Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1112723 times)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #180 on: June 10, 2015, 06:43:22 pm »
That's actually a pretty cool idea! A mind probe with LoS requirement can be done in even regular OpenXCom, that's what the psi line of sight mod does (as well as doing it on psi-amps and on the alien psi-weapon). Not much of a spy glass though, as it would require to be within 20 tiles, but I guess you're really using it to look at your target in details, instead of seeing them from far away.

Hmm I didn't know that. Still, seeing your enemy's stats, name and rank seems a bit hardcore for just a spyglass... A Mind Probe costs a small fortune precisely because it is so powerful, unlimited range or not.

Another thing that could help new players: A bit of foreshadowing on assault rifles? Something like: "Not all parts of this gun are made equal. With the right combination, we could put some wicked gun together." I sold all the assault rifles I found in the early game because they weren't useful at he time. Now I sorely regret it! It feels like a trap for newbies, since one is sure to remember for a later playthrough.

Let's not be overtly dramatic, afair you need a couple of them for some guns that can easily be replaced with other guns. The thing the mod isn't lacking is a variety of guns. Can't have that one? Well too bad, use some other. Besides assault rifles are pretty easy to get. If you really want to point out the things that make you cry if you weren't a hoarder, I'd suggest Revenant Armor or VooDoo stuff :)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #181 on: June 10, 2015, 07:26:52 pm »
Hmm I didn't know that. Still, seeing your enemy's stats, name and rank seems a bit hardcore for just a spyglass... A Mind Probe costs a small fortune precisely because it is so powerful, unlimited range or not.
Too bad you can't restrict the information you get. Although name and rank are much less of an issue in Piratez since they all look different any ways. After encountering your first few of anything, you quickly learn what they are (and I encountered mercenaries last night, I can say those were what I encountered in my first game. Just confused the black ones with TftD armor because my first encounters were in pitch black darkness).

Quote
Let's not be overtly dramatic, afair you need a couple of them for some guns that can easily be replaced with other guns. The thing the mod isn't lacking is a variety of guns. Can't have that one? Well too bad, use some other. Besides assault rifles are pretty easy to get. If you really want to point out the things that make you cry if you weren't a hoarder, I'd suggest Revenant Armor or VooDoo stuff :)
Well, it looks like a wicked gun, and I don't like newbie traps :P I'm researching some fancy guns I have no idea about now, we'll see if they replace it! Been using heavy and auto-cannons for now. Eventually I'll make some progress towards laser/gauss, but firearms seem ok for now.

Offline Yankes

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #182 on: June 10, 2015, 07:52:04 pm »
Can a Mind Probe with LOS requirement be done with OXE functionality? I was thinking about a Spyglass item, which would function as smaller Mind Probe and has a fixed or lower TU cost.
Dropping a couple of those into starting inventory might be a great help for new players.
This is already done. "LOSRequired" is what you want. Even more you can do it in vanilla version :D

Offline pilot00

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #183 on: June 10, 2015, 11:03:57 pm »
Well, I wouldn't give him a real weapon at all, but I think I understand why this might be necessary for balancing. Therefore, I vote for the flamer - he needs something to heat up that bong anyways.

I'd advice against this, because (1) the next "superhero" will be a slave (i.e., gladiatrix) that can be used to catch more slaves, which is boring enough on its own and (2) it would make the green lighter far too usefull.
Spoiler:
As it is, the time giver and explosion might be too much (e.g., you could send a gal in close combat, then send gl after her, giving her tu, use these to get her out of there. Then the enemy shoots gl. Boom.).

Given the fact that he will have 3 uses of 30-40 stun damage its pretty much useless for more than a single slave and that is regular human nothing more fancy. But I can get behind the boring part.

EDIT: Hoho, I found a silly idea. Have him throw flares, no more than 3 though.

This is already done. "LOSRequired" is what you want. Even more you can do it in vanilla version :D

Yeh, but its a double edged sword, you gut all psi in the process.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2015, 11:10:12 pm by pilot00 »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #184 on: June 10, 2015, 11:33:48 pm »
Yeh, but its a double edged sword, you gut all psi in the process.

You do if you set it to true for everything. But it is an item property you can set for each and every item you have.

I have made a psi-mod (yet unreleased) where there are two versions of the psi-amp. One is easy to get but requires LoS, the other is much harder but doesn't. If I remember well, OXCE also allows you to set different "alien psi-weapons" so you could have certain races that can only do psi in LoS while others don't require it, or have aliens "upgrade" their psi-capabilities as time goes by.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #185 on: June 10, 2015, 11:37:05 pm »
I'd like a "Spy Scope" - Telescope tool, that will help me ID enemies so I have half a clue what faction they are etc.  Having to play 3-5 missions against a faction to be able to kindof figure it out feels a little grindy. 

Offline Yankes

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #186 on: June 11, 2015, 12:10:32 am »
You do if you set it to true for everything. But it is an item property you can set for each and every item you have.

I have made a psi-mod (yet unreleased) where there are two versions of the psi-amp. One is easy to get but requires LoS, the other is much harder but doesn't. If I remember well, OXCE also allows you to set different "alien psi-weapons" so you could have certain races that can only do psi in LoS while others don't require it, or have aliens "upgrade" their psi-capabilities as time goes by.
Exactly, overall in OXCE you can have lot of different  flavors of psi-amp e.g. only panic, only mc, different power/range etc.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #187 on: June 11, 2015, 12:18:25 am »
I'd like a "Spy Scope" - Telescope tool, that will help me ID enemies so I have half a clue what faction they are etc.  Having to play 3-5 missions against a faction to be able to kindof figure it out feels a little grindy.

What would be the point of capturing and researching them if everything was given on a silver plate? Two words: NO TUTORIAL. I hate tutorials. After finishing the tutorial, there is often little left to actually play.

Given the fact that he will have 3 uses of 30-40 stun damage its pretty much useless for more than a single slave and that is regular human nothing more fancy. But I can get behind the boring part.

EDIT: Hoho, I found a silly idea. Have him throw flares, no more than 3 though.


1. I'm not keen on limited ammo for HWP units. If you have to limit the ammo, your HWP weapon is probably too powerful.
2. I gave him 2 weapons exactly to make it impossible for him to throw anything.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:23:20 am by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #188 on: June 11, 2015, 12:19:38 am »
Exactly, overall in OXCE you can have lot of different  flavors of psi-amp e.g. only panic, only mc, different power/range etc.
And since aliens get their items by rank, presumably you could have different psi-weapons for different aliens, allowing scary sectoid commanders but weaker sectoid leaders and the like (not sure about Piratez specifically, only encountered a little bit of voodoo stuff...)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #189 on: June 11, 2015, 12:24:43 am »
And since aliens get their items by rank, presumably you could have different psi-weapons for different aliens, allowing scary sectoid commanders but weaker sectoid leaders and the like (not sure about Piratez specifically, only encountered a little bit of voodoo stuff...)

Quite pointless to give them psi items because they can have build-in psi capability, leaving both of their hands free to do conventional harm :P

Offline pilot00

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #190 on: June 11, 2015, 12:35:30 am »

1. I'm not keen on limited ammo for HWP units. If you have to limit the ammo, your HWP weapon is probably too powerful.
2. I gave him 2 weapons exactly to make it impossible for him to throw anything.

Flare gun, not throwable.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #191 on: June 11, 2015, 12:39:12 am »
He has a "flare gun" already - a tiny flamethrower :). Literal flare ammo, which stays on the ground and gives off light is impossible to make atm.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #192 on: June 11, 2015, 12:49:23 am »
I hadn't seen this post before:
What would be the point of capturing and researching them if everything was given on a silver plate? Two words: NO TUTORIAL. I hate tutorials. After finishing the tutorial, there is often little left to actually play.
Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..

Quite pointless to give them psi items because they can have build-in psi capability, leaving both of their hands free to do conventional harm :P
I mean you can set which "alien psi-weapon" they will use. Although the ability is built in, it still calls on a certain item (which you can see modified in the psi-LOS mod).

Removing that item makes the game crash as soon as an alien tries to use it (since it is calling on an item that doesn't exist). To get no psi, you set the TU cost to 999. OXC only uses one psi-weapon, which means any tweak you do will affect all psi-aliens. But OXCE allows you to set which item is referenced by which alien in the armor section so you can actually change which they use.

That would allow a tweaking of psi-capabilities for different aliens, changing the TU cost (and thus ability to use certain powers) of different enemies. You could have certain "intimidating" enemies be able to use panic only, and only in LoS (and maybe with a big range malus, so they are really scary up close but not so much from afar). Weaker psi-enemies who can only affect you in LoS while stronger ones don't need LoS, etc. The only thing I'm not sure is if the AI can use the "special attack" of psi-items to actually deal damage like the player can.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2015, 12:54:55 am by Arthanor »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #193 on: June 11, 2015, 12:57:56 am »
I hadn't seen this post before:Well, although that's true, there is a huge difference in replay value for Piratez. Playing through the first time is like a really long tutorial where you learn the factions, ships and tech, and the second playthrough is very different. The first playthrough actually feels a lot like a tutorial..

That was unexpected. Most people think that the difficulty is high enough, or even too high... But I can ramp it up more if it really feels too much like a tutorial.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [TOTAL CONVERSION] Piratez Extended
« Reply #194 on: June 11, 2015, 03:36:45 am »
I'll just say that if I were to do this again, I'd never try LPing PirateZ blind.  There is way to much of the "I don't know what the heck is going on, and what my objectives should be" in this environment.   If not from tips and comments from other experienced players, I probably would have thrown in the towel a while ago.   

Just to go back to my "spy glass" (that will never happen), I don't feel at all like it would be handing the game on a platter.  It would just give the race and rank.  Right now, I still have no clue between an Academician and an Academy Medic.  Until I research them, I won't.  But it would be nice to have the option of having a rare item, like a spy glass, on one trooper in the crew be able to help me get a clue with what I'm dealing with.... if they have TUs... and a line of sight to the enemy.  That way, it could help figure out armor level.  I can't figure out when they are wearing armor and when they aren't.  It might just help figure out if its suicidal or not trying to thump someone or if they are worth the effort.  I don't think its OP, but I doubt that matters.

I think the only way to have success in PirateZ is to play it through once as far as you can.  Then go break down the ruleset and analyze all the goodies.  Figure out what works and what doesn't.   Then start a game where you know what you are doing.  Just my two cents. :)