/better. So in OpenXcom, a button to cycle through the fire modes. That's probably a lot more complicated to implement, though.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 25, 2016, 05:50:17 pm
I'd prefer shortcuts that instantly bring up the targeting cursor.
<snip>
So in OpenXcom, a button to cycle through the fire modes. That's probably a lot more complicated to implement, though.

Yeah, a "targeting" key would be great.  Hit it once and it starts with a targeting reticle of first available action.  "Aimed" gets displayed above or below the reticle. Hit it again, and it cycles through to "Snap", "Auto," etc. 

Just use the Q and E keys which already open the dialogue.  Maybe Control Q for target with Right hand, Control E for Target with Left, etc.

All of these would be enabled with an Option in Battlescape: "Advanced Targeting Keys" or some such.

And yes, I do use keyboard shortcuts with my Left hand, and mouse with the right.  I use "C" for center on selected unit. The numbers to flip through visible enemies, Q and E for hand item menus, Tab to cycle units, W to finish with the unit till next turn. :)

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on April 25, 2016, 07:41:13 pm
Let's make a short table, actually. 4 will always be melee, 5-throw.

Item..........................1................2...............3
t.1 (gun).............Aimed...........Snap..........Auto
t.2 (ammo)...........Load...............???............???
t.3 (melee)..............???..............???............???
t.4/5 (nades)........Prime..............???.....Unprime
t.6 (med)......Quick Heal...Quick Stim.....Quick PK
t.7/8 (scan, probe)...Use..............???............???
t.9 (psi)................Panic..............MC............???
t.10 (flare)..............???..............???............???
t.11 (corpse)...........???..............???............???
empty hand.........punch.............kick.........bite:)
psi have 3 attacks (add "use" too). Flare can have prime/unprime (btw its glow if primed, dark if not).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 26, 2016, 12:36:58 pm
I have an idea for a new reward/medal like item for the user (skipper) to give to better gals. Just add a tiny 1x1 medal object that acts like a stun/smoke/whatever/grenade (with a small damage value of e.g. 5) that the unit can carry primed and give it a negative damage tohealth maybe with a factor of 3.0 (giving 15 health to the unit). Now if the valuable unit with the medal gets hit, the medal goes off and (if it isn't killed right away) and saves the unit or at least gives the captain time enough to send a medic to treat the fatal wounds.

The medals themselves (they don't actually have to be "medals", i just call them that way atm) should not be manufactured easily or maybe not at all, maybe just give the skipper a fixed amount of e.g. 10 at the start of the game. Or make them an advanced research. Whatever you do, do not make them spammable.

I made something like that for my personal XPiratez mod and I called the devices "Little Helper", they work fine and are not overpowered IF restricted carefully.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 26, 2016, 04:00:42 pm
I have an idea for a new reward/medal like item for the user (skipper) to give to better gals. Just add a tiny 1x1 medal object that acts like a stun/smoke/whatever/grenade (with a small damage value of e.g. 5) that the unit can carry primed and give it a negative damage tohealth maybe with a factor of 3.0 (giving 15 health to the unit). Now if the valuable unit with the medal gets hit, the medal goes off and (if it isn't killed right away) and saves the unit or at least gives the captain time enough to send a medic to treat the fatal wounds.

The medals themselves (they don't actually have to be "medals", i just call them that way atm) should not be manufactured easily or maybe not at all, maybe just give the skipper a fixed amount of e.g. 10 at the start of the game. Or make them an advanced research. Whatever you do, do not make them spammable.

I made something like that for my personal XPiratez mod and I called the devices "Little Helper", they work fine and are not overpowered IF restricted carefully.

Interesting.  You could tie them to "Stasis Pods" which would limit their availability, and call them Stasis Fields.  They would put the unconscious unit in "Stasis" from a lore perspective to slow the time it takes for them to die. 

Alternatively, they could "Heal" X number of wounds, say 5, but not give any health back. That would be enough to stop gals bleeding almost entirely, as most hits that drop them are around 3 wounds.  I've only seen over 5 once iirc.  A gal dropped in this manner might slowly come back to her senses on her own, or be stimmed up, but she would have a 90%+ chance of survival.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 26, 2016, 04:32:17 pm
That's a really cool idea! I don't have issues with gals bleeding out (mostly getting injured all the time...) but the mechanic is neat, and Ivan's stasis field explanation to slow time when close to death is rather cool and techy too. I think stasis pods aren't that common either? You don't even need a new inventory slot, a "stasis field generator" could fit anywhere in the inventory.

I'm not keen on the removal of fatal wounds though, since yes, it would prevent gals from dying, but also remove opportunities to heal them and reduce recovery time. Recovery times can already be ridiculously high, removing the one way we have to minimize them (by healing as many hp per wounds as possible) would be unfortunate. By opposition, healing 15 health is neat because it does help with that problem, but also helps the gal survive until help can arrive.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 26, 2016, 04:32:44 pm
I am not sure if a grenade like item can heal wounds, they can restore hp, that I know. Here the setup I am using atm:

Code: [Select]
  - type: STR_EMERGENCY
    size: 0.1
    costSell: 3000
    weight: 1
    bigSprite: 77798
    floorSprite: 77799
    power: 5
    damageType: 6
    battleType: 4
    blastRadius: 1
    hitAnimation: 0
    tuThrow: 20
    tuPrime: 20
    damageAlter:
      RandomType: 3
      ArmorEffectiveness: 0.0
      ToHealth: -1.0
    listOrder: 4355

And yes, the stasis field is a great idea!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 26, 2016, 04:38:02 pm
@new_civilian:  Do you ever run into the situation where, your "Health Bomb" actually revives a gal?  if so, does she jump back on her feet immediately, with no TUs and empty inventory just as if you'd healed her with a medikit?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 26, 2016, 04:44:56 pm
@new_civilian:  Do you ever run into the situation where, your "Health Bomb" actually revives a gal?  if so, does she jump back on her feet immediately, with no TUs and empty inventory just as if you'd healed her with a medikit?

Not that I remember, but then again the situation does not appear too often. I remember a downed gal getting up in the next turn, but that is not what you asked for I guess.  :-\
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 26, 2016, 05:07:24 pm
Not that I remember, but then again the situation does not appear too often. I remember a downed gal getting up in the next turn, but that is not what you asked for I guess.  :-\

No, that probably answers it.  The bomb goes off at the end of the turn, but the game doesn't check consciousness status until the beginning of the next turn to see if stun has worn off enough for them to revive. 

Do you recall if she had full TUs or not?  I'd guess she had empty inventory.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bloax on April 26, 2016, 05:34:05 pm
ever considered something as simple as making it add stun too
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 26, 2016, 05:42:35 pm
I like this stasis bomb idea.

I think it will be manufacturable from Stasis Pods... which brings the question to players: do stasis pods appear as loot? I don't remember since they're a tile type AFAIK.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on April 26, 2016, 06:13:13 pm
Yeah, they appear as loot.  In my game I have 3 in stores at year May, 2602. 
That feels fairly good for rarity.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 26, 2016, 06:18:39 pm
I'll make it 10 items per pod then or something. Eventually you can produce Stasis Pods but end-game spam is not an issue really :) Oh yeah! I absolutely need a handob too, since this is a grenade-type item. Hmm, I could use Robin's Apoc medkit handob...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on April 26, 2016, 09:51:09 pm
So, I added hotkeys... based on Dioxine's and Yankes' suggestions... because they were the most complete.

Also, I changed the position of "Hit/Swing" for firearms on the GUI:
- before: hit, aim, snap, auto, throw
- now: aim, snap, auto, hit, throw
That was bothering me for a long time... and it also is more consistent with the hotkeys.

(https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=4520.0;attach=21703;image)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: The Think Tank on April 27, 2016, 05:18:57 am
This seems awesome, cannot wait for Stasis Fields!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 27, 2016, 08:57:39 am
Just wow!  8)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Hazard on April 30, 2016, 01:38:11 am
I've been wondering if it would be beneficial to have a max throw range setting, mostly for grenades, that's not dependent on strength. It feels more than a little weird when they fly all across a map with open terrain and land exactly where I aimed at when using a strong gal. I've no idea how difficult implementing such a setting would be, though...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on April 30, 2016, 02:11:54 am
@Meridian BA_USE for BT_PSIAMP is attack that use gun damage functionality.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 30, 2016, 12:03:58 pm
I've been wondering if it would be beneficial to have a max throw range setting, mostly for grenades, that's not dependent on strength. It feels more than a little weird when they fly all across a map with open terrain and land exactly where I aimed at when using a strong gal. I've no idea how difficult implementing such a setting would be, though...

Acctually the solution is dead-simple: Make grenades heavier. I did just that in my personal mod and it indeed feels more realistic and gives grenade launcher weapons a nice niche (sp?) And the changes do not have to be big, e.g. make the alien grenade weight 5.
However a fixed maximum grenade range setting feels "gamey", it would take away the need for good strength/throwing skills.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Hazard on April 30, 2016, 02:12:08 pm
Is that enough to reduce the throw range of an 80 strength gal? I haven't done any comparisons, but I have a feeling it's near the max strength value where this becomes a problem in the first place.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 30, 2016, 02:53:55 pm
Range depends on the ratio of strength of the gal to weight of the projectile (try throwing a gun, or a body). Increasing weight does reduce range.

I'm not keen on increasing weights though, as that reduce equipment a gal can carry on top of reducing range. I'd be more in favor of a "throwRange" setting after which accuracy goes down like we have for guns.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 30, 2016, 03:05:49 pm
Meh. Grenades aren't OP unless you overuse pre-priming (and are super OP with 'instant grenades'). They do get very powerful as you max out your stats, true, that's why Throwing skill was reduced across the board.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Hazard on April 30, 2016, 03:40:38 pm
Lobbing an alien grenade 45 tiles is still pretty impressive, even if it isn't always spot on. :P
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: yrizoud on April 30, 2016, 04:12:18 pm
Real-life baseball players have an impressively strong and accurate throw, so long accurate throws don't surprise me (Especially since a specialized thrower will not improve aiming at the same time). In X-Piratez, it takes a lot of time and training to reach the caps 90% throwing and 80 strength.

Maaaybe 80 is a bit too much. 10 more than vanilla 70 means just +3 tile distance (with light objects of weight 3), but at extreme distance, it means a very big extra "surface" is in range.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 30, 2016, 04:12:29 pm
Here some more weapon ideas i had.

1. An gyro-stabilized upgrade of the Harpoon gun. Don't change the ammo, don't change the clipsize, but make that *#+&% thing finally hit something.
2. A radiation grenade with small radius, maybe proxy, Used for clearing rooms BEFORE you enter them. They ideally would do no item damage. Open the door, lob them in, close door, wait.  Boom, enter, smile.  :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 30, 2016, 04:44:26 pm
1 - Harpoon gun has an aimed shot accuracy of 110%, with a good shooter and kneeling, it's not that hard to get even 100% accuracy on short range. Hitting at 20 tiles is perfectly doable. That being said, especially if we do see underwater missions eventually, a new harpoon gun (with fast-firing capabilities?) could be interesting.

2 - Isn't that what stun and incendiary grenades are for? Neither damage stuff, stun for low armors, incendiary for medium ones. Maybe a "ghost grenade" that ignores armor/items and does straight up hp damage would be cool once you research deep enough in voodoo/demons.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 30, 2016, 05:02:41 pm
1. Really? I have to recheck the accuracy then, maybe I am simply using it with the wrong gals then....

2. Stun is too weak, flashbang has too little range, willie pete does item damage. I will try molotovs but I was thinking about something bigger, maybe I will try firebombs  ;D I have to check if they do itemdamage, though.

The ghost grenade idea the way you describe it sounds interesting.... 8)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 30, 2016, 05:27:31 pm
The harpoon gun does have a aimRange of 15, which means you'll lose accuracy early, and it drops quickly too. It is very much a short range weapon but I guess that was the intent. I give it to my close range support gals as its sometimes convenient to stun remotely (ex.: church people who have good dodge).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 30, 2016, 05:54:51 pm
Thanks for the tips, Arthanor. And yes, stun weapons needs to be balanced, no two ways about that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 30, 2016, 06:49:40 pm
Firebomb is meant for exactly that purpose you mentioned. Does it look too hardcore? Sorry ^_^

As for better ranged stun, maybe there is room for some additions. But certainly not something as boring as 'dart rifle +'. Or at least not only :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on April 30, 2016, 07:27:10 pm
Yeah maybe not only... but what about such a spin: a Harpoon Cannon! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/RxUWPA6.gif)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 30, 2016, 07:32:01 pm
To fire a bigger harpoon? Maybe there can be some X-Whalerz ;)

I was thinking of something more hi tech like this: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Needle_Pistol
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on April 30, 2016, 11:03:59 pm
Actually, you know what would be cool? If it fired a net on the target. Something short ranged still, but which applies medium amounts of stun that ignores (a percent of) armor since you can get entangled regardless of what you wear, it doesn't need to get through. And it drains some TUs and energy to represent the entanglement (you are busy getting the net off, so can't reaction fire, and it will restrict your movement next turn). So the benefits are some armor penetration and stat drains, instead of just MOAR stun.

I'd love to see a super short range version (2-3 tiles, throwing skill) that'd allow me to field Retiarius type gals (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retiarius). Maybe a 1x1 size weapon with one shot only? (once entangled, the enemy will rip it apart so it's unuseable anymore).

Another suggestion to improve the mod: Removing those obnoxious landing zones that cost 8 TUs per step despite the rest of the map being 4 TUs per step, and don't actually match the visuals? Those are super annoying (making unloading the bonny and approaching enemy crafts much slower = much more risky, for no reason I can see).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on April 30, 2016, 11:58:07 pm
Yeah maybe not only... but what about such a spin: a Harpoon Cannon! :)

(https://i.imgur.com/RxUWPA6.gif)

Me likey!  ;)  Maybe you can combine that Cannon with Arthanor's damage proposal. However PLEASE not another short range weapon, give us shooters something to do as well!

Not that there is a lack of guns in this mod... nope, really not. ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yglorba on May 01, 2016, 02:32:13 am
One thing that might help capture heavily-armored targets at range would be some sort of weapon that does very high armor damage + pain, but very little (or no) health damage.  Some sort of AOE chemical weapon to dissolve armor, perhaps.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 01, 2016, 03:15:27 am
Really hvy armor targets can usually withstand a few shots from normal weapons which can breakdown armor and do damage to make the subsequent stun weapons job much easier. Jusr remember to heal the wounds so the don't bleed out.

Though i wouldn't mind an aoe acid flask.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 01, 2016, 12:22:40 pm
I would like a Acid Flask that melts ALL armour vectors instead of only the facing that was hit. Also, a bit less RNG when it comes to the melt, 0 - 20 is really awkward to work with.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 01, 2016, 12:30:21 pm
I would like a Acid Flask that melts ALL armour vectors instead of only the facing that was hit. Also, a bit less RNG when it comes to the melt, 0 - 20 is really awkward to work with.

Lol, what about an "instant victory" button?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 01, 2016, 12:34:41 pm
yeah the range on flasks is the reason i dont use them. Heavy hits will do more to breakdown armor in 95% of situations. The notable exceptions are lobstermen, and cyclopes but neither is a particularly threatening foe so eh. Early game maybe a few when you just dont have the raw power and you can't cant bring hammers or chainsaws to bear.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 01, 2016, 01:27:38 pm
I would like a Acid Flask that melts ALL armour vectors instead of only the facing that was hit. Also, a bit less RNG when it comes to the melt, 0 - 20 is really awkward to work with.

And I would like a million dollars. 0-20 is awkward? Only if you throw a single one, which is always stupid. That's why you have large crew.
And yeah acid flasks are hardly useful once you have enough 60+ dmg weapons, THAT'S WHY THEY'RE AN EARLY TECH LOL :P
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 01, 2016, 09:54:50 pm
I find that 0-20 is just not competitive when compared to explosive options even early game vs 97% of targets since attacks damage armor=10% of damage dealt after armor and resists. 16 tile range limit hurts as well, if im in that close the hammer gals are often already committed. Early strength/slots are limited and even the lowly black-powder bombs and Molotov's feel more flexible.

That said excellent batch size so less runt hours used by a significant factor.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 01, 2016, 09:57:46 pm
Sure, one High Explosive is enough to kill even a Guildmaster with a little luck.

But to capture him, you'll need those flasks o'acid... early game.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 01, 2016, 10:11:21 pm
Yeah the flask of acid is meant mostly for capturing, not killing. Well it's not meant for anything to be frank. It's a tool. Like each tool, it's not the best where all you need is brute force. It's not a very good tool since it's an early-game tool. Might be more useful once heavy explosives cease to be so readily available in very early game (after all, while hammer can do the job, melee is risky or might be not someone's style altogether).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Ashert on May 02, 2016, 12:40:21 pm
Does anyone know the Xeno Operations Mod? https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2913.0.html
There's a lot of content for a new Luxurious merchant ships or for the Church Elite! I hope for a new class of ship in the future! ::)

Another thing is a little pointless in the mansion missions. I take only a single soldier, run up to the roof and finish the mission with 0 points, or is there any important invention? That's too easy!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 02, 2016, 01:17:27 pm
So what did you gain lol?

Also yeah, I am aware of Xeno Ops, I stole a ton of great stuff from that mod :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 02, 2016, 01:23:58 pm
 Zero point mission  :o just why..... waste of your time, waste of fuel, why go at all? You get the same score by never doing it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Ashert on May 02, 2016, 02:05:36 pm
Zero point mission  :o just why..... waste of your time, waste of fuel, why go at all? You get the same score by never doing it.

It seemed as if the Mansion Mission not disappear on the map. But they are also very difficult to play without arms at the beginning and there is no important reward. I wanted them remove only from the map.

I have a suggestion for improvement. Take the Xeno Ship: https://www.openxcom.com/content/modimages/YDULJPAO120520150424.png place it on the roof and make the price inside the ship a lot of money or something meaningful.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 02, 2016, 02:29:43 pm
I have a suggestion too, think before saying something stupid.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bartojan on May 02, 2016, 04:36:09 pm
I would appreciate Fire Extinguisher as a clubbing weapon. One more reason to bring it on board.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3312514/Foul-play-eyed-death-millionaires-83-year-old-wife.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2hItaxgq8o
(https://liftbigeatbig.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/owned-by-fire-extinguisher.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 02, 2016, 04:39:27 pm
Good idee. I will add the option, I was just too lazy to consider it before :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Eddie on May 04, 2016, 06:26:52 pm
Small suggestion: add soylent as a needed resource for producing slaves in the workshop. Reapers and boomosaurus have it, and slaves need to eat too.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 04, 2016, 07:51:01 pm
Small suggestion: add soylent as a needed resource for producing slaves in the workshop. Reapers and boomosaurus have it, and slaves need to eat too.

Normal slaves, of course.
I fear to think what culinary wonder a Taskmaster requires.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on May 04, 2016, 08:06:23 pm
A small thing that feels somewhat bad to me every time I see/read it: Could you please rename the Gas Chambers to Gas Traps or Gas Pits?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 04, 2016, 08:09:41 pm
Bwahahaha. Of course it is supposed to be a Name of Very Bad Taste :P

But in reality, not so much. If I was a freak, I'd name them something like Surprise Showers or something. Now that's something I have enough decency to avoid.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 04, 2016, 08:20:32 pm
I was quite puzzled by that one at first. "Is it a facility to turn captives into corpses? That's kinda..." But then I read the 'pedia and it's "just" traps. Would be fitting to have to interrogate some humanist to unlock it ;)

I, for one, welcome this. It's ok to feel bad once in a while about our history and this game. Let's be honest, we're spending our free time slaughtering people. We don't have the usual XCom excuse that they are aliens invading our planet. In Piratez, they're just "baddies" because they work for the "bad" corporations.

A little bit of unease isn't unwarranted. It's better, more honest, than all the TV shows and games that are trying to fool you into thinking it's good and heroic to take out "bad" people.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on May 04, 2016, 08:23:07 pm
Well, in german the word Gaskammer (gas chamber) was SOLELY used for the ones in concentration camps, that's why I don't like that name...

I do like the facility in XPiratez, even though (thanks to 2 hideout shrouds) my base has yet to be attacked....  :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 04, 2016, 08:25:41 pm
I was quite puzzled by that one at first. "Is it a facility to turn captives into corpses? That's kinda..." But then I read the 'pedia and it's "just" traps. Would be fitting to have to interrogate some humanist to unlock it ;)

Lol, maybe not :) It's not the Nazis who made that invention first, after all. Besides that, you're just saying what I think myself. At least in Piratez the gas chambers are used only to capture (...but still it's not 100% non-lethal).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 04, 2016, 08:37:58 pm
Was kidding for the dependency, obviously, hence the smiley! The Piratez implementation is quite different, and the name is enough. It wouldn't be noticeable 99% of the time any ways.

@civilian:

I understand. I don't think "gas chamber", or its French equivalent, are used for much else either. There is way too much bad connotation to the term now for it to be used much. But I maintain my stance that being reminded that we're pirates and not heroes is a good thing. Piratez is very often goofy and funny (as it should be! It's a game) and having a reminder once in a while that we're also rather bad is good balance for the tone, to steer clear of Captain Hook pirates.

And if you really don't like it, you can always not research it, or mod in "STR_DONT_WANNA_SEE_IT" as an extra dependency.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: new_civilian on May 04, 2016, 08:47:25 pm
I simply changed the name to Stun Trap, I do not want to disable them at all!  :D

And yes, I like those ambiguous moments in Xpiratez, too, Like where you ask yourself... "Wait a minute, what am I doing? Robbing, killing and enslaving unarmed civilians on a holiday trip.... "

*sees loot*

"Oh well, go get'em! Yarrrr"  8)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 04, 2016, 08:53:15 pm
Ah, hum.. yeah.. totally forgot the option to just mod another name.. duh!  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Baldri on May 07, 2016, 10:42:58 pm
And yes, I like those ambiguous moments in Xpiratez, too, Like where you ask yourself... "Wait a minute, what am I doing? Robbing, killing and enslaving unarmed civilians on a holiday trip.... "

Omg, I had the same impression just today when a bunch of altar boys got slaug... run into my bullets by accident. You aren't a glorified heroe at all! Quiet like it to think about this way.

The end of the story: I decided to enslave the last altar boy that survived two bullets of my 37mm gun SOMEHOW. So it was a happy end at all! He will appreciate life just so much more now! All due to my doings! Aren't I am a good person?  :P

Btw: Can we expect a bootypedia entry for the squires soon? It is quiet funny when you think about it how the sexy gals are trying to convince the teenagers. "Ohhhhhh such a nice boy could you please please please work for us instead of the church?" the Gal asks. The Altar Boy responds: "No mam, I am an honored mem...". Then the gal opens the first button of her top. "Uhhh its getting so hot in here. My skin is really getting sooo wet. I am sweating all over my body." Just half a minute later you see the altar boy cleaning the floors of the still like a madman. He even catched all the spiders!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 07, 2016, 10:48:30 pm
Feel free to make the entry :) I definitely have some plans for Squires in the future (from 'knavery' which would be akin to 'pimpcraft' ie. an economic activity, to maybe a psionic-palanquir or a morale-boosting choir). But it has been slated for much later as I'm working on early game now.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Baldri on May 07, 2016, 11:29:34 pm
Awesome, I just fall in love (somehow) when reading "Squire" and thought about my very own fanboys!

So I gave it a shot:

Squire:

Convincing the altar boys to work for us was quiet easy compared to more mature male captives or the most females.
All the Runts had to do was to stretch their body in front of them when entering the interogation room. Then, when they are bowing over the table while looking deep into their eyes and asking kindly for their help, they almost immediately start to clean. Surprisingly easy. We do not know why fully though!

I told you earlier about our "special" attributes! But what exactly are they? One thing for sure: While cleaning our base almost fanatically (we think due to their life in a church) there is one problem with them: They tend to clean the same place all over again. We do not know why, but clearly it is the place where they have the best view to our more recreational areas. Like showers or bathrooms and so on.

However: This can not be coincidally but we do nut understand the mechanism behind this just yet. Further psychological research (you know Cap'n, brainy stuff) could bring up some oportunities.
Unfortunately, while beeing highly submissive, they are far less efficient then mature slaves due to their sticking to specific locations. (Why?)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 08, 2016, 02:13:10 pm
Far too long to fit, but thanks :) Still need a pedia picture, I'll probably use some net gfx instead of trying to make one myself :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Zharkov on May 08, 2016, 03:56:57 pm
The Squires are our most inefficient slaves, despite the fact that they get tons of private tutoring by the gals and dress to look most piratey. Maybe some more research in the Squires' upbringing by the Church as Altar Boys is needed to get some more use out of them.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 08, 2016, 04:57:02 pm
:) Yes but definitely not as slaves... only a monster would force kids to work even nearly as hard as adult people :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 08, 2016, 04:57:28 pm
It would be cool to have a way to either search the Ufopaedia/workshop lists or to sort them alphabetically.

In the mid/endgame most of the time you visit either place you know exactly what you are looking for but the lists are sorted pretty arbitrarily and, in the case of the Workshop, it might be hard to know which category the item you are looking for belongs to. And even if you do some of those filtered lists are pretty long.

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Zharkov on May 08, 2016, 05:43:21 pm
:) Yes but definitely not as slaves... only a monster would force kids to work even nearly as hard as adult people :)

Yeah, I just thought that the brainerz would call them slaves, because they are quite confused about what is happening here. They did not forsee that the gals would show such a nurture behavior and start transforming the children to become more like them. They might have expected a more exploitative behavior...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 08, 2016, 11:22:31 pm
Some things that i have gathered so far. Of course my opinion and im free to post them :)

- Hunting Rifles probably deserve a nerf. Im using them *almost* exclusivly (late first year) because they are do great damage and are damn accurate. Also, i just developed Scoped Rifles, which are even better ? :D
- If possible, add more ship layouts. My smugglers and raiders always use the same vessel. Perhaps add 2 Layouts for a "small" raider vessel, list them as "Variant A" and "Variant B" in the pedia if necesarry ? Same goes for a bunch of other ships, like Humanists and Trader Freighters, they appear a lot and its always (obviously) the same layout ? Some variance would greatly benefit the mod i guess ?
- I think the mid-level Hostages should perhaps get a different tech-unlock-pool. I sometimes, on purpose, dont interrogiate them because there is a high chance to unlock a "common" tech as opposed to an uncommon one, so i hold all these valueable slaves until i depleted the tech-pool with "low" hostages. I dont think thats the intention ?
- Rebalance cost of Seagul Missiles.
- Parrots seem to be a bit too good when it comes to scouting.
- I think it would be nifty to add anoher merc similar in tech to the Parrot, but instead its a Black Cat. With the parrot being able to offer good scouting on daylight, he cat would be its pendant in darkness. I.e. a non-flying, night-vision scout. NV ~ 18 ?
- I spend more than 200 ! time units hitting a Smuggler Cat Girl with Fistycuffs but my 4 guys were unable to down here. I know they are supposed to be hard to hit, but surely 25 tries with fair strength and accuracy Gals should be able to knock one Cat Girl out...?!
- I think it would be good if the aquisiton on any type of Gal armour would immediatly unlock that Armour for the purpose of Bootypedia. Its very cumbesome to equip armours in general and its even more annoying to equip them just to see the frickin stats. I recently got an Assassins and Defender Suit and it took me way too long to get a grip on how exactly they perform. Wouldnt it be possible to unlock them for the Pedia without unlocking them for manufacturing unless the proper tech reqs are meet ?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 08, 2016, 11:51:17 pm
That's some interesting opinions ;)

- Hunting rifles: Seriously, after a whole year? They are definitely my "go to" starting rifle/early sniper rifle, but after one year you shouldn't have many gals for which that's the best weapon. I am merely in July and I replaced mine with other weapons that have more punch/auto-fire for midfield gals, and much, much better sniper weapons already. It is definitely a great weapon for new, valuable gals at the beginning of the game though, for the others: shotgun with one slug AP shells do really well (even better accuracy, but you need to be at close range, which is ok for not very valuable gals, and scouts are close to enemies any ways).

- The more ship layouts the better, that's true. Especially given how many raids we perform in one playthrough. The only problem is that it takes time to make and doesn't add much to the game, so it's better if Dioxine invest in totally new things that really vary the gameplay (like the new mansions). Hopefully someone who can do maps and is interested? Unfortunately, most of the map stuff doesn't work on Linux, so that can't be me..

- Mid level hostages: As in guild reps and stuff? Most of the truly valuable tech they grant is as a result of the interrogation itself instead of being pulled from the list of bonus stuff. It is good practice to interrogate the low levels first though, since that gives you good background info to setup your interrogation of the VIP. I think that's ok.

- Seagulls are expensive, but you can make them eventually, so it's not so bad then. They are rather ridiculously expensive though, I agree.

- Parrots: Fully agree! On the first ~2-3 turns, parrots will scout everything and you don't care if they get shot, unlike a dedicated scout gal (with the training/investment required to get good TUs). But with their stamina, they eventually become much less worth it. I'd rather the parrot got a TU nerf (so not as good at the beginning) but a stam buff (so better in the later turns). Or maybe that's intended and the dog has better stam/stam regen? I'd have to check.. I haven't looked at dogs since parrots showed up and I used to really value them, which says something...

- Cat: Cool idea! I think someone also mentioned a pet cat before, as a psychic familiar? The gals need some cat, yeah ;)

- Cat girls have great melee dodge, so if you don't have great melee accuracy (you say fair, which doesn't sound like enough!), you don't stand a chance. Plus there's bugs depending on their angles, I think. Engage catgirls from range, especially with stun grenades, as the stun AoE quickly takes them down.

- Unfortunately, the brainerz would need to destroy a suit to research it, and I sure don't want that ;) I would love a new item "X Armor Specs sheet", which would be placed in the same loot pile as the armors (the military supply ships are bringing the user's manual with the armor!) and which, once researched, give you the ufopaedia article for that armor? That would cut a lot of the "equip and check", and allow a bit of extra info like resists, stam recovery and dodge to be gathered.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 09, 2016, 12:12:25 am
snip
- Cat girls have great melee dodge, so if you don't have great melee accuracy (you say fair, which doesn't sound like enough!), you don't stand a chance. Plus there's bugs depending on their angles, I think. Engage catgirls from range, especially with stun grenades, as the stun AoE quickly takes them down.
snip

Anything that uses the stealth/invis hack fails to behave like other units in anyway. Even the same unit facing a different direction can have a wildly different set of interactions. Would that they behaved in a given pattern always but they do not and dont think they can. The mechanic functions by exploiting a loophole in how the game handles surfaces/hitbox areas. I don't expect such a bodge to behave itself ever.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 09, 2016, 10:29:52 am


That's some interesting opinions ;)

hey, thanks for the Input.

Hunting Rifles: I did overexagerate a bit. It is October first year and i just upgraded my 8 HRs to Scoped Rifles. I i usually have 10 to 14 Gals on the Bonnie and my split is basicly 3 Combat Shotguns, 1 Flamer, 2 Machine Guns and the rest Hunting Rifles. In Addition, EVERY Swabbie gets a HR, because they are so damn good.
You can basicly line up all your Gals in a nice Shooting line, use a Parrot to Scout and then fire 4 to 8 accurate, high-powered bullets across half the map (assuming no Terror site).
I definitly think they are a bit too good, the combination of high powered PS Ammo (better than normal assault rifles) and accuracy are kinds ard to top. In this playthrough, i didnt even consider any weapon other than Hunting Rifles and Machine Guns...certainly nothing from the Black Market as well as no AR or BR.

Ship Layouts: I dont know how "hard" or time-consuming it is to build up a new ship layout. However, if i may be so bold: I dont think new Features, especially the Mansions, are well, better spent time than adding new ship layouts. Diversity is key and i think a few more ship layouts, all things considered, would add more Entertainment to the mod than Mansion Missions. Think about it: How much time do you spend raiding the same ships over and over again, and how much time do you spend in mansion missions ? Of course, this may just be my subjective experience but in my opinion the Ratio is like 15 to 1 in favour of ship raidings.

Hostages: I consider hostages with a value of like 70+k as "mid"-Level. Guild Reps sell for like 150, so they arent really "mid" to me anymore. When you use the word "Interrogation", you mean the first, Initial Research of said hostage-class, correct ?

Parrots: Im not sure which Approach would be best. I think it is a bit retarded to pack one or two Parrots into your Bonnie and use them to literally Scout the entire map 95 % of the time on TURN 1 !!. So in my eyes, TUs should be decreased to something reasonable like 80. That would disable the ability to increase height Levels AND fly around the map to either fly around on the ground, or increase height a bit instead of both.

Cats: Nice that we agree. Black Cats would suit a pirate, hopefully we will see it someday :)

Cat Girl: Since i was just Fistycuffs and they only require Melee Acc, i can say they had average Melee Acc. Most were slightly above 50. Tbh, i didnt try using Gals with 80+ because those were wielding Poison Daggers and Rapiers and i wanted to get her alive (that was before she used her Fuso Sword on me after i missed an entire turn).

Armours: Nice idea, i also like we are basicly on the same boat. Perhaps there  could be semi-rare Armour-unlock items -> like the Solar Courier or Spartan Weapon Magazines ?

That's some interesting opinions ;)

- Hunting rifles: Seriously, after a whole year? They are definitely my "go to" starting rifle/early sniper rifle, but after one year you shouldn't have many gals for which that's the best weapon. I am merely in July and I replaced mine with other weapons that have more punch/auto-fire for midfield gals, and much, much better sniper weapons already. It is definitely a great weapon for new, valuable gals at the beginning of the game though, for the others: shotgun with one slug AP shells do really well (even better accuracy, but you need to be at close range, which is ok for not very valuable gals, and scouts are close to enemies any ways).

- The more ship layouts the better, that's true. Especially given how many raids we perform in one playthrough. The only problem is that it takes time to make and doesn't add much to the game, so it's better if Dioxine invest in totally new things that really vary the gameplay (like the new mansions). Hopefully someone who can do maps and is interested? Unfortunately, most of the map stuff doesn't work on Linux, so that can't be me..

- Mid level hostages: As in guild reps and stuff? Most of the truly valuable tech they grant is as a result of the interrogation itself instead of being pulled from the list of bonus stuff. It is good practice to interrogate the low levels first though, since that gives you good background info to setup your interrogation of the VIP. I think that's ok.

- Seagulls are expensive, but you can make them eventually, so it's not so bad then. They are rather ridiculously expensive though, I agree.

- Parrots: Fully agree! On the first ~2-3 turns, parrots will scout everything and you don't care if they get shot, unlike a dedicated scout gal (with the training/investment required to get good TUs). But with their stamina, they eventually become much less worth it. I'd rather the parrot got a TU nerf (so not as good at the beginning) but a stam buff (so better in the later turns). Or maybe that's intended and the dog has better stam/stam regen? I'd have to check.. I haven't looked at dogs since parrots showed up and I used to really value them, which says something...

- Cat: Cool idea! I think someone also mentioned a pet cat before, as a psychic familiar? The gals need some cat, yeah ;)

- Cat girls have great melee dodge, so if you don't have great melee accuracy (you say fair, which doesn't sound like enough!), you don't stand a chance. Plus there's bugs depending on their angles, I think. Engage catgirls from range, especially with stun grenades, as the stun AoE quickly takes them down.

- Unfortunately, the brainerz would need to destroy a suit to research it, and I sure don't want that ;) I would love a new item "X Armor Specs sheet", which would be placed in the same loot pile as the armors (the military supply ships are bringing the user's manual with the armor!) and which, once researched, give you the ufopaedia article for that armor? That would cut a lot of the "equip and check", and allow a bit of extra info like resists, stam recovery and dodge to be gathered.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 09, 2016, 11:53:04 am
I personally think parrots should be more of a late early game thing than something available from the start, at least training new ones. Something more advanced than Mutant Alliance contact, but not overly so. That would solve many problems, including sniping (though it's less pronounced in the new long range vision system).

Oh, and about Fisticuffs: don't use them on gals with such low Melee, use Handles instead - you'll get better stun damage too.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 09, 2016, 04:25:46 pm
Yes, the parrot as it is currently is a bit too good. It could do with some kind of a TU reduction, like to 100? 120 is too much, 80 is too little given that it is easy for gals to get the same number. The current stats, maybe with a bit more stamina, should be kept for an advanced scouting drone (based on academy drone, small ship engine and some other flying tech), and it would require some stuff to be built, rather than being "free" like the current parrot.

And for sure, fistycuffs are not for gals with low melee skill. At 65% of melee, on a gal with 50 melee skill, that's ~32% to hit. Especially bad against catgirls. With their melee dodge (48% on the front, 36% on the sides, 24% on the back), they are guaranteed to dodge your hits except in the back, where you have an 8% chance to land. (dodge is additive, so 32% to hit minus 24% to dodge is 8% to hit). That's an average of 1 hit per ~13 tries, which is 104 TUs. So that was a doomed attempt.. especially doomed on a catgirl with a katana!

Otherwise, RE:

Hunting rifles: You should soon discover outfits that boost Firing if you haven't yet. Combined with sniper rifles or better, they vastly outclass hunting/scoped rifles for the "one aimed shot a turn" strategy.

Ship layouts: It's not that hard, and it's quite enjoyable if you're into model building/drawing. But it's not all that new. I guess I prefer the low occurrence, very different missions as a refresher, rather than getting the high occurrence missions to vary more. I have been lucky enough that the ships I encounter are various classes, so it hasn't been boring yet.

Hostages: Yes, I mean the first research project completed with that unit (and then later the broken one) are what the most valuable. The "random bonus ones" can be good, but they are not as significant.

Armors: A "body armor magazine" could work, but the simplest to me seems to just put a spec sheet on the same tile as the armors you loot. Then you can quickly research the specs when you loot something new, which gives you the UFOPaedia article but nothing else about the armor.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 10, 2016, 02:35:04 pm
Here's a small thing I'd like to see:
The tech tree is very confusing to newcomers. For example, Linux SMG is a precursor tech to Bigger Guns. Until you've researched Linux SMG, you can't discover new weapons for your ships, and you can't build most defensive installations. But I wasn't interested in SMGs - I never use them, since they're usually weak against armored enemies, and there were always a dozen other techs that looked more promising, like captured engineers, who I thought might teach me these important secrets - so I played for years of game time without bothering to research that path, and only eventually found what I was doing wrong via the online Tech Tree.

So I think the Linux SMG tech should be renamed 'Basic Gun Design' or similar - it could still give you the same stuff otherwise. There are probably other techs like that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 10, 2016, 02:45:05 pm
Here's a small thing I'd like to see:
The tech tree is very confusing to newcomers. For example, Linux SMG is a precursor tech to Bigger Guns. Until you've researched Linux SMG, you can't discover new weapons for your ships, and you can't build most defensive installations. But I wasn't interested in SMGs - I never use them, since they're usually weak against armored enemies, and there were always a dozen other techs that looked more promising, like captured engineers, who I thought might teach me these important secrets - so I played for years of game time without bothering to research that path, and only eventually found what I was doing wrong via the online Tech Tree.

So I think the Linux SMG tech should be renamed 'Basic Gun Design' or similar - it could still give you the same stuff otherwise. There are probably other techs like that.

This is SOO true.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 10, 2016, 04:31:19 pm
Yes, some techs have far reaching consequences that are quite surprising. Guns wise, the Linux SMG and Clockwork guns are remarkable for that. It would be better to either rename them so that they look more appealing in general (I skipped the clockwork gun on a previous playthrough and payed for it) or introduce better hints in some of the "fluff research" so that players might be inclined to go back and clean up those projects.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Cristao on May 10, 2016, 04:41:06 pm
^true
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 10, 2016, 05:30:33 pm
The system isn't pefect and I will look what I can do about this. Yet everyone hates empty or obsolete research. The general pattern is you need to research actual stuff, not just theory, to advance. To get gun X, you need guns A, B and C each of which represents a crucial engineering improvement, leading up to X. Otherwise there would be an ever-increasing number of techs you will never ever research, since they're already obsolete. But yeah, some rephrasing of research topic names might help there.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Baldri on May 11, 2016, 04:55:02 pm
Yesterday I did a scientific run. Which means I did all missions (but mansions) with debugkilling. As said, for science.

So I was curious: When will I get Old Earth books? As said: no mansionrun, cause there the book is guranteed I think.

The book opens up a lot of critical technologies, as you might know, which should advance you a lot. While not researching captives due to debug-mode I got the books in early octobre in the first year. I started capturing there because there was nothing left to research. With all the basic stuff out of the way I got it rather quickly. Now: What does this mean from my POV? Well there are basically two scenarios gameplaywise.

Lets assume one luck out and will find the gating tech from the very first researched captive one find. You will not get anything from it this way at all. You lack the money and basicresearch to profit from it. However this is the best thing of all since you should be faster overall and you have relatively advanced stuff in an early phase.

If you manage to find the books later though aliens are getting stronger and you might lose some high experienced soldiers on the way. Also you have to research captives a lot to narrow down the chances of getting the books. However things getting nasty in year two if you lack something. At least for me. To improve your odds you should research captives, to make the captives more likely to offer this tech. This narrowing down has some disadvantage. You will not get as many armor-parts as you may want to profit from the books at all. Because you can not manufacture the captives this way. The game will get harder as later you find the books in my opinion.

I think it is relatively easy to get them if you researching the prisoners consequently.

The thing is: You will get 21 technologies (at most) from it to research. Which is a little bit overwhelming but well worth it of course. But having a bottleneck like this is slightly uhm overwhelming, as said. You only need 8 altarboys at most to get them.

I hereby suggest:

- Remove old earth books completely and make back to school a more easy to archive technology.
- Add several new books which you can only research with the "back to school technology" Like: "Martial Arts for Beginners" for, well, martial arts. Or "Old fashion magazine" for Seductress Outfit. You got the drill.
- make these books available in the data-discs and interogating specific people. Like... Hostess might give you "Old fashion magazine" while researched. Because why would an altarboy knowing about martial arts training, for example? Right now he might give you the books. There might be a reason for it, sure, but I think you know what I am trying to explain.

What do you think? Just had the idea.  :)

It would delay the technologies while also making it somewhat more difficult to get and prevent the load of technologies while opening up the bottleneck.

Edit: Added a picture, "Tech" means old earth book technology.



Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Eddie on May 12, 2016, 12:10:15 am
My 2 cent:
I agree that old earth books are in limited supply and you usually get that tech from interrogation, altar boys beeing your best subjects because they research fast (5 man days). The problem here is that it is a gate tech, and if you don't know you need it you won't look for it with interrogations.

my suggestion: add some non descript books that you need to research to unlock the library, and building a library opens up the suggested study topics like martial arts and fashion magazine.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 12, 2016, 03:21:39 am
What? You are specifically told to research Old Earth Books, and even how to get that knowledge:

From the Spring Cleaning article:
"Much has been lost in this wild world we inhabit. While the Stellar Empire has brought technology, it also took away our means of understanding it. We can tinker, match and mix, but not really improve. We need to find some well-informed allies, as well as to gain - either through Discs (that can only be decrypted here) or random interrogation of anyone who seems smart - the knowledge of Old Earth books, and then start the 'Back To School' project."
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 17, 2016, 01:32:21 am
How about adding item weights to inventory.
Would help a lot when equipping new cannonf...er... team members.

There's room where it tells you the item names. "Laser Pistol [Weight:5/7]" would look just fine instead of "Laser Pistol".
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 01:40:44 am
How about adding item weights to inventory.

Ummm, how old is your version? ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 17, 2016, 04:01:45 am
0.98E.
Am I missing something?
I didn't notice anything about item weights in 0.98F notes.

Edit: I don't mean the total encumbrance that is on the upper right corner of the equip screen. I mean individual item weights.
Edit2: Now I am on 0.98F and I still don't see it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 17, 2016, 04:23:55 am
Meridian added item weight to the ufopaedia 27 days ago (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/5f44c4a103921f20a3dbfbe2b63246254060b8be). Any executable more recent than the 20th of April should have that feature.

Are you updating the mod but not the executable? The executable distributed with XPIratez definitely has that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on May 17, 2016, 04:56:05 am
I see the missed communication here. :)

a0kribu is asking for weight on the items when you pick them up in the Inventory Equipping screen, so you will know right away that the weak gal with 8 wt space left can't hold that 35 wt Heavy Gauss, etc. ;)

But yeah, in the Ufopedia screens its great. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 17, 2016, 05:02:10 am
Ah.. indeed... Maybe the best would be to add it close to the weight indicator? Something like:

Normally: 20/30
After picking up an item: 20+8/30
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 17, 2016, 05:44:38 am
I thought the best place for it would be to include in the item name.
When you have inventory open and hover over an item it tells you it's name. There's ample space there.

And yes, ivandogovich is correct. I want to see the item weight in the inventory just like I expressly said in my first post. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 17, 2016, 05:46:41 am
Wouldn't be that too much clutter? You can always m-click to see the Pedia or simply pick the item up to check the weight.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 17, 2016, 05:51:58 am
https://imgur.com/QRg2tOp
https://imgur.com/wELhzyM

Mockup of what I mean. That is not too much clutter  imo. Or maybe just the current weight of the item so 42 in case of the Bossar to avoid confusion.
You could even go "[Weight:42]".

https://imgur.com/TtQ2Eji
Like this.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 11:41:30 am
Ah sorry, I understand now.

I don't personally think it's necessary, since 1) you can check it in the Pedia, 2) item weight in itself is quite meaningless - what counts is total weight, which is already displayed. But I'm not the decider here and I don't exactly mind this being displayed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 17, 2016, 12:02:19 pm
Ah sorry, I understand now.

I don't personally think it's necessary, since 1) you can check it in the Pedia, 2) item weight in itself is quite meaningless - what counts is total weight, which is already displayed. But I'm not the decider here and I don't exactly mind this being displayed.

I also don't find it too important.
I'd rather see melee and throwing accuracy displayed along firing accuracy.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 12:37:51 pm
I'd rather see melee and throwing accuracy displayed along firing accuracy.

Oh yes, me too.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 17, 2016, 12:45:51 pm
I don't exactly mind this being displayed.

I do, it's kind of ugly. Why would THIS get displayed and not some other random stat?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 17, 2016, 02:34:05 pm
I do, it's kind of ugly. Why would THIS get displayed and not some other random stat?

Frankly I though something similar, but OTOH I have a history of criticizing changes that were introduced anyway and then I liked them after all... :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 17, 2016, 02:46:58 pm
I do, it's kind of ugly. Why would THIS get displayed and not some other random stat?

This stat instead of any other random stat because it's the most important stat when I am budgeting the weight for a new soldier. It's too arbitrary to remember for all the misc pistols rifles swords whatever that are available at my disposal at that specific moment.

By the way do you check your PMs.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 17, 2016, 03:03:39 pm
Why remember at all? Put in soldier's inventory, see how much weight it takes, does it go red numbers or not? Also if you  really, really don't want to do that for some reason (no idea what reason), MMB/RMB on an item takes you to the Pedia page directly, where Wt is displayed as well (provided you have that item researched).

Also I didn't receive any PMs from you.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on May 17, 2016, 04:10:10 pm
I would also prefer to not have the weight in the item name. It would look ugly.
And it isn't a really important stat for me. I know pistols are light, SMGs are heavier and so on, that's enough. I'll just fill the gals up with explosives, and the weight of those is easy to remember, if needed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 17, 2016, 04:47:01 pm
During battle, picking up an item to know its weight is at leasy 16 TUs (14 to hand, 2 to drop). It's happened to me a few times to go: "Oh! I'll pick that up -> Ugh, super overweight -> Drop it -> What a waste of TUs..."

One way to deal with that without adding to the clutter would be to add the weight of an item to the total weight as soon as it is picked up by the player's mouse (same time the game updates the TUs to put it somewhere in a gal's inventory). Then you see how severely overweight you would be and can just drop it back if you don't want to be. Some items (ex.: Gauss) are unintuitively heavy and this could help with that. But I don't mind too much not having it.

Adding Throwing and Melee to the displayed stats would be great.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: alinare on May 17, 2016, 08:14:19 pm
Hello everyone:
I think the game Millennium Return to Earth, for MsDos, is a good source of inspiration. For example, What would simulate obtain certain rare materials such as palladium, gold, deuterium, etc. of an asteroid field, near Earth, through a specific ship, and spaceport, or other facility that would receive the material extracted ?.  Another option would be to take them off the enemy, previously sticking with it. :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 18, 2016, 12:54:59 am
Why remember at all?

Some items don't have ufopaedia articles on them. Ever.

Some items you want to pick up are not researched when you do it. Picking them up during battle may sometimes be life and death for the soldier and even when not it's time units I'd rather spend on something useful. I am attached to my time units like that.

During battle, picking up an item to know its weight is at leasy 16 TUs (14 to hand, 2 to drop). It's happened to me a few times to go: "Oh! I'll pick that up -> Ugh, super overweight -> Drop it -> What a waste of TUs..."

Every time unit counts.


One way to deal with that without adding to the clutter would be to add the weight of an item to the total weight as soon as it is picked up by the player's mouse (same time the game updates the TUs to put it somewhere in a gal's inventory). Then you see how severely overweight you would be and can just drop it back if you don't want to be. Some items (ex.: Gauss) are unintuitively heavy and this could help with that.


You guys don't like it with the item name: All good, how about adding it to the Weight limit temporarily like this suggestion. :)


Adding Throwing and Melee to the displayed stats would be great.

The soldier stat screen access is much more fluid than the ufopaedia one. (For some reason sometimes I have to click MB five times before the game registers it. And to top it off I *don't remember* all the items I have researched so I will be clicking there like "Okay this was click 12 I probably don't have this item researched".)

From my experience most of the game you don't care about those stats on randoms one bit. Mid/late game you have dedicated swordsmen and they get flagged by the stats mod anyways + 90% of your soldiers are using guns.

The point is. Throwing and melee accuracy you only care about sometimes and only for few people on your team. Item weight however is something that you care about *every* single time you equip someone to a lesser or stronger degree. If items didn't have weight you'd be talking about slot damage efficiency or some stupid cookie cutter shit like that.

You do care if that stun baton weights more than the cattle prod but you need those two grenades and maybe a high explosive.
Maybe you want to run from the mission. The mercenaries are closing in but you need to make a choice: "The Heavy Gauss or the Sniper Gauss. Maybe even that Mercenary Engineer? Can I make it? How do I know?"
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 18, 2016, 01:07:55 am
One way to deal with that without adding to the clutter would be to add the weight of an item to the total weight as soon as it is picked up by the player's mouse (same time the game updates the TUs to put it somewhere in a gal's inventory).

I like that solution (more like an improvement really - it works like this in all RPGs).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 18, 2016, 07:35:01 am
Some items don't have ufopaedia articles on them. Ever.

Some items you want to pick up are not researched when you do it. Picking them up during battle may sometimes be life and death for the soldier and even when not it's time units I'd rather spend on something useful. I am attached to my time units like that.

Every time unit counts.

Yes, I really don't like it.
But to show that I have respect for other people's opinions (which unfortunately many new people on this forum don't have... talking in general now, not about you)... I will implement it as user option.
It will be available in "options.cfg" as hidden option, you can then turn it on manually; I will post the option name once it is done.

You guys don't like it with the item name: All good, how about adding it to the Weight limit temporarily like this suggestion. :)

No, that breaks current functionality.
I just equip my gals without looking at weight and then start taking things away, until I am not in red anymore.
This change would not allow me to do that, because the item I temporarily take away from inventory would still count.


The soldier stat screen access is much more fluid than the ufopaedia one. (For some reason sometimes I have to click MB five times before the game registers it. And to top it off I *don't remember* all the items I have researched so I will be clicking there like "Okay this was click 12 I probably don't have this item researched".)

From my experience most of the game you don't care about those stats on randoms one bit. Mid/late game you have dedicated swordsmen and they get flagged by the stats mod anyways + 90% of your soldiers are using guns.

The point is. Throwing and melee accuracy you only care about sometimes and only for few people on your team. Item weight however is something that you care about *every* single time you equip someone to a lesser or stronger degree. If items didn't have weight you'd be talking about slot damage efficiency or some stupid cookie cutter shit like that.

You do care if that stun baton weights more than the cattle prod but you need those two grenades and maybe a high explosive.
Maybe you want to run from the mission. The mercenaries are closing in but you need to make a choice: "The Heavy Gauss or the Sniper Gauss. Maybe even that Mercenary Engineer? Can I make it? How do I know?"

Just to give you a different perspective:
- I don't care about weight at all... your girls should have enough after few mission or dojo training to carry normal equipment; if you start with strength 10, just sack the girl and hire another one, it's quicker
- My gals carry 33% melee, 33% bows and 33% guns... I have never had 90% guns, that's just bad play... seeing melee+throwing for me is 1000x more important than seeing weight
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 18, 2016, 09:09:06 am
It will be available in "options.cfg" as hidden option, you can then turn it on manually; I will post the option name once it is done.

I love you. This game would not be the same without you. :3

I don't agree with 90% guns being bad gameplay. Bows don't scale that well and the hitbox is so wonky. You need too many TUs to bring bigger targets down with them and the smaller targets die to whatever.
Melee scales, sort of, but you need to get in position to use it so 33% of it (melee exclusive specialists) in your squad is overkill.

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 18, 2016, 10:13:30 am
Are we playing the same game?

Melee scales to OP levels.
Throwing scales very well too, I am regularly one-shotting Mechtoids with 60 armor using Longbow! Not to mention shooting over obstacles from safety.
Firing scales only for Officer's pistol, Sniper rifle and that's it.

Extra stats (I will make them confiigurable after OXCE 3.0):

Code: [Select]
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_FIRING_SHORT: "Firing>{ALT}{0}"
      STR_THROWING_SHORT: "Throw>{ALT}{0}"
      STR_MELEE_SHORT: "Melee>{ALT}{0}"
      STR_PSI_SHORT: "VooDoo>{ALT}{0},{1}"

Extra item weight in options.cfg:

Code: [Select]
  showItemNameAndWeightInInventory: true
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2016, 10:47:10 am
You're both right guys. :P In my opinion, both tactics are perfectly viable.
As always, thanks for your effort Meridian.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: yrizoud on May 18, 2016, 12:39:03 pm
Melee scales, sort of, but you need to get in position to use it so 33% of it (melee exclusive specialists) in your squad is overkill.
The number looks high, but it's because his melee girls are the heavy-armor scouts.
- With spotter/sniper technique, the scouts get a lot of effective playtime (hence the apparent 33%). When all goes well, a lot of shooters/archers stay unused.
- melee/scouts are taking risks, so in the total staff, he requires many scout/melee girls to replace the wounded.

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 18, 2016, 01:23:06 pm
Is it possible to make the morale system a bit more nuanced?

I've played battles where we roll over the opposition, stunning them all and taking no damage whatsoever. While we're looking for the last enemy, who is panicked and hiding in a corner, we run out of morale and start going berserk and killing each other. If I'm understanding what's going on here, morale declines over time and can only be raised by killing foes. Maybe the decline over time could be halted if you outnumber the enemy more than two to one? Or am I supposed to have everyone stop for cigarette breaks? (Most items that boost morale don't work if you're not injured, which seems weird to me.)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 18, 2016, 01:43:11 pm
Some items don't have ufopaedia articles on them. Ever.

Care to list them? There might be ommisions.

Regarding bows, I'm happy Meridian loves them (but if the angle bug will be ever fixed, there will be serious nerfing :) ) I don't generally use them myself, maybe a single per squad, since I find them boring. I tend towards 1/3 rd melee + pistol, 1/3 rd heavy weapons (mortars, machine guns) as they allow to destroy terrain, and 1/3 rd trainees with scoped rifles, shotguns or whatever.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on May 18, 2016, 02:00:45 pm
I am moving away from using a lot of pistol+melee gals because of the new sight range and the fact that smoke grenades are a lot less useful now.
Any chance to make smoke great again?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 18, 2016, 02:15:10 pm
Care to list them? There might be ommisions.

Regarding bows, I'm happy Meridian loves them (but if the angle bug will be ever fixed, there will be serious nerfing :) ) I don't generally use them myself, maybe a single per squad, since I find them boring. I tend towards 1/3 rd melee + pistol, 1/3 rd heavy weapons (mortars, machine guns) as they allow to destroy terrain, and 1/3 rd trainees with scoped rifles, shotguns or whatever.

When I see an item that needs one and doesn't have I'll be sure to pipe up. I don't recall what I specifically had in mind but it was something that didn't need it.

Yeah I agree that bows would be nice if they weren't so bloody unreliable with the angles. Paying 45x2 TUs on multiple people just to find out the chance to hit was a practical joke the whole time is not acceptable for me personally.
Now that I checked some math on them they do seem to scale pretty nicely on the paper though.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2016, 02:28:39 pm
I am moving away from using a lot of pistol+melee gals because of the new sight range and the fact that smoke grenades are a lot less useful now.
Any chance to make smoke great again?

I think smoke was too good.
Right now it still serves its (in my opinion) main purpose of giving you cover when disembarking. It's still as good at this as it was. But it's also very useful in the field.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 18, 2016, 02:45:20 pm
I think smoke was too good.
Right now it still serves its (in my opinion) main purpose of giving you cover when disembarking. It's still as good at this as it was. But it's also very useful in the field.

For us who are using smoke only when absolutely necessary... what exactly has changed?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on May 18, 2016, 02:57:58 pm
I agree that smoke was too good, but now it hardly matters, even when embarking, because often enemies start too close for it to be useful.

I think it has to do with the enhanced viewing range. Now enemies (and friends, of course) can see much further through smoke. So now enemies within ~15-20 tiles (I haven't counted) can see right through it, even if you dropped the 'nade right at your feet.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 18, 2016, 03:01:37 pm
I like how it works now. Stupid AI = OP smoke. So it still works very good. I feel like I don't need to think anymore once smoke grenades are in (before them, using buildings for cover to encircle the enemy provides some interesting challenge). Also to get full smoke cover, don't throw smoke grenades at your feet - throw them between you and the enemy (or on top of the enemy if you want to choke them ) :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 18, 2016, 03:08:49 pm
I am moving away from using a lot of pistol+melee gals because of the new sight range and the fact that smoke grenades are a lot less useful now.
Any chance to make smoke great again?
I have found weapons with good snapshots + melee in backpack to work really well. 10 TUs to get the weapon is not that bad and pistols never had enough stopping power in Piratez to-be really worth it.

Regarding smoke, I just realised I still play with 25 tiles vision. Will have to see how it changes things at the new default. But there are ways to increase smoke cover, especially multistage smoke weapons.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 18, 2016, 03:38:32 pm
I agree that smoke was too good, but now it hardly matters, even when embarking, because often enemies start too close for it to be useful.

I think it has to do with the enhanced viewing range. Now enemies (and friends, of course) can see much further through smoke. So now enemies within ~15-20 tiles (I haven't counted) can see right through it, even if you dropped the 'nade right at your feet.

It should not depend on view range at all.
They can't see you (and you can't see them) if there are 4 "full" smoke tiles between you and them. More, if they are not "full".

If the blast radius of smoke grenade was decreased, that could cause your issues.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on May 18, 2016, 03:47:13 pm
I'll have to test the smoke some more.

And I switched to ARs/BRs mostly, and melee in the backpack as Arthanor. Though I disagree with the pistols, as I meet a lot of unarmored enemies.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 18, 2016, 04:00:40 pm
I could see smoke appearing less effective with 30+ view range if the enemy are not directly across the core of the cloud. With low view distance diagonal vision runs out faster. So across the non full tiles at the edge previously you where just out of view range with imagined cover from smoke.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 18, 2016, 04:40:55 pm
I meant smoke is less effective now because the enemy potentially has more directions of effective attack due to better vision. You simply get shot at from all sides now.
Is it easier to see through smoke now? I never thought about it.

Regarding pistols: I love them! As long as they're Gauss pistols. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 18, 2016, 04:47:51 pm
Try Chem Magnum :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on May 18, 2016, 07:31:15 pm
lol yeah, Gauss pistols make pistols relevant again. I use chem magnums and smgs, but mostly in mansion missions and rarely otherwise.

For regular battles, if it's close enough and weak enough to fall to a pistol, it can fall to a handle and then be robbed/enslaved/ransomed. If it's dangerous, pistols, even at 40 damage and especially at low-ish accuracy (and prompting reaction fire, unlike melee) aren't worth it to actually kill stuff that needs to die.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: GarlandSP on May 18, 2016, 09:00:32 pm
Handguns are backup weapons for CQB they are niche weapons, i use them in cases where my gals must run from one point to the other and are low on stamina, handguns are excelent choices as they use low TU and dont consume Stamina.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 19, 2016, 04:23:57 am
Two suggestions.

A small red arrow over the head of the enemy/wounded soldier when you center your screen on them.
Reason: We all hate hunting for that invisible alien in the darkness.

A way to check enemy inventory (well, weapon he's holding) when you have vision of them.
Reason: You don't always recognize all the weapon models and sometimes the enemy is facing away from you/behind a wall from your perspective. Your soldier should have that information and it can be life and death often enough. Is that guildmaster holding a plasma pistol or is that heavy plasma? I know my armor can take one of them but not the other.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2016, 04:34:38 am
First, you have 'alt' for standing units, mini-map for laying units.

Second, it's a fast paced combat. It is not guaranteed that the soldier has a good visual. Besides, what the f*** did I made all these handobs for? What place it leaves for player's skill? What place for an error? And most of all, it'd remove the requirement of neutralizing the enemy to see the full picture of the stuff they're carrying - hence the pleasure from that fact. But whatever. I'd just never use such an option.

Yes I know I'm being irrational but rational people should never try to create any art.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 19, 2016, 04:48:39 am
I didn't mean the contents of their pockets, just the weapon.
Describing it as "fast paced combat" is kinda....

Are we playing the same game?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on May 19, 2016, 06:13:04 am
Might be a slightly odd idea, but there was mention of making the skyranger and pigeon harder to get and this might help there:  possible mission where you attack a salvage team or a salvage yard, or even an archeological dig, with possible rewards including scrap, piles of junk, homefront rifles(if anything can survive centuries in muck, these can) with the upper end rewards being wrecked vehicles or very rarely hulls for some of the black market ships.  You could rebuild a jetbike for sale or use, with a little work and a decent workshop, maybe this could be the only way to get a skyranger or pigeon, or other aircraft more in line with our era.

I think it would make sense to have better rewards for bigger maps, raiding a small salvage yard would offer less than a major one, or attacking a small group digging out a ruined jetbike vs a big crew who found an old airfield.

Another idea is to be able to have some runts, hands and maybe a brainer or two do job where they are the ones digging up old stuff, with the chance of your dig getting raided and needing to fight off those who want your hard earned relics or just want to repress what you may have found.  Probably a manufacturing project of that sort would be too complicated.

What other materials from our era do people think might be fun or useful to find?

Wow this got long
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: karadoc on May 19, 2016, 12:03:30 pm
I didn't mean the contents of their pockets, just the weapon.
Describing it as "fast paced combat" is kinda....
I think what Dioxine meant is that although the gameplay for us is slow, you should imagine that it is actual fast paced and hectic from the point of view of the soldiers. They are running and shooting and throwing grenades etc as fast as they can. They are sprinting through enemy lines to slash them with an electro-sword, etc. It is fast paced for them, even if it isn't fast paced for the player. And so if the soldiers aren't able to give a detailed account of the enemy stats and weapons after seeing a glimpse of them through the darkness, then perhaps it's ok that the player doesn't know that information either.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 19, 2016, 12:55:20 pm
I think what Dioxine meant is that although the gameplay for us is slow, you should imagine that it is actual fast paced and hectic from the point of view of the soldiers.

Indeed. What else would I mean by that.

Might be a slightly odd idea, but there was mention of making the skyranger and pigeon harder to get and this might help there:  possible mission where you attack a salvage team or a salvage yard, or even an archeological dig, with possible rewards including scrap, piles of junk, homefront rifles(if anything can survive centuries in muck, these can) with the upper end rewards being wrecked vehicles or very rarely hulls for some of the black market ships.  You could rebuild a jetbike for sale or use, with a little work and a decent workshop, maybe this could be the only way to get a skyranger or pigeon, or other aircraft more in line with our era.

Yes this is one of the options I have considered, but the most work-intensive one (requires a custom mission).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 20, 2016, 12:03:36 am
First, you have 'alt' for standing units, mini-map for laying units.
OMG you guys if you press Alt the invisible enemies that your characters can see but you can't are highlighted! This is the most amazing thing I've found out since my discovery that my characters can sprint if I press Control! And all after only three years of in-game time!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 20, 2016, 12:06:32 am
OMG you guys if you press Alt the invisible enemies that your characters can see but you can't are highlighted! This is the most amazing thing I've found out since my discovery that my characters can sprint if I press Control! And all after only three years of in-game time!

Well, the feature is only a few months old; and only available in OXCE+ ... but I like you like it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 20, 2016, 03:16:44 am
OMG you guys if you press Alt the invisible enemies that your characters can see but you can't are highlighted! This is the most amazing thing I've found out since my discovery that my characters can sprint if I press Control! And all after only three years of in-game time!

Although I didn't say it yesterday, I am also very happy to know of this feature.

As to poking fun at Dioxine calling it fast-paced combat:
Claiming that recognizing all the obscure sprites from all angles is what makes or breaks player skill in tactical combat is way more ridiculous (Not to mention that some vision-impaired people have hard time distinguishing Homefront from a pistol). I was just getting even.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 20, 2016, 03:43:04 am
But that's the mod's motto, dear sir. "It's Ridiculous!" :) Some things need to stay ridiculous. As for the vision impaired... I'm not a doctor, I don't heal people. I'm just a mere artist. What I know that sure, a game needs to be accessible. Meridian did wonders in improving the interface. But also - all in moderation. You cannot treat everyone as vision impaired only because some are. Sometimes an improvement takes away some of the spirit - I've seen it in too many games to count. What gives me the power to judge that? Why, nothing but my intuition. I might be wrong, true, sometimes I do get overdramatic over nothing.
(Also it is a fast paced combat, no denying that!)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 20, 2016, 05:35:56 am
This has probably been suggested before.
We need a way to make those interrogations disappear from the Workshop list. Either by making them not appear after they've been researched (Guessing it's impossible with the current implementation?) or adding some sort of superseding filter system.
Click on a button next to a topic and it toggles it's category between "obsolete" and default or something.

Also:
The workshop lists are just too bulky. They contain way too much clutter and categories are not enough, navigating is still way too painful.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 20, 2016, 10:47:12 am
I mentioned that some weeks ago already.
One way to partly fix it would be to increase the height of the list Container, so that it Displays 15 items instead of like..10 ?
Or Keep it at the same height, but decrease the font size.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 20, 2016, 12:32:58 pm
Font is 9 pixels high... how do you want to make it smaller?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 20, 2016, 12:48:23 pm
By making it 8 pixels high?

I'd rather see:
A filter that allows me to switch off all things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of materials.
A filter that allows me to switch on things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of base facilities. (To let you know what you're lacking.)
An 'alphabetical sort' option.
A 'do not show' list, for obsolete weapons I'm never going to make.

Obviously, some of these would be quite difficult to do...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 20, 2016, 01:57:50 pm
By making it 8 pixels high?

That's a bad suggestion and also a bad joke.
I really don't understand what did you want to say by this...

I'd rather see:
A filter that allows me to switch off all things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of materials.
A filter that allows me to switch on things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of base facilities. (To let you know what you're lacking.)
An 'alphabetical sort' option.
A 'do not show' list, for obsolete weapons I'm never going to make.

Obviously, some of these would be quite difficult to do...

That's more like it.
I'll implement some (if not all) in the near future.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: R1dO on May 20, 2016, 02:06:30 pm
That's a bad suggestion and also a bad joke.

And it is not even valid math.
10*9/15 gives 6px letters
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 20, 2016, 02:18:16 pm
6 pixel font?
https://www.dafont.com/6px.font
 ???
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bartojan on May 20, 2016, 02:30:43 pm
6 pixel font?
https://www.dafont.com/6px.font
 ???
And how about non-english letters?
Ň á ů ú Ž ž …
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 20, 2016, 03:23:40 pm
Let's drop this whole "make smaller font" idiocy, OK? This is getting real stupid real fast.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 20, 2016, 04:49:36 pm
And how about non-english letters?
Ň á ů ú Ž ž …
ˇ

I'd love to see õäöü.
If we'd get there I'd do Estonian translation.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Stian on May 20, 2016, 05:45:54 pm
ˇ

I'd love to see õäöü.
If we'd get there I'd do Estonian translation.
Better get started then. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: yrizoud on May 20, 2016, 05:48:49 pm
a0kribu, all these letters are already present and usable for a translation.
If you want to double-check the characters you'll need, the game fonts are :
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/master/bin/common/Language/FontBig.png)
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/master/bin/common/Language/FontSmall.png)

The argument is that such letters are already barely legible in the smallest font, so reducing this font's size is completely out of question.

(edit: I hot-linked the image from the main source repository, so the images will update when new characters are added. Future-proof post 8))
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: a0kribu on May 20, 2016, 06:09:52 pm
Future-proof post 8))

You get double points for this. :)

Better get started then. :)
I guess I will.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: yrizoud on May 20, 2016, 06:39:38 pm
I guess I will.
Note that even if you want to modify the file "et.yml" directly in order to check the results in-game (it's very handy to ensure that words are not too long), the actual way to contribute your translations is through Transifex https://www.transifex.com/openxcom/openxcom/
It may look less user-friendly, but it means you don't have to do everything alone (or from scratch). Some Estonian translations are already there. Add the missing things little by little : Even if you have to stop before it's completed, the next person who looks into it will already start from your work.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on May 24, 2016, 04:29:42 am
Is it possible to make it so it when you research slaves, it doesn't remove them? It seems wrong and generally beyond the pirate morality, as much as they have at least.  Even if they may decide to buy demonic energy with said slaves, they seem too pragmatic to just test a slave to destruction.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 24, 2016, 04:45:01 am
Did it occur to you that they set them free? :P But it's impossible to set destruction on only some items - either all or nothing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on May 24, 2016, 04:56:24 am
That was a possibility too, but again, pragmatic, why release someone who is still useful?  But since the engine can't selectively do that, I won't worry about it, and will assume releasing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 24, 2016, 07:18:21 am
Pragmatically it makes no sense, but maybe it's some sort of pirate tradition - after being interrogated, you're released (the  Prison description hints at that).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on May 24, 2016, 10:07:31 am
Just have your brainers read enough pillow books, then you don't need to waste slaves.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on May 25, 2016, 09:09:10 pm
Not sure it it's a random requests thread, so feel free to move this. :P

Since we have a parody of Star Wars, we absolutely cannot ignore Star Trek. (Also because SW fans on average seem to have a higher melee stat. Ba-dum-tsss.)

Anyway, The Academy was allowed to have a small wing of space-capable vessels for scientific purposes. They have no interstellar capability and so are usually active within the Solar System, searching for rare minerals, physical phenomena and general trouble.
The ships are, surprisingly, manned by Osiron. These missions are five years long (well, the system is big and they use ion engines, lol). Very few Sorceresses are willing to spend so much time away from politics, tormenting Beastmen and proper baths, so they're a minority and generally not (officially) in charge.
This would obviously be a space attack scenario, but we could also send this ship normally across the map, claiming it does some sort of manoeuvres before/after going into deep space. Hell, someone even made the Enterprise map long ago.
If this ship is interceptible (is there such a word?), then it should have a powerful, but very slow and inaccurate weapon, as well as little HP for its size but with decent shield (DR).

What's inside?
People in Standard Nonresistant Academy Fleet Uniforms. In short, SNAFUs. (Has to be drawn, but should be trivial.) No armour.

1. The Captain.
Use the karateka head, it'll look good on the red SNAFU. Has obscene stats, but still no armour. Usually carries an iGun. There's also a chance for a Tommygun with some really nasty ammo. Can actually say some advanced things about the Star Gods and their Empire, though I have no idea what exactly.

2. The Commander.
The most average normal guy in the ship, so everyone's bloody scared of him. Carries a high-end rifle (plasma rifle? Reticulan plasma rifle?). Has a manly beard which will certainly be fun to draw.

3. The Doctor.
What do you get if you take a Provost and change her armour to SNAFU? That's right, she's the Doctor. Well, except for psi; nobody would send talented psionics to loiter in the Solar System for years on end, sorting pink rocks and trying to secretly steer their crewmates' love lives out of boredom. Anyway, she should have a Dart Pistol to defend herself. Yeah, it sucks to be her.

4. The Science Officer.
But some psions can into space after all! This is basically an Esper with geekier clothes and loose hair (still has glowing green eyes and all). Her psi is obviously a problem to the player, she also tends to use wacky equipment (up to Microwave Cooker).

5. The Security Officer.
A half-naked Uber guy who only wears SNAFU pants (the upper part won't fit). The only one to carry around a heavy weapon, so he's quite maniacal about its firepower (some high-end guns, for example Plasma Blaster; no Microwave Cooker though, it's too so-phi-stee-kated). When captured, he won't talk, but the girls will like him!

6. The Token Alien.
A catgirl wearing SNAFU. Otherwise very catgirly in the traditional way, with katanas and everything. When captured, is just a normal catgirl too, which I think is telling about her species.

7. The Token Robot.
Not sure about the sprite (which means I have no idea where to get it from), but it's as dangerous as it is annoying. Only melee attacks. Immune to stun, explodes on death.

8. The Helpless Masses.
There to die in droves. Wearing SNAFUs, armed with various mid-level weapons like laser pistols. When captured, they tell engineering stuff and can be enslaved.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on May 25, 2016, 09:24:39 pm
In that case, i request a homage to the best SciFi Show in the history of TV, which would obviously be Babylon 5. I will offer a more indepth suggestion if my request is approved :p
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on May 25, 2016, 09:35:45 pm
@Solar: all good ideas. Maybe it can be somehow linked with the space missions I'm planning ('Zero-G', 'Nazi Moonbase' and 'Don't fall into the Sun').

In that case, i request a homage to the best SciFi Show in the history of TV, which would obviously be Babylon 5. I will offer a more indepth suggestion if my request is approved :p

Too late (tip: the Shadows, the Well-Wisher) :P Yeah Babylon 5 was really good... although it went belly-up after they changed the lead character between seasons 1 and 2. Then on it went from top notch to well designed of but boooriiiing. Certainly it wasn't the best Sci-Fi show ever though - that was Lexx :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 27, 2016, 12:05:31 am
I'd rather see:
A filter that allows me to switch off all things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of materials.
A filter that allows me to switch on things I can't currently manufacture due to lack of base facilities. (To let you know what you're lacking.)
An 'alphabetical sort' option.
A 'do not show' list, for obsolete weapons I'm never going to make.

Obviously, some of these would be quite difficult to do...

All except alphabetical sort are done.
Btw. alphabetical sort will be superseded by "quick searcher box" some time in the future.

After some more testing, I will publish a new version.

PS: the current saved status of all items will reset... all items will be marked as "new" after this change.

Code: [Select]
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_FILTER_DEFAULT: "Default"
      STR_FILTER_DEFAULT_SUPPLIES_OK: "Default (supplies OK)"
      STR_FILTER_DEFAULT_NO_SUPPLIES: "Default (no supplies)"
      STR_FILTER_NEW: "New"
      STR_FILTER_HIDDEN: "Hidden"
      STR_FILTER_FACILITY_REQUIRED: "Facility required"
      STR_MARK_ALL_AS: "Mark all as:"
      STR_MARK_ALL_AS_NEW: "New"
      STR_MARK_ALL_AS_NORMAL: "Normal"
      STR_MARK_ALL_AS_HIDDEN: "Hidden"
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 27, 2016, 12:55:55 pm
Cool! Will it be possible to tell which base facility you're missing?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on May 27, 2016, 08:32:07 pm
Cool! Will it be possible to tell which base facility you're missing?

It will be possible to say what pre-requisites you're missing.... by right-clicking on the table... the category will be replaced by missing pre-requisites.
You can translate them to roughly correspond to facilities, e.g. like so:

Code: [Select]
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      ALKO: "Still"
      CPU: "Lab or Computer Core"
      CPU: "Computer Core"
      FUS: "Fusion Reactor"
      GAUSS: "Gauss Battery"
      LAB: "Laboratory"
      LAS: "Laser Defenses"
      LIB: "Library"
      MINT: "Mint"
      PRINT: "Printer"
      PWR: "Power Station"
      REFI: "Refinery"
      SHOP: "Anything"
      SPA: "Luxury Spa"
      SUMM: "Summoning Circle"
      SUR: "Surgery Room"
      WELL: "Extractor"
      WORKS: "Workshop"
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on May 27, 2016, 09:45:23 pm
A thought occurred to me while i was setting a breaching charge with a grenade launcher ready to obliterate the room full of terror units on the other side. Why do we not have timed explosives launchers?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on May 29, 2016, 03:00:01 am
If I'm remembering right, as I don't currently have a save which has any ore, a single unit of ore uses up less space than the 50 units of scrap you can convert it into. Seems odd, given that a quick search on iron ore indicated that good ore tends to have around 60%-70% of its mass as actual iron, while less good ores were in the 20%-30% range, it's a bit odd that getting rid of the useless bits increases the space it takes.  I tend to think that the ore we steal is likely to be less good.

I have a couple of ideas here, one is sadly a nerf, where either the ore increases in the space it takes up or we get less scrap per unit of ore, with the possibility of different grades of ore giving different percentages of their mass in scrap(probably too complicated and would needlessly clutter up the manufacturing screen).

Another idea would be to just have the runts not be efficient at storage with specific materials and add some research projects that make those materials use up less space to indicate increases in organizational skills and techniques, I'm not sure what else would make sense other than scrap, but I'm sure there are other things too.

Note that I have no issue with the junk piles taking up less space than the stuff they hold, a precarious pile of stuff takes up less floor space than everything in it in neat stacks, in my experience.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mr. Quiet on May 29, 2016, 06:33:44 am
I hope you continued to build upon making the pirates dependent on engineering for your weaponry and ships. I can't think of anything else as I haven't been keeping up with the direction you went with the pirates. I'm sure everything will be awesome. I can't wait for 1.0 unless it's considered balanced and mostly feature complete, aside from donation tiers, which sound great!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Mattdo on May 29, 2016, 06:56:31 pm
a single unit of ore uses up less space than the 50 units of scrap you can convert it into.
Here's how I mentally justify that: ore is dull-looking and low in value, so you can leave most of it just lying around outside the base, not taking up any vault space, and it won't draw any attention.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: lusciouspear on May 31, 2016, 10:55:58 am
Factories should double as Prints imo. They take up so much room already...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: LexThorn on June 01, 2016, 06:20:24 am
Factories should double as Prints imo. They take up so much room already...

Agreed. It will be better that way. Factory has a lot of space, i think there is room to fit industrial printer device there. Logically.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 03, 2016, 07:43:56 pm
All except alphabetical sort are done.
Btw. alphabetical sort will be superseded by "quick searcher box" some time in the future.

A quick preview attached.

I am adding this to:
- new research
- new manufacture
- ufopedia
- stores
- buy/purchase
- sell/sack
- equip craft
- inventory
- maybe memorial ?

Did I forget something?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 03, 2016, 09:14:12 pm
A quick preview attached.

I am adding this to:
- new research
- new manufacture
- ufopedia
- stores
- buy/purchase
- sell/sack
- equip craft
- inventory
- maybe memorial ?

Did I forget something?

OMG!  I want to have your Children!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: AncientSion on June 03, 2016, 09:29:56 pm
Yeah, that is really a huge QoL.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 04, 2016, 01:26:38 am
Wow these improvements are insanely good, Meridian.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 04, 2016, 12:14:42 pm
So, it's finished.

There is a global switch to turn quick search on or off by default.
I will leave the default on TRUE for now, so that people will notice it...
... but I like to have it turned off, because it doesn't look sexy yet.

Even if it is turned off, you can easily toggle it on the GUI (hotkey Q); and it will even be automatically focused in this case... so you can just start typing.
If you toggle again, the search will be cleared and hidden.

Search is case-insensitive for English letters... for international you will unfortunately have to enter correct case when searching.

Search is not at every letter... it was too disturbing for me... so the search applies only after you press ENTER.

The very first search (of items) may take a little bit longer (about 1 second) until all translations are cached... but after that it will be instant.

Remaining screenshots attached.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: karadoc on June 05, 2016, 02:08:38 am
I'm really looking forward to that search feature. I presume it will be included in the next version of the mod, and I guess that the next version isn't far way. So I'll wait. But this feature does make me think that maybe I should set up my computer for compiling the source code, so that I can get this kind of thing early and perhaps contribute some improvements of my own.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on June 05, 2016, 06:18:03 am
Compiling is not that hard, and definitely opens up some nice options, even if only to tailor the game to what you like. I use Meridian's version, but the advanced scanner from OXHA and some of my own tweaks (ex.: I just finished re-adding reactions to the list of shown stats and moving the ammo around so it's not in the way of the long-ish list of stats).

Meridian: I noticed a lot of weird empty space in the inventory "floor loot pile" of the new version when equipping gals on the Bonny. The althrithm seems to pack the first "page" really well, the a few gaps in the 2nd, and a lot of empty in the 3rd.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on June 06, 2016, 01:58:35 am
I am still using Fuso Knives for close range work. In fact, I don't see how they could completely drop off my inventory. Little, especially as easily accessible, beats ~1% of throwing^2 once throwing is 70+ (ie 49+ damage), especially since that's also more than 100% accuracy! But I'm not here to say they're too good (although I think they were balanced for a version of Piratez where 70+ throwing was MUCH harder to achieve than now.. let alone 90+). The knives made me think about throwing weapons in general.

Ninja Stars, Fuso Knives and Javelins all have a maximum range. Either they work 100% or they don't. Which seems odd. For some reason, I often find myself in situations where, if the enemy were one tile close, I'd destroy them with a few 100% snapshots of 50+ damage, but since they are one tile too far, I can't do anything. Most weapons have accuracy drop offs so the transition is smoother, but not these. It'd even make sense to have the current ridiculous accuracies you can get off 70+ throwing skill: You can hit better further!

But.. since these weapons are really good (well, actually.. only the knives are) and I am suggesting to buff them further, we need to consider some balance. And here comes another function of OXCE that, to my knowledge, is little used: Range based power decrease. Yup, you can hit a fly on the head half the map away, but air drag slowed down the knife so much that the fly shrugs it off... So I'd suggest:

1 - Change maxRange to aimRange and add a snapRange which is a bit lower
2 - Add accuracy dropoff of 5%/tile
3 - Add power dropoff of ... well I don't know.. since I don't understand how OXCE does it. It says: "power RangeReduction: 0.0 #how much power a bullet loses per tile". So that's an absolute number? Or a %? In other words, if I set it to 1, is the weapon loosing: 100%/tile? 1 damage/tile? 1% per tile? Either way, I think something like 5-10%/tile, depending on weapons, would work pretty well. Given #2, it would still be possible to hit more than the current range, but the weapon would stop being good (drop to 50% of damage) at about 10-5 tiles beyond the effective range, regardless of the owner's skill.

As a balance factor for bows (which scale WAY too well compared to guns), something similar could be good too.

Edit: Another thing that bugs me: Bladed weapons and added armors. For the cutlass, it makes sense to get increased armor affect since it is a slashing weapon, however, longswords should fare better since they are able to stab and there are techniques to deal with an armored opponent when using them (they are weapons of the knight era, not of gunfire and low armor like the cutlass) and techblades, being a further development, should suffer even less. For a cutlass at +20% armor, I'd suggest +10% for longswords and 5% for techblades.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on June 06, 2016, 09:58:28 am
Even in the knight era longswords were not made to fight properly armoured foes. If you are up against a guy in plate, you'd use a warhammer or a mace or a polearm if at all possible. I think + armour makes sense, as it is still mainly a slashing weapon, it is not a weapon specialising in anti armour warfare.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 06, 2016, 10:05:58 am
Meridian: I noticed a lot of weird empty space in the inventory "floor loot pile" of the new version when equipping gals on the Bonny. The althrithm seems to pack the first "page" really well, the a few gaps in the 2nd, and a lot of empty in the 3rd.

I don't see anything like that.
Can you give me a save, a screenshot and a few steps to reproduce?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on June 06, 2016, 07:04:24 pm
Even in the knight era longswords were not made to fight properly armoured foes. If you are up against a guy in plate, you'd use a warhammer or a mace or a polearm if at all possible. I think + armour makes sense, as it is still mainly a slashing weapon, it is not a weapon specialising in anti armour warfare.

I am well aware of other weapons being better against armor. I suggested the spiked mace in the first place just for that. My point is not that a longsword is an anti-armor weapon, but that it is better at dealing with armor than a cutlass, whereas the current implementation makes it worse.

I don't see anything like that.
Can you give me a save, a screenshot and a few steps to reproduce?

I've attached a (quick) save and screenshots of my inventory. Just go in the first base and check the equipment on the thunderhorse there. I'll check my compilation as well, in case my few tweaks are messing something up, but the only thing I touched in the inventory is display stats..

Thanks for checking!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 06, 2016, 07:26:23 pm
It looks fine when I open it.

HOWEVER, after clicking on the "show next page" button for a longer time, every now and then I also get some weird display with lots of empty space... maybe once in 20 scrolls.

I don't see any obvious issue with the code, I'll ask Stian... maybe I am putting the filtering in the wrong place.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on June 06, 2016, 08:00:21 pm
That's weird... I am using old/crappy computers (8 years old laptop and.. acer notebook), maybe it could be a memory thing? I run out of memory from step 1, I always have the issue. You only run out after a while?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 15, 2016, 08:45:34 pm
Should be fixed now.

Also added quick search to Transfers UI.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on June 16, 2016, 06:24:16 am
I had an idea while at work, the starting tech doesn't really have a sniper gun, and there is an option: the long rifle, a rifled muzzle loader, compared to the other options it's very accurate, but it requires a special touch when reloading, so longer reload, it is very long, so it's heavier, as a sniper it would have to only have aimed shot and would take a lot of TU to fire.  I don't know if it should have bonus damage from accuracy, but if it's accurate enough, the 29 damage that the flintlock balls do is likely to work well enough.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 16, 2016, 01:26:58 pm
Good idea with that. Damage bonus is tied to ammo, so either it uses flintlock balls or it has custom ammo; I can't circumvent that. I'd lean towards custom ammo, so it's a single shot only but more powerful weapon. Of course an 'improved' musket isn't a bad idea either, but you have the hunting rifle for that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 16, 2016, 03:32:19 pm
Good idea with that. Damage bonus is tied to ammo, so either it uses flintlock balls or it has custom ammo; I can't circumvent that. I'd lean towards custom ammo, so it's a single shot only but more powerful weapon. Of course an 'improved' musket isn't a bad idea either, but you have the hunting rifle for that.

Cool!  The Minie Ball (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mini%C3%A9_ball) is the perfect round for the "Sharpes Rifled Musket"... say, range 30,  30 damage with .1 Accuracy damage bonus. :)

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fc/Minie_Balls.jpg/220px-Minie_Balls.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on June 17, 2016, 01:17:16 am
Cool, unfortunately I am absolute crap at coding or art stuffs, so I can't really help design the look or whatever might be useful, but I'm happy to hear it is a good idea.

Another possible idea: how hard do you think it would be to allow more than one craft to land at a location? especially for when you only have small ships and would really benefit from a lot of warm bodies in the next mission?  I assume there are multiple possible landing locations in the map, and it could be fun to have two ships in different corners or something like that.  How much would this idea change the game strategies?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2016, 02:09:04 am
Cool, unfortunately I am absolute crap at coding or art stuffs, so I can't really help design the look or whatever might be useful, but I'm happy to hear it is a good idea.

d/w I have some art already, not great but would do.

Another possible idea: how hard do you think it would be to allow more than one craft to land at a location?

Impossible in OXCom. Any ways, I'll be cutting the size of ships anyway (with the wealth of arming options, and the obvious fact that large deployments favor the player, 40 pirates in a mission is way over the top); any crafts of 15+ size will be shrunk.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on June 17, 2016, 10:48:56 am
Well 40 pirates is indeed a lot, but shrinking everything sounds disappointing.. I love big teams with gals that have multiple different roles.

The smaller the team, the more restricted you are in your arming options: you only pick the best all-rounder for a given role since you don't have the numbers to afford bringing the sometimes awesome bit generally not great weapons.

It also goes against my vision of the piratez: you are low tech but like most people with nothing to lose, lives are cheap. If you are outnumbered and out-teched, then you should lose.

What I could see, however, is a shift from ships that can do everything (the Bonny and thunderhorse are pretty decent interceptors and large transports) to a bigger divide between crafts. Either you have good interception (4 weapons) or good transport capacity, not both. I'd happily lose the transports' ability to intercept to make more space for interceptors, and even make larger transport slower or get worst mileage. Having to chose either blowing up with an interceptor and then landing with a transport or taking a quick smaller craft and get there in time for the landing. That would remove some of the landing farming, except for some entry level missions that could be left landing longer (and are easy enough with a small team any ways).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on June 17, 2016, 02:58:57 pm
I tend to disagree on the limited number of gals forcing me to use best all-rounder weapons - I think it creates a difficult choice, yes, but meaningful in that it makes me pick the weapons I need for the specific mission.  For example, I tend to assault landed supply ships with only the eight gals I can fit on the Pachyderm, each with a well-defined niche roll.  Up to four sniper/artillery weapons to clear the field, a melee scout or two for quickly silencing the baby nukers, and some heavier armor plus SMGs + shotguns for the boarding.  I feel that rifles, one of my go-to all-rounder options for pogroms, have little place on that mission, especially when power armor may be in the mix. 

I also don't think that having expendable gals means not bringing the awesome weapons - on the contrary, they can be the perfect testing bed for that new melee weapon or gun, and if they survive, they get put on the less expendable team due to stat gains.  With a endless supply of swabbie uber-mutants, you have plenty of room for heroes toting the strangest and most effective weapons you can muster.  In my view, with a smaller team you can't afford not bringing the big guns.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Zharkov on June 17, 2016, 05:02:18 pm
Well, I think that depends on whether you are planning to reduce map size, too. A smaller force might make the battlescape more intense, but I fear that on larger maps it will become even more tedious to catch that last evasive enemy...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 17, 2016, 06:06:27 pm
Reduce what map sizes? There are no maps in Piratez that cannot be completely overwhelmed with 18 gals, with the exception of Mansion, which disallows the biggest crafts anyway.
Meridian's LP shows that 18 is more than enough for almost everything, hence - there is little incentive to get bigger transport ships, unless you plan to use a lot of tanks. 40 is way over the top. My concern is that the very mechanics of XCom make such huge deployments not only very hard to manage, but also very overpowering - with each extra soldier, the player gets an extra cog to construct a war machine from; the AI always operates without any coordination. Hence, with the increase in soldiers, the player gets an exponential advantage that can be only countered with ludicrously powerful AI units.
Another factor is, that no-one will be using all the planned novelty crafts (with the soldier capacity of about 10 to 16), if they can deploy 40 troops by the means of Leviathan. I'd prefer a more gradual progression - Bonaventura gives a huge squad size increase over Pachyderm (8 to 18); it'd be very attractive even if the increase was less drastic.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 17, 2016, 06:18:27 pm
Meridian's LP shows that 18 is more than enough for almost everything, ...

I thought that might have been the case ;)

When we consider beginners vs. veterans, I think veterans can handle anything with 18 soldiers and beginners would only have more losses (grenade magnets, etc.) with more soldiers anyway.

As for different playing styles... hard to say... maybe somebody really needs more soldiers.
Speaking for myself, I'm good even with 14-16.

As for the game progression, I really have no reason to switch from Bonaventura to anything else... yet. It may happen that I skip everything and jump straight to Avenger and go to Mars.
So, I do support the decision to start with small crews and make player work hard and invest time, research, money etc. to get to better crafts. Otherwise the motivation to upgrade (other than curiosity) is very small.

As for interceptors, I also have some ideas, but I will share them later, so that you don't implement them too quickly :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 17, 2016, 08:26:20 pm
My random two cents since I have not read anything:

I got my ass kicked by the Ratmen Rodeo; first mission out of the base.

I didn't take it too seriously (I'm hyper aggressive) but wow, gals felt really delicate and only six, ouch. Oh well, more meat for the meatgrinder!

edit: Just did another quick start... wow, what changed? Early game is significantly nerfed... barely made it through the first month (couldn't catch ANYTHING - all civvie vehicles - all the spawned missions were way outside the range of the Airbus - and then a mutant pogrom with six gals? Yikes...). Second month I catch up to a landed Raider ship... didn't even kill one and then promptly got exploded. I'm actually pretty turned off from this... basically watched the sun rise/set the first month (huge negative score and lost protection money) and then TPK on first mission.

Wow.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on June 17, 2016, 08:37:38 pm
Im for smaller craft capacity in most cases. Something large(25-28) still needs to be around to face battleship and other very large craft because of the sheer volume of foes. Having some extra bodies eally helps if there are more then say 40 foes on landing/crash maps which tend to be quite small. If the enemy craft occupies more then say a third of the map you tend have to clear the LZ and setup covering the craft at the same time on the first few turns because of the the high possibility of foes merely walking out a craft hatch and unloading a hvy weapon into open door of your ship

Around 16-20 seems to be ideal size depending on squad composition. The more gals you bring with inbuilt roles the more gals you tend to use. Very few of the "specialty" armors are suited to anything beyond there specific job because of the armor stats or lack of inventory/hand space. These specialty units are great to have but are not directly able to handle threats like a normal gal.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 18, 2016, 01:07:58 am
I only recently started playing again with version 99, and I don't know why but I really like how one of the portraits (The white haired one with red eyes, one of the newer designed ones) appears to have an arm tattoo that's preserved in all armors. And looking at a few more, some have necklaces that are preserved across all armors.

Given the "Default" armor now appears to be tribal, it feels kinda fitting and flavorful. But it makes me wonder, is there any intention to further diversify some of the portraits like this? Maybe inking up a few others or other little traits that can be different per portrait? It's a small thing in this case but it does add a lot more individuality.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bloax on June 18, 2016, 04:12:50 am
If you give me stuff to rip off (or, indeed, just simple edits and descriptions of what you want, because I've more or less hit a creative wall at this point o_O) then I can add it to the inevitable hit list of Things To Do.

I've been more or less in a productivity coma this past month, but it should clear out soon now that I barely have any exams left now.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 18, 2016, 04:26:47 am
I only recently started playing again with version 99, and I don't know why but I really like how one of the portraits (The white haired one with red eyes, one of the newer designed ones) appears to have an arm tattoo that's preserved in all armors. And looking at a few more, some have necklaces that are preserved across all armors.

Given the "Default" armor now appears to be tribal, it feels kinda fitting and flavorful. But it makes me wonder, is there any intention to further diversify some of the portraits like this? Maybe inking up a few others or other little traits that can be different per portrait? It's a small thing in this case but it does add a lot more individuality.

Thanks for that! The main problem with such upgrades/making new portraits is that it takes many, many hours of gruelling work to introduce changes all across the whole armor spectrum, which is somewhere around 70-ish atm (including six armors from supported mods - alt tac, alt smokey, naughty).
Sure some of the older ones beg for a facelift and adding some decorations, although I want to keep the latter to the minimum (there will be a special outfit with extra jewelry for everyone, might also be used as base for Seductress upgrade).
Also the white haired/red eyes model is actually a character I've once rendered in Poser and 2 years ago used as base for all pirate dolls :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 18, 2016, 05:18:36 am
Well I understand it's a lot of work, it's just a general suggestion! Like something to maybe be done alongside an art cleanup or something. Nothing super mega turbo important or anything. Just seems adding some jewelry or tattoos or scars or something to some of the portraits may help add a little flavor to them. At the moment touching up some of the older heads is definitely more of a priory I think, though still minor. They do have a sort of charm to them anyway after all.

And yeah, there's just something nice about that portrait, somehow she seems to be one of my better pirates this run. Stunned a church priest with ol revolver bullets on one job, killed 3 dudes with a cutlass in one turn in another.

Another minor art based question I have is the UAC carbine, it seems a bit... Off compared to the other doom weapons? Not exactly as close a representation... If I could recommend a replacement, can I offer this?

(https://i.imgur.com/cSPLuvK.png)

This is the representation the rifle has in several mods, such as brutal doom and Doom Rougelike arsenal. I feel it's a lot closer in style.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on June 18, 2016, 11:10:16 am
The UAC carbine is used by others as well though. I also think the rifle doesn't look like one that is Rio be used with the very basic SMG mags.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 18, 2016, 03:32:15 pm
UAC carbine was properly shitty in DOOM, so the HSMG ammo is fine, however, this sprite Gunner-chan sent, while nice and canonic, is simply too big IMO - it looks like a powerful weapon, completely filling its 1x3 slot. (and I don't feel like redrawing atm :3 )... I'll think about it...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 18, 2016, 05:32:56 pm
Well if it's too large, how about this one I made an attempt to edit? Slimmer and has a recolored spraygun magazine.

(https://i.imgur.com/nh6HjPn.png)

I'm no artist but hey wont learn if you don't try right?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 18, 2016, 10:54:00 pm
I think my edit got overlooked but here goes:

Why was the early game changed to be immensely more brutal? I don't remember ever struggling so much before and basically getting wiped out by Ratmen or Raiders. Not to mention not having anything to do (other than research) the first month... I skipped a Pogrom because no way I'd be able to do with just 6...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 18, 2016, 11:14:49 pm
I think my edit got overlooked but here goes:

Why was the early game changed to be immensely more brutal? I don't remember ever struggling so much before and basically getting wiped out by Ratmen or Raiders. Not to mention not having anything to do (other than research) the first month... I skipped a Pogrom because no way I'd be able to do with just 6...

I don't think the game got more difficult, but you need to get adjusted to it, which takes a while. Less gals means of course simpler combat (though not easier), but the Geoscape is more forgiving. The early missions also are easier than facing a bunch of guys in personal armour.
I think the problem with the early missions, and especially Ratmen, is that it's easy to underestimate them. And it'll hurt a lot.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on June 19, 2016, 03:19:48 am
Ratmen are actually quite the nasty foe with the new start. Before they where much less of a threat because you outclassed there weapons almost right from the get go. Now they are actually better then early gals in terms of potential dmg. They are still pretty frail compared to the gals but getting the hits to kill them has become more difficult.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 19, 2016, 04:01:25 am
It's mostly how quick they are that makes them annoying, running a fresh girl in front of a rat is a good way to get shot at. They lose a lot of their bite after you can bring shotguns to the villages though. The newest pirate has a better than average chance of dropping a rat even with a domestic shotgun.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 19, 2016, 05:59:33 am
Yeah, they have good reactions and their weapons aren't as primitive as you'd thought. But the greatest danger are dogs.
But remember how it was in the early days of Piratez? Your average starting enemy was wearing personal armour and shooting at you with heavy cannon/laser rifle. Sure, you had 18 gals, but it was still way harder in my opinion.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Blank on June 19, 2016, 06:01:43 am
I think it's the map personally, facing ratmen on a completely flat field would be a completely different affair. Probably involving Napoleonic  musket squares.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on June 20, 2016, 09:24:56 pm
Just did another quick start... wow, what changed? Early game is significantly nerfed... barely made it through the first month (couldn't catch ANYTHING - all civvie vehicles - all the spawned missions were way outside the range of the Airbus - and then a mutant pogrom with six gals? Yikes...). Second month I catch up to a landed Raider ship... didn't even kill one and then promptly got exploded. I'm actually pretty turned off from this... basically watched the sun rise/set the first month (huge negative score and lost protection money) and then TPK on first mission.

Wow.

Are you gonna stream your adventures? I'm missing it...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 20, 2016, 10:32:37 pm
My random two cents since I have not read anything:

I got my ass kicked by the Ratmen Rodeo; first mission out of the base.

I didn't take it too seriously (I'm hyper aggressive) but wow, gals felt really delicate and only six, ouch. Oh well, more meat for the meatgrinder!

edit: Just did another quick start... wow, what changed? Early game is significantly nerfed... barely made it through the first month (couldn't catch ANYTHING - all civvie vehicles - all the spawned missions were way outside the range of the Airbus - and then a mutant pogrom with six gals? Yikes...). Second month I catch up to a landed Raider ship... didn't even kill one and then promptly got exploded. I'm actually pretty turned off from this... basically watched the sun rise/set the first month (huge negative score and lost protection money) and then TPK on first mission.

Wow.

Hey Draco!  I don't think its intended for the game to be super hard in the beginning, with .99.   I was able to clear the early missions without much trouble, (no more than 20-30% losses per mission)... ie. Ratman Rodeos... etc.   

And yeah, the Airbus' short legs makes it really suck.  I missed about a missions a month the first 3-4 months due to its limited range.  It made me wonder if a Central Asia start might not be the best as your limited range would have a greater chance of covering more land mass that way.

Hunting Bows are great for these early battles imo.  Hide behind the Airbus and lob arrows over the top. :)

I don't think its possible at all to avoid a big negative score in the first month (and maybe a couple after that).

My big break came in the enemy's Base building wave that came in month two. I tackled a gunship with heavy losses but a nice haul of captured gauss.  Then I threw two crews at enemy Frigates capturing two of them. (The nice thing about the Frigate, was the Trader crews didn't have any Power Armor troops).  With the sales of these three craft I boosted to about 10 million, and I expanded out the base enough to handle my full complement of 15 brainers.  I think with these gals cranking through techs I'm safe from those big negative point hits.

Also, I think Mutant Pogroms are delayed until after you research Mutant Alliance, so it might be worth putting those off early.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DracoGriffin on June 20, 2016, 11:45:48 pm
Are you gonna stream your adventures? I'm missing it...

I was definitely preparing for it (especially now that I can have a higher quality stream instead of playing in ultra mini mode) but honestly, I'm not sure how to approach the early game like this (at least before I could expect 2-4 losses in a huge squad, but 4-6 losses in a squad of 6 is... not great).

Hey Draco!  I don't think its intended for the game to be super hard in the beginning, with .99.   I was able to clear the early missions without much trouble, (no more than 20-30% losses per mission)... ie. Ratman Rodeos... etc.   

Also, I think Mutant Pogroms are delayed until after you research Mutant Alliance, so it might be worth putting those off early.

Haven't had the same luck, my loss rate is 80-100% :P. And I had a Mutant Pogrom in the first month, and I barely touched the research tree (definitely didn't do Mutant Alliance). Perhaps the score is only considered when you do that research but the missions still happen?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 20, 2016, 11:53:44 pm
The score is supposedly not affected, and it looks like it shouldn't be. But in actual practice for me sometimes the score takes a massive hit out of nowhere.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 21, 2016, 12:08:00 am
Idk, I've made about 3 test plays on the latest version (up to about eight-ninth month) and never had a negative score (although it's normal to be just on the verge). Adding about 1-2 extra early missions should completely solve that problem.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 21, 2016, 12:12:59 am
Inactivity maybe then? Maybe I just got in a bad habit of waiting for missions to pop instead of following ships a few months in. I just thought it was weird since in my own game I got a first month score of -300, then a second month of -1200, then it was 200 the month after. Very weird
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on June 21, 2016, 05:30:33 am
something....odd at the very least is going on. I started a new run to see how the early game was as a break from the helleurium capsule grind. And several abortions later(woot relearning) a pattern of huge negative score spikes is occurring in about 1/4 of starts. It not actually a serious danger to the player as its not happening months in a row but its...weird.

The only things i know of with that much negative score are peacekeeping, conversion, secret bases and pogroms. Pogroms shouldn't be scoring and the others need multiple occurrences to get the values of between -1200 to -1500 that i have seen. And thats after 300ish positive points. I don't know what the techs are worth so more positive points.

The best i can figure is occurring is that its chain conversion missions which i have seen alot of in my late game campaign. Every 8-10 months i get between 3-8 conversions back to back.

For that matter there are big streaks of other types of normally generated missions. Big batches of excavators and imperial probes are pretty common.

This feels like "poor" randomization coding to me. I mean i dont have a sufficient sample size to prove it but the streak tendency is worrisome.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on June 21, 2016, 08:33:36 am
I got a score like that after three missions of around 300 points each, end of month I was at -1500. I don't have the skill to check it out, and decided to just restart, but I do have a save that is only a few days before the month end, if that could help, it's already negative. My second run didn't have the negative spike, at least not the first month.

In an earlier game I got an endless stream of temple ships, do those succeeding have score to cause this sort of thing?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Gunner-chan on June 21, 2016, 08:45:39 am
I checked my save, very closely, apparently a base went up super early and that was likely causing the cascading point drain to a lose I couldn't prevent at all. That would explain it... Though I don't know if it's a misconfiguration or a freak accident.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 21, 2016, 02:05:49 pm
Hmm... the only solution of conversion/base building appearing early would be disabling the vanilla missions early-on (custom-tailoring is too work-sensitive)... and replacing them with a smaller list of missions (surveys, raids, extractors etc.) that only later switches to the full list.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: karadoc on June 21, 2016, 02:25:41 pm
I got a negative score once in my current playthrough. It didn't bother me much. Certainly it didn't bother me as much as in the next month, when a country adopted the zero-tolerance policy. :(

I don't think you need to add more early-game missions.

Actually, I'm wondering if maybe the early game missions open up too many research options. In my current game, I still haven't got the Bonaventura; but I do have some pretty advanced tech, and a seemingly endless amount of research opportunities. From early missions and landings, I've got guild and academy engineers, guild rep, church matron, and stacks of different low ranking captures. I even managed to capture an ESPer who happened to be standing right outside my ship at the start of a progrom. I've seen cruisers land - but decided not to try to take them on yet. I'm starting to think that I could probably win the game without ever shooting down a single ship!

Maybe that's all fine; but I'm not deliberately trying to play the no-shooting-down-ships strategy. It's just happening because all these other resources are presenting themselves to me. And I'm a bit worried that I'll leap-frog over most of the air game by getting advanced ship tech before I get basic ship tech.

As I said, I still don't have the Bonnie, and I'm not sure what I need to research to get it. I can however research fighter construction and heavy attack craft... so I don't have a shortage of ships as such.

[edit]
To clarify, I'm not trying to suggest that something should be changed. I'm just sharing my thoughts and experiences. I'm not dissatisfied with how my playthrough is going, and I expect that other playthrough will be different and interesting in other ways.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: karadoc on June 21, 2016, 02:29:58 pm
I am adding [search] to:
- new research
- new manufacture
- ufopedia
- stores
- buy/purchase
- sell/sack
- equip craft
- inventory
- maybe memorial ?

Did I forget something?
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but search is missing from transfer between bases. ("ship")
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Bloax on June 21, 2016, 03:57:01 pm
Yeah, he noticed and fixed that later.
Nicely spotted though.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 21, 2016, 04:43:18 pm
I'm not sure if this has been mentioned, but search is missing from transfer between bases. ("ship")

As Bloax mentioned, its available in his latest executable build here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html
Down load the linked file in the first post and use it replace to the one in your OpenXcom_XPiratez folder.

@Dioxine:  If your intent is to give the player a "soft start", ie, let them play only the early game "easy" missions with the occasional landing, I would agree with disabling the vanilla missions. 
As an example, the Base Building wave can be a huge boost forward, due to a massive cash influx from captured ship parts.   This however, relies on these ships "landing" in the view of the initial small radar.  If the base goes in somewhere outside the range of detection, the Airbus is too near sighted to ever detect it and also too short legged to get to about half the globe.  Then that negative point drain is pretty much unavoidable.   
I'm not sure what other missions cause the same point drain, but I think your early mission design is intended to allow the player to slowly train the gals and keep the lights on with temple raids, rodeos, towers, warehouses, and science stations.  Beyond that, its going to be RNG that delivers landings within view.  And right now it kinda feels like RNG is really the primary factor in the early game.  Either you get a "Lucky" start, or an "Unlucky" one with negative points and stuff you can't see or can't reach.  (I caveat all of this by saying I've only played the early game once, with a Lucky start, but I'm also considering all of the other feedback I've heard on the forums. )
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 21, 2016, 05:09:06 pm
There is no 'lucky' w/o 'unlucky', it's a sad reality. If I want a player to be able to make a heist that's waaay above his current standing, it has to have bad consequences as well when the dice roll badly for him; all I can do is cushion the fall a bit, but hand-to-mouth existence proves a good challenge for bean-counters.
I can, however, push some of the more punishing missions to later months. Peacekeepings, Sway Govts, Secret Bases can be safely pushed back w/o hurting the 'super-lucky great heist' potential. Assaulting gunships or shrine ships with the starting crew borders on insanity, however this creates a challenge for the most hardcore players - the ceiling should always be very, very hard to get to :)
This approach won't save you from the predations of negative score, but will lessen the impact; a few new starting missions would help to mend it a bit further. It is important that score can be mended by research as well... which should be displayed more openly to the player.
The idea is to create an early yearning to get either Pachyderm (to gain global range, good speed and +2 troops) or Jetbike (to gain the ability to intercept, especially easy & safe civilian targets). Maybe I should add a very early-buyable ship with better range and speed than Airbus, at a cost of 1-2 troops, because airbus->pachyderm is already a quantum leap :).
This will probably be an Aircar, and also there will be (later) an Airtruck, slower than Airbus with 9-10 capacity (including unique 8-9 HWP capacity for budding beastmasters and necromancers [this will be a surprise]). This will make for a choice of 3 battery-powered (very low running costs) crafts.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 21, 2016, 05:24:28 pm
I think the "Air Car" idea is great.  If I could add one request: better radar.  Giving you a "patrol" craft with longer reach, before the pigeon similar to vanilla skyranger in terms of loiter time and detection.  With only 4 crew slots it makes it that much harder to even go after the "easy" missions. :)

Edit: Imagine that "Temple Raid" beyond Airbus range:  you really might go for the snatch and grab with only four crew members instead of clearing the map.  Same with Rodeos, and scorps, etc.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 21, 2016, 05:36:21 pm
Radar craft will be yet another thing (someone proposed a biplane); good radars on the early aircars would be perhaps too much... Sure it forces the player to build moar hangars, but hangars aren't that expensive. Although upgrade from abysmal to poor radar is possible for the Aircar. The first couple of months aren't really a good place for radar crafts, as it'd allow far too early global reach (and make stationary radar bases a poor alternative). So I definitely agree with your suggestion for moar patrol possibilities, but we can't go overboard; stationary radars need to matter, and early base placement needs to matter as well (notice how new hideouts are the cheapest in remote, low-traffic areas) .
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2016, 05:36:46 pm
I think the "Air Car" idea is great.  If I could add one request: better radar.

Hmmm... Dragon raiders! :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on June 21, 2016, 08:13:20 pm
A HWP focused craft sounds interesting but its HARD to get them before a well tended barracks of gals renders them pointless.  My advanced campaign has single digits worth of hwp aside from the hordes of cyclopes since those things just dont die.

The fact that you have to STUN a terror unit WITHOUT WOUNDING to get half of them is....a pain in the ass to put it mildly. Even the mechanical ones that you dont have to stun for need a 2 to 1 ratio of killed analogues to build. Not counting the corpse lost to research.

By the time its "safe and easy" to get what you need to make them the gals are already better in every respect. Baring extreme good fortune.

There needs to be more easily attained HWPs to make a craft like this worthwhile.

Something needs to exist to bridge the gap between parrots and dogs and the tanks, converted cyberdisks and sectopods. 

 

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on June 21, 2016, 08:19:18 pm
There needs to be more easily attained HWPs to make a craft like this worthwhile.

Something needs to exist to bridge the gap between parrots and dogs and the tanks, converted cyberdisks and sectopods.

Hmm, that sounds like a looted academy drone... But would it be worthwhile? It's not very durable, has poor weapons and while it's a good scout, I think parrots are better...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on June 21, 2016, 08:21:58 pm
Soo bears! That shoot lasers from their eyes. 2x1 unit.
Also the armoured cars the bandie use.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Nygmus on June 21, 2016, 10:27:50 pm
Improved radar, perhaps not, but it would be very nice if the Aircar were able to at least intercept some landed traffic.

I'm pretty new to Piratez with 0.99, so take anything I say with a grain of salt. While I'm largely loving it, it's frustrating seeing so much air traffic that I barely bother attempting to intercept because the Airbus is too slow to follow most traffic to a landing site. The Pachyderm was a significant upgrade and I can finally start actually interdicting air traffic around my starting base, but that first few months were a bit of a drag and I nearly failed out of the campaign during one because of traffic outside of my area of control.

Having instant access (pending cost) to the basic craft in .98 certainly made things easier (an early Skyranger meant that I could stomp all over virtually any mission I sent it to), but I can't help but feel that the .99 early game went a bit too far the other way.

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on June 22, 2016, 12:51:22 am
Hmm, that sounds like a looted academy drone... But would it be worthwhile? It's not very durable, has poor weapons and while it's a good scout, I think parrots are better...

Overall worthwhile....maybe. The weapons not actually to bad if it was in player hands. The ai just tends to blow its wad on snap shots at extreme range because the drones have good reactions and vision. And yeah its nor super durable but 32 all round armor isn't nothing either. I mean how long are we stuck with 20 armor gals?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on June 22, 2016, 01:20:08 am
Hm... what are some realistic requirements for it... (The Early Drone HWP)
-Drone Wreck Examination
-Slave AI or Integrated Devices (would these put it out too far?)

With the Different Weapons Summaries completed, (Pistols, Shotguns, Rifles) you could create a platform that you could upgrade at each step. 
 Construction would require a wreck, some electronics, (slave ai, Integrated devices, etc) and a couple of the weapons (ie, 2 manstoppers, 2 Military Shotguns, 2 Assault Rifles, etc).

But with something like this would they be too delayed to be useful?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on June 22, 2016, 02:29:36 am
If it were based on Drone Wreck + Integrated, then the delaying feature I've found so far is the Drone Wreck...  because Integrated is fairly easy to get - the Medics/Researchers seem to occasionally carry personal computers that break down into IDs.

If it was based on Slave AI - that's a little trickier, since you're most often having to get a UFO one way or another to end up with them...

Which might be a bit of a cyclical delay, since you're not really seeing the Drone Wreck until a UFO anyway....  at least in my Experience.



BUT

Dioxine mentioned both Beastmasters and Necromancers as for the reason why...  I'm waiting to see more about that 'Surprise'...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on June 22, 2016, 07:17:51 am
I had two ideas today: the first is to have some sort of gyrojet (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gyrojet) weapon, based on a quick check on wikipedia  :) it would do its best damage at mid range, the gun would be light and probably easy to make, while the bullets possibly could be heavier and difficult to manufacture.

The second, for if we end up with aquatic missions is loosely related, I found out that there are guns designed for underwater use (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_firearm), they generally shoot flechettes.  Makes me wonder why X-Com went with spear guns and dart guns, as these appear to a bit superior.

Edit

Might have figured out the speargun thing, effective range apparently goes down the deeper you go with the underwater firearms.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Rince Wind on June 22, 2016, 12:06:58 pm
And the early Russian weapon was used around 2000, they might not have known about it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 22, 2016, 03:00:22 pm
From the wiki: "Versions of the Gyrojet that were tested were inaccurate, cumbersome, slow loading, and unreliable (at best, a 1% failure rate was suggested; users quote worse figures, with many rounds that misfired the first time but later fired)."

As for underwater weapons, yeah, but only after underwater missions are in :)

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DoktorV on June 22, 2016, 07:49:12 pm
The old flechette rounds were based on the best available engineering knowledge from the time. There's a new generation of underwater / trans-water ammunition, supercavitating rounds. They fire from conventional cases and I think they require no modification to the host weapon. I think effective range is in the several tens of meters underwater for the light rifle rounds and maybe 100m for the .50 BMG.

The really interesting thing is that they don't change direction when passing into our out of water, which means you can fire accurately from underwater at a target out of the water, assuming you correct for the refraction properly. That particular feature probably can't be captured in the game engine though :-P

So if you are going to have underwater missions, there are basically several tech levels of underwater shooting weaponry that work. In increasing order of required manufacturing sophistication, you've got crossbows and spearguns, then flechette rifles, then supercavitating rounds for conventional firearms. Could make for a decent amount of progression.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on June 23, 2016, 12:13:53 am
It also mentioned that the Gyrojet was rushed and it didn't look like the tech was really explored.  But honestly the only benefit here would be the extremely light guns, for your pansy swabbies, and that's only somewhat useful.

I'd like to see what we could do with the Gyrojet now, with a proper budget and time to work on it, but Piratez is not the place for that bit.  Flechette rounds though...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: karadoc on June 23, 2016, 02:45:33 pm
As Bloax mentioned, its available in his latest executable build here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.0.html
Down load the linked file in the first post and use it replace to the one in your OpenXcom_XPiratez folder.
Thanks for the tip. Done, and fixed. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Nygmus on June 23, 2016, 08:33:32 pm
Another thought presents itself.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me (based on what I've read of dev logs and such) that you originally started with the Bonaventura, and it was changed at some point to be the way it is?

It strikes me that, thematically (and for the benefit of new players to the mod unfamiliar with that history) it wouldn't hurt to have a research topic early on for the Menacing Hull. My first X-Piratez version was one where you didn't start with the ship, and if I hadn't read through Ufopaedia and other discussion topics so relentlessly I would have never known anything about it.

A research topic akin to Spring Cleaning would help to give a bit of story to the initial base and help to establish the Bonaventura as a major milestone goal for new players. It would also give the opportunity to give a bit of exposition as to what is needed to research toward the Bonaventura; suggesting that the player needs to capture a live pilot as part of that portion of the tech tree, for example, would be a useful early hint that other parts of the tech tree are similarly capture-locked.

Speaking which, I'm about to build her myself for the very first time, having managed to collect a set of Old Earth Books for the first time. Bit excited!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 23, 2016, 08:40:00 pm
You're right, it's just that arc is simply incomplete yet (there will be 5 variants to choose from, albeit you will be able to build only a single ship).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: GarlandSP on June 25, 2016, 12:09:02 am
There are people talking about the gyrojet pistol, there is a modern desing somewhat similar, advance design for our times though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFjGbOyd2ek

I think this could solve the problem of aquatic weapons.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: GarlandSP on June 25, 2016, 12:14:17 am
BTW: Pure alkaline metal, like sodium or potassium explode in contact with water, so i suggest changing standard ammo ( that contains gunpowder ) to sodium propelant.

Here is a video explaining, i suggest subscribing as its a great science channel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmlAYnFF_s8

Edit: in case of underwater combat like in TFTD.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on June 25, 2016, 06:17:08 am
I think this could solve the problem of aquatic weapons.

I didn't know there was any problem ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: LuigiWhatif on July 03, 2016, 12:59:12 am
Since the current ground missions seem like attack of opportunity assaults for your early crew, how about later researching replacement missions against tougher, higher value targets as you advance?  Something like a Church indoctrination facility with hypno devices/gold or a Guild recycling plant.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 03, 2016, 01:11:44 am
That's how it always been planned.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: LuigiWhatif on July 03, 2016, 11:36:33 am
Will the any of the new missions you have planned actually replace easier missions, or will they spawn in addition to them?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 03, 2016, 01:10:41 pm
Depends, some will appear in addition, some will replace.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Nygmus on July 04, 2016, 06:24:14 am
Speaking of which, when I went on my first megascorpion hunt, I totally expected to fight one or a few gigantic scorpions, not a ton of Australian scorpions.

Some sort of megafauna hunt would be neat, even if it was a Reaper hunt or something.

Or if you wanted to be a vile, disgusting piece of humanity, you could feasibly do a Chryssalid Cleanup mission...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on July 12, 2016, 02:41:45 am
I think we should be able to find and buy a box of assorted junk, which would be the buyable resource that gets us clothes, extract it to get some clothing and scraps of cloth that are only good for bandages and maybe some other bits and pieces of whatever.  Unfortunately, I suspect that it's not currently possible to have an extractable item give semi random stuff, but if that were possible, I'd love boxes of random junk that might have useful things in it, but is only guaranteed to have at least 1 bundle of clothes and at least 1 set of bandages.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on July 13, 2016, 12:12:54 am
You should be able to have cat-girl auxiliaries, either by enslaving them or buying them as mercenaries.

Also squires should be renamed to cabin boys as that's more pirate-y and more accurate. They're swabbing your decks, not training to be knights.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on July 21, 2016, 11:01:11 am
Quick search in the Inventory window improved by idea and implementation by Stian.

I made an extended search function for the ground inventory. The main difference is that it searches within an items' categories and loaded ammo for matches as well. Thereby it is possible to look up all items of a certain damage type, weapon type etc. I only enabled this extra feature for researched items though. It also skips searching by name on alien artifacts to reduce spoilers.

- Stian
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 25, 2016, 01:46:33 am
Please add a line of fire and arc designator which highlights blocked segments of the LoF/arc in red (unblocked segments might be green/black/other contrasting colour) so we can clearly see where we can and cannot throw/attack.

Also add an option to turn an LoS requirement on for VooDoo.

Add Goldman Sacks; the shadow banking faction which caves your skull in should you fail to repay your debts: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dm70-ymoTxOQhzzQjoOEm8Uzymhq2miLmpxuLjB4fG8

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on July 25, 2016, 10:37:36 am
Please add a line of fire and arc designator which highlights blocked segments of the LoF/arc in red (unblocked segments might be green/black/other contrasting colour) so we can clearly see where we can and cannot throw/attack.

I guess this is a request for me, in which case I reject it as "I don't like it".
Also, for throwing trajectory this would not even be possible as the game tries multiple trajectories (under different angles) before saying it's not possible (as far as I know)...

Also add an option to turn an LoS requirement on for VooDoo.

This is already easily moddable.
Dioxine said, he will not implement it as "he doesn't like it", but you're free to do it yourself: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3626.msg67514.html#msg67514

Add Goldman Sacks; the shadow banking faction which caves your skull in should you fail to repay your debts: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dm70-ymoTxOQhzzQjoOEm8Uzymhq2miLmpxuLjB4fG8

That's a request for Dioxine, I guess he read it already and will include it if it fits his plans with the lore.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 25, 2016, 10:41:18 am
I guess this is a request for me, in which case I reject it as "I don't like it".
Also, for throwing trajectory this would not even be possible as the game tries multiple trajectories (under different angles) before saying it's not possible (as far as I know)...

What's not to like about being able to determine line of fire precisely?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on July 25, 2016, 11:13:59 am
What's not to like about being able to determine line of fire precisely?

What's to like on random blocks being highlighted in red, green or black... it would look ugly as heck and break any and all immersion.
Or maybe I understand it wrong... do you have any screenshots/mockups to illustrate your idea?

EDIT: btw. it's the same reason why I rejected the "Advanced scanner" idea (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2391.0.html) ... and "Throwing radius preview" idea (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1532.0.html)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 25, 2016, 11:48:10 am
Blocks being highlighted?

I was more thinking a line being drawn; the line is green until it gets blocked by something, becoming red to the target point afterwords.

Also how many different angles does the game check for arcs?


Further both of those are great ideas; if your issue is the aesthetics, isn't it just a matter of getting better art?

Blocks being highlighted?

I was more thinking a line being drawn from the shooter to the target; the line is green until it gets blocked by something, becoming red to the target point afterwords.

Also how many different angles does the game check for arcs?


Further both of those are great ideas; if your issue is the aesthetics, isn't it just a matter of getting better art?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on July 25, 2016, 10:31:54 pm
What's not to like about being able to determine line of fire precisely?

I really hate it when the game says 100% but then you hit a tree branch.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 25, 2016, 11:15:35 pm
I really hate it when the game says 100% but then you hit a tree branch.

I think you're referring to another issue, which is about voxels and aiming algorithm. It also affects normal shooting.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 26, 2016, 02:28:27 am
Also, instead of having facilities be destroyed because they were cut off from the rest of the base, how bout replacing destroyed facilities with "Rubble" which has to be cleared before repairs are made, but still counts as connecting.

Yes please; either that or they get replaced with basic corridors.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 26, 2016, 05:40:58 am
Give Chryssalids acid/poison spit so they can deal with flying units.

This would not instazombify, though if it would kill a unit, it zombifies them instead (the venom is what causes the zombification). However, the resulting zombie would be sterile because it wasn't implanted with an egg.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on July 26, 2016, 06:28:30 am
Give Chryssalids acid/poison spit so they can deal with flying units.

This would not instazombify, though if it would kill a unit, it zombifies them instead (the venom is what causes the zombification). However, the resulting zombie would be sterile because it wasn't implanted with an egg.

This is already doable with modding. Feel free to do it and share with others.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2016, 06:31:37 am
I think hellrazor has something like that in his mod. The main problem I see is the likelihood that a chryssalid might spit on a target on the ground instead of attacking it in melee, which, although it might increase lethality in the short term, decreases the chances of an infestation. I think he solved it by having the spitting also zombify and impregnate the target.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 26, 2016, 07:12:18 am
This is already doable with modding. Feel free to do it and share with others.

I have no idea how to do this, nor to program the AI.


@ Arthanor: I was thinking that it would only spit at units it absolutely could not reach via pathfinding.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2016, 11:04:45 am
I have no idea how to do this, nor to program the AI.

This has nothing to do with the AI, since it already has subroutines to manage having a melee weapon and a ranged weapon. Otherwise Piratez units wouldn't be able to handle a pistol and a knife at the same time.

@ Arthanor: I was thinking that it would only spit at units it absolutely could not reach via pathfinding.

Now this is about the AI. :) It would have to be programmed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 26, 2016, 07:36:00 pm
Now this is about the AI. :) It would have to be programmed.

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on July 27, 2016, 07:03:37 am
Any way to get the Deliverator to spawn with at least one pizza?  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on July 27, 2016, 07:07:36 am
Any way to get the Deliverator to spawn with at least one pizza?  ;D

That depends...

...  Can you build it in 30 minutes or less?  :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on July 30, 2016, 03:19:12 pm
I think it would be a good idea if after interrogating a faction leader, or studying one you'd get an option to buy items from said faction for a high price.

Like 50K guerrila gear from the Spartan Lieutenant, 20/30K Rifles from the Spartans, 100K Laser guns from the church. Etc.

While some stuff can be made like integrated devices having the church sell them each for like 10K to you before the research option appears, or durathread mesh makes some sense.

Other items like the courier newspaper should be on the market as well since the white normal market undoubtedly sells it too.

While the main faction might not approve of such sales, individuals often times are motivated by greed if anything you could simply contract the mercenaries to buy the stuff for you to explain away why someone is selling you the items.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 30, 2016, 05:58:14 pm
Not a bad idea but needs to be thought over. Added to 'to-do' list.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: nrafield on July 30, 2016, 06:05:10 pm
Can we get Chryssalids as pets?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 30, 2016, 06:28:34 pm
Only sterile ones, because any zombies/new Chryssalids are hardcoded to be hostile. And this kinda defeats the whole point.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on July 30, 2016, 08:02:26 pm
I made a mistake of mind controlling lids in Xcom2 once.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 30, 2016, 09:06:13 pm
Reduce the frequency of Supply missions so this doesn't happen: https://i.imgur.com/PCR3FYm.png

Honestly, enemy Hideouts are way more valuable to me intact than destroyed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on July 30, 2016, 10:32:08 pm
Reduce the frequency of Supply missions so this doesn't happen: https://i.imgur.com/PCR3FYm.png

Honestly, enemy Hideouts are way more valuable to me intact than destroyed.
IRL that was the case too, attacking supply lines was always lucrative, That's why pirates IRL attacked shipping lanes, but often times not the forts.

Though IMO each base should only have like 1-3 ships visit a month per base, I normally ignore them but I think it's ok at current spawns. After all the supply ships often have nukes so if you're strong enough to beat the security why not?

Though I think a landed supply ship should have a different map, like the Siberia map because you know its a supply ship probably landing in a shipping zone of a hideout. Attacking a landed supply ship should be like a hideout attack mission.

The current supply ship map IMO should happen if you shoot it down on route to the base. Though don't think you could code it as such.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 30, 2016, 10:35:56 pm
IRL that was the case too, attacking supply lines was always lucrative, That's why pirates IRL attacked shipping lanes, but often times not the forts.

Though IMO each base should only have like 1-3 ships visit a month per base, I normally ignore them but I think it's ok at current spawns. After all the supply ships often have nukes so if you're strong enough to beat the security why not?

Though I think a landed supply ship should have a different map, like the Siberia map because you know its a supply ship probably landing in a shipping zone of a hideout. Attacking a landed supply ship should be like a hideout attack mission.

The current supply ship map IMO should happen if you shoot it down on route to the base. Though don't think you could code it as such.

Nukes aren't a problem with indirect fire (bows/grenades) and conservative play. Between that and the map size you often won't capture the ship before the self-destruct activates if there's a lot of LoS blockers/obstruction (hell, on terrible maps/at night I sometimes deliberately wait out the clock to make my life easier), but you still get plenty of loot in terms of the gauss weaponry and parts of the ship that remain.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on July 30, 2016, 10:44:53 pm
Nukes aren't a problem with indirect fire (bows/grenades) and conservative play. Between that and the map size you often won't capture the ship before the self-destruct activates if there's a lot of LoS blockers/obstruction (hell, on terrible maps/at night I sometimes deliberately wait out the clock to make my life easier), but you still get plenty of loot in terms of the gauss weaponry and parts of the ship that remain.
Easy access to Gauss from supply ships IMO is why they exist, so that when base defense comes you won't have it too hard. Though I agree using bows/nades makes it unlikely you'll get nuked.

But I don't mind losing a few gals xD, I think the current set up is fine, though more options are never a bad thing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on July 30, 2016, 10:48:05 pm
Reduce the frequency of Supply missions so this doesn't happen: https://i.imgur.com/PCR3FYm.png

I'm not sure what the problem is that you are trying to point out in the image? 

Are you frustrated that you were able to raid so many supply runs that you got so much cash?    I'd have no problem with that kind of bank roll.  The conqueror ain't cheap.

However, if it really bothers you, feel free to ignore the supply missions then.  That is what I have done for much of my current campaign.  I have two enemy bases available.  A trader base near my HQ, and a Merc base in Antarctica.  Most of the Trader supply missions have been at night, so I've freeing ignored them.  Merc Supply missions? yeah, no thanks. 

I do intend to farm the Trader base for some Guild masters, and may hit some more supply runs.  But the last supply ship I went after had the Bonny facing 6 enemy right out the door.  The only one with a Nuc was a Body Guard, looking right at me.  My knees were rubbery as I anticipated it wiping out my crew.  Fortunately I was able to coax a missed shot out of the nuke wielder with my Flappy Parrot.  Lots of smoke and some Seductresses helped with the other issues.  But generally, farming supply ships in Piratez is a far sight different than in vanilla. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 30, 2016, 10:52:50 pm
A big chunk of my cash is due to mass production of bikinis at my bases (the elaborate lingerie or whatever).

But the issue is that points and $$$ are too easy to get even on the hardest difficulty because there are so many supply missions and you can farm them safely with bows/grenades and mortars; the key to pass on the first turn if necessary, drop smoke and flares ASAP, note facings, and drop grenades on people that can retaliate against you (i.e. they're facing away, but might survive a bow hit then RF), and bows on those that cannot.

Yes you can self-handicap, but it's better that this not be abusable in the first place.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on July 30, 2016, 11:07:34 pm
A big chunk of my cash is due to mass production of bikinis at my bases (the elaborate lingerie or whatever).

But the issue is that points and $$$ are too easy to get even on the hardest difficulty because there are so many supply missions and you can farm them safely with bows/grenades and mortars; the key to pass on the first turn if necessary, drop smoke and flares ASAP, note facings, and drop grenades on people that can retaliate against you (i.e. they're facing away, but might survive a bow hit then RF), and bows on those that cannot.

Yes you can self-handicap, but it's better that this not be abusable in the first place.
IMO it's not really that abusable, factories IRL generate income. Though having base defense missions scale with the cash generated from said base would make more sense, bigger raid group against a more lucrative factory. Of course this being a game where you profit from more fighting would lead to some people just getting heaps of plasma weapons.

Xenonauts is probably the kind of game you'd enjoy where manufacture doesn't generate income.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 30, 2016, 11:09:04 pm
IMO it's not really that abusable, factories IRL generate income. Though having base defense missions scale with the cash generated from said base would make more sense, bigger raid group against a more lucrative factory. Of course this being a game where you profit from more fighting would lead to some people just getting heaps of plasma weapons.

Xenonauts is probably the kind of game you'd enjoy where manufacture doesn't generate income.

I'm not complaining about factories/production, I'm just noting that they are a massive contribution to my income.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 30, 2016, 11:18:55 pm
Though I think a landed supply ship should have a different map, like the Siberia map because you know its a supply ship probably landing in a shipping zone of a hideout. Attacking a landed supply ship should be like a hideout attack mission.

The current supply ship map IMO should happen if you shoot it down on route to the base.

This idea is so great it makes me salivate.
It would fix so many problems!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on July 30, 2016, 11:34:22 pm
I seem to recall discussion about different maps depending on craft status at one point. It was technically unfeasible because craft maps are determined by terrain at point of landing. The only maps specific to a situation are generated missions like mansions and Siberia with specific calls for given map types. Dynamic(craft) and generated maps don't mix.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 31, 2016, 12:28:17 am
The craft map would naturally be the same, but the terrain would be different. I mean a Supply Ship wouldn't land in the middle of nowhere, it lands on some sort of landing pads, I guess.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on July 31, 2016, 12:31:28 am
I seem to recall discussion about different maps depending on craft status at one point. It was technically unfeasible because craft maps are determined by terrain at point of landing. The only maps specific to a situation are generated missions like mansions and Siberia with specific calls for given map types. Dynamic(craft) and generated maps don't mix.
Supply craft could be like terror ones and generate a map on the instance, that can be chosen for interception.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on July 31, 2016, 04:15:04 am
It would be interesting maybe if the church launched retaliation missions against bases that manufacture too much Xgrog or something. Bootlegging is more fun when it's somehow illegal.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on July 31, 2016, 05:27:09 am
The craft map would naturally be the same, but the terrain would be different. I mean a Supply Ship wouldn't land in the middle of nowhere, it lands on some sort of landing pads, I guess.

The problem is that if you have tie a "enemy hideout entrance" map to the supply ship, that will also be the map when you shoot down the craft in the middle of nowhere, and that makes no sense. BetaSpectre's idea of making it behave like a terror mission is cool, you can have an "offload intercept" mission. But that also has the problem that there is no craft flying off after..

The ideal solution would be to be able to define a crash map (or not define it, and leave it up to globe texture) and a landed map (which in this case would be the hideout entrance). Then maybe even tie different deployment options to the different maps, to represent some crew from the hideout coming to help unloading.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 31, 2016, 07:27:40 am
Reduce the frequency of Supply missions so this doesn't happen: https://i.imgur.com/PCR3FYm.png

Meh, not even the highest score rank.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on July 31, 2016, 09:52:44 am
Meh, not even the highest score rank.

I guess I'll have to farm harder then; I may need a couple of more Hideouts.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 31, 2016, 10:11:37 am
The problem is that if you have tie a "enemy hideout entrance" map to the supply ship, that will also be the map when you shoot down the craft in the middle of nowhere, and that makes no sense. BetaSpectre's idea of making it behave like a terror mission is cool, you can have an "offload intercept" mission. But that also has the problem that there is no craft flying off after..

The ideal solution would be to be able to define a crash map (or not define it, and leave it up to globe texture) and a landed map (which in this case would be the hideout entrance). Then maybe even tie different deployment options to the different maps, to represent some crew from the hideout coming to help unloading.

Yes, that's exactly what I meant.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on July 31, 2016, 07:03:59 pm
This would require an option to define "crash map" and "landing map" if needed...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on July 31, 2016, 07:25:50 pm
This would require an option to define "crash map" and "landing map" if needed...

...on todo list.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 01, 2016, 09:07:47 pm
Some small suggestions:

- Give the Humanist Activists some torches for their progrom.
- Also other factions should carry appropriate light sources (at least some units of the lower ranks).
- Some (only a few) of the civilian vessels should land. This would increase the interaction with them during the early game. When I noticed, that they never land, they are just ignored for many months until you get an interceptor.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 01, 2016, 09:10:05 pm
Some small suggestions:

- Give the Humanist Activists some torches for their progrom.
- Also other factions should carry appropriate light sources (at least some units of the lower ranks).

The AI won't use such items, as of how it is coded now.

- Some (only a few) of the civilian vessels should land. This would increase the interaction with them during the early game. When I noticed, that they never land, they are just ignored for many months until you get an interceptor.

Not true, some of them do land. Also an interceptor is available from Day 1 now.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 01, 2016, 09:20:07 pm

Not true, some of them do land. Also an interceptor is available from Day 1 now.

 :o  the new aircar can be fitted with a weapon. I completely missed that. Cool!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 02, 2016, 09:07:58 pm
I would like to have the possibility of finding, looting, stealing, or even buying a treasure map, would lead to a mission where you have to fight other treasure hunters and most likely Deep Ones or Dark Ones who just happen to be in the area.  Maybe have a one in ten or whatever chance of there just not being any actual treasure, maybe it was a hoax, or maybe someone else got there first.

Best case scenario, you get the treasure and the loot from the other guys, worst still decent scenario, you just get the loot.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 09:11:00 pm
I would like to have the possibility of finding, looting, stealing, or even buying a treasure map, would lead to a mission where you have to fight other treasure hunters and most likely Deep Ones or Dark Ones who just happen to be in the area.  Maybe have a one in ten or whatever chance of there just not being any actual treasure, maybe it was a hoax, or maybe someone else got there first.

Best case scenario, you get the treasure and the loot from the other guys, worst still decent scenario, you just get the loot.

Yeah, it's a nice idea.

Maybe make it a two-part mission? The first part above, the second underground? I don't mean a huge map, maybe a 40x40 cave system with goodies.
I need an underground tileset for X-Com Files, so we can cooperate. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 02, 2016, 09:12:46 pm
Hey, how about a "sheriff" unit? Eg. Govt. sheriff? So wevall may sing, "i shot the sherif".

No troll post, sriously. A couple law enforcements units may add a bit of mood to the game :)

Edit: i agree with solarius hint, a bit of TFTD alike. Maybe in advanced raid missions?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 09:15:02 pm
Hey, how about a "sheriff" unit? Eg. Govt. sheriff? So wevall may sing, "i shot the sherif".

No troll post, sriously. A couple law enforcements units may add a bit of mood to the game :)

Well, it could be a variant of the Watchtower-like missions... But would you really play it? You get negative points for killing govt guys, for little gain. And besides, why would the piratez attack a sheriff office? It's not like you can get a free gal by freeing them... Sadly.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 02, 2016, 09:25:30 pm
You might be able to get Brainers and Runts though.  They'd need some way to show up on the battlescape though.  Maybe attacking a slaver camp?

Units I'm wondering about are the female Humanists and the legendary female Spartan who got past scout rank.  Oh, and Androids/Gynoids.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 02, 2016, 09:27:50 pm
You might be able to get Brainers and Runts though.

Can you?
No, seriously, can you? I'm pretty sure it's not possible.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 02, 2016, 09:31:15 pm
I don't know if it's possible, but they appear to be set as resources, not units, so seems probable to me, with my total lack of knowledge on the inner workings of this game :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 02, 2016, 09:54:53 pm
Well, it could be a variant of the Watchtower-like missions... But would you really play it? You get negative points for killing govt guys, for little gain. And besides, why would the piratez attack a sheriff office? It's not like you can get a free gal by freeing them... Sadly.

I knoe, but having these in the game does not necessairly means the player should kill them..besudes that lead to a potential interestin point..gain advantage for killing out corrupted officers (essenctially by accident)..player should not know where they are, bur may be a nuce random bonus to piratez fame?  Don't know well how to develop this but seems fascinating :)

Edit: typos
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 03, 2016, 04:36:34 am
It would be useful if we could see estimated travel time for our vessels to get to whatever target we set, be it a waypoint, a pogrom, shipping, or whatever.  I don't know if this is actually possible, I know it was used in Xenonauts, though.

Another idea would be to have it state what time of day, dawn, day, evening, night, the target should be in when the vessel would get there.  This could allow for slightly better planning on what equipment to bring.

I do think both ideas would need to be behind a research wall, both would require better time keeping than a group of neobarbs would logically have easy access to.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2016, 05:30:22 am
Nah, keeping it hidden would be very cheap - after all, if you REALLY want to, it's trivial to do using a calculator (speeds are in Knots, which is - very roughly - 2 km/h). I just don't know if it's feasible to write such code, but hey - I don't use assault calcs in Heroes 3, but it's good there is such a feature :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on August 03, 2016, 05:33:26 am
Treasure maps could be implemented like the Siberia mission, a re searchable mission that only appears once next month each time you research the map.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 03, 2016, 06:43:12 am
Mostly I don't care about the range or how long it would take to get there, My interest is the estimated time of day... and weather...

How badly could we mess with our 'heroes' with weather?   Now this I know would likely be extremely difficult to code, I leave it to actual coders to determine if it would actually be worth the time and effort or if it's even remotely desirable.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2016, 07:00:07 am
No extra code needed for that, just my old magic, weather would depend on texture... cold in arctic, hot in jungle... and by calculating time to get there, you will get the local time when you get there, righto? :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 03, 2016, 08:26:24 am
Having all shotgun using enemies run AP/slug munitions whenever possible would be for the best; scattershot is worthless.

Also, having scattershot deal concussive and/or stun damage that ignores a certain # and/or % of armour at close ranges might make it more worthwhile (i.e. the kinetic shock/impact/force transfer hurts even if the rounds don't penetrate). Namely, blocked piercing damage gets translated to Concussive and Stun that is then applied against resistances and ignores some portion of armour; the closer the target, the higher % of Piercing that gets translated to Concussive & Stun, and the more armour that's ignored.

Power armour is still going to be completely impervious to scattershot no matter the range, but tactical armour and even carapace armour will not be at close ranges, even if they do significantly reduce its lethality.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2016, 10:30:34 am
No extra code needed for that, just my old magic, weather would depend on texture... cold in arctic, hot in jungle... and by calculating time to get there, you will get the local time when you get there, righto? :)

I know it's doable with the current build, I did the same thing with underwater missions in XCF, but the amount of work is scaring me. You would have to make terrain-specific versions of all armours, right?

I wonder if it can be done on a more general level, per terrain or deployment. OK, I know it's not, but maybe it can be coded in...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: KateMicucci on August 03, 2016, 07:30:45 pm
Personally I would prefer no updates (like switching on and off different clothing) that require me to waste even more time rearranging inventory between missions than I already do.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 03, 2016, 07:35:55 pm
Personally I would prefer no updates (like switching on and off different clothing) that require me to waste even more time rearranging inventory between missions than I already do.

If Dioxine does it the way I think he does (and how I did it), then it would be completely undetectable for the player. It would be different armours in the ruleset, but you wouldn't see the difference they would look the same and the substitution would be automatic.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 07:43:29 pm
Personally I would prefer no updates (like switching on and off different clothing) that require me to waste even more time rearranging inventory between missions than I already do.

Yeah, I dislike even Mansion missions because of this.  Anytime I have to reset inventories, (Mansions, dealing with Mercs, Gaussing up for Supply/Base/Military Craft etc,) is often when I save and stop playing.  I come back to the game when I have the mindset and patience to do the change, then play the mission, then go back to my standard load out.

What I see these environmental penalties doing, is forcing the player to set up more diversified strike forces with their own craft.  Setting up an Arctic team based near the poles.  Maybe its just aircar, or airbus, with appropriate gear. Same for desert, etc.  I already considered doing this for a Mansion only team.

The other option would be to simply pass on missions in problematic environments, or preemptively shooting them down before they get there (making air engagements, possibly more important than before).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 03, 2016, 07:55:52 pm
Being able to save several gear profiles to each pirate (standard, mansion, arctic, desert, etc) as a quality of life implementation would fix this problem; that leaves only the armour swap to worry about which is much less onerous.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 03, 2016, 08:01:42 pm
Yup, being able to save several templates would be a huge QoL improvement. I think Meridian is looking into it?

Otherwise, once you get hyperwave decoders, it's easy to see if a target is going in the arctic/antarctic/north africa/etc and if you don't like polar or desert terrains, you shoot it down first.

Dedicated teams also makes sense. I haven't done that for mansions because those are tedious, so I take my best team in my biggest craft to try to alleviate the pain of going through all those floors. But I have an anti-mec squad (my psi-weak but otherwise good soldiers) with lasers and HEAT rounds, depending on how the environments are implemented, an "extreme environment team" could make sense too.

Talking about enviros, what happened to the space one? Just for cydonia? I'm still expectantly awaiting raids on space stations :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 08:09:12 pm
Being able to save several gear profiles to each pirate (standard, mansion, arctic, desert, etc) as a quality of life implementation would fix this problem; that leaves only the armour swap to worry about which is much less onerous.

I think Meridian has multiple Load Out profiles done already? With the FKeys, F1-F12, etc? 
I'm usually not smart enough/too lazy to use those, but I do agree that it might be handy for these.

@Arthanor, I'm pretty sure Space Station missions are still in the works, but are going to require a metric butt-ton of map work to be ready for primetime.  Dioxine has a RL project that is limiting his ability to crank out huge development on the mod, but hopefully will help him keep the power on this winter. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 03, 2016, 08:34:15 pm
I think Meridian has multiple Load Out profiles done already? With the FKeys, F1-F12, etc? 
I'm usually not smart enough/too lazy to use those, but I do agree that it might be handy for these.

Wait, what? Doesn't not using this feature (if it exists) kind of obviate the point/idea of being lazy?  ???


Speaking of the Mansion, would 8 gals be enough to handle them on the hardest difficulty without something broken like Ghost/Ragnarok armour, or are there way too many enemies? I sold the Bonaventura hull without knowing wtf it does/is used for (blind run) so I've basically been running a Pachy for the entire game thus far.


Also am I alone in my stance on scattershot?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2016, 08:50:04 pm
Talking about enviros, what happened to the space one?

Real life happened. I have no time to invest such amounts of work atm since I'm in a middle of a big (and well paid) assignment. I should have more free time from mid-September onwards.

As for Shotguns, extra code isn't worth it IMO. The topic has been beaten to death already, and really, fukk the shotguns (maybe except making the spread pattern less absurddly random). The starting ones are good for Rodeos, and that's enough for me.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 09:04:53 pm
Wait, what? Doesn't not using this feature (if it exists) kind of obviate the point/idea of being lazy?  ???

Actually, I just checked again, and it seems like something being worked on and not yet in the build: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4747.0.html

and yeah, there is Lazy, and there is LAZY.  As in, I'm in the latter category.

I usually go through and add necessities:  Smoke grenade (primed, on the leg or belt), bandage or Rum (for healing), handle or other close melee weapon, and a blackpowder/etc, on all the gals.  Then I try to match shooters, melee, and throwers to weapons.  This may involve changing out armors to enhance these fighters.  Once I've done that, I don't have real, "standard shooter build" etc.  Often these are different due to carrying capacity and armor available. 

So I haven't gone with Meridian's approach of making universal soldiers:  Everyone gets Defender Armor, an Autogun, a Sniper Rifle, A tech blade, and some grenades, with 3-4 archers as an alternate build.  My crews tend to be more diverse in the equipment deployed, so saving all of these different ones as templates hasn't made as much sense to me.

As far as the Mansion goes, a crew of 8 could do it as a snatch and grab.  Work your way to the treasure rooms and depart.  I would never try to sweep the hole thing with 8, unless you are Very Patient and have Loads of time.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 03, 2016, 09:24:48 pm
I heard someone cleared one with a jetbike, don't know difficulty or equipment loadout, though.  Or time taken.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 03, 2016, 09:43:40 pm
I bet on Plate Mail ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 03, 2016, 09:48:53 pm
You can take Plate Mail on Mansion raids?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 10:15:19 pm
You can take Plate Mail on Mansion raids?
um: nope.

maybe ghost or destructor/ragnarok.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 03, 2016, 10:40:32 pm
Any way to mark the items that are refilled after a mission?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 10:58:30 pm
Any way to mark the items that are refilled after a mission?

Or even those that need to be refilled? This could be great: esp in the black market:  Filter= "Recently Expended", etc.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 03, 2016, 11:01:55 pm
Would like to see Sonic weapons, all of which make those horrible bagpipe noises when they fire per the Celatid gun.

That's right; they literally kill you with weaponized bagpipe 'music': a force deadlier than even hot plasma.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 03, 2016, 11:20:17 pm
I'm pretty sure that there are some in there, by late game, though I haven't tried them:

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 03, 2016, 11:37:37 pm
Actually, the gals find bagpipes morale-boosting; they're an upgrade to the battle flag.  That guitar ivan posted is a further upgrade, so you can imagine your crew going on a rampage to the sounds of sweet, sweet guitar solos.  You could headcannon it as your gals channeling the sounds of bagpipes through their weapons to make them fire faster...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 03, 2016, 11:59:01 pm
Indoor locations to have some capacity to cut the lights, leaving the place with emergency lights.  Preferably without needing you to destroy an engine or other valuable salvage.  Because nothing beats hunting down panicking people with a chainsaw*.

Also, more indoor locations, I can think of only bases and maybe mansions that really qualify.

*does this make me a bad person?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 04, 2016, 01:15:58 am
Actually, the gals find bagpipes morale-boosting; they're an upgrade to the battle flag.  That guitar ivan posted is a further upgrade, so you can imagine your crew going on a rampage to the sounds of sweet, sweet guitar solos.  You could headcannon it as your gals channeling the sounds of bagpipes through their weapons to make them fire faster...

Maybe, but not when their music is horribly composed, synthesized and amplified/discharged at molecule shattering frequencies!

Honestly I really just find the idea of Sonic Cannons/Sonic Pulsars with bagpipe firing noises too hilarious to pass up, especially if they're a viable endgame weapon (which I imagine 130 damage to qualify it as).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 04, 2016, 02:10:33 am
Sounds like you're requesting a Gonnagle.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 04, 2016, 02:14:48 am
Haha, something like that.

Vuvuzela samples would also be acceptable.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 04, 2016, 03:21:20 am
Imagine the cacophony of a sonic grenade.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 04, 2016, 03:38:21 am
Imagine the cacophony of a sonic grenade.

Airhorns; airhorns everywhere. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQJcObz1k_E)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 04, 2016, 11:14:12 am
Yup, being able to save several templates would be a huge QoL improvement. I think Meridian is looking into it?

Almost done, I just want to make nicer GUI for it and it can be released.
I'm on holidays now tho, so other things have priority :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 04, 2016, 05:58:11 pm
You might be able to get Brainers and Runts though.

Can you?
No, seriously, can you? I'm pretty sure it's not possible.

I don't know if it's possible, but they appear to be set as resources, not units, so seems probable to me, with my total lack of knowledge on the inner workings of this game :)

It's not possible at the moment.
Scientists and engineers are not units, but they are also not items (resources), so they can't be recovered from a mission.

But I can add a few flags here and there and transform flagged civilian survivors into scientists, engineers or even parrots if you wish...

Would anyone be (seriously) interested?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 04, 2016, 06:29:18 pm
I will repeat what I have always said: it'd be great to have an option to manufacture soldiers (and, by extension, runts and brainers, if it can be done). If that's possible, recovery can be done through items (like the Experiment Victims), so no separate engine for recovery is really needed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Alucious on August 04, 2016, 09:41:41 pm
It's not possible at the moment.
Scientists and engineers are not units, but they are also not items (resources), so they can't be recovered from a mission.

But I can add a few flags here and there and transform flagged civilian survivors into scientists, engineers or even parrots if you wish...

Would anyone be (seriously) interested?

I certainly would! It kind of strains the "realism" of the setting for me that you can just walk into the local settlement and hire as many Brainers as you want for just cash (admittedly a lot of cash - lore-wise my rationale is that most of the initial hiring cost is finding such a smart person in the first place). If Brainers are such a valuable resource for settlements and factions, who out there is willing to sell unlimited supplies of them to our Gals?

What I'd really love is an ability to turn some captives (hire them? brainwash them?) into Brainers, similarly as to how you can turn captives into slaves right now. It would make sense for "smarter" captives to give you more brainpower for your base, so a captured Academy Engineer might turn into 2 Brainers while a Church Maiden might yield 1 Brainer. You might be able to turn this into an income stream like slaves - convert your captives to Brainers and make a little additional profit compared to just ransoming them.

Now I'm not altogether sure about how this would mesh with current game balance, as research speed past the early game is limited more by research buildings in your base instead of acquiring Brainers themselves. This might make the early game drag on a little more, and stress even more the desire to capture people alive instead of killing them.

EDIT: Maybe mid-to-lategame you might want to get a LOT of Brainers without having to capture them, and I think there could be a technology that enables that - maybe you research a contract with the Academy to buy Brainers from them? Or you could have some kind of brain-enhancing chip that when implanted into a Runt turns them into a Brainer?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 04, 2016, 10:17:03 pm
a captured Academy Engineer might turn into 2 Brainers

You don't live in a world with conservation of people? :o

Joking aside, I've always interpreted it as paying a huge fee to get someone smart from somewhere, the local black market just being your contact (that's why there's a delivery time.. most things aren't at the local market). You could increase the delivery further to represent how hard it is to acquire a brainer, but it doesn't really add all that much. You are right that midgame research is usually limited by buildings more than anything (either not having good buildings or not having enough base space to build those buildings in).

I fully support manufacturing soldiers/brainers/runts. I'd love to break a few people so they work for me, and I think it would be cool to break some raiders so their gals join us, and the guys can become HWP or new soldier types. Same for breaking some hybrids or even reticulans.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 04, 2016, 10:18:31 pm
Mortar needs to use less TUs (such that you can reload and fire on the same turn if you don't move) or deal more damage; as is Hellerium Grenades (and Smoke Grenades/Willy Pete; hell even Frags in most cases) are hands down better than this in pretty much every way; I've struggled to hew out a role for it, but it's just way too TU intensive and cumbersome for the utility you get.

Also I'm down for 'manufacturing' personnel from captives/slaves.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 04, 2016, 10:29:12 pm
Mortar needs to use less TUs (such that you can reload and fire on the same turn if you don't move) or deal more damage; as is Hellerium Grenades (and Smoke Grenades/Willy Pete; hell even Frags in most cases) are hands down better than this in pretty much every way; I've struggled to hew out a role for it, but it's just way too TU intensive and cumbersome for the utility you get.

Really?  I found it to be extremely useful, in fact one of pieces of gear I had in use the longest.  No need to worry about maximum range, hits almost always exactly on target, great damage for a non-hellerium weapon (one-shotting Marsec Bodyguards on a good roll), it's a beautiful piece of artillery.  It's a bit of a loss that you can't fire it every turn, but at least when you do fire it, anything less than power armor is pretty much dead.  It came with me to provide fire support on every supply ship raid I've done, because I use my less-trained gals just in case a nuke goes off.  Grenades require much more training, and even then don't always make it perfectly on target.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Alucious on August 04, 2016, 10:32:25 pm
You don't live in a world with conservation of people? :o

Haha! Maybe I should have been more precise - it would make sense for "smarter" npcs to contribute more to research than other ones. The Academy Engineer might be twice as productive as a normal Brainer for your research, but he would demand a larger salary as a result, and nicer accommodations in the barracks, etc. It makes sense to represent that him turning into two Brainers-worth as a way to represent that mechanically.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 04, 2016, 10:39:11 pm
Really?  I found it to be extremely useful, in fact one of pieces of gear I had in use the longest.  No need to worry about maximum range, hits almost always exactly on target, great damage for a non-hellerium weapon (one-shotting Marsec Bodyguards on a good roll), it's a beautiful piece of artillery.  It's a bit of a loss that you can't fire it every turn, but at least when you do fire it, anything less than power armor is pretty much dead.  It came with me to provide fire support on every supply ship raid I've done, because I use my less-trained gals just in case a nuke goes off.  Grenades require much more training, and even then don't always make it perfectly on target.

It's better for rookies yes (and TBH, even then grenades are situationally better at closer ranges); everyone else is better off tossing nades. Between the small inventory size, lower TU costs, comparable power, comparable range, pre-priming, low weight, and pin point accuracy once you get your throwing skill up, a mortar just can't compete with grenades on a trained gal. Hell, even on gals with mediocre throwing I prefer nades because I can easily chuck 2-3 in a turn if I need to.

Probably the biggest advantage mortars have is that the explosion/impact is same turn, but it's just not enough.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 04, 2016, 10:49:45 pm
I think it's plenty for early missions, it fills the indirect fire support role well until you can loot some hellerium grenades and train throwing.  I don't advocate using it as long as I did, but it works damn well when you need that early firepower.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 04, 2016, 10:59:50 pm
I will repeat what I have always said: it'd be great to have an option to manufacture soldiers (and, by extension, runts and brainers, if it can be done). If that's possible, recovery can be done through items (like the Experiment Victims), so no separate engine for recovery is really needed.

Recovery is easier to implement than manufacturing, but OK, I can do both.

Still, my tiny brain doesn't see the difference between buying a runt for $5000 and "manufacturing" a runt for $5000 :) What is the fundamental difference (that I am missing) that would make it useful for your modding needs? Best if you could give me one example of what you would do with it.

Btw. what should happen when during manufacturing (after it already started) you run out of available living space?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Starving Poet on August 05, 2016, 12:53:27 am
Hrm - I think in terms of sourcing brainers - I think it would be interesting if rescued civilians at the end of a pogrom were 'recovered'.   They could then be 'book learned' to turn them into brainers or runts or even gals.

It would add a scarcity of human mutant resources to the mix.   You could even out the scarcity by keeping them available to hire, but significantly increasing their purchase price.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 01:18:45 am
Still, my tiny brain doesn't see the difference between buying a runt for $5000 and "manufacturing" a runt for $5000 :) What is the fundamental difference (that I am missing) that would make it useful for your modding needs? Best if you could give me one example of what you would do with it.

Btw. what should happen when during manufacturing (after it already started) you run out of available living space?

Three main reasons:
1. You can manufacture from a finite resource, as opposed to buying infinite (and being constrained only with money).
2. You can introduce unique units that way.
3. That's a secret, but you will like it a lot ;)

Also that check should be before manufacturing (just like with craft manufacturing); and manufactured person should already count like occupying space (ditto).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 05, 2016, 01:47:41 am
I think it's plenty for early missions, it fills the indirect fire support role well until you can loot some hellerium grenades and train throwing.  I don't advocate using it as long as I did, but it works damn well when you need that early firepower.

I'll be honest, unless you're up against a particularly deadly enemy early on, or have no gals capable of cross-map lobs, even basic HEs are usually preferably because of the litany of advantages. Even the same turn detonation is a situational advantage because with grenades, one unit can prime, and another unit can toss, or the grenades can effectively be relayed around (which can help compensate for the range limitation on weaker gals).

More over, it would be nice to see mortars retain utility beyond what is a very narrow window of the game. Plasma/Hellerium, Poison Gas, Shrapnel (aoe cutting damage) and Chem rounds would all be cool, but I also think that the TU cost needs to enable a reload and fire from the ground for starters (assuming no movement other than turning).

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 05, 2016, 02:06:53 am
Balance-wise, for when you first get it, I think it's necessary to not allow multiple gals firing it in a single turn, otherwise you wouldn't ever use grenades at all, just bombard the hell out of the whole map by a crew of gals playing pass-the-mortar.  Remember, Dioxine's point of balance is not to make sitting behind a smoke wall and shelling out everything you see the most attractive option - the closer you get, the more fast-firing options you have.  At the point you get plasma and gas mortar shells, you don't really need to fire more than once every other turn - you flatten whatever you fired at, and it takes another turn to find anything worth firing at again.

I'm not arguing that the mortar is the optimal choice of fire support, but I find it worthwhile to use, even a little later in the game; it's a great situational-use weapon.  Anyways, you should want to move on from the mortar to something like the tornado rocket mortar, or tossing high explosive packs from your uber-trained ubers.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 05, 2016, 02:29:55 am
Balance-wise, for when you first get it, I think it's necessary to not allow multiple gals firing it in a single turn, otherwise you wouldn't ever use grenades at all, just bombard the hell out of the whole map by a crew of gals playing pass-the-mortar.  Remember, Dioxine's point of balance is not to make sitting behind a smoke wall and shelling out everything you see the most attractive option - the closer you get, the more fast-firing options you have.  At the point you get plasma and gas mortar shells, you don't really need to fire more than once every other turn - you flatten whatever you fired at, and it takes another turn to find anything worth firing at again.

That's not what I'm proposing though; what I'm saying is that the TU cost of firing should leave just enough TU to turn a couple of times, and reload the weapon; that doesn't permit you enough to afterwords either throw the mortar, or drop it and move off from crouching so someone else can cycle in (and even if they did, they would not have enough TU to move onto the mortar tile, pick it up, crouch and then fire; if necessary the reload time can be changed to cost few enough TUs that such cycling is impossible, while firing and reloading on the same turn from a fixed position is).

That said, smoke and bombard is still optimal whenever the terrain cooperates with arcing; it's just that grenade spam is way better at it than the mortar.

Quote
I'm not arguing that the mortar is the optimal choice of fire support, but I find it worthwhile to use, even a little later in the game; it's a great situational-use weapon.  Anyways, you should want to move on from the mortar to something like the tornado rocket mortar, or tossing high explosive packs from your uber-trained ubers.

The main problem is that it has just far too narrow a window of utility atm. Early it's situational vs even HE, frag and smoke grens, and beyond that it's about entirely worthless now that it's in competition with precision accuracy lobbed HE charges, hellerium, willy pete, etc...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 05, 2016, 02:32:58 am
Maybe, but the Mortar is so fucking awesome that who really cares!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 02:40:11 am
I'm totally fine with some people not using the mortar. Some others will use it. Allowing it to fire each round would be against the original design idea. However indeed back then forcing people to kneel before firing was impossible, so maybe it could be revised. Also, it's crazy that grenades that aren't in hand (but in inventory) do not count down/explode (which is intesyfying the grenade spam, especially by enabling pre-priming of multiple explosives). Mortar will make much more sense when finally this problem will be erased (at least as an option); also pre-priming will be less cheesy.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 05, 2016, 03:11:09 am
Let's say reload+turn is 18 TUs (default reload is 15, so giving you 3 to turn), so your gal has at least 18 after firing.  Drop from hand is 2, stand up is 8, move from square is 4, total 14 TUs.  With a second gal to pick up the empty mortar, reload, and toss to a third, that third gal only needs 14 TUs to pick it up and 4 to kneel, total of 18, so she would have enough to fire.  Thus asking for fire+reload+turning is necessarily getting firing multiple times per turn, unless the reload is incredibly quick.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 05, 2016, 03:14:47 am
Maybe, but the Mortar is so fucking awesome that who really cares!

Also, this - I don't want a buffed mortar to get a second 'balance' pass to nerf bat it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 03:29:09 am
That's also a good point. The mortar was intended to be the pinnacle of high damage for low price. I'd rather buff said damage than make it a faster-firing weapon. I just didn't want it to have as much power as heavy rockets. However, the WP shells are already quite devastating to enemies like tanks, not to mention the insane AoE of poisonous shells.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 03:51:14 am
Haha! Maybe I should have been more precise - it would make sense for "smarter" npcs to contribute more to research than other ones. The Academy Engineer might be twice as productive as a normal Brainer for your research, but he would demand a larger salary as a result, and nicer accommodations in the barracks, etc.

For starters, Academy Engineer a 'she', and by that logic, she's worth around 0.1 Brainer at best :). Guild Engineers would be worth around 0.2. If they wanted to work for such technological heretics as the pirate gals in the first place! Fully agreed they would want better accomodations, though :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Alucious on August 05, 2016, 04:37:47 am
For starters, Academy Engineer a 'she', and by that logic, she's worth around 0.1 Brainer at best :). Guild Engineers would be worth around 0.2. If they wanted to work for such technological heretics as the pirate gals in the first place! Fully agreed they would want better accomodations, though :)

For real? Brainers must be exceedingly rare in the X-Piratez universe... So then definitely buying them in unlimited quantities from the black market seems really unlikely!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 06:10:47 am
It does indeed. But currently nothing can be done about that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 05, 2016, 06:36:11 am
Let's say reload+turn is 18 TUs (default reload is 15, so giving you 3 to turn), so your gal has at least 18 after firing.  Drop from hand is 2, stand up is 8, move from square is 4, total 14 TUs.  With a second gal to pick up the empty mortar, reload, and toss to a third, that third gal only needs 14 TUs to pick it up and 4 to kneel, total of 18, so she would have enough to fire.  Thus asking for fire+reload+turning is necessarily getting firing multiple times per turn, unless the reload is incredibly quick.

That's the plan.


Anyways, if Dioxine wants the mortar to fire every other turn yet still be useful, it will need a significant accuracy (such that even a nub will land shots with near pin-point precision from long distances when making crouched shots) and damage buff.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 05, 2016, 07:13:46 am
IRL mortars reload EXTREMELY quickly.  If I'm remembering correctly, I'm not military trained and haven't actually gotten to use one, the reload is seriously just dropping the shell in.  The mortar itself would be positioned and set for where you want to hit already.  so in real life, the setup would be the long bit, and reloading and firing would be really quick.  But as far as I'm aware, we don't have that capacity. 

Same would go for heavy machine guns, they take a while to set up and as long as you don't have to move them, basically lock down that area completely. 
But I don't think the game mechanics would allow for either of those.

Edit

After doing a little bit more research, the difficulty of loading firing and moving mortars would depend on the style and tech you're working with, modern infantry mortars tend not to have a reload, you drop the shell in, and the firing pin on the bottom sets it off when the shell reaches it. older mortars were far heavier and closer to cannon in style, though designed to take advantage of the extreme arc.

My suggested solution would be to have multiple styles of mortars, the light ones would do less damage but be quick to fire and either have a virtual magazine of shots or have an instant reload, while heavier ones would do high damage but be heavier and slow to reload.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 05, 2016, 08:21:54 am
More over, it would be nice to see mortars retain utility beyond what is a very narrow window of the game. Plasma/Hellerium, Poison Gas, Shrapnel (aoe cutting damage) and Chem rounds would all be cool, but I also think that the TU cost needs to enable a reload and fire from the ground for starters (assuming no movement other than turning).

There are already a rather wide variety of shells for the mortar, you know? Some (many?) of the things you mention here do exist. Also, there is an upgrade to the mortar which allows you to fire every turn, and for even more damage. You just have to wait and get the upgrade. If you get the perfect long range weapon at the beginning, what's the point of upgrades?

I think the evolution of the mortar, then its replacement by the tornado rocket mortar, is entirely fine. I don't like smoke/scout/snipe tactics, so I don't tend to use the mortar (and at least back when I was considering it, it always felt like ammo was crazy expensive, but that was many versions ago), but I do use (and love) to tornado rocket mortar for my loader gal.

I do wish, however, that the loader suit (which is really not that great of a use of 2 power armor parts, compared to waiting for a 3rd to make a juggernaut suit) gave enough carrying capacity to carry both that and a vulcan, and allowed to fire them one handed. It used to work that way and that was awesomely satisfying. Now, dragonfly armor gals make use of the vulcan much better, and the loader gal is left with the tornado and not really much of an ability to do anything on turns where you don't need large scale devastation (mine has started carrying a Bozar, to take potshots while waiting for a good mortar target).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 05, 2016, 08:42:11 am
Ah, didn't know about the additional munition types.

That said, I feel my point stands about the basic mortar having way too tiny a window of utility. I don't have access to the upgraded version, and I struggled hard to find a use for it both pre and post hellerium nade.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 05, 2016, 08:51:40 am
As I said, I also don't use it. But I don't bring very many long ranged gals generally. Back in my days, if you were going to do anything in Piratez, you needed to be in melee. This has evolved significantly now, but I'm sort of stuck in my "good old ways". When I restart, it'll be a totally new game again.

One type of munition I would love to see is stun gas, that would be lovely. I love my stun gas :D (except that one mission where one gal passed out in combat on turn one, dropped her pre-primed stun gas which promptly stunned more people whose stun gas grenades blew up immediately (?!) causing a chain reaction that stunned all but 2 gals out of 18. That was "less than optimal" as Ivan says. :D

Also, another thing that would be nice: Wench outfit for the mansion. I'm not sure why it's not allowed since other psi outfits are and I'd bet some of the people living there are the kind that enjoy special room service.

And thinking of mansions: wouldn't it be nice for some church reverend to be able to keep his favorite pet chryssalid at home? Sterilized, of course, otherwise it'd be intolerable during heat.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 05, 2016, 03:55:26 pm
That was "less than optimal" as Ivan says. :D

LOL!  Too True! 

Also, another thing that would be nice: Wench outfit for the mansion. I'm not sure why it's not allowed since other psi outfits are and I'd bet some of the people living there are the kind that enjoy special room service.
Hm... from what I'm seeing in the ruleset, I think it is:  in Piratez_Planet.rul line 26256, STR_LINGERIE_SET_X_UC is part of the allowedArmors.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 05:23:59 pm
Also, another thing that would be nice: Wench outfit for the mansion. I'm not sure why it's not allowed since other psi outfits are and I'd bet some of the people living there are the kind that enjoy special room service.

I'm not sure why do you think it's not allowed, beacuse it is.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 05, 2016, 08:56:36 pm
I want to be able to rename my Mutated Reaper to Mister Snuggems
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 05, 2016, 09:31:41 pm
LOL!  Too True!
That's one phrase I loved from your LP. No swears, just an objective: "hum.. that was... less than optimal" and often I'd be laughing out loud and my laptop. Maybe I should re-watch your tftd LP...
Quote
Hm... from what I'm seeing in the ruleset, I think it is:  in Piratez_Planet.rul line 26256, STR_LINGERIE_SET_X_UC is part of the allowedArmors.
:o well, as I said it makes sense to be included ;) I must have misread something somewhere. Time to try my loving commando in the mansion! Wenches and seductresses to battle :) now I just needs something that can act through walls...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 05, 2016, 09:47:33 pm
I want to be able to rename my Mutated Reaper to Mister Snuggems

lol. Hey, how about to rename  ramshackle rifle to handcrafted rufle? More suitable to the setting :) plus some modification in tje description, so that it is to understand it was made by smughlers at the black market as an "alternative" 8)

Edit: also musket should be named flintlock rifle, and flintlock rifle in single shot rifle? In 2601 a bunch of "ignorant" criminals won't even know the concept of musket?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 05, 2016, 11:42:28 pm
They do understand the difference between Musket and Rifle as much as we understand the difference between Mac and PC, rest assured. Also not sure what a 'rufle' is. A ruffle maybe? To ruffle one's feathers? Interesting metaphor, sadly one I'm not familiar with.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2016, 12:11:35 am
A rifle implies rifling, which a musket doesn't typically have (except the sniper musket). Rifling makes the bullet spin on itself which stabilize it's flight, allowing for better aiming and penetration by the point, by opposition to a musket ball that's just pretty much a miniature cannonball.

The gals might be ignorant by our standards (they don't know technology or philosophy or science) but they're not dumb. Their lifes depend on the tools of fighting, so I'd expect them to know those quite well, as shown by their ability to pick up pretty much anything on the field and use it efficiently, unless it's locked by advanced tech shenanigans (like the star god or voodoo techs are).

As for rufle, the only thing it makes me think of is chips. But I don't know why you'd name a gun after chips.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 06, 2016, 12:26:14 am
Sry i meant rifle, sheer typo. As for their "tools" knowledge, yes they catch on quckly but since their startin condition is very simple and basic as thier "science", thdy have even to research bows!) i thought my hint would be ok. Flintlock technology is the same implemented on that kind of rifle as to my understanding, same on that kind of pistol, so it made me think so. Maybe it's a personal point ov view since i'm not a weapon expert or engineer :) but again whatever :D

Edit: small example
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 06, 2016, 12:34:04 am
Would anyone be (seriously) interested?

I'd be interested in having engineers/scientists and if at all possible, soldiers be manufacturable.  I have a mod idea that would be much improved by manufacturable drones/robots being counted as soldiers. (The other option in my mind is letting missions be done by aux units only)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 06, 2016, 01:34:21 am
The musket probably uses flintlock, the clockwork gun would use a wheel lock, I believe. 

The difference between the musket and the flintlock rifle, or a couple differences, include grooves on the inside of the barrel, rifling, that makes it more accurate at longer ranger, probably it has a longer barrel, and it has a bullet designed to work well with the rifling without increasing the reload time.

Of course, I'm protective of the flintlock rifle since I suggested it, have to show solidarity to ideas, right?  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 06, 2016, 02:42:21 am
Kitten mittens (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fP4emqw7O4) for Mister Snuggems please.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2016, 06:12:54 am
Sry i meant rifle, sheer typo. As for their "tools" knowledge, yes they catch on quckly but since their startin condition is very simple and basic as thier "science", thdy have even to research bows!) i thought my hint would be ok. Flintlock technology is the same implemented on that kind of rifle as to my understanding, same on that kind of pistol, so it made me think so. Maybe it's a personal point ov view since i'm not a weapon expert or engineer :) but again whatever :D

Edit: small example

I don't know.. making a bow from some wood and string is no small feat. Even if the principle is simple, the proper construction to make a combat worthy bow isn't. By opposition, the gals of the 27th century are swimming in guns and guns parts since childhood. I think starting firing accuracy is also higher than throwing (which is used for bows), showing a relative lack of familiarity. To me, Über settlements are kind of places where guns are everywhere to defend against megafauna and raiders, so the gals know their guns from childhood. But nobody "stoops down" to going primitive and using bows, until the brainerz realize that it could very well work.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 06, 2016, 06:32:31 am
Also the capacity to use a bow doesn't mean you have the capacity to make one.  I figure the first bow research is finding someone who can sell them, preferably without jacking up the price any more by showing active interest, later research gives the ability to make the suckers.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 06, 2016, 06:42:27 am
Just chiming in.  I dis-agree with any efforts to re-name muskets, and rifled muskets.   They have perfect historical antecedents and they are ideal names right now.

But here is something I've been wondering.
The Boarding gun progression:
Boarding Gun >
(Aim: Tu 60%, Acc 80%, Snap: Tu 28%/ Acc 60%,  Auto: Tu 36%/ Acc 35%   )
Decent starter, hits hard.  Heavy, few can use it.  Feels like a squad support weapon, which it is.
Custom Shooty Gun>
(Aim:  Tu 60%, Acc 80%, Snap: Tu 28%/ Acc 60%, Auto: Tu 36%/ Acc 40%  )
Slightly better accuracy on auto, and shoots 5 rds. Range out to 18 now for snap and auto.  Very solid improvement, and a great weapon.
Super Shooty Gun>
(Auto: Tu 30%/ Acc 40%  )
No more snap, or aimed. 6 rd bursts now, but no more snap or aimed.  This feels like a reversion from the previous well rounded weapon to a slightly more flexible minigun replacement.  Can I get aimed and snap fire back on this?  I never built it because I was loathe to give these up.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 06, 2016, 06:52:04 am
If you don't find upgrade from 11 to 18 shots/turn (with increased range and 10% TU left to move) useful, don't build it... it's not for you. I don't find losing snap and aimed such a problem - there are better weapons for these roles. It's not supposed to be The Gun To End All Guns. It's gradual specialization of an assault weapon that can be used as support weapon, not vice versa.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 06, 2016, 06:58:08 am
Fair enough.  I must not have found the virtues of the lead filled environment yet.  I'll have to give it a try.  :)  Thanks for the reasoning behind it!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 06, 2016, 07:22:24 am
Super shooty gun is bad in theory and practice in my experience; definite downgrade and not worth the loss of flexibility on the custom, so can confirm ivan's critique.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 06, 2016, 08:20:39 am
I refute the critique with the following:


DAKKADAKKADAKKADAKKA!!!

:D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 06, 2016, 12:25:55 pm
I currently have two Custom Shooty Guns and one Super Shooty Gun on my Bonnie. I find it to be a reasonable setup.
Three Super Shooty Guns would indeed seriously limit my firing range, but no Super Shooty Guns would mean noticeably less dakka.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 06, 2016, 04:11:05 pm
Who needs flexibility if you can kill stuff so fast, so fast... ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 06, 2016, 05:25:24 pm
I almost got two Super Shooty Guns to place on either side on Bonny's main door, because those door gunners would rack up the kills on landing.  Much better than the Custom Shooty Gun, mostly because I had plenty of sniper weapons, and snap-firing was covered by looted CAWS.  In my mind it's more of a machine gun that got the dakka upgrade from the Boarding Gun, and I think the weapon specialization is a good thing.

There are such things as Linux SMG and Smartrifles to cover the all-rounder category.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: nrafield on August 06, 2016, 07:46:44 pm
The Stun Grenades are terrible and should be improved in my opinion, as they're bad for capturing even unarmored targets. You need 4-5 of them to down a single General Operator for instance. In retrospect when I try to throw a stun grenade and then soften them up for it to work, they usually end up just dying. I can get a HE or a Frag grenade instead, and just one would be enough to accomplish a similiar result - taking the enemy out of action (although not as prisoner)

Also I like Super Shooty gun because it feels that my Aimed or Snap shots on Boarding/Custom Shooty guns never hit when I need them. It's better to make 5-6 shots with a slightly lower accuracy than one with a high accuracy which misses anyway for me. You don't get a clip back if you've used it anyway.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 06, 2016, 07:55:15 pm
Who needs flexibility if you can kill stuff so fast, so fast... ;)

Primarily because aimed shots beyond the range of retaliation stop you from getting killed so fast, particularly since TFTD damage spreads were removed; meanwhile the autofire on custom shooty is more than enough to put down almost anything when you get into close-medium range while say storming a ship. Mind you I don't have the Bonnaventura and am stuck with 8 units, so specialization isn't something I can't afford in most cases, but super shooty gun is most definitely inferior because it's not very compatible with smoke sniping.


And yeah Stun Grenades are terrible and probably need a buff, agreed.


Speaking of, would like to see a 'flashbang' item that applies temp debuffs to aim, throwing, reactions, morale and expends enemy TUs (the closer you are to the epicenter, the worse the effect).
 
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 06, 2016, 09:20:52 pm
Being able to allocate Runts to expedite craft repair might be a good idea; if you need to limit the rapidity of repairs and the opportunity cost of not manufacturing goods with those Runts is thought to be an inadequate limiter by itself, merely cap the number of Runts that can work on each ship.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 07, 2016, 12:51:25 am
Dioxine, hiw about considering new possible leadings for the "spring cleaning" research topic? Actually "pile of junk" shuld not exist in the game  since its "fruits" ( scrap meral, chemical and superconductive wire which should ve renamed electruc wires) shoud either buyable at bkack market and looted (especially from warehouses). It may simply lead to some info to the pkayer, as the topic "what do" does (i think the latter sgould be present in the bootypedia at the beginning by default).

Also, any chances that  viper assault cannon (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2582.msg51005.html#msg51005) may make its way into the mod? May be an improvrment of the "anicient" assault cannon.  :)

Edit: even a gun inspired from quake' s super nailgun (https://quakewiki.org/w/images/a/ab/weapon_supernailgun.png) may be interesting, a "firearm version" of the "crate of violence" item 8)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 07, 2016, 01:24:23 am
I have two suggestions this time :)

I'll start with the simpler one, probably:

Would it be possible to use the system we currently use for enemy voodoo, with any ally line of sight that turn up to int counting for the spell, for indirect fire? Bows, mortars, anything with an arc.  They know where you are, and if they can do the arc, that should be enough for those. Right?  Though probably the computer is still not smart enough to use mortars, does it use crouch at all?

Second idea, which seems far more complicated to me:

Is it possible to set doors that open one way, but not the other, unless specific criteria is met?  My idea is to have as vessels giant genetically engineered bugs or something like that, possibly for Deep Ones, or maybe some new xenomorph species.  If they're healthy, they'll let you come in, as they wish to eat you, but won't let you out easily; if they're hurt, like if you shoot them down, they don't really have a choice on your use of their 'doors'.  Their outer hulls would probably be chitin or something very like chrysalis hide, while inner walls could maybe be rendered into that material Reticulans give, to provide incentive to not just blow the thing up.  Inside the creature, it would be dark and have a chem effect that slowly eats away at armor until one side is at 0, at which point it eats away at life.  If any of the crew have voodoo, being in front of the creature would count as line of sight.  Uh, there could be a heart and brain in the creature, requiring you to kill or maybe capture it to win the map, I honestly don't know how we'd deal with a live ship capture, I imagine the carcass would take up about as much space as the Bonnie hull.

I hope that made at least a little bit of sense, and that it ends up somewhat useful

Oh, and if it was set up Giger-ish, and had squlchy sounds inside, all the better  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 05:27:36 am
particularly since TFTD damage spreads were removed

They were never here, just it was possible to force the game to use them, and now it's not. I won't advertise the S-Shooty Gun - you don't like it, don't use it. There are plenty other weapons to choose from. Although 18 bullets allow engaging and killing enemies who have 60+ armor, like Stormtroopers or turned-around power armor (completely impossible with TFTD rules, but perfectly normal with UFO damage rules - if the spread is high, high volume of fire pays off much better).

Stun Grenade is crappy due to how it allows to catch people without any risk. The price you pay is crappiness. Although adding TU damage to it might be a good idea.

@khade:
1. it'd put the HURT on the player, all right, especially the campers :) If someone codes it down, why not? But it'd be really, really painful and sort of cheaty (the AI has free scouting that you don't have, as it 'remembers' your position for a number of turns.
2. Might be possible through some really nasty hacks.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 07, 2016, 06:13:21 am
For the living ship thing, maybe one entrance has a drop, and the other is set to be particularly unpleasant?

On the indirect fire, maybe the capacity to use your location indirectly could decay faster than intelligence?  It would make things particularly nasty, as I'm pretty sure a lot of explosive weapons can be indirect.  Maybe it would be most useful for a brutal mod, just in general.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 07, 2016, 11:14:07 am
Another quck one: habout to renane "airbus" in "airvan", and make its wings a little smaller? You see, the average joe does not expect to beinf attacked by some tribal folks coming down a "polite" civil vessel  ???. Bootypedia pic may be leaved as it is, of course, onlt some changes in the description :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 12:17:22 pm
Uh, but why?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 07, 2016, 12:24:09 pm
Uh, but why?

Don't now, maybe airbus may come lately into play, as a "piratez vesion of the skyraner". And now is rather small, so i'd call it 2van" rather than "bus"  ;D

Edt. of coure, it should be made more broader. :)

Edt. 2: to "complete the RCF tier" may bebalso intetesting have a RCF pistol, submachine, and shotgun, along withbthe rifle. Military shotgun may be renaned "RCF shotgun" and "domestic shotgun" to "shotgun" to simplify things a bit :) as for a pistol and SMG, may be used sprites from others mod, permission provided?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 07, 2016, 05:59:22 pm
Three main reasons:
1. You can manufacture from a finite resource, as opposed to buying infinite (and being constrained only with money).
2. You can introduce unique units that way.
3. That's a secret, but you will like it a lot ;)

Also that check should be before manufacturing (just like with craft manufacturing); and manufactured person should already count like occupying space (ditto).

Yippee ki-yay, m$%herf#%*&r! ;-)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 07, 2016, 08:29:27 pm
Uh, but why?

Call it the 'Party Van'. (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/4chan-party-van)


They were never here, just it was possible to force the game to use them, and now it's not. I won't advertise the S-Shooty Gun - you don't like it, don't use it. There are plenty other weapons to choose from. Although 18 bullets allow engaging and killing enemies who have 60+ armor, like Stormtroopers or turned-around power armor (completely impossible with TFTD rules, but perfectly normal with UFO damage rules - if the spread is high, high volume of fire pays off much better).

Why would I roll dice against heavily armoured units with a blunt object rather than use a proper can opener like Wands of Rending, seduction, high explosives, etc? Particularly when I have unlimited gear slots, and so many effective anti-armour options?

As for everyone else, the custom shooty gun shoots them dead pretty effectively while being more friendly with smoke and in general not exposing myself to enemy retaliation; super shooty is overkill.

In general, the main problem with SSG is that against the enemies where all that extra dakka might be good, there are usually far better solutions.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 09:38:55 pm
Yippee ki-yay, m$%herf#%*&r! ;-)

Wooo!

Also yeah, in my country, passenger carrying van is called a 'bus' anyway. So there is that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 07, 2016, 09:40:26 pm
Is it possible to subdivide the Prov Govt into the various countries? I would love to visit some retribution on those bastards that defected to the aliens without eating a massive point penalty.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 09:42:43 pm
Is it possible to subdivide the Prov Govt into the various countries? I would love to visit some retribution on those bastards that defected to the aliens without eating a massive point penalty.

Haha! That'd be really cool. Needs code to differentiate between those, though... Or, if made for cheaps (no country-specific units, only checks if anyone was 'swayed'), I guess it COULD be made. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 07, 2016, 09:46:21 pm
Would also be cool to be able to terrorize and pillage their cities; show them what happens when you choose the losing side and go deadbeat on your protection payments. Naturally there would be heavy resistance, but to the victor go the spoils...

Maybe you could even intimidate them back into the fold if you truly made a friend of horror (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD0rU6-7sKs) by laying waste to their cities and destroying all alien hideouts within their borders.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 09:48:56 pm
Nah you're too small a fry to assault them head-on (at least not until late game) - although making their lives miserable is always an option, either by robbing them or staging a mutant rebellion.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 07, 2016, 09:52:41 pm
Nah you're too small a fry to assault them head-on (at least not until late game) - although making their lives miserable is always an option, either by robbing them or staging a mutant rebellion.

Direct assaults could be a late game researchable mission; bottom line, you reach a point where they fear you more than even the global factions if you're sufficiently armed and vicious (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TruXhuAO4IY). Naturally, the aliens can always sway them back with subsequent missions...

Mutant rebellions sound pretty good (how would this work? Something you 'manufacture'? A tactical mission?).

Also could raid their outlying facilities (mining interests, trading posts, etc)...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 07, 2016, 09:55:21 pm
Intetestin mission :) hey, also "Party van" is really a nice touch!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 07, 2016, 11:12:31 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x0Db0J0iSYU Something like on this album's cover, maybe :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 07, 2016, 11:33:46 pm
Honestly, that's how I always pictured the Bonventura, anyway :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 08, 2016, 02:51:48 am
Keep damage spread at 0-200% but make the probability distribution gaussian with each +/- 25% being increasingly likely; obviously the probabilities can be tweaked:

40% +/- 0-25 (Average Hit)
30% +/- 26-50 (Good/Bad Hit)
25% +/- 51-75 (Excellent Hit/Graze)
5% +/- 76-100% (Critical Hit/Fail)

You might also add a weapon property that makes certain types of hits more likely (criticals on sniper weapons for example).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2016, 03:31:25 am
I could make a gaussian spread by using 'average of two 1...200% rolls' Meridian provided (yeah, in this engine, everything needs to be hardcoded and obviously CANNOT be easily tweaked). I might do that, I might not.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Starving Poet on August 08, 2016, 03:39:56 am
Keep damage spread at 0-200% but make the probability distribution gaussian with each +/- 25% being increasingly likely; obviously the probabilities can be tweaked:

40% +/- 0-25 (Average Hit)
30% +/- 26-50 (Good/Bad Hit)
25% +/- 51-75 (Excellent Hit/Graze)
5% +/- 76-100% (Critical Hit/Fail)

You might also add a weapon property that makes certain types of hits more likely (criticals on sniper weapons for example).


I know Meridian added a double-dice option a while back to sort of emulate a guassian curve.   a 2d101 roll instead of the 1d201.  My personal favorite (if this was an option) would be to add a 1d101+2d51 it gives a much nicer center distribution without making the 0-20 and 180-200 rolls nearly impossible like when using a 4d51 roll.

https://anydice.com/program/90bc
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2016, 04:11:31 am
However, such a setup would remove the often occurence of 'lucky shots', that I find quite satisfying, and push the game balance from favoring multiple attacks into favoring single attacks.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 08, 2016, 04:37:04 am
I don't know if this is the place for this suggestion, but, I think it would make the torches more useful if they didn't light up automatically, and had to be lit before giving off light or lighting those clubbed by them on fire.  First it would allow you to use the darkness to position yourself, if desired, and second it would allow you to bring a supply of torches just in case without having to replace them every mission.  The negative would be that you'd now have to spend time units to light it, but that's a minor problem, I think.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2016, 07:28:56 am
That'd require a script that swaps item (torch) into another item (lit torch) when the torch is 'primed'. Not sure if it's possible.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 08, 2016, 08:14:30 am
What about the flashlight? Could that do the switch on or off? Would that have the same problem?

Given the ingenuity of the people behind the scenes, I wouldn't be surprised if it's possible, the question in my mind is if it's worth the aggravation to set up.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2016, 09:08:09 am
There is a function that can do that for the flashlight but what's the point, just pocket it and the problem is solved. The same could be done for Torch, but it wouldn't stop you from setting targets on fire with an unprimed one.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 08, 2016, 06:48:46 pm
That'd require a script that swaps item (torch) into another item (lit torch) when the torch is 'primed'. Not sure if it's possible.
If torch is primeable then its not lit by default.
Different graphic for lit can be supped by scripts or by scripts recolors (by making fire transparent when not lit).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 08, 2016, 08:57:38 pm
But you'll still be able to burn people with it? (It's a flare-battle type with gun melee.)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 08, 2016, 09:53:51 pm
But you'll still be able to burn people with it? (It's a flare-battle type with gun melee.)
It will always burn people even if "turn off". When I finish new lighting system (right now I fighting with performance degradation caused by it) I will think about way of enabling and disabling weapons attacks. Another thing would be no-stopping grenade countdown even if in inventory or hand.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 08, 2016, 10:45:29 pm
I think we all want the grenades to still stop the countdown if in hand, if you can arrange that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 08, 2016, 11:25:17 pm
I think we all want the grenades to still stop the countdown if in hand, if you can arrange that.

Yes, but i think it may be made only with certain type, how about a smart grenade which may achuebe that?

As for shotguns, i think since the pair domestic shotgun/heavy shotgun is quite senseles , how abaout to remover the former and make the latter replace the first? 4 shotgun are quite enough :) give the tons of weapons in play.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: greattuna on August 08, 2016, 11:35:40 pm
cue 20+ smoke grenade explosions on first turn

->Shotguns: we have that much more than 4 shotguns: sawed-off, double-barreled, domestic, military\blackops, heavy, combat, blunderbuss + upgrade, CAWS, super shotty, smasher, splatty, plasma shotgun, boom gun...
Besides, they're quite different, though I consider both of them useless. Especially heavy, it doesn't even have chem rounds.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 08, 2016, 11:41:41 pm
Heavy is useful early on, so is domestic, though for a much shorter time.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 09, 2016, 01:35:42 am
Shotguns are basically crap outside of AP rounds/slugs, and even then they're still crap because they lack range.

The entire weapon class badly needs an overhaul (like doing Stun/Stamina damage on hit regardless of armour penetration).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 09, 2016, 02:09:59 am
TU damage would work well to support the main role of the shotgun. The pellets indeed tend to be pretty useless, but one you pass a certain threshold or change to certain damage types, they can be quite useful. Anything with chem is great, getting something that sets people on fire would be nice, and TU damage for AP would be cool. Using the super shotgun, you can do a great amount of damage in the routine clearing runs against small crafts as well.

And with single slugs, they can be great for breaching, or for urban environments.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 09, 2016, 04:27:34 am
Honestly buckshot should probably get the secondary effects; slugs/AP don't need much help outside of their atrocious range.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 09, 2016, 04:35:05 am
It will always burn people even if "turn off". When I finish new lighting system (right now I fighting with performance degradation caused by it) I will think about way of enabling and disabling weapons attacks. Another thing would be no-stopping grenade countdown even if in inventory or hand.

What'd be most welcomed is an option that holds grenade's countdown ONLY if it's held in hand, not anywhere in the inventory...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 09, 2016, 06:50:53 am
Honestly buckshot should probably get the secondary effects; slugs/AP don't need much help outside of their atrocious range.
In case this was unclear from my previous message, yes, I did mean that the buff could be applied to the ammo with multiple pellets, not the more powerful single shot AP ammo. I consider the latter to be quite good early game close quarter weapons.

Another thing I'd change is how long it takes to get CAWS ammo manufacturing. In all my games I carefully watch what little ammo I get as I can't make more until I am well beyond caring about CAWS, having better guns with longer range. It makes sense to take a bit longer than most firearms since CAWS are quite powerful early on, but maybe not quite as long? By the time you an make LACC, AC and LC ammo, maybe? They are kind of all in the same tier, with the others etting the advantage of multiple ammo types.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 09, 2016, 07:02:37 am
Alright.

and TU damage for AP would be cool.

That was the source of confusion.

As CAWS/LACC goes, no comment; never used them. Was on the Custom Shooty/Longbow/Gauss hypetrain at that point.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2016, 10:58:30 am
It will always burn people even if "turn off". When I finish new lighting system (right now I fighting with performance degradation caused by it) I will think about way of enabling and disabling weapons attacks.

Wouldn't it be simpler to have a script which substitutes one item with another item?

Unlit torch can be changed to lit torch.
Lit torch cannot be changed to unlit torch.
Lit torch is non-recoverable.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 09, 2016, 03:09:54 pm
I like the Flintlock Rifle but it needs some improvement. Currently it is a bit underwhelming. With the aimed shot, it can only be used every second turn, which is strong drawback, so the shot should have some more punch.

I would give it a power scaling of "Accuracy*0.3" to put it between reaper rifle and sniper rifle.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2016, 04:20:41 pm
I like the Flintlock Rifle but it needs some improvement. Currently it is a bit underwhelming. With the aimed shot, it can only be used every second turn, which is strong drawback, so the shot should have some more punch.

I would give it a power scaling of "Accuracy*0.3" to put it between reaper rifle and sniper rifle.

To be honest I don't understand why a rifle from what looks like Napoleonic era should compete against modern weapons.
Yes, they do the job when they hit people who aren't wearing modern armour, but they're still shit-tier. I doubt you as a player are even expected to use them, except maybe very early.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 09, 2016, 05:02:11 pm
To be honest I don't understand why a rifle from what looks like Napoleonic era should compete against modern weapons.
Yes, they do the job when they hit people who aren't wearing modern armour, but they're still shit-tier. I doubt you as a player are even expected to use them, except maybe very early.

I think the player is expected to use the flintlock rifle. You have to research it and manufacture it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2016, 05:11:41 pm
I think the player is expected to use the flintlock rifle. You have to research it and manufacture it.

Yeah, but realistically speaking, I never tried. Better weapons are just too ubiquitous at the moment. I only research it to unlock further stuff.

Does it mean I want to see it buffed? Not really, because it wouldn't make sense.

Does it mean I want it to disappear from the game? No, because its presence is kind of logical and should make more sense later. The early game is still in flux, with steps gradually being made to make the player start at a lower tech in general. I suppose it'll finally catch up with the flintlock weapons concept.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 09, 2016, 08:05:08 pm
... Hellerium Tipped Mini Ball...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 09, 2016, 08:48:47 pm
What'd be most welcomed is an option that holds grenade's countdown ONLY if it's held in hand, not anywhere in the inventory...
Then it would be 3 stange option:
0 - current behavior (explosive packs)
1 - only hands (grenade)
2 - always countdown (torch or dynamite)

Wouldn't it be simpler to have a script which substitutes one item with another item?

Unlit torch can be changed to lit torch.
Lit torch cannot be changed to unlit torch.
Lit torch is non-recoverable.
Right now my scripts still lacks some functionality to made it work. This is only question of some time to add this.
Maybe when I finish light&visibility changes I could do it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on August 09, 2016, 09:53:53 pm
It would be cool if there was a way for enemies to flee if the battle goes on for too long (in order to prevent urban maps from devolving into a game of hide and seek) this has been a problem since the original X-com, but the maps included in Xpirate-z exasperate it.

The game could check the following factors
If the above have been true for X amount of turns, the game will inform the player that the enemies appear to have fled, and ask if the player wishes to end the mission. If the player says no, the count is reset (It won't ask for another X turns) and the mission continues as normal. If the player says Yes however, the mission ends and all remaining enemies are marked as escaped in the score screen. Escaped foes are worth zero points, and you don't get their loot. You do however get all the loot that had been dropped.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 09, 2016, 10:49:56 pm
I think the Telekinetic Projector should work more like the Ghost Beam; unlimited range, but power degrades beyond its effective range.

Also veterancy for Aircraft would be cool, with pilot abilities upgrading with successful interceptions; they would add dodge, accuracy, even damage (signifying hitting the weak point for massive damage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF8POaO-9TY&feature=youtu.be&t=83)).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 09, 2016, 11:28:44 pm
Right now my scripts still lacks some functionality to made it work. This is only question of some time to add this.
Maybe when I finish light&visibility changes I could do it.

OK, good.

BTW there would also have to be a function that changes an item into another item on battlescape end. Lit torches can be unrecoverable, but what about lamps and flashlights? An "on" lamp would have to be changed into an "off" lamp.

Also veterancy for Aircraft would be cool, with pilot abilities upgrading with successful interceptions; they would add dodge, accuracy, even damage (signifying hitting the weak point for massive damage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kF8POaO-9TY&feature=youtu.be&t=83)).

I think it's going more in the direction of having actual pilots. Like, gals.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 12:21:01 am
I like the Flintlock Rifle but it needs some improvement. Currently it is a bit underwhelming. With the aimed shot, it can only be used every second turn, which is strong drawback, so the shot should have some more punch.

It is good enough as it is. The competition is the Ramshackle Rifle, which, at 80 Firing, is less accurate, and deals 26 damage, as compared to 46 from the Flintlock Rifle. If you're able to carry 2 Flintlock Rifles with you to increase fire rate, I'd say Flintlock Rifle has an edge. Alternatively, use 2-3 Flintlock Rifles + Battle Flag to fire and reload within single turn.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 10, 2016, 12:31:24 am
My understanding of the flintlock rifle is that if you don't get lucky drops, and get other sniper weapons, it's good, it will quickly be overwhelmed by the other options, but for the resources put into it, there's a good payoff.

So idea, somewhat linked to the active camouflage that Meridian designed:  How difficult would it be to do silenced weapons, ones that don't mark you in enemy Intelligence when you shoot them, other than direction the bullet came from, and don't even give that if the target is alone and killed by said bullet?

Naturally, they would have to be balanced through weaker bullet damage and range, probably don't need other stuff though.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 01:04:44 am
Then it would be 3 stange option:
0 - current behavior (explosive packs)
1 - only hands (grenade)
2 - always countdown (torch or dynamite)

That'd very much cover the whole issue, yes. I like it.

So idea, somewhat linked to the active camouflage that Meridian designed:  How difficult would it be to do silenced weapons, ones that don't mark you in enemy Intelligence when you shoot them, other than direction the bullet came from, and don't even give that if the target is alone and killed by said bullet?

All what would be needed is ability to disable Reactions check on such a weapon/ammo, or allow for a bonus to said check.

I think the Telekinetic Projector should work more like the Ghost Beam; unlimited range, but power degrades beyond its effective range.

Yeah, agreed. At least it should become weaker with range.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 10, 2016, 01:12:08 am
Is the reaction check needed for marking your characters location?  Admittedly, just not having the reaction check, unless they are actively aware of you, if that's possible, would be useful by itself.  Even if you were still an available target for voodoo or later flanking attempts or whatever they decide to do.

After this stuff, all we need is a better version of the aye-phone, the ability to cut the lights, greater morale hits when they don't know what just killed their allies, and we would be able to do full on Predator or Sam Fisher shenanigans.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 10, 2016, 01:19:06 am

All what would be needed is ability to disable Reactions check on such a weapon/ammo, or allow for a bonus to said check.
This already done. You can modify reaction check logic by scripts.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 10, 2016, 02:02:44 am

I think it's going more in the direction of having actual pilots. Like, gals.

Fine by me:

Firing Accuracy and Reactions correlates with ship Accuracy (Accuracy more heavily weighted, Reactions needed to react to the enemy's evasive maneuvers; perhaps Reactions are more important vs smaller/lighter or faster craft?),

Reactions and Bravery with Dodge (Reactions more heavily weighted, Bravery signifying the courage and resolve needed to do the aerial stunts necessary).

Critical Hit chance might be a function of Accuracy and Voodoo Mastery (Accuracy more heavily weighted; VooDoo Mastery alludes to using the 'force/schwartz' to place devastating shots Luke Skywalker style (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2we_B6hDrY)).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 10, 2016, 02:54:37 am
Random jokes on the main topic brought up a potentially useful idea:  After finding records of it, or possibly actually having a crew member fall for one, a manufacturing project that has you do a Nigerian Prince Scam.  Low cost, high reward, decent chance of a crackdown aimed directly to whatever base did the project.  For added humor, there could be a slight misunderstanding, which might be intentionally done by the Brainers, it would be called a Nigerian/Hidden Expanse/Theban Prince Albert scam.

I might have a childish sense of humor
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 03:09:55 am
This already done. You can modify reaction check logic by scripts.

Please tell me how :) Eg. I want a silenced pistol that counts your Reactions as being double for the purpose of enemy Reaction to your attack done with it (same can be added for X-Bows).

Firing Accuracy and Reactions correlates with ship Accuracy (Accuracy more heavily weighted, Reactions needed to react to the enemy's evasive maneuvers; perhaps Reactions are more important vs smaller/lighter or faster craft?),

Reactions and Bravery with Dodge (Reactions more heavily weighted, Bravery signifying the courage and resolve needed to do the aerial stunts necessary).

Critical Hit chance might be a function of Accuracy and Voodoo Mastery (Accuracy more heavily weighted; VooDoo Mastery alludes to using the 'force/schwartz' to place devastating shots Luke Skywalker style (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o2we_B6hDrY)).

1. Yes (no need to differentiate between target size, craft weapon accuracy is least important when engaging big ships due to huge to-hit bonus)
2. Yes
3. No critical hits possible so far, so no.
4. Approach/Disengage speed. Bravery is most important, Reactions second.

However the problem is that Reactions bonus that is given by armors is meant for ground combat (Firing and Bravery are ambiguous enough). Unless the Pilot Suit will have such Reaction bonus that not even Guerilla will compare (balanced out by a host of ground combat penalties).

Random jokes on the main topic brought up a potentially useful idea:  After finding records of it, or possibly actually having a crew member fall for one, a manufacturing project that has you do a Nigerian Prince Scam.  Low cost, high reward, decent chance of a crackdown aimed directly to whatever base did the project.  For added humor, there could be a slight misunderstanding, which might be intentionally done by the Brainers, it would be called a Nigerian/Hidden Expanse/Theban Prince Albert scam.

Possible to add in some capacity, but certainly not as manufacture project. Maybe as a single mission 'Deprincing Nigeria' that allows to take revenge for the waste of time and points the scam was.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 10, 2016, 03:13:58 am
Nice, I didn't know you could modify approach/disengage speed.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 10, 2016, 03:21:30 am
Ohh, make it a quest chain, where you just keep missing the people responsible or keep going after the middle man, have to research or interrogate your way to the next step in the chain.  I don't know what reward would be worthy of the aggravation, but to be able to take down the group doing it might be enough.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 03:25:14 am
A quest chain? Sounds like weeks of work :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on August 10, 2016, 06:41:22 am
Is it possible to award points for manufacturing and selling objects? What about triggering retaliation missions based on how much stuff the player sells?

It seems like a lot of people (myself included) enjoy building dedicated factory bases. It would be nice if you didn't have to worry so much about maintaining your score while gals heal, and it would be interesting if the Church or Guild decided to crack down on bootlegging and counterfit goods.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 10, 2016, 06:57:31 am
As mentioned elsewhere, I'm really sold on the idea of Clandestine/Govt flagged 'Cleaner Crews'/Deathsquads consisting of tanks and Elite Govt troops; what program would I use to compile a dropship ufo for them?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 08:01:56 am
You need Mapview to build a map, and probably MCDEdit by Volutar if you want to edit your own tiles. Both are (were?) linked on the OXC main page.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 10, 2016, 10:01:52 am
To be honest I don't understand why a rifle from what looks like Napoleonic era should compete against modern weapons.
Yes, they do the job when they hit people who aren't wearing modern armour, but they're still shit-tier.

I would agree, if it were in real life. However this is PirateZ, where hunting bows are high precision weapons of mass murdering and a sledge hammer is an efficient weapon to destroy tanks.  ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 10, 2016, 10:56:37 am
I would agree, if it were in real life. However this is PirateZ, where hunting bows are high precision weapons of mass murdering and a sledge hammer is an efficient weapon to destroy tanks.  ;)

OK, I understand your argument that there are some simplifications, either for gameplay reasons or (more often) because it's a work in progress. But it doesn't mean we can use it as an excuse in this case...
...or I just don't know. I think it'll be resolved with more detailed early game.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2016, 02:04:38 pm
No need to resolve anything, I've already said that the Flintlock Rifle is as good (or bad) as intened, and fits into its tier just fine.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on August 10, 2016, 08:41:48 pm
No need to resolve anything, I've already said that the Flintlock Rifle is as good (or bad) as intened, and fits into its tier just fine.

The tier of weapons that get ignored because it's easy enough to steal real guns early game.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 10, 2016, 09:39:47 pm
The tier of weapons that get ignored because it's easy enough to steal real guns early game.

You can go straight to Plasma in xcom1; and straight to Sonic in xcom2 too... but I still go for laser and gauss first... because I want to... choice is yours!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 10, 2016, 09:57:35 pm
We should keep in mind that those bows are built for superhumans, at least the ones you have to manufacture are.  I sort of dislike having to say this, but think about the bows from Avatar, it's like that, though not quite as extreme.  I figure an average Uber is around 8ft tall and built like a brick house, and they're officially stronger than they look.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 10, 2016, 10:16:11 pm
We should keep in mind that those bows are built for superhumans, at least the ones you have to manufacture are.  I sort of dislike having to say this, but think about the bows from Avatar, it's like that, though not quite as extreme.  I figure an average Uber is around 8ft tall and built like a brick house, and they're officially stronger than they look.

Yes. And all Ubers have 20 natural armour. It must be muscle mass, since their skin is fairly human-like and not probably much tougher.

The Na'vi are significantly taller, but their homeworld gravity is low, so they would be much less agile on Earth. Still, they are stronger than humans, but I'm not sure about Ubers. I guess Na'vi are elves to Ubers' dwarves...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 11, 2016, 01:05:53 am
Please tell me how :) Eg. I want a silenced pistol that counts your Reactions as being double for the purpose of enemy Reaction to your attack done with it (same can be added for X-Bows).

Some thing like that:
Code: [Select]
extended:
  tags:
    RuleItem:
      XPIRATEZ_STEALTH_GUN: int
  scripts:
    reactionWeaponAction:
      - offset: 1
        code: |
          var int time_units;
          var int time_units_max;
          var int stat_reaction;
          var int temp;
          var int reaction_attacer;
          var int reaction_viewer;
          var ptr RuleItem gun_type;
         
          weapon.getRuleItem gun_type;
          gun_type.getTag temp Tag.XPIRATEZ_STEALTH_GUN;
          if neq temp 1;
            #not stelf weapon, we quit with defualt value
            return reaction_chance;
          end;
         
          #reaction score of unit that react to action done by `action_unit`
          reaction_unit.getTimeUnits time_units;
          reaction_unit.getTimeUnitsMax time_units_max;
          reaction_unit.Stats.getReactions stat_reaction;
         
          set reaction_viewer stat_reaction;
          mul reaction_viewer time_units;
          div reaction_viewer time_units_max;
         
          #reaction score of shooter
          action_unit.getTimeUnits time_units;
          action_unit.getTimeUnitsMax time_units_max;
          action_unit.Stats.getReactions stat_reaction;
         
          set reaction_attacer stat_reaction;
          mul reaction_attacer time_units;
          div reaction_attacer time_units_max;
         
          #we buff attacer reaction score
          mul reaction_attacer 2;
         
          if lt reaction_viewer reaction_attacer;
            set reaction_chance 0; #set 0% chance to react
          end;
          return reaction_chance;
         
items:
  - type: STR_SOME_WEAPON
    tags:
      XPIRATEZ_STEALTH_GUN: 1
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 11, 2016, 01:17:58 am
Yankes, do you have a reference for what can be done with scripts?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Yankes on August 11, 2016, 01:32:34 am
Yankes, do you have a reference for what can be done with scripts?
Exe in debug mode split all meta data of scripts to log. For what script are used is in readme.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on August 11, 2016, 04:51:50 am
You can go straight to Plasma in xcom1; and straight to Sonic in xcom2 too... but I still go for laser and gauss first... because I want to... choice is yours!

I always go for laser in X-com because it's arguably better than plasma for most enemies due to the lack of ammo. In Xcom however, I skip lasers entirely because light plasma is better and can be gotten for free.

In Piratez however, I can't think of any situation where it would be worth the time it takes to manufacture primitive firearms, considering how the game showers you in cheap effective guns that you don't even have to research early on. Sure bows are useful because of the arc and str bonuses, but for the Flintlock Rifle, the time frame in which you might need a long range weapon but nobody's dropped a sniper rifle yet is very small.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 11, 2016, 12:17:52 pm
Gaussian damage (not the type that is about to follow, pun unintended, etc) is badly needed. I just had an Esper wade through 5-6 gauss musket reaction shots, all hitting, when one is normally adequate to kill, and point blank one of my dudes, badly injuring her with a gauss pistol; ridiculous.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 11, 2016, 12:31:37 pm
Gaussian damage (not the type that is about to follow, pun unintended, etc) is badly needed. I just had an Esper wade through 5-6 gauss musket reaction shots, all hitting, when one is normally adequate to kill, and point blank one of my dudes, badly injuring her with a gauss pistol; ridiculous.

It's already available:
- https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.msg59441.html#msg59441
- https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2679.msg59444.html#msg59444
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 11, 2016, 03:08:57 pm
Exe in debug mode split all meta data of scripts to log. For what script are used is in readme.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 11, 2016, 03:38:14 pm
ridiculous.

'This is ridiculous' is this mod's motto. Without all these, totally non-scripted, 'oh shit' and 'wow I pulled it off!' moments, the game would be much more boring. I daresay it's the sole quality that makes this game more enjoyable to me than just any other rendition of the genre.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 11, 2016, 04:31:48 pm
Suggestion: Allow PCs to be data-mined to create new encrypted discs.  Currently you can disassemble then for parts, of which Porn can be used for Pillow Books and Scrolls of Inconsenuality.  What I'd like to see is another process where you can use like 10 PCs and create one Encrypted Disc, or even skip the final step and just a Decrypted Disc.  It seems intuitive for me, and now that I've exhausted the research tree (Still missing VIPs for next stage unlocks. ESPER especially.  Damn Academy Drought runs are no fun), it would be nice to have something that would help me clear out the rest of the historical articles etc from the Disc Library.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 11, 2016, 04:49:47 pm
You can manufacture data discs since like 3 versions ago, bro (Slave Emancipation). But I can add an option to assemble them from Databases as well (with like 40:1 ratio, if allowed early).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 11, 2016, 04:57:12 pm
 :o Well yeah, but, my poor slaves could never make it on their own.....  We'd need to set up job training and stuff for them to really make it. 

As their caring and diligent protector, I can't really believe that Slave Emancipation is a serious movement.  We are much more humane than that.  Only by keeping them in my nurturing embrace can I ensure that they will continue to thrive and prosper. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 11, 2016, 08:10:34 pm
'This is ridiculous' is this mod's motto. Without all these, totally non-scripted, 'oh shit' and 'wow I pulled it off!' moments, the game would be much more boring. I daresay it's the sole quality that makes this game more enjoyable to me than just any other rendition of the genre.

Not the much wider selection of weapons? The mechanics? The lore/atmosphere? The diversity of enemies, technologies and terrains? RNG is certainly not what makes PirateZ for me; in fact it's probably the worst part (outside of the fun variation that doesn't see an Esper matrixing a fusillade of normally instant death like she's fucking Neo or some shit against all probability while Highway to the Danger Zone (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZzQ3eBerHfM) serenades her), but we've been there and done that.

EDIT: Also thanks Meridian, this is exactly what I was wanting.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 11, 2016, 09:53:51 pm
Hey, personally i don't like much the bayonetd musket "aestetically" that is to say that bayonet seems more a rapier attached to it than a proper  bayonet; so i dared t make kinda example of a new one, of coure according to my skills  :o >:( ;D...hope guys you would like :)

Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 11, 2016, 11:10:50 pm
Not the much wider selection of weapons? The mechanics? The lore/atmosphere?

I meant the XCOM:EU, not my mod. But it's an extension of XCOM:EU.

@Linux: nah your bayonets look like crap.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 12, 2016, 01:05:18 pm
@Linux: nah your bayonets look like crap.

I know but please, would you make another for next version. The current one resembles me more a rapier  :'( just my 2 cents :)

Edit: i also suggest so switch features between musket and flintlock rifle, the former may have to be a one shot one, the latter may have 5 rounds clip, with a bit more TU to reliad. After this these should be still balanced :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 15, 2016, 01:45:07 pm
I know but please, would you make another for next version.

I have no interest in it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 15, 2016, 05:23:37 pm
Edit: i also suggest so switch features between musket and flintlock rifle, the former may have to be a one shot one, the latter may have 5 rounds clip, with a bit more TU to reliad. After this these should be still balanced :)

niculinux: You are losing touch with reality, my friend. Both of these are Muzzle Loaders.  There is no such thing as a clip.  That is where the Ol Carbine comes in.  You will remember that you were the champion of that weapon too.  Its in. So don't try to put something else in. 

Honestly, this mod is not about Gun Pron.  Play Jagged Alliance 1.13 with "Tons and Tons of Extra Guns" for that effect.  (Once was enough for me because it ends up being a ton more micro management ... matching ammo types, attachments, etc).

Weapons in this mod should have enough differentiation to give them solid roles and enough variation for flavor so that factions feel unique, but beyond that, lets limit the weapon spam. ;)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 15, 2016, 05:59:07 pm
[..]

Honestly, this mod is not about Gun Pron.  Play Jagged Alliance 1.13 with "Tons and Tons of Extra Guns" for that effect. [.]]

Touchè! Ok i really stop being a wepon porn guy  :o
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 16, 2016, 03:53:41 am
I figure the Musket, Flintlock Pistol and Clockwork gun are all smoothbore pepperbox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper-box) style guns, with three barrels.  Flintlock Rifle, as has been mentioned is a rifled single shot long gun, also known as a Long Rifle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_rifle).  In game it might not be that exact type, the one in my head is specific to the North American frontier in the late 1700s and the minie ball ammo used is US civil war era, 1850s.   I wouldn't want my precision weapon to be a pepperbox, too many parts, too many places for it to break

But given that it's basically an pirate design, basically simplifying the concepts behind the guns they salvage to the point where they can build a sniper weapon and ammo with the most basic workshop, I see no problems with it, if you're unlucky enough to not get any sniper guns by the point where you can build one, it's going to be useful, if you run out of ammo for your looted sniper rifle, then it can be useful, it can potentially do really good damage for when you get it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 16, 2016, 04:48:44 pm
@ khade:  Thanks for explaining and linking the pepperbox concepts.  :)  I wasn't really aware of them.  Nice to know.  More Head Canon.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 16, 2016, 06:04:46 pm
I always imagine the muzzle loaders as abstractions of the multiple preloaded weapons practices that where very common in early muzzle loader era. It wasn't until cartridges where common that preloaded and loading assistants fell out of use in combat.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 16, 2016, 07:12:31 pm
That's how I imagine it myself. Carrying extra loaded weapons, while accurate, would make using muskets such a chore no one would do that. Even more trouble: you cannot stack items in the Inventory, so the bullets themselves would take far too much space. Except if the damage potential and long-range accuracy are interesting (as with the Flintlock Rifle).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 16, 2016, 10:09:31 pm
I figure the Musket, Flintlock Pistol and Clockwork gun are all smoothbore pepperbox (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper-box) style guns, with three barrels.  Flintlock Rifle, as has been mentioned is a rifled single shot long gun, also known as a Long Rifle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_rifle).  In game it might not be that exact type, the one in my head is specific to the North American frontier in the late 1700s and the minie ball ammo used is US civil war era, 1850s.   I wouldn't want my precision weapon to be a pepperbox, too many parts, too many places for it to break

But given that it's basically an pirate design, basically simplifying the concepts behind the guns they salvage to the point where they can build a sniper weapon and ammo with the most basic workshop, I see no problems with it, if you're unlucky enough to not get any sniper guns by the point where you can build one, it's going to be useful, if you run out of ammo for your looted sniper rifle, then it can be useful, it can potentially do really good damage for when you get it.

I think the tree barrel attribute may be put into the bootypedia  description for the musket and flintlock pistol. Maybe Dioxine agrees? :(

Some lines on the flintlock rifle: i researched it but never used in battle (!!) my hint: but the "minie ball" item should act as "container" for 5 rounds, but the rifle should host inside itself only 1 bullet per time; so this may be balanced with the hunting rifle, th wapons have  same damage (33) but the latter features clips that allow to have 5 rounds in the weapon. Or maybe the hunting wll be removed in favor of the flintlock?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 16, 2016, 10:14:20 pm
@niculinux  There's no way to stack items like that in a gal's inventory, the ammo container idea would require reworking the source code.  Also, the flintlock rifle has damage scaling with firing accuracy, so the only way the damage would be exactly equal to the hunting rifle is for the shooter to have a firing accuracy of 0.  Both weapons fill different rolls, so I doubt the flintlock will replace the hunting rifle.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 16, 2016, 10:34:23 pm
Some lines on the flintlock rifle: i researched it but never used in battle (!!) my hint: but the "minie ball" item should act as "container" for 5 rounds, but the rifle should host inside itself only 1 bullet per time; so this may be balanced with the hunting rifle, th wapons have  same damage (33) but the latter features clips that allow to have 5 rounds in the weapon. Or maybe the hunting wll be removed in favor of the flintlock?

Hmm... I remember distinctly talking about Muzzle Loaders to you a few days ago.... seems you don't listen.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 16, 2016, 10:53:39 pm
Holy christ that mansion map took forever; 62 enemies (https://i.imgur.com/249104r.png)? FML. Fun as roleplaying a bunch of sexy knife wielding serial murders was, that shit took 24 turns and I blew the place apart with TK projectors on each of my gals. Is there no other way (running like a bitch doesn't count)?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 16, 2016, 11:01:35 pm
I think I understand what you are trying to suggest, niculinux, but it sounds like we can't stack items, so no we can't have a set of 5 bullets while the gun itself only holds one at a time. . . unless the developers disagree with that statement, at least.  If we could, I'd nominate rockets and anti material shells to have that sort of thing, even just 2 rockets per slot would be wonderful. I'm sure there are other weapons that would benefit.    :)

I'll leave it to those who have looked at the code and who are smarter than me to determine if this sort of thing is actually possible.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 16, 2016, 11:02:37 pm
mansions...
they are a grind no matter how I slice them.  My first attempt with tk projectors was a miserable failure. I never breached a single wall with them. (only a few attempts honestly).

I think mansions are just a mission that takes patience and a few hours.  I like ayephones on everyone, and slave armor, but other than that, anything goes. Kill em all, spread out, and watch for blips.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 16, 2016, 11:05:52 pm
mansions...
they are a grind no matter how I slice them.  My first attempt with tk projectors was a miserable failure. I never breached a single wall with them. (only a few attempts honestly).

I think mansions are just a mission that takes patience and a few hours.  I like ayephones on everyone, and slave armor, but other than that, anything goes. Kill em all, spread out, and watch for blips.

You need gals strong with the force for TK Projectors to be worth a damn; on Gals with 40+ VDSk and 60+ VDSt they tear through the mansion with casual ease. I brought Ayephones but opted to systemically destroy the place instead of trudging slowly through it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 16, 2016, 11:08:31 pm
@khade  Yep, that sums it for how ammunition works, and now it's more of a balance feature than a limitation.  Want to carry more rockets?  Get a buddy to help you out.  It'd probably be possible to re-code the soldier inventories to allow for such a thing, but most modders don't really see it as a useful feature.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 16, 2016, 11:27:35 pm
Just trying to help articulate an idea, hope it did help.

I thought slave armor was not available in the normal game?

Two ideas:  musketeer outfit, bonus to shooting, melee, bravery and energy recovery, extremely flamboyant, somewhat flammable.  Mud, early camouflage, basically naked, zero to six item slots, depending on how naked it actually is.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 16, 2016, 11:40:32 pm

I thought slave armor was not available in the normal game?

 

Yeah, its part of Naughty mod.  I have seriously considered modding it to make it a bit less nsfw, but dayum. Them crazy stats! Its ridiculous! "Biosuit Lite" is Right!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 16, 2016, 11:42:37 pm
I meant that you can't use it unless it's a random battle, which isn't exactly useful in the game.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 16, 2016, 11:45:45 pm
Mansion? Pffft. Try doing one in the dark.
My evening yesterday was full of... darkness. With pink walls. And lots of ninja stealth.
(It's fun to be shooting a clueless guy across the ballroom.)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 17, 2016, 12:01:59 am
I meant that you can't use it unless it's a random battle, which isn't exactly useful in the game.

Um...I'm not following. The Slave Outfit is part of Naughty Mod (just enable it in Options>Mods) and is one of the allowable outfits in the Mansion.  I've been using them in my recent campaign.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 17, 2016, 12:10:12 am
Just trying to help articulate an idea, hope it did help.

I thought slave armor was not available in the normal game?

Two ideas:  musketeer outfit, bonus to shooting, melee, bravery and energy recovery, extremely flamboyant, somewhat flammable.  Mud, early camouflage, basically naked, zero to six item slots, depending on how naked it actually is.

It is available for research if you have the naughty mod enabled.
Also, you speak of Gunslinger and Goblin outfits. Both are planned from a long time ago and 20-30% done, but low-priority and challenging to draw. However you won't see an energy recovery bonus on a full suit of clothing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 17, 2016, 12:12:27 am
Ah, I guess I haven't gotten to the point where the Slave outfit is available.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 17, 2016, 01:42:48 am
Mansion? Pffft. Try doing one in the dark.
My evening yesterday was full of... darkness. With pink walls. And lots of ninja stealth.
(It's fun to be shooting a clueless guy across the ballroom.)

That's exactly what I did.

Basically the mansion denizens were hunted in the dark by estrogen-laden Michael Myers with wall destroying telekinesis.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 17, 2016, 05:26:02 pm
Hey Dioxine, if Meridian gets the new shotgun spread calculations into OXCE+, I created a small mod to test the balance out on the shotgun-style weapons in X-Piratez with what I thought were reasonable spread values based on the accuracy/range/number of pellets for each weapon.  With just a little testing, I think shotguns are going to be much more dangerous, and might even need to be toned down at a damage per pellet level.  I've attached the mod here, and can add a link to a copy of my OXCE+ .exe's if necessary.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 17, 2016, 05:48:52 pm
Thank you, I will definitely keep this. What does it do? Proper groupings of shotgun pellets? As for damage per pellet, it's quite proper IMO (Movie Shotguns). Some people will never use shotguns due to their inability to tackle armored guys anyway.

Link would be good, although I'll rather wait till Meridian pulls this into his build. I'd appreciate that a lot, Meridian :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 17, 2016, 05:59:07 pm
I posted a bit more about the changes in this thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4834.0.html), but the basic premise of the change is that when you take a shot, the hit location of the first pellet is saved, and then all the other pellets are fired around that point like an auto shot with accuracy equal to (100 - shotgunSpread) * shotgunChoke / 100, also taking into account the range/dropoff defined by the shot type on the weapon (not firing accuracy!).  This should make it like a proper grouping, and with low spreads (like 10) and the default choke (100), you get basically all the pellets on target at the maximum accurate range of the weapon.  The ruleset I made for the mod just adds values of shotgunSpread, shotgunBehavior: 1, and shotgunChoke to the appropriate items to make it easy to find/change the values for testing.

I'm compiling a windows exe right now, I'll share a link to compiled OXCE+ versions once that finishes (I only have OXCE and an ubuntu version of OXCE+ compiled right now).

Edit: Link for the executables! (https://drive.google.com/open?id=0BzdM3YhNg14pLWY4Ml9aTGZ2aTA)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 17, 2016, 09:52:35 pm
By the way, I didn't define shotgunSpread and shotgunBehavior values on some of the alternate shotgun ammunition types (any of the chem/incendiary rounds) - I don't really know how those should balance against regular piercing rounds spread-wise, so I just left them as is.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 17, 2016, 11:23:10 pm
Link would be good, although I'll rather wait till Meridian pulls this into his build. I'd appreciate that a lot, Meridian :)

I will add it today, without testing.

https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/commit/59a7e4870531019c94de5fc8b0fd6acdf919695d
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 17, 2016, 11:27:22 pm
Glad you trust that I coded the calculations correctly and that they don't need much testing :P
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 18, 2016, 01:47:37 am
It would be cool if the Zeppelin had a researchable upgrade that lowered the upkeep cost, by renting out the sides to sponsors.  Might make them have random images on the sides of the zeppelin.  It would also make it more logical that people would just ignore them, I think.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 18, 2016, 01:58:57 am
It would be cool if the Zeppelin had a researchable upgrade that lowered the upkeep cost, by renting out the sides to sponsors.  Might make them have random images on the sides of the zeppelin.  It would also make it more logical that people would just ignore them, I think.

Duff Zeppelin please; to hell with that Atom brand piss water.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 18, 2016, 10:07:54 am
It would be cool if the Zeppelin had a researchable upgrade that lowered the upkeep cost, by renting out the sides to sponsors.  Might make them have random images on the sides of the zeppelin.  It would also make it more logical that people would just ignore them, I think.

Yes, but who would sponsor a bunch o'criminals? :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 18, 2016, 10:36:22 am
The Guild, at least.  Any of them, if they weren't aware of who they were actually funding, the Zeppelin is advertising, it's there anyway, with a advertising space for rent sign, so they may as well use it, right?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 18, 2016, 11:08:00 am
The Guild, at least.  Any of them, if they weren't aware of who they were actually funding, the Zeppelin is advertising, it's there anyway, with a advertising space for rent sign, so they may as well use it, right?

Why would the Guild advertise? They have the monopoly on the most important stuff. Anyone who has another source, will probably use another source. Some countries may be an exception, but there is no free market as such on Earth.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 18, 2016, 11:21:26 am
Monopolies still need brand notoriety. Products are not stagnant unchanging things or the customer base loses interest. Some amount of advertising is needed to keep public awareness.

Alternatively it could be local government advertising.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 18, 2016, 11:23:27 am
Why would the Guild advertise? They have the monopoly on the most important stuff. Anyone who has another source, will probably use another source. Some countries may be an exception, but there is no free market as such on Earth.

Maybe the Guild wouldn't advertise but some of the arms dealers you frequent might; would be cool if the premium they paid to advertise on your ship went up with infamy: the better and scarier you are the more people will pay to have you advertise their shit. Those bloodthirsty savages who just wrecked the Academy's shit and pillaged their hideout? Yeah, our weapons made that happen; bitches fucking love our guns: just look at their giant frickin' blimp.

"This raid brought to you by Dr. Wang's mighty missiles; when you need to spread the doom, trust in Wang's loud big boom. Proud sponsor of Gals with Guns Killmurderdeathsquad Six."
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 18, 2016, 11:29:01 am
(https://www.abandonia.com/files/games/307/X-Com%20-%20Apocalypse_2.png)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 18, 2016, 12:09:24 pm
Monopolies still need brand notoriety. Products are not stagnant unchanging things or the customer base loses interest. Some amount of advertising is needed to keep public awareness.

True, but not hard to pull off when you control all major mass-media. There would be a ton of local-brand advertising in all forms, though (see Fallout 1 & 2), and even the Guild will engage in various disparate and innovative advert campaigns from time to time, as it has thousands of managers who have nothing better to do & want to show off to get promoted. As for the in-game representation? Not nearly exciting enough to code it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 18, 2016, 02:57:18 pm
0.99B just relased  ;D i forgot i wanted to point out: early game is fine as it is but i'd advice to give acces to the market not right at the beginning: that is to say "cunning" gives acces ti "contract: merchants" and then you may buy shotguns and sprayguns, but it dird nit have sence since player research hunting bows, stone axes and maces that is supposed to use forva certain period of time. By the end of jan 2601 i had acces to market, and then.mybfirst progrom was humanists with rocket launcher and lasers  :o maybe game interpret this as the player ha ing more advanced weapons? Don't know hope i express myself well.

The only thing that may be buyable at start along with the current selection at the market may be "cool clothing", and adventurer and scout armor should be separated items researchable, not avaiable from the beginning, or alternatively avaiable at ghe BM. Going to try 0.99B...[continues] (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=4058.msg69823#msg69823)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 18, 2016, 03:07:51 pm
0.99B just relased  ;D i forgot i wanted to point out: early game is fine as it is but i'd advice to give acces to the market not right at the beginning: that is to say "cunning" gives acces ti "contract: merchants" and then you may buy shotguns and sprayguns, but it dird nit have sence since player research hunting bows, stone axes and maces that is supposed to use forva certain period of time. By the end of jan 2601 i had acces to market, and then.mybfirst progrom was humanists with rocket launcher and lasers  :o maybe game interpret this as the player ha ing more advanced weapons? Don't know hope i express myself well.

I think I understand what you mean, but no, the game doesn't change enemy loadouts depending on the player. In fact, there are no changes at all.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 18, 2016, 03:09:59 pm
Early market is there for a reason. You either buy on the market, or research your own stuff. The former isn't that stellar and costs money. The latter builds up slowly but ultimately allows for better stuff.
Early market is needed lore-wise as well, and it cannot be overtaken by loot from raids - if the market was later, would anyone ever consider buying a Spraygun or even Ramshackle Rifle?

Your progress is generally completely irrelevant to enemy strength. Pogroms range from very hard to extremely hard with your starting crew, and meant as a landmark (are you tough enough to face Pogroms already?).

Why should adventurer and scout be separate? I see no reason for it, since it's the same clothing, only re-arranged. Also your hired hands naturally bring it along with 'em - you hire them in Jack's Town's bars, do you expect them to prance across the world naked?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 19, 2016, 01:08:26 am
Early market is there for a reason. You either buy on the market, or research your own stuff. The former isn't that stellar and costs money. The latter builds up slowly but ultimately allows for better stuff.
Early market is needed lore-wise as well, and it cannot be overtaken by loot from raids - if the market was later, would anyone ever consider buying a Spraygun or even Ramshackle Rifle?

Your progress is generally completely irrelevant to enemy strength. Pogroms range from very hard to extremely hard with your starting crew, and meant as a landmark (are you tough enough to face Pogroms already?).

Why should adventurer and scout be separate? I see no reason for it, since it's the same clothing, only re-arranged. Also your hired hands naturally bring it along with 'em - you hire them in Jack's Town's bars, do you expect them to prance across the world naked?

Ok got. Clearly i see it's a huge incentive ti acces to more advabced stuff with research/loot, manufacturing is secondary and anyways comes later.

As for progrom(s) as still of now (0.99B) they don't seem a "labdmark" to ne because almostvakways i get the first by the end of jan 2601 (the very beginning) unless i'm missing something.

As for the starting dresses, well nudity aside :P the rags and tribal outfits are of no relevance anymore i think, since the gal roam the world on these scout/adventurer outfit, that surely are more fit in an hostile enviroments full of dangers. Don't know if rags and tribal are still worth to be kept ingame. Oh i like also the "rogue" one, but i'd renane it "bandit"; did not researched/see "chromeback", but how to have an improved version of the pirate one, named "freebooter" or "bucaneer? I' d like the first ;)

Thats all!

Edit: usual typos
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 19, 2016, 04:57:34 am

As for progrom(s) as still of now (0.99B) they don't seem a "labdmark" to ne because almostvakways i get the first by the end of jan 2601 (the very beginning) unless i'm missing something.



They happen, but you can ignore them (with no penalty) until such time as you're confident you can beat the snot out of them, or you finish Contact: Mutant Alliance research...


I believe, anyway.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 19, 2016, 08:53:36 am
How about an advanced prison, after we figure out cryogenic storage.  Maybe not unlimited space, but it would be nice to have MORE space.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 19, 2016, 09:11:41 am
I'll add it to the list.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 20, 2016, 07:22:50 am
Pilots needed number for multiple crew craft in bootypediea entries
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 20, 2016, 09:09:35 am
Suggestions:
- Pilots should get a little bit of stat training for air fights and surveillance.
- In air combat there should be some feedback how strongly damaged the enemy craft is. Not an exact number, but something like "lightly damaged" or "heavily damaged".
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 20, 2016, 09:28:44 am
Suggestions:
- Pilots should get a little bit of stat training for air fights and surveillance.
- In air combat there should be some feedback how strongly damaged the enemy craft is. Not an exact number, but something like "lightly damaged" or "heavily damaged".

1. I'd suggest 10% chance for +10 bravery for pilot crew of size = 1; and 5% chance (per pilot) for +10 bravery for pilot crew of size > 1. Or 40% chance (per pilot) for +1 bravery.

2. I'd think that is really hard to estimate even in real life... on one hand a craft can be fatally damaged with a single burnt cable under a cockpit, on the other hand you can sometimes safely land with two engines (out of 4) in flames
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 20, 2016, 10:06:26 am
Pilots needed number for multiple crew craft in bootypediea entries

Really low on space in these articles now... If it perhaps was added to the stat block...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 20, 2016, 10:09:59 am
1. I'd suggest 10% chance for +10 bravery for pilot crew of size = 1; and 5% chance (per pilot) for +10 bravery for pilot crew of size > 1. Or 40% chance (per pilot) for +1 bravery.

2. I'd think that is really hard to estimate even in real life... on one hand a craft can be fatally damaged with a single burnt cable under a cockpit, on the other hand you can sometimes safely land with two engines (out of 4) in flames

1. Is it per engagement? Then sounds good. Maybe there should be also something for the gals hanging out in the spy zeppelin for weeks. Something similar as "dojo mechanic" but weaker.

2. Yes in real life it would be surely difficult to judge, but I think it would be good for the larger air fights with several attack craft.
For example I imagine situations where all your craft are heavily damaged or nearly run out of ammunition. Then you would usually retreat, but if you see that the enemy craft is also heavily damaged, the player is maybe convinced to stay in combat and take the risk.   
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 20, 2016, 10:15:44 am
1. Is it per engagement? Then sounds good. Maybe there should be also something for the gals hanging out in the spy zeppelin for weeks. Something similar as "dojo mechanic" but weaker.

Oh no, per downed UFO (and if multiple craft engage it, only the one which does the final hit would count).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 20, 2016, 10:19:50 am
Oh no, per downed UFO (and if multiple craft engage it, only the one which does the final hit would count).

Ah ok, but then the final hit should also have a small chance for accuracy and reactions increase.

P.S. Oh, and we need awards for fighter pilots.  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 20, 2016, 11:33:32 am
Pilots needed number for multiple crew craft in bootypediea entries

Noted. Next update.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 20, 2016, 06:14:02 pm
1. Is it per engagement? Then sounds good. Maybe there should be also something for the gals hanging out in the spy zeppelin for weeks. Something similar as "dojo mechanic" but weaker.
As far as I know, deployed crew can still be registered in training. My zeppelin gals are either:
- the worst gals of a hire cycle, since they'll never see combat (BTW, the zeppelin's maintenance cost just went up 120k because of the gals needed to crew it. Didn't check if the cost went down to compensate for the gals doing to work though)
- backup gals I don't need right now. Those are registered in a dojo or voodoo school and do their exercises on board. Presumably their gym membership includes borrowing what they need to practice on the field.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 20, 2016, 10:49:48 pm
Definitely think that 'precision' based damage types like cutting, piercing and lasers should be much less likely to outright disintegrate a target, while plasma, chem, concussive and incendiary are more so.

A psychic/VooDoo damage typing would also be desirable. I suppose 'Special' kind of encompasses it (or at least stuff that acts primarily on the mind), but it doesn't quite capture stuff like the Ghost Dagger/Beam that affects the body, nor does plasma.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on August 21, 2016, 11:26:40 am
Noted. Next update.

Added cockpit capacity to Pedia... but Dioxine will have to update the box sizes.
Shown only if pilots required > 0.

Code: [Select]
      STR_COCKPIT_CAPACITY: "PILOTS>{ALT}{0}{ALT}"
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 21, 2016, 12:31:17 pm
Definitely think that 'precision' based damage types like cutting, piercing and lasers should be much less likely to outright disintegrate a target, while plasma, chem, concussive and incendiary are more so.

This was painstakingly added on a weapon-per-weapon basis, and already works like this. There is almost no cutting weapon that can disintegrate the target, and only the most powerful lasers have that capacity.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 21, 2016, 12:48:19 pm
This was painstakingly added on a weapon-per-weapon basis, and already works like this. There is almost no cutting weapon that can disintegrate the target, and only the most powerful lasers have that capacity.

Gauss weapons disintegrate targets with alarming frequency; were you basically going for the 'Eraser' railgun effect?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 21, 2016, 01:19:12 pm
With gauss projectiles carrying that much energy, it's normal that the target should be blown into pieces.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 21, 2016, 08:08:40 pm
How much do they have to overkill by to disintegrate, or is it simply a set probability on kill?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 21, 2016, 08:59:20 pm
Depends on how heavily armored they are, generally. Disintegration happens at -50% to -100% HP, depending on specimen.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 24, 2016, 01:17:13 am
In 0.99B in the bootypedia rightvat the start of the game still are weapons (RPG and shotguns) which are accessible in the early game, but trough some research (once the topic contract: merchants is completed) So these should supposed to appear thete right after the research is complete, not before?

And why dynamite is not avaiable from the start? it's a pretty old explosive (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite) abd by the 2601 its knowkedge is supposed to be of "public domain"? On the other hand the cooking by the book research topic should lead to some other things, maybe food-related.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 24, 2016, 01:56:09 am
I always felt that "Cooking by the Book" was a reference to the Anarchists Cookbook, which would teach you how to make improvised explosives from on-hand chemicals and tools...

Actual, stable Dynamite is open source - but its difficult to actually legally acquire, after all...  Its something that would always be under regulation, as long as regulation exists...  So sure, maybe be able to purchase it...

But actually making it isn't easy.

I know.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 24, 2016, 02:02:57 am
I just found out that the airbus is currently a unique, here's a suggestion: make the first airbus have slightly different stats, someone tweaked it, tuned it, whatever, compared to what you get through the car thieves, this way you can have information on your starting vehicle and you eventually can buy more as needed.  Maybe allow the workshop to tune the new ones to the standard of your original, with the right research, so you don't need to fear selling it.

I also think that it would make sense to have the game progression largely based on your actions, specific research would move the story along and change how others respond, arm themselves, or just act in general.  The basic idea is that the pirate crew are not heroes, they're not really reacting to a scheme of some villain, they are among the ones that the world is reacting to, very little at first, but eventually even the Star Gods may come to fear them... or just destroy them outright for being a nuisance.  They are not an elite anti-terrorist/alien/heathen(cross out what does not apply) group, though they sometimes act in that capacity, how the world perceives them is up to them, or even if the world notices them at all.

Also, I seem to remember plans for different storylines based on what groups you align yourself with, be it the mutant alliance, the church, raiders, bandits, cultists of the dark gods, or even, heaven forbid, the traders.  So having the set progression based entirely on time seems like it would cause problems.

Another option would be a middle ground with some things on a timer and others based on gated research.

Did this make any actual sense? I can't currently tell
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2016, 02:20:25 am
It does makes sense, but requires enormous work, so... maybe someday :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 24, 2016, 03:38:57 am
Honestly what I would love to see more than anything is Eckskawm Apocalypse style diplomacy between the Govts, factions and the Galz, albeit done right.

Govts might fight amongst themselves, and send kill teams/Ordinators to fuck each other up.

Maybe the Raiders and EuroSyndicate have been at odds with the other, and harming the former makes the latter especially happy.

Mercenaries are mad cause you keep wrecking their shit while they're trying to purge mutants for the Humanists... but tens of millions of tribute payments later and you're good buddies and they go fuck up the Humanists instead... at least until the Guild pays them more to take you out after having countless ships victimized with their Crackdowns yielding no results.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2016, 03:59:36 am
Honestly what I would love to see more than anything is Eckskawm Apocalypse style diplomacy between the Govts, factions and the Galz, albeit done right.

It's not a game about diplomacy... And if it was, the complexity would be higher than in Europe Universalis, since it'd have to account for mutiple value systems, various techs, traditions and aliens. Maybe it's a work cut out for someone out there, but I'll pass. I tend to be scared of going down the roads of exponentially increasing complexity that can take a lifetime to travel.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 24, 2016, 04:02:54 am
Apocalypse wasn't a game about diplomacy either, but even with its simplistic 'enemy of my enemy is my friend'/bribery implementation, it added a nice touch to the game.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2016, 04:16:29 am
Don't make me laugh... sure it was tantalizing, and a cool touch, but once you played the game a bit, you quickly realized that the solution to all diplomacy was 'throw some money at it'. Also, perhaps even more importantly, there was little to be gained from having good relations with factions, and little to lose from having bad relations. I feel like the diplomacy model in Apoc was maybe 10% done. However, with OpenApoc, we might yet see it perfected someday...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 24, 2016, 04:22:38 am
If there was little to lose from having bad relations, it was due to the fact that base defenses were so hilariously easy and trivial with good base design and the turrets facilities. Good relations with Megapol was substantive, but I agree, beyond that there wasn't much, but there easily could have been with something as easy to implement as more roaming armed vehicles (or vehicles deploying during alien invasions) and friendly security helping you during extermination missions.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DoktorV on August 24, 2016, 05:55:17 am
I haven't gotten very far in any of my campaign attempts, partially because I'm not very good and partially because I just don't have a lot of time lately. As such, this may be redundant or otherwise out of place, but it occurred to me that bolas might be an interesting low tech throwing weapon. If the lack of less-lethal throwing weapons is not a deliberate decision, it might have an interesting tactical role perhaps.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 24, 2016, 07:40:11 pm
If we get bolas there must be a grenade-bola upgrade.
Two grenades worth of power utterly horrible accuracy.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 24, 2016, 08:16:03 pm
Bolas is a nice idea, a "ranged" stun weapon 8). Grenade bolas: no please, since there are plenty of explosives already.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 24, 2016, 08:48:47 pm
I was playing with the idea of bolas/net; but both are mainly constraining weapons, not stunning weapons. I couldn't figure out how it should work in-engine; TU/Energy drain by itself is kinda weak IMO; TU drain only affects Reactions, and AI units usually regain energy very very fast - and no Energy is needed to fire guns. Also there already are weapons that drain TUs, like spear.
However, there is ineed little in the way of early ranged Stun weapons...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 24, 2016, 09:29:39 pm
Early ranged stun would be nice, but I thought the idea was that ranged stun should be bad early on to favor the more risky "rush in for captures". The harpoon gun is usable once you get decent firers to actually hit, maybe some buff in armor penetration for the darts (you only need a scratch for the tranquilizer to work) and a blowdart version could work?

Depending on the range, bolas could be really neat or not really all that interesting. The whip is a "ranged" stunner and also suffers from this. Unless bolas are really useless (at which point why implement them?), I can hardly see an implementation of bolas that wouldn't make the whip entirely redundant (it is already often better to take 2-3 extra steps and hit the people with a handle).

In my experience (now 3 years in), throwing weapons are actually really good. I regularly use javelins and fuso knives even with my main team because there is nothing that is approaching the kind of damage they deal without having a significantly higher price/shot, especially one handed ( I did increase the range of the javelin by changing its maxRange into a aimRange though, with severe accuracy loss past it. Although given the accuracy multiplier, it isn't too much of an issue). Even Disc'o'Death were discarded as "too expensive and bulky" compared to the lowly Fuso knives, as the gals could achieve similar damage values and knives are cheap. Bow scaling and arcing shots also keeps them relevant through significant advances in gun tech.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Starving Poet on August 24, 2016, 10:49:59 pm
I was playing with the idea of bolas/net; but both are mainly constraining weapons, not stunning weapons. I couldn't figure out how it should work in-engine; TU/Energy drain by itself is kinda weak IMO; TU drain only affects Reactions, and AI units usually regain energy very very fast - and no Energy is needed to fire guns. Also there already are weapons that drain TUs, like spear.
However, there is ineed little in the way of early ranged Stun weapons...

I think constraining weapons would be effective; so long as they prevent turning as well.  Then you could follow up with your melee stun girls.  Maybe give them a chance for the target "throw" their equipped weapon to replicate how they are often used for disarmament.  Bolas, nets, caltrops, weighted chains, or even a capture pole.   A little bit more early-game flavor. 

Regardless, they would require whole new mechanics to work.

/edit:

Unless they offered a guaranteed (if they hit) stun, but it's only for a turn or two, so that you'd have to get a girl on top of them before they get back up.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 24, 2016, 10:58:18 pm
[...]
Unless they offered a guaranteed (if they hit) stun, but it's only for a turn or two, so that you'd have to get a girl on top of them before they get back up.

Yes, the stunning capacity should be more weak than the melee ones.

As for the 0.99B i noticed the fuel capacity of the airbus has been reduced, while the one of the aircar and aisspeeder is increased, this enforces new strategies, but at the same time i'd advice (do not know if possible) to have a bit more grouded shipping in the early game, since for even 6-7 months sometimes i am not able  to grund assault anything. For instance in the attached screenshots, with the new airbus seems i caannot travel between continents anymore and consequentially can not do progrom and ther ground missions.

Ather possible thing would be to implement (as naughty mod) the 16 bases patch (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4844.msg69544.html#msg69544) for those who might want, others may be simply not activate it, point is the piratez may build as mus bases as they can unless they have money, so it would be kinda "realistic". )
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 25, 2016, 12:47:12 am
Really? I had no issue going to North America from Creta for a tower mission.. I do agree that it would be nice if we had more "requireBase" missions in the early game and if civilians landed a bit more.

Although the suggestion to reduce landings was a good one (before you didn't really need to intercept anything), now the landings are quite a bit rarer, and Hellerium too as a consequence (since shooting down UFOs mean ~60% to destroy the engine or something). Combined with the reduction to 25 Hellerium per engine, farming for capsules might be a bit of a pain.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 25, 2016, 12:59:35 am
Early on, you can get guaranteed hellerium from civvies by disassembling the small engines.  For fuel capsules, manufacturing for cash then buying seems quicker anyways, shootdowns are just a bonus.  I heard it mentioned a while ago, but maybe fuel capsules could be loot from a late-game mission.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ivandogovich on August 25, 2016, 01:01:51 am
Early on, you can get guaranteed hellerium from civvies by disassembling the small engines.  For fuel capsules, manufacturing for cash then buying seems quicker anyways, shootdowns are just a bonus.  I heard it mentioned a while ago, but maybe fuel capsules could be loot from a late-game mission.

There is a trickle of fuel capsules in the Gifts of Love missions. ;) also lots of other nice loots!  Listen to everything that mysterious admirer has to say!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: ohartenstein23 on August 25, 2016, 01:04:38 am
I did not know that, good news indeed!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on August 25, 2016, 01:06:39 am
Really? I had no issue going to North America from Creta for a tower mission..

Things are painful, because the Airbus is the very starting vessel, though battery powered. Probably becsuse - forgot to tell - i always "experiment"  on the "Jack Sparrow" difficulty level, don know if that might be..

Edit: Another possible cool craft name: Airbud? Though in my effirt, since i started to play xpiratez, never passed december 2601 (!!!) exept a couple of times i reached march 2602.  :o
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: KanjiFX on August 25, 2016, 01:25:25 am
I'm not sure if this would be an improvement, but I think it would be cool to see more outfits and armor that have shields, like the Plate Mail armor.  I wouldn't mind seeing a smaller shield go with the Scale Mail armor. 
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: LandrewHun on August 25, 2016, 01:41:58 am
I'm not sure if this would be an improvement, but I think it would be cool to see more outfits and armor that have shields, like the Plate Mail armor.  I wouldn't mind seeing a smaller shield go with the Scale Mail armor.

I'm also interested in more shields like early shields for player or even "Templar's" armed with Shields and Melee weapons.
Church of Sirius would possible to have a secret Order of Knights. Ratmans with shields would be an overkill. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 25, 2016, 02:02:36 am
Ratmans with shields would be an overkill. :)

You mean Ratmen on shields?

(https://www.co-optimus.com/images/upload/image/2012/bl2%20cap%204.jpg)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 25, 2016, 08:10:10 am
Things are painful, because the Airbus is the very starting vessel, though battery powered. Probably becsuse - forgot to tell - i always "experiment"  on the "Jack Sparrow" difficulty level, don know if that might be..

Edit: Another possible cool craft name: Airbud? Though in my effirt, since i started to play xpiratez, never passed december 2601 (!!!) exept a couple of times i reached march 2602.  :o
Yes, I made that comment regarding the starting craft. Talking about other crafts would be so irrelevant that I didn't think of specifying that I did. No, difficulty has no impact on the range of different crafts.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you don't strike me as a Jack Sparrow. Maybe Blackbeard or Davey Jones would allow you to play longer.

Re: shields
I'd love more shields too! A riot shield for tac or heavy armor (increase some chem/concussive/cutting res but not armor values to represent deflection but the shield not being able to stop bullets), some buckler for scale, etc. The idea of keeping a piece of solid material between yourself and harmful stuff is pretty basic and given the availability of plastasteel, I'm surprised the gals don't do it more. Hell, even a reaper hide shield for tribal/barbarian/amazon outfit would be cool for the truly primitive (hide shield and javelin gals covered by bows gals) vibe.

That hide shield idea would fit well with a wild reaper hunt too! It would be nice to see more of the big guys, or even brave a chryssalid hive tunnel to get those chitin plates for xeno armor.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 25, 2016, 11:30:44 am
More shields would be neat from a variety standpoint. But anything that grants a STR scaling stun is really strong. Getting it too early on a defensive armor..... unbalancing.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: DoktorV on August 25, 2016, 05:03:03 pm
As for ranged stun weapons at the low end of the scale - throwing rocks has been known to work. But, that got me thinking, and perhaps this is too silly even for an admittedly somewhat silly game, but what about baseballs? Not because baseballs are particularly special as projectile weapons, but because we already have bats and it would perhaps tie in with a baseball team uniform outfit :-p
With small bonuses to melee, throwing, and voodoo (because baseball players are some of the most superstitious people around)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 25, 2016, 05:30:17 pm
More shields would be neat from a variety standpoint. But anything that grants a STR scaling stun is really strong. Getting it too early on a defensive armor..... unbalancing.

Don't the handle and knuckle also scale with STR? Obviously, a shield bash with a hide shield or buckler wouldn't be nearly as potent as one with a tower shield. In fact, I could see higher base damage (it's easier to move compared to the heavy tower shield, so you don't need to be as strong to fight its inertia) but lower scaling (its lower mass means less impact, once you are strong enough to get it moving, than the heavy tower shield provides). I think adding to the variety of armors and enabling more specialization for those who want it without having to sprite new armors (shields are pretty easy, just a new handob and bigob)

As for ranged stun weapons at the low end of the scale - throwing rocks has been known to work. But, that got me thinking, and perhaps this is too silly even for an admittedly somewhat silly game, but what about baseballs? Not because baseballs are particularly special as projectile weapons, but because we already have bats and it would perhaps tie in with a baseball team uniform outfit :-p
With small bonuses to melee, throwing, and voodoo (because baseball players are some of the most superstitious people around)
lol baseballs and related outfits would be a bit much, but we've got superheroes already so.. Rocks are a pretty good idea, we've already gotten apples as throwables, maybe rocks could do similar stun but a bit of lethal damage too (making them a bit better at stunning, but also potentially able to kill the target).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Drasnighta on August 25, 2016, 06:39:35 pm
...  Superslaves throw Rocks already.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 25, 2016, 09:32:07 pm
Yes, but he's the only one who gets them!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: BetaSpectre on August 25, 2016, 09:33:21 pm
Yes, but he's the only one who gets them!

I agree, batman's zapper, academy drones, dogs, and other creatures would be fun to have around IMO.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 25, 2016, 09:54:42 pm
We do have attack dogs. You just need the right research to unlock them. I keep a few guard dogs at each hideout as they can be handy in base defenses. My most important bases get guard reapers (but I've never bothered with tanks and cyberdiscs, waiting to see what's the really best I can make out of those scarce resources. You can also get pet cyclops which should be pretty handy, although I haven't gotten the tech yet.. I would love some pet lobsterman too. Feed it some rotten seal meat (or mutant meat) to keep it happy at the base, and let it lose on your enemies if the invade you.

Chryssalids and celatids though, meh.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: CanadianBeaver on August 25, 2016, 10:06:26 pm
I agree, batman's zapper, academy drones, dogs, and other creatures would be fun to have around IMO.

Please, do not forget about spider-man and green Kick-Ass (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kick-Ass_(film))!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: clownagent on August 26, 2016, 09:25:37 am
Some more suggestions:

1. It should be possible to convert captured ratman dogs into attack dogs.
2. The animal poison could be used to poison also arrows and javelins and maybe fuso knives.
3. There is already gauss and laser weapon disassembly/assembly, so there could also be conventional weapon assembly/disassembly. (Precision weapon parts, musket parts, cannon parts, small arms mechanics)
It would make the production of the custom guns (shooty gun, custom snipin gun, ...) more flexible. Now you need specific weapons to find, like "3 assault rifles + sniper rifle + slave AI" for producing the snipin gun. With the assembly/disassembly tech you could make it to for example to "3 precision weapon parts + 4 small arms mechanics + slave AI "
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 26, 2016, 10:46:58 am
1. It should be possible to convert captured ratman dogs into attack dogs.

Dioxine stated already at some point that it's not cool, because dogs are too faithful and friendly to be repurposed by enemies, or something along these lines.

2. The animal poison could be used to poison also arrows and javelins and maybe fuso knives.

That would be nice, though I have no idea how it'd work, mechanically.

3. There is already gauss and laser weapon disassembly/assembly, so there could also be conventional weapon assembly/disassembly. (Precision weapon parts, musket parts, cannon parts, small arms mechanics)
It would make the production of the custom guns (shooty gun, custom snipin gun, ...) more flexible. Now you need specific weapons to find, like "3 assault rifles + sniper rifle + slave AI" for producing the snipin gun. With the assembly/disassembly tech you could make it to for example to "3 precision weapon parts + 4 small arms mechanics + slave AI "

Yes, it's tempting, but it would also be an enormous work for the modder. And would make a monstrous production list. :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 26, 2016, 12:25:28 pm
1. Yeah. Do you really think you can kill dog's masters and then be friends with the dog? Dogs aren't as treacherous as humans :)

2. And bayonets, and spears, and swords! Game-wise, as far as poison goes, in the melee department, you have the dagger, in ranged - blowpipe.

3. The list of key weapons used for parts is rather short, with very few common parts. More often it's just 'add flashy bitz to a gun'. The design you've mentioned does seems natural, and it sits in my 'maybe?' list for a long time now. One advantage would be that you won't have to store whole guns. But I don't know, if it's really worth it.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 26, 2016, 04:25:26 pm
Given the number of guns, that's a lot of new workshop projects. But with the categories and quicksearch, that's not nearly as bad as with the vanilla UI.

I think it would be nice for weapons to depend on pieces instead of other full weapons. My stores are still full or random crap "just in case". You never know what devious component Dioxine puts as a requirement ;) maybe the best gun in the game requires a black march smg to manufacture and, knowing myself, I'll have sold my stock of whatever is needed an hour before the research completed thinking "I'll never need that crap again!" After my Kustom Shooty gun experience, I now have a dedicated hoard base where I ship pretty much every weapon and funky sort of rare item I find.

Having ~6 conventional weapon parts like the other ones would make it possible to salvage from whatever encounter and lessen the dependence on fighting the right faction and then getting the right weapon.

That does change the availability of some weapons though, potentially making Kustom Shooty guns and reaper rifles more common. But those aren't really general issue guns to spam so it should be ok.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 27, 2016, 11:59:12 am
Good point, Arthanor.
Keeping a box of gunlocks is more organized than keeping a box of assorted firearms...
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 27, 2016, 02:44:46 pm
Meridian added r-click feature that allows you to see if any given crap can be further developed into something or not.
Also to keep to the spirit of upgrades I'd have to add more extra items than there are relevant guns (afair anything other than assault rifle, battle rifle, mil shotgun, sniper rifle & LMG are straight upgrades; more, 2 of these 5 have straight upgrades too - so dismantling them would turn out to be a so-called 'noob trap', unless re-assembly projects were added...).
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 27, 2016, 05:40:13 pm
Maybe a few assembly projects would be enough? Assault pistol, assault rifle, military shotgun, sniper rifles: the "classic" items. If you disassembled your BM-SMG into the box of parts, too bad. You can put pieces back together, but in the box they look all the same so what you get is the "average" instead. Being able to assemble LACCs, LC and ACs would be neat too.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 27, 2016, 08:06:12 pm
Maybe. I'm not ruling it out, eventually. But for now, too much work for too little gain.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 27, 2016, 09:46:31 pm
Random idea, either the dumbest or most genius one I've had, I honestly can't tell:

It should be possible to run into civilians who on noticing your gals, do 'something' and suddenly there's a reaper or something between them and whatever they feel threatened by.  Basically players of an augmented reality game, the summoned creature might be a normal hologram, and therefore can be ignored, a hard light hologram, which can't be ignored, but will go away if you beat down the player, or an actual summoned beast, in which case things can get messy, with no major indication of which you've got.  The only item that would actually be useful to the gals, I think, would be the second, first could be broken down into a computer and some sort of projector, second into Church forcefield stuff, and I have no idea what the third could be broken down into.

An important part of this idea is that if you have a gal using one of these devices, she can summon her own creature, and as long as no one attacks the player, the two creatures will fight, if yours wins, the player will surrender, while if the player wins, you have an option to abort the mission, as if all your gals were safely in the ship.  Aborting would give you a decent score, for playing along, while declining, clubbing the player, and finishing normally will have a decent sized negative infamy for dishonorable conduct.

Basically, you'd have the option to decide the fight through a childrens card game. :)

So, moronic or genius?  ;D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Star_Treasure on August 29, 2016, 06:58:38 am
So moronic it crosses over into genius. I assume it would be an Ayephone ability or something?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 29, 2016, 03:58:16 pm
Phantom beasts and holo-images aren't moronic. The whole 'augmented reality game' spin doesn't make sense, since it's a military-grade tech; but I can imagine Church or Star Gods or Gals summoning holo-images, some of which are actually capable of doing damage to enemy (phantom beasts made of forcefields). However currently there is no support for in-battle unit spawning, except the 'zombie' variety.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: alinare on August 29, 2016, 04:06:24 pm
It occurs to me, introduce simple frames, taken from a movie, like finding an old mythical object. For example, one that has always struck me as interesting: Treasure of the Four Crowns, 1983, where a group of adventurers, has to be done with an old and powerful treasure, hidden in a crown of Visigoth origin, in the hands of a dangerous sectarian guru who keeps hidden in an ancient walled city, in the Pyrenees.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on August 30, 2016, 02:04:53 am
The game thing was more a reference to yugioh, the hard light ones would be military, actual summons would probably be demonic in nature, while the pure hologram ones would be expensive toys, use against your gals it would be either sheer stupidity or a bluff.  Another option would be the super tech holding cells for combat trained monsters(pokemon).

See why I had difficulty telling if it was stupid or a good idea?
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: nrafield on August 30, 2016, 06:17:43 pm
How about having a few civillians be armed so they can attack the enemies during a Pogrom? Could potentially make a few interesting situations, as long as they weren't shooting your forces as well.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on August 30, 2016, 06:22:55 pm
Armed.civilians has been a long standing request. It has been implemented in the nightly version, so next time Yankees updates it might get in. I'm hoping we can see those big muon looking mutants punch a few heads when it comes about :D
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on August 30, 2016, 10:16:15 pm
Lol if those mutons had guns. Hilarious to be sure but more balancing....bleh.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Surrealistik on August 30, 2016, 10:36:35 pm
Muton/'Brute' civs should at least be able to falcon punch people just like the Merc Commando can.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 30, 2016, 10:47:42 pm
Muton/'Brute' civs should at least be able to falcon punch people just like the Merc Commando can.

Seconded!
Well, with a far weaker attack, of course.

And the lamias would bite! :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 30, 2016, 10:56:59 pm
It'd be totally unbalanced, ofc. They'd get a random assortment of shitty guns and other shitty weapons. And built-in melee attacks. Not everyone.
The more exciting consequence of such mechanics would be adding whole damned battles, like eg. Mutant Alliance vs. Bandits, player helping with fort defense or sth. Especially if it was somehow possible to restrict spawning enemies / neutrals on parts of maps.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: KateMicucci on August 31, 2016, 02:42:57 am
In the original Deus Ex there is a tiny plasma gun called the PS-20. It only holds a single shot.

I think that would be a fun addition to the game, if it was randomly given to some civilians to make them much more potentially dangerous without giving the gals a powerful gun too easily or too early. It would also be nice to have a single-square holdout weapon besides the tiny pistol and revolver.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on August 31, 2016, 03:35:09 am
Mhm... there is certainly a space for something like that.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on September 02, 2016, 01:44:02 pm
Hey, i must write that the disc o' death was a nice touch, inspired by 1990's movie "i come in peace" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Come_in_Peace)?

As fot the soldie diaries brake into 0.99A, i was wndering, in the recap screen after a battle, instead of first award, second award and so on, might be displayed the exect ward name instead (eg. some kind of best friend, etc.)

(kinda of) explanatory screenshot attached :)
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on September 02, 2016, 01:46:32 pm
Hey, i must write that the disc o' death was a nice touch, inspired by 1990's movie "i come in peace" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Come_in_Peace)?

Wrong movie, think of something WAY more known.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Meridian on September 02, 2016, 02:14:07 pm
Wrong movie, think of something WAY more known.

mortal kombat?

As for the soldier diaries brake into 0.99A, i was wondering, in the recap screen after a battle, instead of first award, second award and so on, might be displayed the exact ward name instead (eg. some kind of best friend, etc.)

(kinda of) explanatory screenshot attached :)

I am slowly dying inside every time I read any of your comments.

The exact name of award as shown in bootypedia is also shown on this screen... IN YELLOW HIGHLIGHTED TEXT, so that nobody can miss it. Except for you of course.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: niculinux on September 02, 2016, 03:44:39 pm
mortal kombat?

The exact name of award as shown in bootypedia is also shown on this screen... IN YELLOW HIGHLIGHTED TEXT, so that nobody can miss it. Except for you of course.

ok, realized later...sorry  :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: HelmetHair on September 02, 2016, 06:55:25 pm
Armed.civilians has been a long standing request. It has been implemented in the nightly version, so next time Yankees updates it might get in. I'm hoping we can see those big muon looking mutants punch a few heads when it comes about :D

Wait! What? This has come to pass? Holy shit... I thought I'd be in the ground by then.

Could you kindly point me at it so I can take a good look at it?? I am silly excited for no reason.

thanks!!!

-HH
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on September 03, 2016, 08:47:49 am
I've heard this topic might be at the end of its life, but I have another suggestion that just fits best here:  A hotkey that would turn off the flight module for the selected unit, drops them to the ground really fast.  Should take some TUs and maybe give stun damage base on fall distance, though that's a slippery slope.  If we get a temporary flight spell, as the voodoo topic is suggesting, I'd request that it not be able to be canceled in this manner. Magical levitation has its risks.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: dedok13x on September 03, 2016, 04:08:02 pm
Hello everyone!
First of all: many thanks Dioxine for such great mod and Meridian for his really important addings.

My 2 cents for topic (hope this is NOT wrong topic for this): it makes sense to sell credit chips for a lower price. 50%, maybe. Because who needs buy currency from crime organization for its "nominal" price? Also 50% because for higher rate exists another corruption schemes for making money from air (for more realism, in other words). And to offset this make new research topic and workshop project - "Сounterfeit money" but not necessary (because I like Xpiratez for it "constant lack of money mode", makes me to use "Finanses" and "Base maintenance" buttons")

P.S. Sorry for my english  :(


Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on September 03, 2016, 05:22:50 pm
I think you can consider that you use the credit chips to pay for stuff instead of the money in your funds. Having to sell the chips before buying stuff is just the current mechanic because the engine doesn't let you give actual money as loot for enemies.

Also, counterfeiting is in. Just keep playing. There's hardly a money making crime you can't do in this mod.

Hey Dioxine, what about taking assassination contracts? That's one that isn't there yet.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Dioxine on September 03, 2016, 05:31:45 pm
Planned in the future.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: Arthanor on September 03, 2016, 06:18:22 pm
Of course! What won't be in Piratez? :) Always looking forward to more content!
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: khade on September 05, 2016, 01:54:15 am
From a slightly different perspective, you need to convert the credits into an easier to use currency, as an example, converting hundred dollar bills into ones, fives, tens, twenties, whatever.  Assuming your gals are smart enough, it shouldn't be hard to get full price for the credits, it's just a matter of going to a bank or the equivalent and converting them into more useful types of money, choose well and there shouldn't even be a service fee.

What could be fun is looting different currencies, used by some of the smaller factions or magacorps of the setting, that converting into useful cash does require dealing with conversion costs. Like the NCR dollar to bottlecap, from Fallout.  It might even be possible to make the exchange rates fluctuate, allowing you to try to wait for a profit, though probably that's far more work than anyone really wants to do.
Title: Re: Suggestions on how to improve the mod
Post by: legionof1 on September 05, 2016, 05:34:42 am
Meh unless business models are part of your gameplay just leave wealth as wealth. New Vegas even did this with multiple currencies because the conversion was fixed. It was all just fluffyness along the lines of gems, Electrum, and platinum in DnD. At the end of the day still generic wealth as far as the player is concerned.