Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N9.7.7 12-Sep-2024 Second Coming

[Martin]

Mortar is indeed groovy, but I find the humble grenade launcher to be more flexible as it can be fired once every turn form static position while mortar can only be fired every other turn. The gas round is golden against deep ones but when you can manufacture chemical weapons you surely have coupple of missile lanchers or autocannons that are even better at this.

[N00b45454]

I think I'm stuck, I just finished the unlocking stellar weapons research and I've noticed something. I got curious and searched up what I needed to go to mars and I found that some research needed a bio-tech lab. While I did choose the "hire" option for Dr. X, since it's my first playthrough and didn't bother looking up the rewards for the other options, I already looted her car before I got the option to get the blueprints. I am somewhat concerned that I might've locked myself out of the endgame by doing so. Is there any other way to get the bio-tech lab blueprints?

[legionof1]

If you didn't get the biolab the alternative route is to capture a belter, an enemy type found on space freighter missions.

[N00b45454]

If you didn't get the biolab the alternative route is to capture a belter, an enemy type found on space freighter missions.

Thanks, but that seems rather unfortunate as it has been a while since a space freighter mission popped up.

[legionof1]

Yeah streaky RNG is unfortunately something we are stuck with. Sometimes you wait ages for the progress gates you need.

[Dakkdakk]

The mortar is pretty good if you got yourself a gal with a flying armor and a high place in the map onto which you can put her and have her kneel down and rain death across the map, or some sort of wall to block enemy line of sight, but its usefulness falls down pretty quickly once you start going against anything that is can easily kill your armored gals, because those kind of enemies are also much less likely to go down with regular mortars, and being able to fire only once every other turn doesnt help much either, and by then you probably have better/faster options.

[legionof1]

Eh mortar has a ton of longevity if your keeping up on research of ammo varieties. HE, WP, smoke, gas, Hell, and fusion.

[Alex_D]

Now the mortar is mentioned in the thread, I bring a thought I first had when I used it, for discussion.

In real life, although one person can do it all, usually the mortar is a crewed weapon. One person does the loading, and another does the firing. Converting it to a "proper" crewed weapon in Piratez like it is done in WK40 may be completely outside of Dioxine's plans.

Also, normally there is only enough TUs to fire the mortar, or reloading and moving a little. Originally, I was thinking into decreasing the TUs of firing to just allow reloading by a fast gal on the same turn, but I try to keep the mods stock, so I didn't do it.

However, I see the mechanics of recent OXCE builds, where certain actions can add some TUs to other units. And (I'm sure I'm not the first one) I was thinking if this can be implemented so the gal firing the weapon can have enough TUs to fire and reload in one turn, if a gal standing next to her (let's call her the loader) gives the TUs by an action to the gal holding the mortar. The plan is the shell that the loader gal is holding has the special properties of giving TUs with an action (say, with a melee or firing), by the amount required to reload the mortar from the ground. Then the loader gal throws the round at the feet of the mortar gal.

That's the easy part. The hard part is how to prevent abuse (e.g., loader gal giving TUs to non-mortar gals). Thus I don't know how the script need to be so only the gal that has a mortar shall receive the TUs. Alternatively the other way around could be considered. The mortar gives the ability to steal just enough TUs from a nearby gal (e.g. asking for help to the loader gal), thus having enough TUs to reload and fire again. This is less likely to be abused (e.g., the mortar gal borrows from a enemy unit standing next to her). Of course, the action needs to be fine tuned so the right amounts are transferred between units.

[Martin]

The easiest way would be to expand OXCE so that munition item held in hand can be scxripted to be able to perform "reloading attack" that adds the ammo to empty compatible weapon held by target and then deletes itself and fails if there’s no suitable target.

However, reloading action could throw the player/"AI" balance out completely, it woudl be easy to allow the player to do that, but difficult to get the "AI" to perform something so complex.

[alehhhha]

Question to Mr. Dioxine (I apologize for my bad English)
Have you ever thought of introducing ways to expand the base in future patches? For example - to lay a tunnel between two nearby, so that they have common warehouses, prisons and buildings. (I apologize if I offer nonsense).

[Dakkdakk]

Mortars are fine as they are atm, IMO, IE a powerful but kind of situational weapon. Its actualy very realistic to not be able to effectively use it on every mission because you just dont get a proper position to set it up on every map, and IRL mortars also did require significant setting up to be used effectively (that is, finding a stable place to set it up without getting shot from every direction).
Given gals are pretty much always just running out of a dropship and engaging whatever enemy they're against, its actualy kind of impressive they even employ mortars at all.

Also, its the closest thing to artillery we can get in an xcom kind of game, and I love me some artillery.

[LytaRyta]

Now the mortar is mentioned in the thread, I bring a thought I first had when I used it, for discussion.

In real life, although one person can do it all, usually the mortar is a crewed weapon. One person does the loading, and another does the firing. Converting it to a "proper" crewed weapon in Piratez like it is done in WK40 may be completely outside of Dioxine's plans.

Also, normally there is only enough TUs to fire the mortar, or reloading and moving a little. Originally, I was thinking into decreasing the TUs of firing to just allow reloading by a fast gal on the same turn, but I try to keep the mods stock, so I didn't do it.

However, I see the mechanics of recent OXCE builds, where certain actions can add some TUs to other units. And (I'm sure I'm not the first one) I was thinking if this can be implemented so the gal firing the weapon can have enough TUs to fire and reload in one turn, if a gal standing next to her (let's call her the loader) gives the TUs by an action to the gal holding the mortar. The plan is the shell that the loader gal is holding has the special properties of giving TUs with an action (say, with a melee or firing), by the amount required to reload the mortar from the ground. Then the loader gal throws the round at the feet of the mortar gal.

That's the easy part. The hard part is how to prevent abuse (e.g., loader gal giving TUs to non-mortar gals). Thus I don't know how the script need to be so only the gal that has a mortar shall receive the TUs. Alternatively the other way around could be considered. The mortar gives the ability to steal just enough TUs from a nearby gal (e.g. asking for help to the loader gal), thus having enough TUs to reload and fire again. This is less likely to be abused (e.g., the mortar gal borrows from a enemy unit standing next to her). Of course, the action needs to be fine tuned so the right amounts are transferred between units.

real Moertars:

light mortars ~~36 ~~60 ~100 mm  caliber   ~ 2 men crew

1man -portable, moveable, at the man´back(pack)

or transportable on vehicles, trucks, APC, FPV (Fighting Personnel(Infantry) Vehicle)



heavy mortars ~~90 ~~120 mm calibers   ~~3 men crew!

must be carried by, of 2 men, at least

(transportable by, on trucks, FPV (BVP), APC (Armored Personal Carriers..), etc.. 

[Stoddard]

I always thought it was something like 50mm since even 82mm weighs 60kg

[Zharkov]

I always thought it was something like 50mm since even 82mm weighs 60kg

A 120mm mortar might be too heavy to carry around even for the gals.

[Alex_D]

The easiest way would be to expand OXCE so that munition item held in hand can be scripted to be able to perform "reloading attack" that adds the ammo to empty compatible weapon held by target and then deletes itself and fails if there’s no suitable target.

I like that idea. I'm not familiar with the scripting language, or what variables can handle.
EDIT: This idea of assisted re-loading could be optionally applied to other weapons that would be normally reloaded by other people, like some rocket launchers or perhaps heavy machine guns.

However, reloading action could throw the player/"AI" balance out completely, it would be easy to allow the player to do that, but difficult to get the "AI" to perform something so complex.

Well, I'd say on this instance: scr*w the AI! This is because I have yet to see the AI fielding these weapons against the gals, so I assume is a player only gun (I'm not giving Dioxine ideas  )

In my previous campaign, a few versions ago, my gals were never fired by the Blaster Launcher unless it was a reaction or panic fire. So if the mortar is made available to the enemy factions, I wonder if the AI would treat the mortar  the same as the BL (never firing it against the player). Note that I observed the same behaviour when I played my most recent campaign in XCF.

I always thought it was something like 50mm since even 82mm weighs 60kg

Yes, a 60 mm mortar or a 81 mm mortar are light enough to being carried by one superhuman gal (mortar tube, base plate and some rounds). The 120 mm mortar indeed may be too heavy for the gals.