Newbe questions

[KZad Bhat]

You lost me yesterday when you talked about the firing from the hip model. Basically, what you're saying is, the rationale for the current LoS/LoF model is that the soldiers are walking upright with guns at their hips, guns always at their hips, guns only at their hips, and don't do anything to try to move around. Basically . . . they're robots, moving in limited ways because they aren't able to balance if they have to juke a little bit . . . not even enough to raise a weapon into a firing position, which puts it . . . in their line of sight. That, Meridian, is why a few weeks back I'd presented the idea I had about a procedure to resolve the issue. My idea is basically that the soldier is moving around within that cube instead of standing in one place.

At least now I know what the issue is. You wanted to make it work just like vanilla, and don't want to work out a way to configure two systems. Fine. But I hope you're prepared to have people think you're kind of dumb because you then keep saying . . . there is no issue. Or I think more accurately, the only issue is that X-Com soldiers/agents or futuristic orc pirates all act like '80s action movie icons . . . nevermind if they'd tried crap like in those movies in real life they'd all be dead within 10 seconds, killed by some jackass with bare or no training in combat and tactics because they just stand out in the middle of the field with the machine gun at their hip, thinking they can take out everybody 360 degrees around them.

[Rince Wind]

And then someone else comes around and complains that miniguns don't fire from the hip anymore...

I get that this is a bit annoying, especially for rocket launchers and similar stuff that is clearly carried on the shoulders, but all in all I think it is a pretty cool feature for a 25 year old game. And it is pretty clearly a feature and not a bug, otherwise why implement 2 points of origin at all? And once you know about it really stops being an issue, because you can work with/around it. Carry a minigun and blast away the cover as well as the guy behind it. (solution not guaranteed to work under all circumstances)

All those complaining and especially calling the devs "kind of dumb" (yeah, it was formulated so that they would feel so themselves, but this is what I took away from that post) should accept that this is not something someone wants to use their free time on at the moment. The point was raised, it has been explained why it is like this and will probably stay like this. No need to be an asshole about it then.

[Solarius Scorch]

Don't treat me like I am an idiot, I don't like this.

Well aren't we a little touchy princess.
You asked a question, I answered. Maybe I misunderstood your question, but don't attribute to me that I'm treating you like an idiot, since it was a perfectly fine and normal question which was likely to appear.


Regarding all this discussion: I really think you're going to far, pushing devs around and trying to manage this project. They're nice people, but someone should issue a fair warning: calm down, this is not cool.
For a record: I would also prefer at least for the aimed shots to be fired from the eye level (snaps and autos should remain as they are). But even though I'm a Commander, a moderator here, and the author of two very successful mods, I am not trying to force this change. See what I mean?

[Vansi]

And it is pretty clearly a feature and not a bug, otherwise why implement 2 points of origin at all?

I think that you are wrong, and this is bug. It is simply more realistic and probable explanation. UFO is a rushed game, that had to be published before end of fiscal year or be cancelled. You encounter bug, soldiers see enemies, but can't shoot them. It is game breaking bug. You find what to do to live with it, but you don't have time to search the code, fix it and test it. So you add "no line of fire" because that all you can do. It is 1994, there is no such thing like post launch patch. And TERROR was made by someone else with as minimum effort as possible.

All those complaining and especially calling the devs "kind of dumb" (yeah, it was formulated so that they would feel so themselves, but this is what I took away from that post)

That is very serius accusation. Could you provide example, please? 

Regarding all this discussion: I really think you're going to far, pushing devs around and trying to manage this project. They're nice people, but someone should issue a fair warning: calm down, this is not cool.

I can't force anybody to do anything. You all, as a devs/modders gonna do whatever you like. I, as a target audience of Open Xcom project on the one side I am grateful for all the changes and improvements. But on the other side I am pissed off, that quarter century old bug is still around and some even defend it with explanations on the level of 5 yo kid.

And you must be aware that no change for better ever occured without pushing, criticising and questioning status quo.   


                   

[Alex_D]

On topic of the coordinator. What happened to the custom sprite for the coordinator? I can't find the mod-option to turn the sprite into a sassy lady anymore :/

I suppose it's my fault as I haven't updated the mod since a long time ago. I just started a new campaign after a very long hiatus.

You are welcomed to update the .rul to match the current stats 

[Rince Wind]

That is very serius accusation. Could you provide example, please? 

The post right above the one you quoted?

[Vansi]

Quote, please.

[Meridian]

Quote, please.

Top post on this page, second paragraph, fourth sentence, words 11-13.

---

Anyway, I've been called dumb by dozens of people here... I don't know, OpenXcom just seems to attract that kind of people. I assume SupSuper and Warboy could tell the same story, just the number would probably be even higher. I forgive all of you (well, except two specific individuals, which I won't name).

As for the discussion from today, I looked at it very briefly, and I'll just say a few words:
- LOF mechanics are very complicated... let me repeat that... VERY complicated
- it is not possible to describe LOF mechanics in a few plain English sentences... not because I think you're stupid... just because it is complicated... it would take several A4 pages full of dense text, formulas and algorithms... I don't have 1-2 days to create such a document... and even if I had, I would spend it hiking in the mountains, swimming in the lake or coding a new feature
- I can't prove this to you... you can either believe me, or study the code yourself
- because of this, people tend to find reasons like "firing from the hip" and other nonsense, which they use to explain why something works some way, without knowing how it actually works
- it is true that so-called "origin voxel" is different for LOS and LOF... but it's only a tiny part of the whole difference between the two
- if you must know... origin voxel for LOS is "eye level" approximated by 1 voxel below the top of the head, origin voxel for LOF is "shoulder level" approximated in most cases by 3 or 4 voxels below the top of the head... for comparison, hip would be approximated by about 10 voxels below the top of the head
- so no one is shooting from hip level, you can all sleep well today, universe is not falling apart

Have a nice evening everyone.

[Zippicus]

Cool info.  That makes a little more sense out of why LOS can seem wonky sometimes.   

But the universe could still be falling apart too 

[Drasizard]

Is there a way to check what your current score is without waiting till the end of the month? I don't want to take every mission but just enough to get me by when too many of my Gals are injured.

[wolfreal]

You can make a estimation with the graph menu. 

[doctor medic]

Im a bit suprised how people got that upset about the whole firing from the hip thing,didnt expect things to get so heated.

[Labraid]

Not counting mental disorders, the main culprit behind such behavior is, in my opinion, modern game design.
I can understand how, for someone used to dumbed down, or streamlined if you will, games such "black magic" logic behind LOF might seem unacceptable. For an old timer like me it is just another quirk that games of old used to have plenty of.

[Shrugger]

People generally seem to go into extreme opinions pretty readily. Maybe that's a symptom of having so many games to choose from that you can consider every little detail a deal-breaker and still end up with enough other games to try.

[LytaRyta]

When, in which year.s, was OXCe written ?

( ..and why the dev.s didnt include support of any higher res, alrdy in that ~years.. ??