Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 290256 times)

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2014, 11:12:42 pm »
Fine !

I renamed the project to "Final Mod Pack", I dont want that project interest only french people !

Quote
Because would make them ridiculously overpowered? :P
In UFO:AI and Xenonaut, it's not ! I never understand the interest of delay system in XCom for grenades. Using a tricks for the same thing ? it's strange !

Quote
Nah, your English is fine :)
Thanks, with some help from systranet.net :p

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #31 on: April 27, 2014, 12:50:51 am »
Fine !

I renamed the project to "Final Mod Pack", I dont want that project interest only french people !

Because this is THE REAL ULTIMATE MOD! :D

Now. I have attached a fragment of the new, proposed tech tree.

In this line of thought, I propose to:
1) Make alien interrogations necessary to the laser tech;
2) Make the player research some techs necessary for capturing live aliens.

I made this diagram using Dia, an excellent program for graphs I just discovered. I suggest we use this from now on, since we can't realistically work on .pngs. (.dia file in the zip.)

Thoughts?

EDIT: I just noticed something that may be misleading: at the very top, it says "any live alien autopsy". By this, I mean not a living alien (that would be weird - it's an autopsy after all), but a biological alien, as opposed to a Cyberdisc or a Sectopod.

EDIT: some handobs were wrongly numbered in that previous file. Here's an update too.
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 04:42:46 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2014, 01:15:16 pm »
Wow  :o  I will see all that.

Update first post with new addon. Of course it's need to balance it much more.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2014, 02:17:47 pm »
Yeah, I'll need to think of the armours... I'm not really ready for this, it's too much of a task at the moment.

All I can say at this point is that I'm not very enthusiastic about all these beginner armours (kevlar, dragonskin), for a simple reason: either they'll be ridiculously overpowered (like they are now) or they will add little to the game.
Since X-Com troops already have some armour, even when not armoured, I always assumed they wear some elementary protection. Why go beyond this assumption? Plasma fire is too strong to make a big difference anyway.
If we had enemies with human weapons, then I can see these armours playing some role - because human weapons are weaker and have different damage types. Against plasma, however, it's just a gimmick that will artificially expand your lists.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2014, 02:45:42 pm »
No problems, we will see that more later.

For dragonskin I hesitated to include it, but it's maybe interesting to see an strong human armour (front armour near to personnal armour value) but with penalities (weight,  stamina and reactions - to see for TU's). Yes against Plasma it's not significant but kevlar is better than nothing ? (or set to 0 armor for uniform and lower kevlar maybe)
In addition I don't see the level of damage modifier.

Another thing, I think it's will be well if the tanks are in a separate rulset.
I continuous to look at your proposals :)
« Last Edit: April 27, 2014, 02:50:45 pm by Human Ktulu »

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2014, 03:02:36 pm »
No problems, we will see that more later.

For dragonskin I hesitated to include it, but it's maybe interesting to see an strong human armour (front armour near to personnal armour value) but with penalities (weight,  stamina and reactions - to see for TU's). Yes against Plasma it's not significant but kevlar is better than nothing ? (or set to 0 armor for uniform and lower kevlar maybe)
In addition I don't see the level of damage modifier.

Damage modifiers, stat penalties/bonuses and other armour features is something that needs to be addressed in a complex way, at the same time. We need to make an Excel table with all armours and their stats... Then analyse it.
BTW, I think there's plenty of room for more armour types - some may give less armour but more mobility, etc.

Another thing, I think it's will be well if the tanks are in a separate rulset.

I agree. I'll do it when... uh, when I get to that. :) For now, we're still in the design stage; for example we still don't know what to do about plasma, to make it accessible later. (In UFO: Extraterrestrials, you simply needed a live Commander for that, but it's a bit crude.)

I continuous to look at your proposals :)

Well, for now I'm attaching an update of the tech tree. :) Fenyo's ideas were included.
Of course it's still unfinished, but it is growing.

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2014, 03:15:30 pm »
The "Nuclear Laser" is more powerful than plasma and gauss ?

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #37 on: April 28, 2014, 02:48:55 am »
The "Nuclear Laser" is more powerful than plasma and gauss ?

It has unlimited ammo.
I'm not sure if it should be stronger; maybe a little.

EDIT:

As requested by Ktulu, I made a tank compilation. Bear in mind that the Minigun Tank should be removed from the weapons compilation mod - I posted a new version too.
« Last Edit: April 28, 2014, 02:57:45 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2014, 08:01:36 pm »
You sleep sometime ?

 ;D

Offline MKSheppard

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2014, 08:40:16 pm »
All I can say at this point is that I'm not very enthusiastic about all these beginner armours (kevlar, dragonskin), for a simple reason: either they'll be ridiculously overpowered (like they are now) or they will add little to the game.

I think that's when you repurpose the armor to use the extra "modifiers" we can use in OXCOM.

I always wanted a special "assault" armor using the best human technology could provide; but weighing 50 pounds through ceramic/titanium laminate plates so that the first guy off the skyranger or the first guy through the small UFO door doesn't die 100% of the time from a plasma pistol; but would be heavily encumbered by the weight of the armor.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #40 on: April 28, 2014, 08:49:37 pm »
All I can say is that I'll see what I can think of. :)

For now, I'm putting together a new tank compilation... With gauss cannons and scout drones. :)

Offline Human Ktulu

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2014, 11:45:34 pm »
- Tree tech :

If I understand, Laser and Gauss can be developped at the same time. Bbut Laser focus to destruction with scater and Gauss focus to accuracy with sniper ?

- Stun tech :

Other thing, do you think to include the Dart Rifle in adv weapon ? We can lowered power of alien stun bomb and to develop research for each alien biology and make special dart for each species ?

I finaly try Tazer, I found It too much powerfull. 22-25 May more balanced value. And Stun grenade for 15-18 ?  :P

- Basic weapons :

Now I like shootgun with AC ammunition  8) But may rebalanced it with lower accuracy.

For Sniper Rifle acuracy is too high too, 120%-130% is easy to reach, even if soldier can fire only once time.

Flamme thrower : ouch ! need to rebalenced too. It useful in spaces will have been confined, but there is enormous collateral damage for the soldier who uses it. Finally I am not very convinced of the tactical value of this weapon.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #42 on: April 29, 2014, 02:26:58 am »
- Tree tech :

If I understand, Laser and Gauss can be developped at the same time. Bbut Laser focus to destruction with scater and Gauss focus to accuracy with sniper ?

Sort of, but it's a bit more complicated:

Advantages of laser:
Better damage type,
Auto-fire,
Faster shooting (especially snap shots),
(ultimately) Unlimited ammo,
Lower weight,
(for craft cannon) Better range.

Advantages of gauss:
Higher damage,
Faster aimed shots,
More accuracy,
(for craft cannon) Better rate of fire.

This is just a general list of course, there are some nuances.

- Stun tech :

Other thing, do you think to include the Dart Rifle in adv weapon ? We can lowered power of alien stun bomb and to develop research for each alien biology and make special dart for each species ?

Yeah, I'd like to add Stun Rifle weapon too, if there are no objections. I think it's really fun, but I guess it depends on how late the Stun Launcher appears.
A separate clip for each species wouldn't be that good IMO. That would simply be too many clip types, for little gain (if any). Most aliens have similar physiology anyway (and similar to ours too).

As for the Stun Launcher itself, I would prefer not to change vanilla items without a good reason. I like it the way it is, even if it makes Dart Rifle obsolete at some point.

I finaly try Tazer, I found It too much powerfull. 22-25 May more balanced value. And Stun grenade for 15-18 ?  :P

I don't think it's too powerful at all. Bear in mind that it has such a short range that you can as well use a Stun Rod, which is much more powerful and cannot miss, and also has no clips (while taser has only 2 charges). Taser's best feature is that it is small and handy, otherwise I prefer the Stun Rod. If the taser was any weaker, it would be useless; besides, it's still not as strong as I (as a player) would like. ;)

As for the Stun Grenade, I have never actually used them yet, so... no comment. :)

- Basic weapons :

Now I like shootgun with AC ammunition  8) But may rebalanced it with lower accuracy.

Perhaps. It's way less accurate than the rifle, but stronger. More snap shots, but ultimately far less bullets per turn. Good for UFO storming, but so-so in the open field...
Oh damn, I just don't know. :P

For Sniper Rifle acuracy is too high too, 120%-130% is easy to reach, even if soldier can fire only once time.

The accuracyAimed value for the normal Rifle is 110. Sniper Rifle has to be better than that. Perhaps 160 is a bit much, yeah... But it's not much more than the Plasma Sniper Rifle. Well, I guess we could reduce all snipers - these two and the Gauss Sniper Rifle - by 10, but on the other hand they aren't very easy to use, so they need some advantage. If you think they're still too good, I'll reduce their accuracy a little, no problem. (Just remember that the Heavy Plasma Gun has accuracyAimed at 110, and it's not a sniper rifle at all.)

Flamme thrower : ouch ! need to rebalenced too. It useful in spaces will have been confined, but there is enormous collateral damage for the soldier who uses it. Finally I am not very convinced of the tactical value of this weapon.

This weapon is more for fun than anything else, but I find it moderately useful. Still, I agree it can be better balanced, I'm just not sure how. Perhaps a simple increase in max range would be enough?

EDIT: I've attached an Excel file with stats for all weapons I'm using personally, from various mods. Most of them, if not all, I would like to see in our project, so it may be useful for everyone. :)
« Last Edit: April 29, 2014, 02:34:31 am by Solarius Scorch »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #43 on: April 29, 2014, 12:42:38 pm »
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A separate clip for each species wouldn't be that good IMO. That would simply be too many clip types, for little gain (if any). Most aliens have similar physiology anyway (and similar to ours too).
At the moment it's not supported : The engine has one damage type hard-coded as "stunning", so it's not possible to make several ones that get 100% resistance from the other species.
It would work for a "toxic gun", so that at least you would get a good reason to perform autopsies and all live terrorist (and medic) interrogations.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #44 on: April 30, 2014, 12:26:06 am »
At the moment it's not supported : The engine has one damage type hard-coded as "stunning", so it's not possible to make several ones that get 100% resistance from the other species.
It would work for a "toxic gun", so that at least you would get a good reason to perform autopsies and all live terrorist (and medic) interrogations.

Agreed. The Dart Rifle is more of an exception, and it's more of a gadget than actual weapon (though it can stop an alien from eating you, if you hit and it's weakened).

Now, an upgrade! I've added Tank/Gauss and Hovertank/Gauss to the tank compilation. Next, Scout Drone.

EDIT: Of course I had to screw this up. :/ But it's fixed now. At least it has the Scout Drone now, which I think finalizes the tank chapter (well, not really, since I want to make new sprites for some tanks that don't have them, but this can wait as it doesn't affect the project in any meaningful way).
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 02:19:40 am by Solarius Scorch »