Author Topic: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)  (Read 16730 times)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #15 on: August 08, 2014, 07:53:43 am »
Also new version V0.4 including two XXL crafts : Skycruiser and Skylander

The problem is that soldiers don't use internal tiles in priority, so I removed the floor tiles of the side (rear) doors

The Skycruiser should be limited to 20 to avoid this issue, or the floor tiles of side (front) doors

The Skylander and its 30 soldiers is the biggest one I will create !

This should be enough to assault any alien base even in my future mod

Beware that I took a risk for the Skylander, in some situation (especially on the border) a tank should be able to disembark, but could be unable to board again

EDIT : An XCom ensign is missing...
Skylander is perfect!

It has the perfect capacity without the Elerium Powered Engine! (I never use the Avenger or any Elerium Based Craft, too expensive for me :P  )

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #16 on: August 08, 2014, 08:23:03 am »
Nice !

Do you prefer engines under the wings instead of on the ground ? (see previous post)

EDIT : another external design
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 08:37:24 am by Aldorn »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #17 on: August 08, 2014, 09:22:46 am »
So many planes to chose from! I'll have to add 15 new tiers of planes in my ruleset! :P

I think the new ones with engines under the wings look AWESOME. Just have to write the rules for them.

I guess I could have a few different models within a tier (in my mod: starting craft, alloy craft, hybrid craft), where bigger = slower, and going up in tier means getting faster, more HP and some extra capacity, at the cost of requiring more alien alloy, time and money to manufacture. If only I weren't so busy.. I wish I could work for OpenXCom, instead of doing a PhD..!

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #18 on: August 08, 2014, 04:25:22 pm »
So many planes to chose from! I'll have to add 15 new tiers of planes in my ruleset! :P

I think the new ones with engines under the wings look AWESOME. Just have to write the rules for them.

I guess I could have a few different models within a tier (in my mod: starting craft, alloy craft, hybrid craft), where bigger = slower, and going up in tier means getting faster, more HP and some extra capacity, at the cost of requiring more alien alloy, time and money to manufacture. If only I weren't so busy.. I wish I could work for OpenXCom, instead of doing a PhD..!
I will propose a version (of all skyrangers) with engines under wings rather on the ground

In your opinion, which one has the better look between :
- PLANE.GIF : 4 big wings, 2 motors
- PLANE3.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 middle wings, 2 engines
- PLANE5.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 small wings, 2 engines

And tell me if all are suitable (also brings variety) or if one of them is absolutely not useful ? Also :
- is it coherent to have 4 engines ?
- is it coherent to have 2 wings of same size ?
- is it coherent to have spoilers not only at rear wings ?
- could engines be one tile smaller, one tile bigger ?
- ...
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 04:37:41 pm by Aldorn »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #19 on: August 08, 2014, 05:44:00 pm »
I will propose a version (of all skyrangers) with engines under wings rather on the ground

In your opinion, which one has the better look between :
- PLANE.GIF : 4 big wings, 2 motors
- PLANE3.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 middle wings, 2 engines
- PLANE5.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 small wings, 2 engines

And tell me if all are suitable (also brings variety) or if one of them is absolutely not useful ? Also :
- is it coherent to have 4 engines ?
- is it coherent to have 2 wings of same size ?
- is it coherent to have spoilers not only at rear wings ?
- could engines be one tile smaller, one tile bigger ?
- ...

My feedback: Plane 3 looks best but the Vertical Stabilizers (Rudders or Spoilers)  should only be at the back of the plane, unless you made them smaller and placed them at the ends of the main wingtips. :) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #20 on: August 08, 2014, 05:46:10 pm »
Regarding Skylander, also the big one (30P)
4 available versions
- WE (Wing-Engines) or GE (Ground-Engines for tactical purposes, useful for hard mods)
- 02/04 (Big "front side door") or 01/03 (no big "front side door" but soldiers will be placed on "rear side doors" ground tiles)

My feedback: Plane 3 looks best but the Vertical Stabilizers (Rudders or Spoilers)  should only be at the back of the plane, unless you made them smaller and placed them at the ends of the main wingtips. :) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device
Isn't it the case for PLANE3.GIF ?
(I have no possibility to make spoilers smaller neither at end of wingtips  :-[ this was a nice idea !)

I had in mind to use the PLANE05 for the SkyCruiser (22P) and keep two huge wings for the Skylander)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:11:46 pm by Aldorn »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2014, 06:09:58 pm »
Derp, you were right.  ;) Plane 3, looks fine in that respect.  Also, Rear Engines are fine as well as those on the wings. 
And I thing wing engines look better than ground engines.  (Not that I wouldn't like the tactical advantage, ;) )

And... SKYLANDER-02WE.gif  is the better of those variants.  The extra landing gear makes sense to hold this larger craft.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:12:55 pm by ivandogovich »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #22 on: August 08, 2014, 06:17:16 pm »
Derp, you were right.  ;) Plane 3, looks fine in that respect.  Also, Rear Engines are fine as well as those on the wings. 
Could you be as accurate as possible : PLANE3.gif ?
PLANE3.gif does not have any rear engines ?!
I try to understand... You prefer :
- PLANE.gif because of the "4 engines"
- PLANE3.gif because of only "2 spoilers" and "small rear wings"
also you'd like a mix of "4 engines", "2 spoilers", "small rear wings" ?

And I thing wing engines look better than ground engines.  (Not that I wouldn't like the tactical advantage, ;) )
I totally agree, that's why I will provide at least two versions any time : a real version with wing engines, and a fictional version with ground engines for tactical advantage

Let's begin with Skylander
And... SKYLANDER-02WE.gif  is the better of those variants.  The extra landing gear makes sense to hold this larger craft.
I will provide both these 4 versions

I removed extra landing gears on 01WE/03GE because of doors ground tiles : 1 door ground tile = 1 gear (I tried with extra gears too, but it was a little strange)

I positioned 4 spoilers to make a clear difference with other smaller crafts (cruiser, trooper, guardian, ...).

Do you think I have to remove the spoilers on middle wings and keep only spoilers of rear wings ?
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:30:45 pm by Aldorn »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2014, 06:30:46 pm »
Plane3.gif >> I prefer that one for the wing ratio (large front, small in back) and the vertical stabilizers in the rear.  :)
Engine wise, It think that two engines are fine on midsize variants. It looks fine on Plane3. 
On larger craft, 4 engines would be fine.

On the whole I don't really feel like Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft works well with aircraft design.   In the majority of modern aircraft they are at the rear of the craft as it gives the rudder leverage on turning it.  Some exotic designs put them at the front of the craft, but these are very few and far between. ;)


Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2014, 06:33:22 pm »
Plane3.gif >> I prefer that one for the wing ratio (large front, small in back) and the vertical stabilizers in the rear.  :)
Engine wise, It think that two engines are fine on midsize variants. It looks fine on Plane3. 
On larger craft, 4 engines would be fine.

On the whole I don't really feel like Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft works well with aircraft design.   In the majority of modern aircraft they are at the rear of the craft as it gives the rudder leverage on turning it.  Some exotic designs put them at the front of the craft, but these are very few and far between. ;)
Ok so :
- I will take PLANE03.GIF as a base for Skycruiser (22P)
- I will remove Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft for the Skylander

EDIT: Skylander
- GE = Ground Engines ; WE = Wing Engines
- LD = with Large Doors ; SD = Small Doors only
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 06:44:48 pm by Aldorn »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2014, 07:09:29 pm »
I agree that plane3.gif looks the best. The only thing I would change is to make the engines a little bit shorter, so they don't stick out the front of the wings so much. They can be almost flush with the wing, like they are on skylander-02we.gif.

The larger one.. I don't know.. To me it looks too long and skinny, the 2 pairs of similar wings look like too much (and the intake of the rear engines is right in the exhaust of the front ones, which is more of an issue than one might think if the worry of VTOL aircrafts choking their engine because of air recirculation still holds).

I am also not sure it is warranted. The avenger carries 26 troops at most and it is the Ultimate Craft. Of course, it might be considered so because it is at once your best fighter and your best transporter, so one could argue that as your "best fighter and pretty good transport", it's still the ultimate craft but I am not sure it should be outdone as a transport. I am finding the the skyranger's 14 troops is most of the time enough (in most of the UFO missions, some of my soldiers end up just walking along not finding aliens, or picking their while my breachers clear the UFO. Bases and terror missions are different, but not that different.

A conventional plane carrying 16-20 soldiers should be enough, I think. It is then an upgrade on the skyranger, but also leaves the avenger as the ultimate craft. I am thinking of going:

1 - Skyranger (14 troops)
2 - Alloy Skyranger (16 troops & faster) + smaller plane (10 troops & a fair bit faster
3 - Hybrid Skyranger (uses Alloy + UFO Navigation; 18 troops and faster than alloy large plane)
  + smaller plane (12 troops and faster than the alloy small plane).

Of course, the small planes will be outdone by the lightning once it becomes available, but until then it is a great craft to quickly go to a small landed UFO before it takes off again (and they can take a HWP). Similarly, the avenger will outshine the larger planes, but that's the point, it's the best craft.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2014, 07:17:54 pm »
I agree that plane3.gif looks the best. The only thing I would change is to make the engines a little bit shorter, so they don't stick out the front of the wings so much. They can be almost flush with the wing, like they are on skylander-02we.gif.
I will do

The larger one.. I don't know.. To me it looks too long and skinny, the 2 pairs of similar wings look like too much (and the intake of the rear engines is right in the exhaust of the front ones, which is more of an issue than one might think if the worry of VTOL aircrafts choking their engine because of air recirculation still holds).
I will keep these 4 engines to make a difference with other ones, as some modders are not against having 4 engines, but I trust you about the air circulation...
Wait for the Skycruiser that will have small rear wings and 2 engines only

I am also not sure it is warranted. The avenger carries 26 troops at most and it is the Ultimate Craft. Of course, it might be considered so because it is at once your best fighter and your best transporter, so one could argue that as your "best fighter and pretty good transport", it's still the ultimate craft but I am not sure it should be outdone as a transport. I am finding the the skyranger's 14 troops is most of the time enough (in most of the UFO missions, some of my soldiers end up just walking along not finding aliens, or picking their while my breachers clear the UFO. Bases and terror missions are different, but not that different.
No problem. Some are asking for huge capacity, so I propose this Skylander (as XCOMFan, I like the SkyRanger and am not in urgency to use Lightning/Avenger...).
You could even use it but setting parameters to not allow more than 20 soldiers


A conventional plane carrying 16-20 soldiers should be enough, I think. It is then an upgrade on the skyranger, but also leaves the avenger as the ultimate craft. I am thinking of going:

1 - Skyranger (14 troops)
2 - Alloy Skyranger (16 troops & faster) + smaller plane (10 troops & a fair bit faster
3 - Hybrid Skyranger (uses Alloy + UFO Navigation; 18 troops and faster than alloy large plane)
  + smaller plane (12 troops and faster than the alloy small plane).

Of course, the small planes will be outdone by the lightning once it becomes available, but until then it is a great craft to quickly go to a small landed UFO before it takes off again (and they can take a HWP). Similarly, the avenger will outshine the larger planes, but that's the point, it's the best craft.
I will provide many sizes, then you'll just have to select one and set parameters to limit capacity to your convenience
« Last Edit: August 08, 2014, 07:23:15 pm by Aldorn »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2014, 07:28:10 pm »
Sounds good! Thank you for doing all the work!

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2014, 08:10:24 pm »
Skylander V0.1

Next step is to provide Skycruiser with at least two versions WE/GE (certainly small rear wings and 2 engines only), then Skytrooper (WE/GE)

Skylander WE-LD (the 4th) should be the best version of Skylander (small wing engines, no soldier outside if capacity limited to 26, 2 small rear doors + 2 big front doors)
« Last Edit: August 09, 2014, 12:17:55 am by Aldorn »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
« Reply #29 on: August 08, 2014, 11:48:14 pm »
SkyCrafts V0.1
Includes :
- Skylanders V0.1 + fixed a route issue -> up to 30 soldiers, 24 recommended
- Skycruisers -> up to 26 soldiers, 20 recommended

Hint :
- GE = Ground Engines ; WE = Wing Engines
- LD = with Large Doors ; SD = Small Doors only

Order in RECAP is :
Skycruiser
- WE-LD
- WE-SD
- GE-LD
- GE-SD
Skylander (sorry not same order)
- WE-SD
- WE-LD
- GE-SD
- GE-LD


Next step : Skytrooper
- up to 22 soldiers
- smaller rear wings and thinner front wings
- only 2 side doors

Also let me know for people interested if you want any modification (more/less gears, ...) but please be as most accurate as possible as "Skylander WE-SD : move front wings 1 tile to the rear"
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 12:44:45 am by Aldorn »