Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 493768 times)

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2014, 05:46:20 pm »
I entirely reconsidered the advanced weapons to obtain something simpler and more coherent.

At beginning of game, I entirely withdrawn the laser technology with the profit of weapons Gauss, as natural evolution of the conventional human armament (after alloy ammo in dependency).

In parallel, the player will be able to develop the Alien weapons to gain in fire power, but with for counterpart the very expensive in Elerium.

The laser technology will come only tardily with the portable nuclear energy source.

I have to voluntarily separate technologies from the vessel of that of the weapons, because even if energy is similar are application is different.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2014, 06:07:22 pm by Human Ktulu »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2014, 06:37:41 pm »
I like it. I like it a lot.

(BTW, we can drop the "nuclear" part from the lasers, right? Because right now there are no other lasers?)

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2014, 07:21:36 pm »
I think you should regroup the gauss weapons with their respective clip, because separately they don't serve any purpose.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2014, 07:31:00 pm »
I think you should regroup the gauss weapons with their respective clip, because separately they don't serve any purpose.

I agree. It doesn't really matter that much if you do them together or not (as long as prerequisites are the same), so I didn't mention it at this stage, but yeah... Discovering them together makes more sense.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2014, 08:24:38 pm »
I'm completly ok with you.  ;D

But if the laser's techs are developed tardily in game, which level of power you thinks that it must be ?
A little more of vanilla game or similar ?

There are interesting things in Flako diagram's, but broadly I found it too heavy and complex. I think that the challenge is to take the good ideas without overloading the game.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2014, 08:38:54 pm »
But if the laser's techs are developed tardily in game, which level of power you thinks that it must be ?
A little more of vanilla game or similar ?

I would like to keep it as vanilla as possible. A fast, auto-fire weapon with a good damage type (most aliens aren't resistant to lasers) is still invaluable, even if not as strong as some other guns. Plus, I don't want to alienate people who just got used to how lasers are and don't want any changes.

There are interesting things in Flako diagram's, but broadly I found it too heavy and complex. I think that the challenge is to take the good ideas without overloading the game.

His ideas are for another thread, so they could be made with something slightly different in mind. Still, at least some of his ideas are very interesting - like having to interrogate several aliens instead of just one to unlock some research.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2014, 11:18:42 pm »
Ok so, for advanced weapons we have :

- Alien Armoury Expanded
- Gauss Mod
- Scatter Laser (and maybe a little graphic mod for other laser weapons)
- Dart Rifle
- Fushion Torch
- Mind Missile (good or bad idea ?)

I think we can forget "Terran Plasma Weapons" ?
If not What else ?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2014, 11:28:32 pm »
Yeah, I think we can forget the Terran Plasma Weapons mod, unless we come up with something really new. I keep thinking about a Plasma Shotgun, but it sounds a bit... silly. Still, I think it would be cool. ;)

As for other stuff, there are a few small mods that I think are worthy (or more!) to be added, particularly:
- Ryskeliini's Elerium Mace (after some serious nerfing),
- Clownagent's Mind Missile (perhaps with a whole new launcher and a set of rockets to simplify and streamline things, but I like the general idea),
- perhaps Civilian's Heat-Ray mod - I haven't tried it out yet, but it looks solid (though I'm against fixed TU cost in this case).

Of course I'm only talking about weapons here; there are other mods I consider worthy or even essential (for example Shadow's Power Suit Helm Off, or Civilian's various terrain mods), but we'll get there later.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #68 on: May 04, 2014, 01:19:17 am »
Quote
Ryskeliini's Elerium Mace
Why not ?
Quote
Clownagent's Mind Missile
I see extra guided-missile for standard rocket launcher, this is it ?
Quote
perhaps Civilian's Heat-Ray mod
mmh, I dont know. I need to test it, and if this weapon use alloy and elerium, we need to found a good place in advanced weapon's tech tree.
Quote
Of course I'm only talking about weapons here; there are other mods I consider worthy or even essential (for example Shadow's Power Suit Helm Off, or Civilian's various terrain mods), but we'll get there later.
Yes, we will see that more later with the other "extra addons" packs.

-----------------------

If not I reconsidered the tech tree for vessels  ;D
This time I tried to play with mind prob research and Falko's idea for fuel.
Finnaly, I found too complex to use 2 or 3 alloy quality.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2014, 01:31:06 am by Human Ktulu »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #69 on: May 04, 2014, 01:39:44 am »
I see extra guided-missile for standard rocket launcher, this is it ?

Yes, but after some thought I decided it would be better to make a new Rocket Launcher and new rockets (Small, Large and Incendiary, unless we do something differently). The reasons are:
1) To make the system more clear - new weapon, new ammo.
2) To make it more logical - how do you control the missile with no controls on your Rocket Launcher? You need a special Rocket Launcher!
I also think we could use standard rockets as raw materials for new, mind-guided rockets (after all we just need to install the psi control device). Unless we make completely new rockets.

mmh, I dont know. I need to test it, and if this weapon use alloy and elerium, we need to found a good place in advanced weapon's tech tree.

Same here. It's just a possibility.

I see extra If not I reconsidered the tech tree for vessels  ;D
This time I tried to play with mind prob research and Falko's idea for fuel.

It looks fine to me :) Though frankly I don't know the exact parameters of these new planes, and I'm too tired to do it now. :P

I see extra If not Finnaly, I found too complex to use 2 or 3 alloy quality.

I actually like this, it was elegant and solved some problems regarding various equipment... But all right, we can do without it.

Offline Falko

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #70 on: May 04, 2014, 06:15:44 am »
the first time i started using i mods i put a bunch into the folder and realized after my first game .. it was too easy
now i always try to balance my changes
make something important easier should be balanced by making something related harder

more better weapons <-> make alien tougher
make plasmabeam/clips(/fuel) eat your elerium  <-> give the option to recycle elerium based items (recycled items are not sold +cost for producing/recycling of items)
...
additionally i try to make choices available
the normal thunderstormstorm mod give a awesome craft after alien alloy (no elerium usage, early in game, fast speed, health ~= firestorm, downside: 1 weaponslot)
way overpowered / to early available
in the tree i proposed you can get to the first (a bit better) craft with [alien alloys, plasma rifle/clip, resistance alloy]=4 techs, the other crafts need 6, 11,12 techs compared to avenger with 16tech+5 engineers-alien research

in my idea heap is
research useful earth-technology-crafts <--> make the range of ufo random


my thoughts on the earth crafts:

Advanced Fuel => 2 Elerium+2000$=10 Fuel units
that way new crafts use elerium but only 1/5 of the firestorm-avenger type crafts
item based fuel consumption is based on "fly time" not speed as the default crafts do
the fuel refill rate can be used to distinguish between crafts in regard to fuel consumption

Alloy skyranger: there was somewhere a 16-soldier skyranger i wanted to reuse but i cant find him anymore

i will try to make distinctions between crafts in a way that 'getting the "last" craft' is best is not always true
e.g. skyranger vs. alloy skyranger
- alloy skyranger has less fuel reserves then original
+ alloy skyranger has more speed (less weight in hull/fuell)
+ alloy skyranger has 2 more soldier slots
+/- alloy skyranger still costs rent (1/2 rent of skyranger (maintenance, technicians, ..) )
+ alloy skyranger has a sell value (slightly above production costs)
- alloy skyranger can not be repaired (repairRate=0 untested)

for the earth-tech-fighter crafts i dislike the craft1->craft2->craft3->craft4 with craft4=best in all regards - therefore my tree give the choice of craft3 or craft4 after depending on craft2 and some other stuff

craft1:
normal fuel, high speed and acceleration, one weapon slot, fast refuel, fast repair, high rent (2/3 of interceptor), health=2-3x interceptor (destroyed in one shot unlikely), very small fuel reserves (cant fly further than 1,5*hyperwavedecoder range), can make a good profit with selling
[alternative: fast repair/high rent OR no repair, no rent, cheap to build]
craft2:
needs elerium enhanced fuel, speed/acceleration between interceptor and firestorm, one weapon slot, slow refuel, slow repair, low rent (1/5 of interceptor), health=slightly less than firestorm, fuel reserves huge/enough to fly to any point on the globe and patrol for some time, has double the radar range, no profit by selling

craft3 and craft4:
both: 2 weapon slots
fuel reserves: 2/3 globe reachable <-> enough fuel to fly around globe 2 times
consumption: needs 2-3 more fuel than craft2 <-> needs 2/3 fuel
speed: should be similar perhaps on with higher speed, less acceleration the other with a bit less  speed, higher acceleration
rent/repair: high <-> low
manufacture costs: can make profit <-> can make no profit

not sure what sprites/names go to what craft or in regard to craft3/4 what property is assigned to what craft i first plan to get my balancing mod "random ufo range" done


Offline yrizoud

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #71 on: May 04, 2014, 06:28:13 am »
I decided it would be better to make a new Rocket Launcher
You can always make it "use" an existing launcher as component, in order to free the inventories of the "obsolete" weapon.

Oh when you said "essential", it reminded me of the daichi blade. Overpowered IMO with its default stats, but every OpenXCOM player should try it once.

Offline civilian

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #72 on: May 04, 2014, 12:25:41 pm »
Maybe it is tactically diverse and even balanced, but it makes little to no sense.
Bonus to Bravery? I assume it has a blind visor? :)
Jump Armor +10 Reactions? Does it have neural injectors or something? If so, why other armours don't have it?
Flying Armour +20 Psi Defense? Why other armours don't have it if it's possible?
I actually like switching around Power Suit and Flying Suit's stats. It makes sense.
The Ultimate Suit is certainly worth considering.

The bonus to bravery is actually realistic, ask why modern-day soldiers are actually given armour and especially helmets, it is NOT because those could stop any real high-powered projectile.

The bonus to reaction: I made this because of your description (ufopediatext) mentioning increased mobility  ;)

The flying armour is no longer a flying armor only, it now is a PSI-Suit in my game. the other armours do not have it because they are older and less advanced, simple as that. ;D

About the Ultimate Suit: Make sure it is NOT completely invulnerable, more than 130 armor is too much.

oh and feel free to edit/change the Heat-Ray weapon stats if you want to use them.  :)

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #73 on: May 04, 2014, 09:16:23 pm »
Other versions of diagramms ...

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #74 on: May 04, 2014, 11:35:35 pm »
now i always try to balance my changes
make something important easier should be balanced by making something related harder

Not a bad mindset. Though I think our project is a bit complex, so it'll need some broad strokes anyway (and a lot of testing).

my thoughts on the earth crafts:

I don't really have any strong opinion on it yet, but it looks fine. Do you have more specific stats in mind? I'd like to see a table for comparison.

You can always make it "use" an existing launcher as component, in order to free the inventories of the "obsolete" weapon.

Yeah, it's logical. Upgrade the missiles, upgrade the launcher!

Oh when you said "essential", it reminded me of the daichi blade. Overpowered IMO with its default stats, but every OpenXCOM player should try it once.

That's the combat knife, right? Yeah, it's already rebalanced and added to the gun compilation mod. 8)

The bonus to bravery is actually realistic, ask why modern-day soldiers are actually given armour and especially helmets, it is NOT because those could stop any real high-powered projectile.

No, but it's good against shrapnel.
Anyway, that's not how Bravery works. It's checked only when many soldiers on your side die. Therefore, more effective armour means Bravery bonus for everyone. ;)
Besides, why not a bonus to the Power Suit then?

The bonus to reaction: I made this because of your description (ufopediatext) mentioning increased mobility  ;)

Well, it flies. :)

The flying armour is no longer a flying armor only, it now is a PSI-Suit in my game. the other armours do not have it because they are older and less advanced, simple as that. ;D

Yeah, that's fine. But I need to think about psionic outfits in general, I'd prefer a wearable item (preferably a belt, since it can only go in one place if it's 1x4). This would have to be enabled by the developers first though.

About the Ultimate Suit: Make sure it is NOT completely invulnerable, more than 130 armor is too much.

The HPG can go through 130 armour with some luck. But I get what you're saying, and I agree.

oh and feel free to edit/change the Heat-Ray weapon stats if you want to use them.  :)

Thanks :) It depends on how clutter the tree is. But I really like your design. :)

Other versions of diagramms ...

One thing: you can't use a plane as a component for making another plane - the code won't allow this. This is because you may have several planes in your base, each of them with a different set of weapons, so the game wouldn't know which one to choose.