OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Aldorn on July 30, 2014, 12:22:46 am

Title: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on July 30, 2014, 12:22:46 am
A small mod, more for people who are looking for some alternatives at the beginning

Skyspotter
      -> up to 6 soldiers
      -> +100% radar range
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29395#msg29395)

Skywatcher
      -> up to 10 soldiers
      -> +50% radar range
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29395#msg29395)

Skytrooper :
      -> up to 18 soldiers
      -> 2 side doors
      -> 2 versions : either WE or GE
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29395#msg29395)

Skyliner :
      -> up to 22 soldiers but 18 is recommended
      -> 2 side doors
      -> 2 versions : either WE or GE
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29395#msg29395)

Skycruiser :
      -> up to 26 soldiers but 18 or 20 is recommended depending on version
      -> 4 versions
            - either WE or GE*
            - either 2LD or 4SD
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29230#msg29230)

Skylander :
      -> up to 30 soldiers but 22 is recommended for LD versions (for SD versions, you will have soldiers directly exposed in any situation)
      -> 4 versions
            - either WE or GE*
            - either 4SD or 2SD + 2 LD
Preview here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg29230#msg29230)

Included ruleset is an example of how making them researchable and manufacturable ; Feel free to adapt any property at your convenience...

I don't provide ufopaedia pictures, others are far better for doing this

Meaning :
- GE = Ground Engines ; WE = Wing Engines
- LD = Large Doors ; SD = Small Doors

*: Engines installed under the aircraft (also on the ground) to provide tactical protection for harder mods
Title: Re: Skyrangers
Post by: guille1434 on July 30, 2014, 07:28:08 pm
Very nice work! I like the Skytrooper more than the Improved Skyranger that is present in the Final Mod Pack. About the skyspotter, I think it looks a little too chubby... Just my humble opinion, but I think it would look better if made longer (also improve capacity to six troopers or 2 soldiers and a HWP) and given a bigger radar radome.

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Skyrangers
Post by: Aldorn on July 30, 2014, 09:31:31 pm
Very nice work! I like the Skytrooper more than the Improved Skyranger that is present in the Final Mod Pack. About the skyspotter, I think it looks a little too chubby... Just my humble opinion, but I think it would look better if made longer (also improve capacity to six troopers or 2 soldiers and a HWP) and given a bigger radar radome.

Thanks for sharing!
You are right, I wondered if I made 4-10-16 or 6-12-18...
But I like the impossibility to load a tank on such a small aircraft

Also I will quickly :
- correct this version as I noticed I forgot the XCOM stars for the spotter and skyranger
- make a second version of 6-12-18

Update => V0.3
- add the X sign on 04-10-16
- included a second version 06-12-18
- not tested but should work
- do not activate both mod together, or the last one activated will be taken into account => better to build your own mod, it is not so hard, all is included, just have to play with values   :)

Title: Re: Skyrangers
Post by: guille1434 on July 31, 2014, 01:43:10 am
Aldorn: Thanks for giving us the choice to use the crafts with different carrying capacities! Well thought!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 02:10:27 am
As asked, I added a new version of the SkyGuardian with 2 side doors

I also provide two versions, one with "floor tiles" to simulate the doors opened, one without
Theoretically, this mean two more soldiers could be positioned on the "floor tiles" (obviously, in case modder raises craft capacity of +2)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 02:22:26 am
Thank you! I will test these new designs in the XCom Armoury Expanded and let you know how they work.

Should help with the "deployment traffic jam" I have been experiencing! (If not with the: "Getting shot as you deploy isse..!)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 08, 2014, 02:34:16 am
Hello Aldorn: Just a question... The SkyGuardian is another variant of the craft or you just renamed the SkyTrooper? Thanks!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 03:30:57 am
Actually, it's a slightly different craft. It was made by someone on the forum as a resources, named the "Sky Transit", as a 16 troopers craft. I have added it to the "XCom Armoury Expanded" as I liked the idea of a stepping stone from the Skyranger to the Avenger (Who uses the lightning any ways?!), but renamed it the Skyguardian to fit with my naming pattern:

Skyranger -> Skywarden (= low rent, faster alien alloy skyranger) -> Skyguardian ( = lower rent, even faster, has one weapon)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 03:53:15 am
Hello Aldorn: Just a question... The SkyGuardian is another variant of the craft or you just renamed the SkyTrooper? Thanks!
Hi,
Do you have some more idea for a different Skyranger ?  ::)

I tried to make on with 4 side doors, but it was too dangerous
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 08, 2014, 04:22:43 am
Hi,
Do you have some more idea for a different Skyranger ?  ::)

I tried to make on with 4 side doors, but it was too dangerous
Maybe it's worth the risk. Usually with the Skytrooper most of the soldiers in the mid section stay in the Skytrooper for the first turn due to the sheer length of the Skytrooper. Unless if you want to make an entirely new Skyranger with a 3 or 4 block width, then adding two more doors near the mid section would be helpful.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 05:33:42 am
Maybe it's worth the risk. Usually with the Skytrooper most of the soldiers in the mid section stay in the Skytrooper for the first turn due to the sheer length of the Skytrooper. Unless if you want to make an entirely new Skyranger with a 3 or 4 block width, then adding two more doors near the mid section would be helpful.
If you are speaking of 4 side doors, have a look at this one (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1145.msg21389#msg21389) (I mean the second one)

I have to say that it was fun, but given that I play with many aliens around, this was too difficult

Either I have it yet, or I could remake it if you need
Files are still attached  :)

The small platforms in front of every door is interesting because you may fight with some nice LOF then go back to SkyRanger. If you are well organized (also not too much soldiers), you can even manoeuvre so that many soldiers fire the same round

I could make a version with 4 side doors from the XXL of current thread, as ground engines are very useful especially when you land on a border : jump and hide behind, or between both engines => many strategic places to post soldiers. I think I will do this now


Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 08, 2014, 06:11:17 am
If you are speaking of 4 side doors, have a look at this one (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=1145.msg21389#msg21389) (I mean the second one)

I have to say that it was fun, but given that I play with many aliens around, this was too difficult

Either I have it yet, or I could remake it if you need
Files are still attached  :)

The small platforms in front of every door is interesting because you may fight with some nice LOF then go back to SkyRanger. If you are well organized (also not too much soldiers), you can even manoeuvre so that many soldiers fire the same round

I could make a version with 4 side doors from the XXL of current thread, as ground engines are very useful especially when you land on a border : jump and hide behind, or between both engines => many strategic places to post soldiers. I think I will do this now
Yes I've already downloaded that :P

I'm clueless with maps and routes and stuff so it's...better that you do it.

But it sounds like a good idea. I'd like to try it out if you have no time to test.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 06:26:13 am
Also new version V0.4 including two XXL crafts : Skycruiser and Skylander

The problem is that soldiers don't use internal tiles in priority, so I removed the floor tiles of the side (rear) doors

The Skycruiser should be limited to 20 to avoid this issue, or the floor tiles of side (front) doors

The Skylander and its 30 soldiers is the biggest one I will create !

This should be enough to assault any alien base even in my future mod

Beware that I took a risk for the Skylander, in some situation (especially on the border) a tank should be able to disembark, but could be unable to board again

EDIT : An XCom ensign is missing...
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 07:34:09 am
So many skyrangers! That's awesome. I believe the FMP Skyranger v2 comes from the same original as my "Skyguardian", as it looks exactly the same: weird blocks at the end of the tail and lying on the ground. It was made by civilian, and posted here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2048.msg19784#msg19784

I actually like the raised Skyranger more, as it gives you extra space down below to get soldiers out. Of course, the weird "walking down the ramp costs more TUs than walking around it" issue remains, which is I think why civilian changed it. It also makes sense for the plane to lower itself so it is less exposed to enemy fire.

Of course, it means more soldiers exposed but if you don't want that, just don't move them out ;)

Also.. The engines under the plane might work tactically, but physically, I have a hard time picturing a plane that would work like this. With engines so off center, wouldn't it just spin all the time?

I need to learn how to mod transports so I can tweak the ones in my mod to what I want from them.. :/
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 07:52:51 am
Also.. The engines under the plane might work tactically, but physically, I have a hard time picturing a plane that would work like this. With engines so off center, wouldn't it just spin all the time?
For sure I would not design crafts in real life...
Would it better like this ?

Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 08, 2014, 07:53:43 am
Also new version V0.4 including two XXL crafts : Skycruiser and Skylander

The problem is that soldiers don't use internal tiles in priority, so I removed the floor tiles of the side (rear) doors

The Skycruiser should be limited to 20 to avoid this issue, or the floor tiles of side (front) doors

The Skylander and its 30 soldiers is the biggest one I will create !

This should be enough to assault any alien base even in my future mod

Beware that I took a risk for the Skylander, in some situation (especially on the border) a tank should be able to disembark, but could be unable to board again

EDIT : An XCom ensign is missing...
Skylander is perfect!

It has the perfect capacity without the Elerium Powered Engine! (I never use the Avenger or any Elerium Based Craft, too expensive for me :P  )
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 08:23:03 am
Nice !

Do you prefer engines under the wings instead of on the ground ? (see previous post)

EDIT : another external design
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 09:22:46 am
So many planes to chose from! I'll have to add 15 new tiers of planes in my ruleset! :P

I think the new ones with engines under the wings look AWESOME. Just have to write the rules for them.

I guess I could have a few different models within a tier (in my mod: starting craft, alloy craft, hybrid craft), where bigger = slower, and going up in tier means getting faster, more HP and some extra capacity, at the cost of requiring more alien alloy, time and money to manufacture. If only I weren't so busy.. I wish I could work for OpenXCom, instead of doing a PhD..!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 04:25:22 pm
So many planes to chose from! I'll have to add 15 new tiers of planes in my ruleset! :P

I think the new ones with engines under the wings look AWESOME. Just have to write the rules for them.

I guess I could have a few different models within a tier (in my mod: starting craft, alloy craft, hybrid craft), where bigger = slower, and going up in tier means getting faster, more HP and some extra capacity, at the cost of requiring more alien alloy, time and money to manufacture. If only I weren't so busy.. I wish I could work for OpenXCom, instead of doing a PhD..!
I will propose a version (of all skyrangers) with engines under wings rather on the ground

In your opinion, which one has the better look between :
- PLANE.GIF : 4 big wings, 2 motors
- PLANE3.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 middle wings, 2 engines
- PLANE5.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 small wings, 2 engines

And tell me if all are suitable (also brings variety) or if one of them is absolutely not useful ? Also :
- is it coherent to have 4 engines ?
- is it coherent to have 2 wings of same size ?
- is it coherent to have spoilers not only at rear wings ?
- could engines be one tile smaller, one tile bigger ?
- ...
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: ivandogovich on August 08, 2014, 05:44:00 pm
I will propose a version (of all skyrangers) with engines under wings rather on the ground

In your opinion, which one has the better look between :
- PLANE.GIF : 4 big wings, 2 motors
- PLANE3.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 middle wings, 2 engines
- PLANE5.GIF : 2 very big wings, 2 small wings, 2 engines

And tell me if all are suitable (also brings variety) or if one of them is absolutely not useful ? Also :
- is it coherent to have 4 engines ?
- is it coherent to have 2 wings of same size ?
- is it coherent to have spoilers not only at rear wings ?
- could engines be one tile smaller, one tile bigger ?
- ...

My feedback: Plane 3 looks best but the Vertical Stabilizers (Rudders or Spoilers)  should only be at the back of the plane, unless you made them smaller and placed them at the ends of the main wingtips. :) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 05:46:10 pm
Regarding Skylander, also the big one (30P)
4 available versions
- WE (Wing-Engines) or GE (Ground-Engines for tactical purposes, useful for hard mods)
- 02/04 (Big "front side door") or 01/03 (no big "front side door" but soldiers will be placed on "rear side doors" ground tiles)

My feedback: Plane 3 looks best but the Vertical Stabilizers (Rudders or Spoilers)  should only be at the back of the plane, unless you made them smaller and placed them at the ends of the main wingtips. :) 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wingtip_device
Isn't it the case for PLANE3.GIF ?
(I have no possibility to make spoilers smaller neither at end of wingtips  :-[ this was a nice idea !)

I had in mind to use the PLANE05 for the SkyCruiser (22P) and keep two huge wings for the Skylander)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: ivandogovich on August 08, 2014, 06:09:58 pm
Derp, you were right.  ;) Plane 3, looks fine in that respect.  Also, Rear Engines are fine as well as those on the wings. 
And I thing wing engines look better than ground engines.  (Not that I wouldn't like the tactical advantage, ;) )

And... SKYLANDER-02WE.gif  is the better of those variants.  The extra landing gear makes sense to hold this larger craft.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 06:17:16 pm
Derp, you were right.  ;) Plane 3, looks fine in that respect.  Also, Rear Engines are fine as well as those on the wings. 
Could you be as accurate as possible : PLANE3.gif ?
PLANE3.gif does not have any rear engines ?!
I try to understand... You prefer :
- PLANE.gif because of the "4 engines"
- PLANE3.gif because of only "2 spoilers" and "small rear wings"
also you'd like a mix of "4 engines", "2 spoilers", "small rear wings" ?

And I thing wing engines look better than ground engines.  (Not that I wouldn't like the tactical advantage, ;) )
I totally agree, that's why I will provide at least two versions any time : a real version with wing engines, and a fictional version with ground engines for tactical advantage

Let's begin with Skylander
And... SKYLANDER-02WE.gif  is the better of those variants.  The extra landing gear makes sense to hold this larger craft.
I will provide both these 4 versions

I removed extra landing gears on 01WE/03GE because of doors ground tiles : 1 door ground tile = 1 gear (I tried with extra gears too, but it was a little strange)

I positioned 4 spoilers to make a clear difference with other smaller crafts (cruiser, trooper, guardian, ...).

Do you think I have to remove the spoilers on middle wings and keep only spoilers of rear wings ?
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: ivandogovich on August 08, 2014, 06:30:46 pm
Plane3.gif >> I prefer that one for the wing ratio (large front, small in back) and the vertical stabilizers in the rear.  :)
Engine wise, It think that two engines are fine on midsize variants. It looks fine on Plane3. 
On larger craft, 4 engines would be fine.

On the whole I don't really feel like Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft works well with aircraft design.   In the majority of modern aircraft they are at the rear of the craft as it gives the rudder leverage on turning it.  Some exotic designs put them at the front of the craft, but these are very few and far between. ;)

Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 06:33:22 pm
Plane3.gif >> I prefer that one for the wing ratio (large front, small in back) and the vertical stabilizers in the rear.  :)
Engine wise, It think that two engines are fine on midsize variants. It looks fine on Plane3. 
On larger craft, 4 engines would be fine.

On the whole I don't really feel like Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft works well with aircraft design.   In the majority of modern aircraft they are at the rear of the craft as it gives the rudder leverage on turning it.  Some exotic designs put them at the front of the craft, but these are very few and far between. ;)
Ok so :
- I will take PLANE03.GIF as a base for Skycruiser (22P)
- I will remove Vertical Stabilizers in the middle of the craft for the Skylander

EDIT: Skylander
- GE = Ground Engines ; WE = Wing Engines
- LD = with Large Doors ; SD = Small Doors only
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 07:09:29 pm
I agree that plane3.gif looks the best. The only thing I would change is to make the engines a little bit shorter, so they don't stick out the front of the wings so much. They can be almost flush with the wing, like they are on skylander-02we.gif.

The larger one.. I don't know.. To me it looks too long and skinny, the 2 pairs of similar wings look like too much (and the intake of the rear engines is right in the exhaust of the front ones, which is more of an issue than one might think if the worry of VTOL aircrafts choking their engine because of air recirculation still holds).

I am also not sure it is warranted. The avenger carries 26 troops at most and it is the Ultimate Craft. Of course, it might be considered so because it is at once your best fighter and your best transporter, so one could argue that as your "best fighter and pretty good transport", it's still the ultimate craft but I am not sure it should be outdone as a transport. I am finding the the skyranger's 14 troops is most of the time enough (in most of the UFO missions, some of my soldiers end up just walking along not finding aliens, or picking their while my breachers clear the UFO. Bases and terror missions are different, but not that different.

A conventional plane carrying 16-20 soldiers should be enough, I think. It is then an upgrade on the skyranger, but also leaves the avenger as the ultimate craft. I am thinking of going:

1 - Skyranger (14 troops)
2 - Alloy Skyranger (16 troops & faster) + smaller plane (10 troops & a fair bit faster
3 - Hybrid Skyranger (uses Alloy + UFO Navigation; 18 troops and faster than alloy large plane)
  + smaller plane (12 troops and faster than the alloy small plane).

Of course, the small planes will be outdone by the lightning once it becomes available, but until then it is a great craft to quickly go to a small landed UFO before it takes off again (and they can take a HWP). Similarly, the avenger will outshine the larger planes, but that's the point, it's the best craft.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 07:17:54 pm
I agree that plane3.gif looks the best. The only thing I would change is to make the engines a little bit shorter, so they don't stick out the front of the wings so much. They can be almost flush with the wing, like they are on skylander-02we.gif.
I will do

The larger one.. I don't know.. To me it looks too long and skinny, the 2 pairs of similar wings look like too much (and the intake of the rear engines is right in the exhaust of the front ones, which is more of an issue than one might think if the worry of VTOL aircrafts choking their engine because of air recirculation still holds).
I will keep these 4 engines to make a difference with other ones, as some modders are not against having 4 engines, but I trust you about the air circulation...
Wait for the Skycruiser that will have small rear wings and 2 engines only

I am also not sure it is warranted. The avenger carries 26 troops at most and it is the Ultimate Craft. Of course, it might be considered so because it is at once your best fighter and your best transporter, so one could argue that as your "best fighter and pretty good transport", it's still the ultimate craft but I am not sure it should be outdone as a transport. I am finding the the skyranger's 14 troops is most of the time enough (in most of the UFO missions, some of my soldiers end up just walking along not finding aliens, or picking their while my breachers clear the UFO. Bases and terror missions are different, but not that different.
No problem. Some are asking for huge capacity, so I propose this Skylander (as XCOMFan, I like the SkyRanger and am not in urgency to use Lightning/Avenger...).
You could even use it but setting parameters to not allow more than 20 soldiers


A conventional plane carrying 16-20 soldiers should be enough, I think. It is then an upgrade on the skyranger, but also leaves the avenger as the ultimate craft. I am thinking of going:

1 - Skyranger (14 troops)
2 - Alloy Skyranger (16 troops & faster) + smaller plane (10 troops & a fair bit faster
3 - Hybrid Skyranger (uses Alloy + UFO Navigation; 18 troops and faster than alloy large plane)
  + smaller plane (12 troops and faster than the alloy small plane).

Of course, the small planes will be outdone by the lightning once it becomes available, but until then it is a great craft to quickly go to a small landed UFO before it takes off again (and they can take a HWP). Similarly, the avenger will outshine the larger planes, but that's the point, it's the best craft.
I will provide many sizes, then you'll just have to select one and set parameters to limit capacity to your convenience
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 07:28:10 pm
Sounds good! Thank you for doing all the work!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 08:10:24 pm
Skylander V0.1

Next step is to provide Skycruiser with at least two versions WE/GE (certainly small rear wings and 2 engines only), then Skytrooper (WE/GE)

Skylander WE-LD (the 4th) should be the best version of Skylander (small wing engines, no soldier outside if capacity limited to 26, 2 small rear doors + 2 big front doors)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 08, 2014, 11:48:14 pm
SkyCrafts V0.1
Includes :
- Skylanders V0.1 + fixed a route issue -> up to 30 soldiers, 24 recommended
- Skycruisers -> up to 26 soldiers, 20 recommended

Hint :
- GE = Ground Engines ; WE = Wing Engines
- LD = with Large Doors ; SD = Small Doors only

Order in RECAP is :
Skycruiser
- WE-LD
- WE-SD
- GE-LD
- GE-SD
Skylander (sorry not same order)
- WE-SD
- WE-LD
- GE-SD
- GE-LD


Next step : Skytrooper
- up to 22 soldiers
- smaller rear wings and thinner front wings
- only 2 side doors

Also let me know for people interested if you want any modification (more/less gears, ...) but please be as most accurate as possible as "Skylander WE-SD : move front wings 1 tile to the rear"
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Vulgar Monkey on August 09, 2014, 01:26:55 am
Out of curiosity, is the size of the wings dictated by engine limitations (like how big a map area you'd need to land it), or is it a stylistic thing?

I'm just thinking regarding your 'long skinny' comment....most aircraft tend to stick to a particular ratio in terms of length/width due to increased mass requiring increased lift surfaces. For a big transport with a delta-type wing you'd probably expect the whole thing to be as wide as it is long, like an equilateral triangle.

The original skyranger has that kind of profile (plus forward canards). As far as forward wings go, they're usually small and used for increased maneuvrability....in real life I dont think both sets of wings being the same size would work too well (pretty sure it'd mess up the airflow) but if you can only make wings so big it's probably a good fictional way of increasing lift surface size to make the plane look more balanced.

Shame the engine doesnt let you do wingtip stabilisers....again, from a design perspective they just look very cool. :)

Not that these rangers dont look cool, I just have a habit of overthinking unecessarily. :p
Keep up the good work dude.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 09, 2014, 02:14:58 am
As an introduction, I explained in earlier post that I have absolutely no "craft design capabilities"  :-[ but as I am able to modify the Skyranger to make variants, I propose my help for people who wish to make some modifications too, and I enjoy any advice  :)
Out of curiosity, is the size of the wings dictated by engine limitations (like how big a map area you'd need to land it), or is it a stylistic thing?

I'm just thinking regarding your 'long skinny' comment....most aircraft tend to stick to a particular ratio in terms of length/width due to increased mass requiring increased lift surfaces. For a big transport with a delta-type wing you'd probably expect the whole thing to be as wide as it is long, like an equilateral triangle.
You're right, I have not the possibility to make wings larger than the big one, as the Skyranger map size is limited (max width = 10 ; max length 20)

I think I will make the rear wings just a little smaller (1 tile).
The problem is that I want to make perhaps 5 or 6 different sizes of Skyranger (30/26/22/18/14/10/6), and make them as different as possible...

The original skyranger has that kind of profile (plus forward canards). As far as forward wings go, they're usually small and used for increased maneuvrability....in real life I dont think both sets of wings being the same size would work too well (pretty sure it'd mess up the airflow) but if you can only make wings so big it's probably a good fictional way of increasing lift surface size to make the plane look more balanced.
Right, I had no other possibility than make it larger

Shame the engine doesnt let you do wingtip stabilisers....again, from a design perspective they just look very cool. :)

Not that these rangers dont look cool, I just have a habit of overthinking unecessarily. :p
Keep up the good work dude.
It's not totally right...
In fact the engine does, I not...

I can use only one part of the spoiler, but it's far to high I guess (cf. PLANE.gif) EDIT: perhaps better than nothing

Then, the way to make it possible is to modify a PCK. There are tools on this site to do so, but for the moment, I did not take time to have a look at it.
If you are interested to deal with, you're welcome  8) you will find the PCK in the zip archive under Resources\Terrain
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 11, 2014, 12:21:20 am
Updated with Skywatcher, Skyliner and new Skyspotter and Skytrooper

Per order :
Skytrooper&Skyliner
- Skyliner GE
- Skyliner WE
- Skytrooper GE
- Skytrooper WE

Skywatcher&Skyspotter
- Skywatcher
- Skyspotter

Available in thread header (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2706.msg28213#msg28213)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 11, 2014, 07:43:59 am
Hello Aldorn!
First of all, thank you very much for sharing your excellent work here!

  As you said, I wanted to add one (as starters) of you improved assault craft to my personal mod, which is in fact, a complementary mod to the Final Mod Pack. Because I don't like very much the Alloy Skyranger included in the FMP mod (I dont think a V/STOL aircraft should land on its belly, and having the cargo compartment floor at the same level as the ground), I decided to include the Skytrooper design (but with somewhat reduced cargo capacity, 20 troops/3 vehicles), so I worked including all sections of your .rul file to my custom one (except for the "startingBase" section). Also I wanted to the skytrooper to be available to be built after researching the "Improved Skyranger" topic, to make it compatible with the FMP mod.

 The problem is that immediately after finishing the research on "Improved Skyranger", when I hit the "View Reports" button, the game crashes. On the other hand if i just hit the "Ok" button, the games continues. I think the problem is with the ufopaedia section, but I really cannot figure where my mistake is...

May be you, or someone else can have a quick look to  the .rul file in order to find where the problem is?

Thanks a lot!!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 11, 2014, 08:06:40 am
Ok, I think I found the cause... To replace the Alloy Skyranger with the Skytrooper, I had to delete the first craft declared by the FMP mod, so I added the line"- delete: ..." but I just did it in the crafts section. Now I also deleted the "Alloy Skyranger" in the manufacture and ufopaedia sections, and all seems to run smoothly. I am now researching the Skytrooper, and I will see after the research work is finished if the correct info can be seen in the ufopedia, manufacturing, etc...

Aldorn: Thanks again for the new ships! If everything is ok with this first "integration" work, I would really like to add also one of the big craft with side doors and one of the smaller exploration (with big radar range) ones....

A little request to you, just for "eye candy", but I think it will improve the looks of the mod: would you consider to modify the two "big eyed" smaller craft to have a larger (longer?) radome to emphasize its role as sensor/exploration craft? I think they would look more different to the others and will add to the inmersion of the game... :-) A million thanks again!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 11, 2014, 06:16:00 pm
Ok, I think I found the cause...
Nice

A little request to you, just for "eye candy", but I think it will improve the looks of the mod: would you consider to modify the two "big eyed" smaller craft to have a larger (longer?) radome to emphasize its role as sensor/exploration craft? I think they would look more different to the others and will add to the immersion of the game... :-) A million thanks again!
I'm sorry I am not sure to understand your request

Are you speaking about SkySpotter and SkyWatcher ?

If so :
- larger is not possible, as I miss sprites to make it nice
- longer would make it like Skyranger...

Did you perhaps expect something like this ??
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 11, 2014, 06:45:03 pm
Not exactly, I was refering to the possibility of drawing both the Skyspotter and Skywatcher with a longer radome... The total lenght of the craft is very good-looking, but I just wodered if, to indicate that they have a more powerful radar, that feature could be visually reflected in the craft drawing, hence, the bigger or longer radome...
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 11, 2014, 06:47:03 pm
radome as in radar covering dome? The "big white ball" that we are used to seeing? What part of the planes do you associate with a radome? I'm guessing the yellow nose, but.. I don't know.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 11, 2014, 07:00:35 pm
Yes! A bigger (or just longer) yellow nose in front of the aircraft! I don't think it is possible to be made to look more "bulbous", but if you can make the nose (just the nose, not the aircraft itself) of the aircraft longer and paint it in yellow, it would be WUN-DER-BAR!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 11, 2014, 07:22:47 pm
Now I understand
Unfortunately this is not possible at this time... :-[
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 12, 2014, 02:11:58 am
Yes, I supposed that... But, don't worry, all your craft variant designs look beautiful enough! Thanks for sharing your brilliant work, man!  8)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 17, 2014, 01:20:58 am
Hi Aldorn!

I am working on integrating new crafts in my mod, and I was wondering if you could flex your craft building abilities again by making:

1- A regular skyranger, but with a small (one tile wide) side door on each side, right behind the small front wings.
2- Take the craft above, elongate the fuselage by adding one tile behind the large rear wings, keeping the wings where they are, but moving the vertical stabilizers (the vertical wings) back one tile, so they are still at the back of the plane.

Thank you in advance!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 17, 2014, 02:35:43 am
Hi Aldorn!

I am working on integrating new crafts in my mod, and I was wondering if you could flex your craft building abilities again by making:

1- A regular skyranger, but with a small (one tile wide) side door on each side, right behind the small front wings.
2- Take the craft above, elongate the fuselage by adding one tile behind the large rear wings, keeping the wings where they are, but moving the vertical stabilizers (the vertical wings) back one tile, so they are still at the back of the plane.

Thank you in advance!

Not sure to have well understood your request. If it does not suit your expectation, try to be as accurate as possible (I did not put the side door right to the cock-pit to not loose the XCOM star ; I did not add any floor tile to the second version as not mentioned...)

Rename all files before use (from PLANE.xxx to WHATYOUWANT.xxx) to avoid overwriting vanilla Skyranger

Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 17, 2014, 09:05:23 am
Oh man.. Almost there! I was trying to be as accurate as possible, sorry. For me the fuselage is the whole cylinder, so if adding to the top/walls, it would also add to the floor. Could you elongate the floor of the long skyranger to go with the elongated walls/top? (Making it cargo space 16, by pushing the ramp back one tile and adding a "row" of floor tiles).

Also, could you move the side door to behind the wings? Good point on the overlap with the "X" symbol, so, could you move the "X" one tile back too. (So the doors go where the backmost/rightmost "X" currently is, immediately behind the little wings, and a new "X" immediately behind these new doors = one tile back from where the backmost "X" is on a regular skyranger.) Basically, take the door you just added, and the "X" to its right, and move them both one tile towards the back of the aircraft.

Finally, would it be possible to add floor tiles hanging off the sides of the skyranger in front of where the side doors are? (like you have done for the plane in the top right spot of your preview on your first post).

Thanks so much! I really need to figure out how to work with graphics/maps... As soon as I come back from my holiday!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 17, 2014, 10:33:12 am
Oh man.. Almost there! I was trying to be as accurate as possible, sorry. For me the fuselage is the whole cylinder, so if adding to the top/walls, it would also add to the floor. Could you elongate the floor of the long skyranger to go with the elongated walls/top? (Making it cargo space 16, by pushing the ramp back one tile and adding a "row" of floor tiles).
Done for Longer

Also, could you move the side door to behind the wings? Good point on the overlap with the "X" symbol, so, could you move the "X" one tile back too. (So the doors go where the backmost/rightmost "X" currently is, immediately behind the little wings, and a new "X" immediately behind these new doors = one tile back from where the backmost "X" is on a regular skyranger.) Basically, take the door you just added, and the "X" to its right, and move them both one tile towards the back of the aircraft.
Done for both

Finally, would it be possible to add floor tiles hanging off the sides of the skyranger in front of where the side doors are? (like you have done for the plane in the top right spot of your preview on your first post).
Done for both, but beware adding this ground tile will make your units deploy on it...
(This means capacity can be raised to 16 resp.18)

Is it ok now ?
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 17, 2014, 03:49:57 pm
Look out with those lateral doors platforms! While recovering a downed terror ships from the Snakemen/Chryssalids with a Skytrooper craft, one of those ugly monsters (the Chryssalid) walked from the roof of a building, along the forward wing leading edge and then down to this small 1 tile platform and then walked right into the aircraft, killing instantly one of my soldiers and turning another one into a zombie!! That mission did not end well!  :( Just a warning!
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Arthanor on August 17, 2014, 04:05:04 pm
@Aldorn: Perfect! Thank you so much!

@guille: Man! that was one agile chryssalid! That sounds horrible.. and a bit awesome too ;) Like something out of a movie with the alien jumping off a roof and sneaking into the craft to get the unsuspecting crew.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 17, 2014, 07:16:13 pm
Indeed, a truly horrible experience, with bullet firing rifles ineffective and the soldier with a rocket launcher unable to fire because ao all the other troops present surroinding him and the alien...  Yes, just like the sneaky Xenomorph aliens from the Alien/Aliens saga!

By the way, Aldorn, as per field troop reuqest: would be possible for you to modify the Skytrooper craft without the two lateral doors platforms? They would like to be sure that this event will not happen again! :-)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 18, 2014, 10:50:30 am
By the way, Aldorn, as per field troop reuqest: would be possible for you to modify the Skytrooper craft without the two lateral doors platforms? They would like to be sure that this event will not happen again! :-)
I let you rename all the files to your convenience
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 18, 2014, 04:44:31 pm
Thank you very much Aldorn!  For your brilliant work and your prompt answer to the front troops request!! :-)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: guille1434 on August 18, 2014, 05:24:07 pm
Ok, for the order freaks like me, here is a new file with all the Skyrangers variants made by Aldorn, including the last "cutomized" one: the skytrooper with wing engines and no lateral platforms.
The files for the original version were renamed SKYTROOPER_ALT_WE, and the new variant is SKYTROOPER_WE. Note that the ground engined variant remains without any change (SKYTROOPER_GE files). Thanks again for sharing!  8)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: smexyvami on August 20, 2014, 01:27:01 pm
thank you "Aldorn & guille1434" for this i have taken a likeing to the skyliner for the small doors on the sides.

i have a few small suggestions: ships have small doors that open and close on the side. the smaller ships are faster and have weapon hard points so thay can be used to take out small ufos and land a small force. remove the fact the a new game sets skytooper as your crew trasport and removes your interseptors i think that was in there for testing ?
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on August 20, 2014, 03:00:45 pm
remove the fact the a new game sets skytooper as your crew trasport and removes your interseptors i think that was in there for testing ?
Right, it is just here as an example
Stuff is available, then it's easy to mod it as expected (add weapons, rent cost, research, ...)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: LeBashar on August 20, 2014, 03:28:30 pm
Is it possible to make the lateral door able to be open or close like UFOs's one ?
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 20, 2014, 03:33:51 pm
Is it possible to make the lateral door able to be open or close like UFOs's one ?

Technically yes, but it'd require making a new tileset with a new type of door. (Which is not really that hard to do, but still, it's a new tileset, which means more weight on the entire game.)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Dioxine on August 20, 2014, 06:28:26 pm
And having to deal with "OMG A FLOATER FLEW IN THROUGH THE DOOR AND KILLED EVERYONE" pissed players :)
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: smexyvami on August 20, 2014, 07:26:36 pm
Right, it is just here as an example
Stuff is available, then it's easy to mod it as expected (add weapons, rent cost, research, ...)

ya thats nice and all but guille1434 made your models usable in game for the nubs like me . allso there to slow :P i looked at another skyranger upgrade and edited the speeds for myself :3

Technically yes, but it'd require making a new tileset with a new type of door. (Which is not really that hard to do, but still, it's a new tileset, which means more weight on the entire game.)
i would like to see this . i had to ulock the 60 fps becuse of the fmp new maps thay get movement lag if thats what you mean by weight
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 21, 2014, 08:22:05 am
i would like to see this . i had to ulock the 60 fps becuse of the fmp new maps thay get movement lag if thats what you mean by weight

No, it wouldn't really be noticeable in the game, I only meant more files to keep on your drive. The game should accept another tileset, ubless maybe the terrain this craft lands on contains far more tilesets than it should.
Title: Re: [CRAFTS] Material for Modders (Skyranger, SkyTrooper, SkySpotter, ...)
Post by: Aldorn on June 30, 2016, 09:14:17 pm
I found a way to fix issue that made tanks unable to exit provided new crafts
It only happens in case you do not want to replace Skyranger but one of them, but add one (or more) new crafts
If so, it involves to rename MAP and RMP (as PLANE.MAP and PLANE.RMP are already used for vanilla Skyranger)

Let's say: MYNEWPLANE.MAP and MYNEWPLANE.RMP
In this case, we have to fix also bug coming from vanilla SKYRANGER for this new craft. To do so, just add a ruleset file with following contents
MCDPatches:
# pathFinding Hacks.
# bigWall 1 = regular bigwall, no movement allowed.
# bigWall 2 = can walk by north-east/south-west
# bigWall 3 = can walk by north-west/south-east
# bigWall 4 = acts as west wall
# bigWall 5 = acts as north wall
# bigWall 6 = acts as east wall
# bigWall 7 = acts as south wall
# bigWall 8 = acts as east and south wall
  - type: MYNEWSKYRANGER
    data:
      - MCDIndex: 62
        bigWall: 0

PS: all theses crafts work correctly as long as their MAP and RMP files are named "PLANE" (and declared as well in ruleset files under Skyranger nodes), as in this case, the standard xcom1 MCDPatch will be applied

EDIT: Mensch, there is still an issue, as tank is able to exit craft but cannot get back into it (it succeeds climbing the ramp, but seems to be unable to find the path after that). I made some attempts to patch it but I failed

EDIT2: I have it... Issue is only for smaller versions, and it is due to rear wheels placed under craft entrance. For some reason, it is not possible to find a way above these wheels, so the solution is to move these wheels aside, as for vanilla skyranger (and for provided longer versions)

EDIT3: finally, I updated zip in header message to V0.3
Done :
- move wheels aside for smaller versions SkySpotter and SkyWatcher
- update ruleset in order to use vanilla PLANE terrain files, so that MCDPatch has not to be defined for each version (as already defined for PLANE in standard/xcom1)
- remove TERRAIN files as not necessary anymore (will used PLANE.MCD, PLANE.PCK, PLANE.TAB)