XCOM Inspired Fantasy Game

[Yankes]

Compared to XCOM, battles are expected to be completed faster, and there is no save in the battle. The only opportunity to save would be on the world map. But I will try to prevent save scumming. Still I guess people could save-scum anyway, running in the emulator. But at least I could use the PRNG to prevent reloading to achieve different result. I.e. all sites are pre-determined on the world generation, so there will be no way to reload the game until it spawns the type of monsters which can be easily defeated by the player's current army. Same with AI, which uses pre-seeded RNG, so reloading wont affect AI's behavior. IIRC, Heroes of Might & Magic IV determined when player reloaded the game to save scum some chests with random content and locked-up the PRGN, although that could have been a glitch. But I believe the error was determining the chest content on the pickup stages, instead of at its generation time.

But you in reality replace one save-scum with another. Now player can scout in ineffective way losing most of int units, checking what he can grain, then he reload and only do things in effective way, skipping all fights that do not give any benefits.
Another problem is "groundhog-day" where you can predict events in future.

I think maybe better system would be hybrid one, you precalculate 20 rolls ahead, and you store them in save. This mean couple of roll after reload will give same results but after som time you will have diffident outcomes.

Of corse this system could explored too, you can still reroll chest but it would need reload and doing lot of actions to exhaust all random buffer and try again.

[NancyGold]

But you in reality replace one save-scum with another. Now player can scout in ineffective way losing most of int units, checking what he can grain, then he reload and only do things in effective way, skipping all fights that do not give any benefits.
Another problem is "groundhog-day" where you can predict events in future.

I think maybe better system would be hybrid one, you precalculate 20 rolls ahead, and you store them in save. This mean couple of roll after reload will give same results but after som time you will have diffident outcomes.

Of corse this system could explored too, you can still reroll chest but it would need reload and doing lot of actions to exhaust all random buffer and try again.

Since saving/loading obviously has in-game economic value, it would make sense to require player spending some resources to save the progress. Similarly to how Tomb Raider games used save crystals. In a fantasy strategy game setting, saving the game can be represented as a visit to Oracle, who takes money to predict future. Now usual supply/demand rules apply to the save-game economy. And suddenly you have save-system which work even in multiplayer games. In fact, both sides can agree on saving the game at some point and pay agreed price for that. Then any of the participating players could invoke the save. Obviously that would need to be somehow integrated with the diplomacy system.

Same way I plan to implement battlescape saves as a time travel spell, which would work even in multiplayer.


Currently I'm still struggling with getting the time system itself correctly. Original XCOM had only geoscape time, while battlescape was almost disconnected from the geoscape time-wise, with the only exception being night/day battles. And night missions were a special kind of nightmare, since aliens all had night vision. Now I want to connect the battlescape time with geoscape. Each Action Point squad spends on the world map this day will be subtracted from the time available on the battlescape, if squad enters the site exploration stage today. If the battlescape time runs out, then visitor will be forced to retreat unconditionally, losing any units surrounded by the enemy. Obviously battlescape time amount should be generous enough. Say 100 or 200 turns per day, but still encourage having some reserve time. Now time travel spell will not only help with the exploration, but will also unwind the time. The only catch is that the unit performing the time travel should survive.

The remaining questions is about making it possible to travel into the future from the past. That is always harder, since future is less known than the past. Or is it? Guess physicists will correct me that future is more stable and predictable than the past ( https://www.sciencealert.com/three-black-holes-orbiting-each-other-can-t-always-go-backwards-in-time ), since the future is still there, while the past has already dissipated, leaving a few fossils at best ( https://www.space.com/tunguska-meteor-impact-explained.html ).

[Yankes]

Since saving/loading obviously has in-game economic value, it would make sense to require player spending some resources to save the progress. Similarly to how Tomb Raider games used save crystals. In a fantasy strategy game setting, saving the game can be represented as a visit to Oracle, who takes money to predict future. Now usual supply/demand rules apply to the save-game economy. And suddenly you have save-system which work even in multiplayer games. In fact, both sides can agree on saving the game at some point and pay agreed price for that. Then any of the participating players could invoke the save. Obviously that would need to be somehow integrated with the diplomacy system.

Same way I plan to implement battlescape saves as a time travel spell, which would work even in multiplayer.

If save is not free thing, then my exploit will not work, but how you will handle "load"? We have save 10 turns before, one wining player do not want to go back but losing player do not want.
If we go time  travel spell way then could we lose resources in past too? Some thing like that:
You start with X+Y of some resource you need.
To save game you spend X, You left with Y.
Couple of turns pass. You grain Z resources.
You load game spending Y+Z
Save is modified and remove Y from your resources. Continue game.
Couple of turns pass. You grain Z resources.
You can't load game because you have only Z.

This mean if you have enough resources you can multiple times force "time travel" but each time you will have less power to revert bad future.

Currently I'm still struggling with getting the time system itself correctly. Original XCOM had only geoscape time, while battlescape was almost disconnected from the geoscape time-wise, with the only exception being night/day battles. And night missions were a special kind of nightmare, since aliens all had night vision. Now I want to connect the battlescape time with geoscape. Each Action Point squad spends on the world map this day will be subtracted from the time available on the battlescape, if squad enters the site exploration stage today. If the battlescape time runs out, then visitor will be forced to retreat unconditionally, losing any units surrounded by the enemy. Obviously battlescape time amount should be generous enough. Say 100 or 200 turns per day, but still encourage having some reserve time. Now time travel spell will not only help with the exploration, but will also unwind the time. The only catch is that the unit performing the time travel should survive.

The remaining questions is about making it possible to travel into the future from the past. That is always harder, since future is less known than the past. Or is it? Guess physicists will correct me that future is more stable and predictable than the past ( https://www.sciencealert.com/three-black-holes-orbiting-each-other-can-t-always-go-backwards-in-time ), since the future is still there, while the past has already dissipated, leaving a few fossils at best ( https://www.space.com/tunguska-meteor-impact-explained.html ).

I don't think, result of this 3 body problem mean that you can't know what future is exactly because you need know current state better than physic laws allow.
Aside you need consider wavefunction collapse too, where result is unpredictable, and this even is very small can have big consequences. One simple example is that someone decide to nuke moon out the sky (IF we not nuke self out of earth), and all this need only one button press than is triggered by one neuron.

[NancyGold]

If save is not free thing, then my exploit will not work, but how you will handle "load"? We have save 10 turns before, one wining player do not want to go back but losing player do not want.
If we go time  travel spell way then could we lose resources in past too? Some thing like that:
You start with X+Y of some resource you need.
To save game you spend X, You left with Y.
Couple of turns pass. You grain Z resources.
You load game spending Y+Z
Save is modified and remove Y from your resources. Continue game.
Couple of turns pass. You grain Z resources.
You can't load game because you have only Z.

Given that backstory for save/load is the Oracle's prophecy, no transfer of resources backwards in time will be possible.
I.e. player just gains the knowledge of the future.
On the battlescape the load is the actual time travel, but it moves in time only the caster, who actually spends reagents to both set the anchor, and to return back to said anchor.

Alternative is making time-travel anchors differ in power of what they can bring back from the future. That way players can be allowed to bring back items from the future, without breaking the current balance too much. I guess one can implement moving even the whole chunks of the game world between saves with such power-based anchors.

Next one can think about integrating that with some story elements, requiring to actually perform time travel. When some temporal state in the past requires an item from the future to unlock the game progress. But that is a completely different story, requiring different level of balancing to be non-boring.

[Yankes]

Maybe I do not say this clearly, you do not transfer any resources, you "spend" your old resources when you go back in time, each time you return you have less of them.

[NancyGold]

Maybe I do not say this clearly, you do not transfer any resources, you "spend" your old resources when you go back in time, each time you return you have less of them.

You mean that instead of immediately spending say a tomb raider like save crystal immediately, the save crystal gets locked, and spent on load, but player could instead unlock it and set a new check point, so save crystals would serve more like checkpointed lives in arcade games? What would happen if player exists the game? The locked crystal will be turned into actual save game?

That would be an interesting idea to allow saves in say Mario games, but requiring spending a life.

For those who don't know, a few old console games implemented save scumming prevention method, making saves a resource. Tomb Raider is the most know example https://www.wikiraider.com/index.php/Save_Crystal

Although I don't remember them being used as actual "lives", just a way to set a checkpoint.

The practice was apparently abandoned, since game designers believe it annoys players greatly.
So modern game design instead focuses on avoiding explicit saves at all.

Anyway, at PJ forums there is a person making a tactics game:
http://pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26879

His game has a rather uncommon projection, instead of the usual isometry. Such projection stills allows for a 3d world, but with d-pad controls, where pressing up-arrow would move cursor upward. It is also a bit easier to render, than isometry. Especially if you're doing only simple maps, like that dev. You can also get away with only a single sprite direction (at least for movement). Sprites are easier to draw too. But it has a drawback: that squashed side gets less detail. If there is say a passage inside cliff, it will be harder to notice. Here I have remade his map in my engine for comparison:

[Yankes]

You mean that instead of immediately spending say a tomb raider like save crystal immediately, the save crystal gets locked, and spent on load, but player could instead unlock it and set a new check point, so save crystals would serve more like checkpointed lives in arcade games? What would happen if player exists the game? The locked crystal will be turned into actual save game?

I do not think that additional crystals should be locked in any way, you can use them for any other use, but when you reload you do not have them any more.
Image you have 4*X+Y crystals, to set check point you need have X+Y but X is spend only when you use it.
If you try 4 times get back, then 5th time will be impossible.

This system have great advantage that in multiplayer two player could try spam "go back" and game at some point will continue anyway, weaker player cannot stop game by reloading game infinite times. This could be even 3D-Chess move when you force your opponent to reload to and then you attack him using him right after return because he now have less crystals than before.


When you save game then each save point is saved too, reloading main save should not affect "in game save".


btw I think each save should have hash similar to git commits, all state is used to calculate it, and this will allow sync between multiplayer players.
Even if one player host game, everyone else know in what exactly state it should be. This will prevent cheats too, because everyone can recalculate state and see if it allowed move. Each action send to each player will look like:

NewHash: 3232323232332
Action: Move
UnitId: 42
Pos: 13, 23

And if you change state but game state is different then you miss some moves or person on other side cheat.
This could in theory allow hiding some information as if move is hidden you send only, new hash of new state.
And after finish game you need publish log of you actions, and everyone can verify if you do not cheat.

[NancyGold]

I do not think that additional crystals should be locked in any way, you can use them for any other use, but when you reload you do not have them any more.

That can be useful in multiplayer, but you will still have unlimited number of saves, and it will be just the usual save scumming.
Checkpoint offers a huge advantage. In XCOM it could mean preventing your whole squad being wiped out by a single grenade.
That usually happens only once in a mission, and due to bad planning on the players side, like putting all units together without any cover.

[NancyGold]

As of now, I'm fixing a lot of bugs and usability issues. Like when a non-humanoid, like griffin, tries to open door, player gets warned that only humanoids can open doors. Non humanoids will have to bash them out. It is unlikely I will be able to finish the game in the remaining time or that it will matter at all.

It seems I got only a few month in Ukraine, since the Kyiv court has upheld the migration service decision to deport me back to Russia. Now it is the higher appeal court, which no doubt will agree with the lower court decision. Ukraine believes that I had no right to protest against Russia and that I must speak Russian language and defend myself in the Russian court. Ukraine still has these old soviet fascist officers in there, and they openly scolded me for being a traitor, telling nonsense about "nobody likes traitors". I haven't pledged any loyalty to anyone, haven't signed any contract and Russia didn't gave me anything of value to me, therefore I'm not a traitor and have no obligation to be loyal.

If I'm lucky I can probably escape further into EU, but neo-Nazis are preparing something like a power grab in Europe (similar to Trump's one), while Russia helps them by training the terrorists. A cabal of dictators from the older elites already seized power at several EU countries. There is a even that Mussolini's granddaughter among them. Soon Europe will get concentration camps for all undesirables, and these will likely turn into death camps. States can change very quickly, if one recalls the pre-fundamentalist Iran or the Weimar Germany.

Trump's administration is already puzzled about what to do with the interned immigrants, and it is impossible to return millions of people all back to their countries of origin. If Trump wont back out, these camps will be turned into death camps. So applying today for a political asylum in US is a really bad idea, since you can get gassed together with the rest of Latinos. Of course US has these cute protests, but they are unlikely to change anything, since people are insecure, full of resentment and violence. America is not the country of freedom anymore.

I can try applying at China, but it is totalitarian and never approves any asylums, even to its own agents, like Snowden, referencing them to Russia instead.

Today there is nowhere to run. Maybe the best I can do, is trying to hop back over the Russian border and do some sabotage there? But what can I do strategically important there? At best I can only manage to blow up the gas pipeline. That will result in a few millions USD in damages to the Russian government, to the people who have many billions USD. Is there a way one can do billions in damages to Russia? Do something that will matter in the end?

[Rubber Cannonball]

Sorry to hear about your situation, but I don't think your last post helps you at all.  No country wants more refugees right now especially with covid 19 going around.  Also they really don't want troublemakers running around freely inside their borders.  Not saying you are, but your post gives that impression.  As for China, they want to improve their technology and become the world's technology leader.  You seem to have some skills that they might be interested in.  All things considered I doubt it matters much whether one is a traitor or not, but it matters a great deal if those around him believe he is a traitor.  Countries will take in even hated enemies if they have a use for them.  Just look at the former Nazi German V-2 rocket program people.  Both the Soviet Union and the United States grabbed as many of these people as they could to work on their ballistic missile and space rocketry programs.  Those former Germans had a big hand in putting the first satellites and people in space and even on the moon.

Even if one were a master assassin and could cut the heads off the snakes, there is no shortage of bad people just waiting for their chance to grab the reins of power.  As for mattering in the end, influence the youth as one day they will be running things.

[NancyGold]

You seem to have some skills that they might be interested in.  All things considered I doubt it matters much whether one is a traitor or not, but it matters a great deal if those around him believe he is a traitor.  Countries will take in even hated enemies if they have a use for them.  Just look at the former Nazi German V-2 rocket program people.  Both the Soviet Union and the United States grabbed as many of these people as they could to work on their ballistic missile and space rocketry programs.  Those former Germans had a big hand in putting the first satellites and people in space and even on the moon.

V-2 rocket gave enormous strategic advantage and combined nicely with the nuclear payload. No wonder both sides raced to recreate and improve it. In fact, both Russian and US space programs began as part of ICBM development. While I am, well, not a rockets scientist and don't really have even a BSc degree in any field. I haven't even completed the elementary school. Otherwise I would have just applied for a work visa and left Russia, and left it without much fuzz.

Back in Russia I wanted to get a degree in biology, but got expelled from the evening school after complaining that all walls there have posters with Putin, his ruling party propaganda, and that they don't teach anything beside history. The school had like 3 hours of history for 1 hour of STEM. That left me no other option but to go into conflict. That would be like America having the currently ruling president portrait in each classroom for 20 years in a row! As well as various agitation material. The government funded evening school also had a mandatory Russian Orthodox Church education, where clerics from the local temple lectured people about the government being the extension of God's will. Disregarding the kids belonging to different denominations or being non-religious.

Russian history education is not something you have to research and interpret for yourself. No. To pass the exams you must rote memorize the "facts" they tell you. If you question these facts, you will get in trouble. I.e. teacher states "WW2 started because of X", but you say "no, WW2 started because of Y." Now in response you will likely hear something like "leave the classroom now." Obviously Russian history tries to downplay the USSR role helping Hitler to raise into power and starting the war. And if you refuse to play their game, then you're a troublemaker.

Then I got fired from the job after refusing to write C++ code comments and documentation in the Russian language. I haven't seen any reason to use Russian, since all programmers know English anyway, and it would even be convenient for the company to avoid locking itself into hiring only the speakers of some single language. But the company was a Russian military contractor and they had to follow the government rules, including the conformance to the government standards, which stated even the source code comments language. While I feel that the single world's language must be the English language. But such stance obviously gets one into trouble with the local authorities. Especially since Russian elites believes that English language, as the international language, is harmful to the Russian culture, the nation and their personal security.

Common Russians are also very defensive about their language and culture. Some Russians believe the international language should be their Russian language. They feel resentment losing the cultural war to English, even if English is much simpler than Russian, and its less synthetic nature allows stating scientific and contractual details more clearly. The loss to English was inevitable. And in the end all that matters is that we have a good common language, that has a large body of information available in it. That can't be said about Esperanto or about Russian. Of course English is not perfect, but nothing is perfect - everything has trade offs. And sticking to the national language the government places itself and its citizens at a heavy disadvantage. Since today the local knowledge of English is the part of mandatory infrastructure, just like the roads and the internet cable. It has to be there if the government wants to attract or produce skilled people. The government has to process documents in English.

Anyway, currently I'm implementing various minor details, like the rotating crown overlay sprite for leader units. Dunno if that metaphor is good enough. Usually the on site activity requires to eliminate the opposing leaders, while preserving your own leaders. Losing all leaders is a game over. Losing the single leaders means the loss of gold, which is evenly divided among all leaders. That gold is not dropped to avoid giving winning player the enormous advantage. Such mechanics solves numerous problems: one being the boring "hunt that last alien part", since the player has to kill only that bandit leader, and there is absolutely no reward to waste time on grinding all the guarding mobs. As a side effect introduces the concept of "lives" - each leader is a basically a single life. A squad can have several leaders, but must have at least one. In fact, any unit can be promoted into leader with the upfront payment and the daily upkeep. Non-leader units don't have daily upkeep, but paid per battle (similarly to these old Mindscape Warhammer games). So player is incentivized to use as little units as possible, while having several leaders for a backup.



All that is a bit tricky, since it is not immediately obvious how to balance such a system. How much leader promotion should cost? Etc... And I will probably disable the ability to turn animals into leaders. It is a bit strange when a squad of knights is being led by a bat. But then again, a pack of wolves indeed has a leader. Then I also want allow players to start without initial cities, like in King's Bounty and Lords of Magic. That could be useful for a few less epic scenarios. So the upkeep for leaders should not be enormous, or it can even be proportional to the kingdoms income. I.e. the officer is some rich kingdom would obviously demand higher profit share, especially when life threatening risks are involved. Now a small rogue party will have smaller expectations. Same way currently the max loan temple gives to player is bound to players income. That is also the end game mechanics, since temple is one of the last structures city builds, and loans allow for exponential growth. Cities have no banks, but in the old times priests did banking, so it should be fine. Or not?

[Yankes]

Back in Russia I wanted to get a degree in biology, but got expelled from the evening school after complaining that all walls there have posters with Putin, his ruling party propaganda, and that they don't teach anything beside history. The school had like 3 hours of history for 1 hour of STEM. That left me no other option but to go into conflict. That would be like America having the currently ruling president portrait in each classroom for 20 years in a row! As well as various agitation material. The government funded evening school also had a mandatory Russian Orthodox Church education, where clerics from the local temple lectured people about the government being the extension of God's will. Disregarding the kids belonging to different denominations or being non-religious.

Russian history education is not something you have to research and interpret for yourself. No. To pass the exams you must rote memorize the "facts" they tell you. If you question these facts, you will get in trouble. I.e. teacher states "WW2 started because of X", but you say "no, WW2 started because of Y." Now in response you will likely hear something like "leave the classroom now." Obviously Russian history tries to downplay the USSR role helping Hitler to raise into power and starting the war. And if you refuse to play their game, then you're a troublemaker.

Then I got fired from the job after refusing to write C++ code comments and documentation in the Russian language. I haven't seen any reason to use Russian, since all programmers know English anyway, and it would even be convenient for the company to avoid locking itself into hiring only the speakers of some single language. But the company was a Russian military contractor and they had to follow the government rules, including the conformance to the government standards, which stated even the source code comments language. While I feel that the single world's language must be the English language. But such stance obviously gets one into trouble with the local authorities. Especially since Russian elites believes that English language, as the international language, is harmful to the Russian culture, the nation and their personal security.

First complaining about Putin posters is bit pointless, even if they agree with you this would not change fact that Putin is President-For-Life.

Second going openly against "history propaganda officer" is again pointless, what you or other grain form this? If you want fight they propaganda then expect they will fight against you too. If you do not like results you should not do it or not do it openly and if you did that 40 years ago you would be already in gulag.
Beside what nation do not teach "facts" about is history? Even west can criminalize some historical opinions if they fall too far from main one.
And btw I think USSR is responsible for WW2 (without they "help" Poland would fight far longer that it did).

Third refusing to use Russian in comments is stupid, I understand other Poles that refuse to use Russian or German during Partitions of Poland, but this?
Someone take your books and force you to learn new language? If you are fine to work for military contractor then you should be fine to write comments in Russian. Simply if you work for someone you should follow they demands, if you do not think your employer is moral you should not work for him at all.

[NancyGold]

First complaining about Putin posters is bit pointless, even if they agree with you this would not change fact that Putin is President-For-Life.

Second going openly against "history propaganda officer" is again pointless, what you or other grain form this? If you want fight they propaganda then expect they will fight against you too. If you do not like results you should not do it or not do it openly and if you did that 40 years ago you would be already in gulag.
Beside what nation do not teach "facts" about is history? Even west can criminalize some historical opinions if they fall too far from main one.
And btw I think USSR is responsible for WW2 (without they "help" Poland would fight far longer that it did).

Third refusing to use Russian in comments is stupid, I understand other Poles that refuse to use Russian or German during Partitions of Poland, but this?
Someone take your books and force you to learn new language? If you are fine to work for military contractor then you should be fine to write comments in Russian. Simply if you work for someone you should follow they demands, if you do not think your employer is moral you should not work for him at all.

There were not many other jobs in the city of Serpukhov, which traditionally produced equipment for the Soviet submarines. And the company I worked for has spun-off from the Ratep military factory. In fact all jobs in Russia are either in the military or in the gas/oil sector. I've also worked at the mass spam company, but since IT got weaponized, their services were used not for ads, but for the blatant propaganda spam.

Had I not bribed some officials to escape, I would have already got 10 or more years in jail or a nuthouse (they believe it is insanity when a citizen of Russia refuses to speak Russian out of the spite). There are several crime cases against me in Russia, which issued international arrest warrant on my head. That is how I got into Ukraine, and one of the reasons I've changed my name to distance myself from other Russians. Obviously Russians find it insulting, when somebody refuses to carry a Russian name.

WW2 started when USSR began the military buildup proceeding on their plan to conquer Europe. Additionally helping the destruction of Weimar Germany. I.e. long before the actual war. And WW2 is just a follow up to the WW1, which too began not without a Russian help. Without WW1 there would have never been Hitler, who was literally created by that war, or the USSR, too the product of WW1. So everything can be tracked back to the Tsar Nicholas, or more precisely to the slavish population of Russian serfs (крепостные крестьяне), who failed to get their freedom and were used as a cannon fodder in a nonsensical war used to entertain the elites playing "The Great Game", as they called it.

My Russian compatriots love blaming others, but they get angry when somebody points at them. It is easy to accuse say Stalin of building the Gulag system and executing millions, but we have to admit it was not Stalin who wrote all these millions of false reports (bribes and reports, usually anonymous, were used to get rid off people standing in the way), and it was not Stalin who did actual executions and guarded the concentration camps. It were the common people, these same serfs, who under the Tsar Nicholas did the WW1. In fact, Russians gained freedom of movement only in 1974. Before that they were attached to the kolhkhoz and factory as a property, and were completely okay with it. Compare to African-Americans, who did multiple revolts against the slavery and mistreatment.

So yeah. I don't want to be a part of Russia and I don't want to speak Russian. They can jail me. They can kill me. But I will still refuse to accept their BS. I refuse to live in the parody of a society they build.

[HT]

That's quite a hardcore yes, but why are you telling us this? It won't help you much if you're in such trouble.

I hope your game goes well, it shows promise.

[NancyGold]

That's quite a hardcore yes, but why are you telling us this? It won't help you much if you're in such trouble.

I hope your game goes well, it shows promise.

Just explaining why the project will likely never gets released.
Maybe somebody could continue its development or reuse some ideas for other XCOM clones.
Since I will likely get around 10 years in prison and unlikely to get out alive.
But I guess it always happens to indie projects led by a single person.