Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool  (Read 1115199 times)

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7380 on: December 02, 2019, 10:05:49 pm »
Force-firing a thin wall with autoshot to hit an enemy standing behind it (which we spotted with an aye-phone) is some next level stuff the A.I. could never do.

Actually the ai has fired at my gals through a thin wall on purpose on more than one occasion.  (using the spotter/sniper map hax mechanic not an aye-phone)

If an enemy with the spotter tag sees you, he will have map hack on your unit for 2-3 turns. He will still know where you are next round, even if he can't see you.

The ai doesn't just know where your gal is at; the enemy units can see you even through a wall.  If your gal is standing in the same cell as the thin wall resides, she may get fired at.  I've experienced baby nukes shot by mercs at the rear door of the airbus when my gal was standing inside right next to the door and also the 3rd floor rear wall of the snake with a gal right next to the wall.  It doesn't happen if the gal is one cell away from the wall.

In ships like the shadowbat or snake with holes in the roof, an occasional grenade may be thrown by an enemy on the ground if the spotted gal inside the ship is near the hole (lift or ladder)

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7381 on: December 03, 2019, 06:51:03 am »

The ai doesn't just know where your gal is at; the enemy units can see you even through a wall.  If your gal is standing in the same cell as the thin wall resides, she may get fired at.  I've experienced baby nukes shot by mercs at the rear door of the airbus when my gal was standing inside right next to the door...


Airbus have so many windows you should be suprised that mini-nuke wasn't fired directly inside.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7382 on: December 03, 2019, 04:10:14 pm »
Airbus really feels like a traproom now. You'll be much saver outside the craft.
Airvan is kinda an improvement.

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7383 on: December 03, 2019, 06:55:29 pm »
Yeah, sorry I should have noted I'm still playing an older version before this change:  "Cockpit windows on many ships are see-through now. Watch your heads." (from the changelog)


PS If you're wondering why, I just wanted to finish my first game on the same version as I started it.

Offline Eddie

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7384 on: December 03, 2019, 07:39:37 pm »
If your gal is standing in the same cell as the thin wall resides, she may get fired at.

I think the type of wall has something to do with it. I noticed some doors don't go all the way up, there is a small gap at the top. You will only see this when you take a first person look screenshot (F10).
The map that I tested this on was the Hawk. Here the doors on the lowest level have this gap at the top. Apparently the AI then calculates a valid trajectory for arcing weapons to the unit behind the door. As we all know bugged trajectories exist, and this is one of them. So the AI thinks it can throw grenades at the unit behind the door, but actually they all land in front of the door. Result for me was that whenever I had a spotted gal stand behind that door, there would be a rain of grenades.

Not sure if intended, but if the explosive is strong enough, this is some form of hack to get the AI to blow doors open. Only works for arcing projectiles though.

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7385 on: December 04, 2019, 01:33:51 am »
Ok, I'm thoroughly confused now.  I used quick battle, selected the airbus, desert, scout, mercenaries, min darkness.  I took some F10 snapshots and couldn't find any obvious hole through the back door of the airbus, but that doesn't mean its not there.  So I went in debug mode, used ctrl-w to stick the merc commando inside the airbus right next to the back door and stuck 4 gals outside near the back door.  None of the gals could see him (at least no flashing numbered red square nor green square for that matter) but all were able to fire at him without force fire with straight trajectory weapons (rifles shotguns).  No shots penetrated the door.  Moved merc one cell away from door still inside airbus.  Was unable to fire at him and the door was momentarily highlighted as blocking terrain.

Moved merc back next to door still inside airbus.  Tried throwing objects at him (hadn't bothered to arm gals with grenades, so used lightweight items like ammo).  Got the "unable to throw here" message without seeing any highlighted blocking terrain.  Kept trying (I have confirm fire on so I have to click twice) with the same gal in the same spot and after 5-6 tries the object was thrown and landed in front of the door on the outside of the airbus.  It seems to matter where the yellow mouse pointer is inside the red wireframe box when the throw occurs.  Near the left side, near middle vertically on the second click when the yellow circular targetting reticule is displayed seems to allow the throw to occur.  This seems to be a bug since it shouldn't matter where I click so long as the same cell is selected.  As before, moved the merc one cell away from the door still inside the airbus, and was not able to throw at him no matter where I clicked.  However, each time the door was momentarily highlighted as blocking terrain.

No other mods installed x-piratez version 0.99J8, extended version 5.1 (v2018-10-14) if anyone cares at this point.

Offline amjh

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7386 on: December 04, 2019, 02:50:00 am »
If you aim at an empty tile next to a wall, the shot is aimed at the wall rather than the ground. Maybe the game engine gets confused because the tile has a valid target?

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7387 on: December 04, 2019, 05:11:06 am »
It's the throwing part that is confusing.  When I target the tile with the rear door with a rifle or a bow(just now tried it), the only difference I see is the accuracy number displayed.  If the merc is in the same tile as the door, the accuracy number is half of what it is when the merc isn't in that tile.  The reason I can fire the rifle is that the door is thin and does not also occupy the tile outside the airbus unlike the rear wall sections on either side of the door.  So when I fire, I'm really targetting the door, not the merc despite the visual cues suggesting I'm targetting the merc.  There might be a bug concerning the accuracy number, but being in debug mode makes this uncertain since debug mode makes everything visible.

In playing around more with the throwing it seems that where in the tile I have to click to confirm the throw for it to occur depends on where the gal is in relation to the door.  In my previous post, the gal was exactly 3 tiles straight north away from the door assuming mapview has north at the top.  The confirm fire mode option ensures I didn't accidently click a different tile.

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7388 on: December 04, 2019, 11:53:39 am »
I will point out that the holes are not actually in the doors, but the tiles beside them that look like windowish. Also the point at which a units view and a units attacks come from are different and separated by about 4 voxels.

Offline Rubber Cannonball

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7389 on: December 05, 2019, 12:08:58 am »
I will point out that the holes are not actually in the doors, but the tiles beside them that look like windowish.

If I accept that as true, even though the F10 snapshot (attached) doesn't show it (the green objects are chairs), I didn't realize that it matters which pixel (can't select a voxel on a 2D projection) in the tile I select when trying to throw an object.  In the attached quick battle save, Buxom Bubblegum just threw an ammo item through the upstairs window onto the haybale which was the targetted tile.  It took me two attempts.  On the first attempt the window was highlighted as blocking terrain.  On the second attempt the throw worked.  Buxom did not move between tries and the haybale tile was targetted on both tries.  If anyone cares to, move Buxom out of the way and another gal to her former spot and attempt the throw.

Not sure if this matters, but I used x-piratez version 0.99J8, extended version 5.1 (v2018-10-14) and had the option "confirm fire mode" on.

PS  Sorry for derailing the K2 thread,  originally I had just meant to comment on the spotter/sniper mechanic some of the factions like mercs use.

Offline new_civilian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7390 on: December 05, 2019, 01:14:25 pm »
One thing I have to congratulate you on, Dioxine, which is not so obvious, but very important:

You managed to adjust the overall difficulty level extremely well, so far I never encountered anything that got me completely out of the blue. When my gals got hurt, I always knew it was my fault, because I decided not to flee and kept pushing too hard. (Like the Necropirates in a dreadful night mission, where I just was way out of league and still kept on searching. After thee grave wounds I fled like I should have right at the start.)

There were even some missions that I never thought I would be able to finish, but eventually I wore the enemy down and surprisingly turned the mission into a victory.

So. Balance gets 10 of 10 points from me!

Offline JustTheDude

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7391 on: December 05, 2019, 02:43:22 pm »
One thing I have to congratulate you on, Dioxine, which is not so obvious, but very important:

You managed to adjust the overall difficulty level extremely well, so far I never encountered anything that got me completely out of the blue. When my gals got hurt, I always knew it was my fault, because I decided not to flee and kept pushing too hard. (Like the Necropirates in a dreadful night mission, where I just was way out of league and still kept on searching. After thee grave wounds I fled like I should have right at the start.)

There were even some missions that I never thought I would be able to finish, but eventually I wore the enemy down and surprisingly turned the mission into a victory.

So. Balance gets 10 of 10 points from me!

Wait for Mercs and first Star God Mutant Pogrom.

Offline misterx

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7392 on: December 05, 2019, 06:04:13 pm »
Depends on difficulty setting. 3 on 5 is alredy enough, on 4 you get loads of troubles

Offline AhsokaTaHo

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7393 on: December 08, 2019, 03:11:12 pm »

Who will tell you another horror of the game? How to shoot from a jellyfish turret with a magic beam if it always hits the wall?

Offline legionof1

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - K2 - 2 Nov - Ice Ice Cool
« Reply #7394 on: December 08, 2019, 03:49:39 pm »
Gatta open the firing port first.