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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - M4 6-Jan-2022 Peasant Revolution  (Read 2248839 times)

niculinux

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3300 on: September 11, 2016, 03:14:35 pm »

Offline Devon_v

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3301 on: September 11, 2016, 08:21:28 pm »
As promised somewhere, I'm now playing on the second difficulty, enemy armor at the correct amount is irritating :)

High strength gals with ballbats. Then as soon as available,  switch to maces. Armor becomes a non-issue. :)

Fire is also good, and close range explosives hit under armor.


Offline LexThorn

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3303 on: September 13, 2016, 04:11:01 pm »
Hey,  Dioxine! How about some sort of sci-fi prison with stasis or cryo technology for more compact storage of alive captives? Will it fit the mod?  I think it can be cool mid\late game prison and fits setting good. Lets say it must be built only on base that have surgery room (for cryo\stasis detention and reanimation after that).

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3304 on: September 13, 2016, 11:12:27 pm »
Not towards this end alone, no. By the time you'll have it, you won't really need it (prisons cost pocket cash by that time). Maybe if it has some interesting secondary functions other than just being a prison.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3305 on: September 13, 2016, 11:55:37 pm »
I believe the stress was on the "more compact" storage, e.g. 40 beings instead of 15.
It's not the money that's scarce in this game, it's the building space...

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3306 on: September 14, 2016, 12:01:52 am »
Well, it would be convenient to have a prison with larger capacity which still fits in one base tile. Your argument of "by the time you'll have it, prisons cost pocket money" is flawed because it forces the player to waste a much more scarce resource than money: base tiles. "Just build more prisons" doesn't really work when we need more of everything with the kind of facility sizes and variety we have in Piratez (more living quarters, more voodoo schools, more gyms, more study rooms, more storage rooms, more different research/defense facilities because research/manufacturing projects require XYZ on site and sick bays too). Of course, one doesn't need all of that, but the more facilities there are, the more valuable base tiles are and the more wasteful it becomes to have duplicates which are usually not serving a purpose (ie prisons which are most often empty because everyone is enslaved, but present because once in a while you get too many prisoners).

Because of this value of base tiles, I generally try to make do with 1 in every base that has an active raiding team, plus 1 in my storage base for the VIPs I am keeping for later. More tiles dedicated to holding prisoners doesn't make sense and I'd happily throw money at the problem if it were possible to solve it this way (ie build an expensive cryo-prison which also requires expensive electricity to power it). Especially since by the time you would get a high-tech prison, you can tank most crews easily and take your time and stun every enemy in many a fight, so it's not uncommon to bag more than the capacity of a single prison in prisoners (for enslavement) especially if you have a few VIPs or something lingering. The "prison is full" screen doesn't allow you to transfer prisoners elsewhere, just to ransom them, so if you bagged too many, you have to ransom a few (a waste of loot and slaves). That is, unless you exit the game and reload from the post-battle autosave, which nicely saves before you have to deal with prisoners, allowing you to overfill the prison. Yes, I've done that before because I don't feel guilty when cheating a mechanic that makes no sense: In this case prisons having a hard cap and not being able to temporarily guard a few extra prisoners or at least transfer them to other bases on the spot.

TL;DR: Having the opportunity to get a prison with larger capacity in the end game would be convenient, allowing you to save base tiles by spending money. I'd certainly use it.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3307 on: September 14, 2016, 12:32:32 am »
"by the time you'll have it, prisons cost pocket money" is flawed because it forces the player to waste a much more scarce resource than money: base tiles.

It isn't flawed. That 'flaw' is precisely the design. I want the player to be careful with that resource. It is plentiful, but ultimately limited, thus you need to use your head.
Naturally there could be an upgrade, but I don't want it to be boring, plus, the extra utility, whatever it is, will be a pretext for hiking the faclity price to levels that can be felt by the mid-game player.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3308 on: September 14, 2016, 01:10:19 am »
The argument was what you said, which was flawed because it didn't address the real cost of prisons or, indeed, contain the real reason you just gave: You want prisons to help keep the demand for base tiles high, so that the tiles are valuable.

I've always seen the evolution of bases as: You improve efficiency of existing stuff (storage upgrades, living quarters upgrades, library->study room->super computer, 4x gym -> spa, workshop -> factory) but you also develop new stuff that you need to fit somewhere. So the demand always remains high and you balance getting more of the old stuff/gals/research/training/manufacture or more auxiliary new stuff (surgery room, power core, voodoo school, summoning circle, etc.).

Prisons stand out because they don't fit in there: You build one and forget about it because it never changes and it's probably better to run into problems sometimes than have multiples and not have something else. Hence people suggest ideas to build upon them. If you prefer not to, that's odd but sure.

The best argument against this is probably that there are other things that are more worth your time. Something I can fully understand.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3309 on: September 14, 2016, 01:37:22 am »
I haven't seen any interesting idea other than 'gib better prison'. I felt I have explained that in a more civilized way above. Indeed I see little use for it (hence little incentive to invest effort), since 2-3 prisons are more than enough for the entire game - or maybe I'm wrong? Do you run multiple bases with, like, 4 or more prisons each?

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3310 on: September 14, 2016, 02:42:01 am »
No, indeed I don't run a single base with more than one prison. I do run 4 bases with one prison each, and occasionally run into issues of too many new prisoners for the prison, annoyingly forcing me to ransom them when I feel I should be able to transfer them on the spot to another base which has available prison space. This is the reason why I would like to see a bigger prison: It would reduce the chance of said annoyance occurring.

I do consider that the removal of that annoyance is not worth a base tile (hence keeping only one prison), but I would very much be willing to throw money at the problem to make it go away, in the same way I throw money at the storage/living space/manufacture/research efficiency per tile to make that better. As I have already said, I feel like it would also tie in with other facilities improving as you progress and make the whole thing more believable: I can now put more stuff/gals/runts/brainers in a given amount of space dedicated to storage/living/manufacture/research, why not more prisoners in a given amount of space dedicated to holding them?

But that's the last I'm going to say about it. Given that you don't feel it has enough edge as proposed, and I agree there's other stuff you can spend time thinking about, there's no point pushing it. (Sorry, bored at worked, jumped on a distraction...)

Offline khade

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3311 on: September 14, 2016, 03:37:34 am »
What about a cryogenics research line, with weapons and superior storage for perishables(prisoners, aggressive support creatures, Gal corpses for the cloning vats).  Freeze rays would be fun, especially for capture.  Full on Mr. Freeze power armor would be awesome.  Another trap room(Freezer) would be amusing.

Offline karadoc

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3312 on: September 14, 2016, 12:35:39 pm »
Speaking of prisons, I sometimes (shamefully) exploit a bug which allows essentially unlimited prison space.

Prison space is only checked after finishing missions, and it is not checked when loading saves. The geoscape autosave at the end of a mission is made in between when the mission ends and when you are forced to sell excess prisoners and equipment.

So if you get too many prisoners from a mission, you can just load the geoscape autosave. You'll be allowed to keep all of your prisoners even though you effectively have negative prison space.


I sometimes think about fixing this bug just to prevent myself from using it; but I figure it's low priority and so I haven't got around looking at the code for that yet. (The main reason I exploit the bug is laziness. I sometimes keep prisoners in my main base when I don't really need to; and then I exploit the bug when I unexpectedly run out of space due to those extra prisoners...)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3313 on: September 14, 2016, 05:05:45 pm »
Is use that too:

it's not uncommon to bag more than the capacity of a single prison in prisoners (for enslavement) especially if you have a few VIPs or something lingering. The "prison is full" screen doesn't allow you to transfer prisoners elsewhere, just to ransom them, so if you bagged too many, you have to ransom a few (a waste of loot and slaves). That is, unless you exit the game and reload from the post-battle autosave, which nicely saves before you have to deal with prisoners, allowing you to overfill the prison. Yes, I've done that before because I don't feel guilty when cheating a mechanic that makes no sense: In this case prisons having a hard cap and not being able to temporarily guard a few extra prisoners or at least transfer them to other bases on the spot.

I think a great fix would be to allow transfer to other bases in the prison capacity exceeded window. This way, if you have too many prisoners, you can either send them somewhere or ransom them. Instead of having to ransom them on the spot. That would allow you also to capture people even if you don't have a prison on site, provided you immediately transfer/ransom the prisoners, which is a new "feature", but not necessarily unrealistic or undesirable: You get back to base and immediately march the prisoners into whatever transport is used for transfers so they get somewhere with proper facilities.

Offline nrafield

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99C.1 - 10 Sep - Become an Idol!
« Reply #3314 on: September 14, 2016, 05:26:55 pm »
I don't understand how you people can feel base space is an issue to you. You can have a base you conduct ground operations from, another one where you station your craft, another for research, another for storage, another for manufacturing, (possibly same as storage) leave the rest to manufacturing for profit, and all of them can also have radars. What do you need more space for?

In my experience trying to capture more than 10 prisoners is likely not worth the hassle anyway, at least early on. It's not like you can just arm all your gals with Stun Launchers and go wild, no, for most part you will have to melee if you want to capture anyone, and that's kinda clunky and may result in you being forced to run all over the map because you first captive got up and ran off somewhere you can't see them just as you put down your 11th captive.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2016, 05:30:26 pm by nrafield »