[TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.62)

[Unmadesoldier]

Female mutants? If it's possible It would be interesting to see them.

[Alazar]

Abyssian USOs keep spawning after Ceasefire was signed, bases are gone though. I figured its probably to get their stuff, but it goes against logic. We have a coop ceasefire signed, we have traded tech yet we still can attack em onesided. I suggest removal of abyssian USOs after the ceasefire research and add their weapons after tech exchange research, to the craft under, "Trade" option, currency will be Zrbite or aquaplastics or both, since they rely on it, to sustain their reserves.

[Nord]

Abyssian USOs keep spawning after Ceasefire was signed, bases are gone though. I figured its probably to get their stuff, but it goes against logic. We have a coop ceasefire signed, we have traded tech yet we still can attack em onesided. I suggest removal of abyssian USOs after the ceasefire research and add their weapons after tech exchange research, to the craft under, "Trade" option, currency will be Zrbite or aquaplastics or both, since they rely on it, to sustain their reserves.

Active missions will continue till the end. New missions begins with the beginning of next month, so then jellymen will leave.

[MasterBLB]

<Attention, this may contain spoilers. Feedback is related to version 2.36>

Great mod Nord, perhaps greatest of all I've played. The World of Terrifying Silence is so interesting and fresh I felt like I was playing Terror from the Deep 20 years ago.
Many new tech to research, new alien races to face, new interesting mission types, and some usage for stuff like implanters, cloning devices, learning arrays enriches TFTD to just another level of fun, never known before. I also like very much that Plastics Armor finally feels useful - while against shard and sonic weapons it gives a notable chance of survival it absolutely shines during fights with Church of Sirius cultists.
And on top of it, extremely smooth and easy installation, I wish all other game mods were made such way.
I can't stop playing the mod. I just can't...that urge to play another turn I thought it was lost during these modern, shiny, but soulless games.
I play at Genius difficulty level, and so far I'm on 5th November 2038.

However, there is a room to improve things a bit in next releases:
1) A text file manual with new key shortcuts(found some in UFOpedia, but not all) and description of new, unknown in vanila TFTD stuff would be most welcome; it could also contain some hints for newcomers about ex. what to research at the very begging, to what pay attention etc.
2) Surface/Laser/Other Weapon Acquisition, as well as researching all these AKM, revolver, flamethrower is just a nonsense. XCOM, a military organization does not have access to military stuff? Senseless.
3) Imprecise armor data in UFOPedia - there is 50 for Xarquid, but 55 in battle according to MC Read (Genius difficulty level). Same for Carcharodons, 30 UFOPedia and 35 in battle. Would be nice if these were consistent.
4) 280 Aqua Plastics required to build a Poseidon craft seems too much, especially in early game, and assuming you've moved Aqua Plastics fabrication much further into research tree. Though I admit it was fun to save and gather every bit of plastic from UFOs and dissections ;)
5) Speaking about Poseidon, or any other transport sub I suppose(got Triton and Poseidon so far), I miss functionality known from Xenonaut which allowed to manually organize soldiers inside a transporter. Currently I have 14 aquanauts and 3 scout drones, and I wish the drones be not at the front row, but next to doors.
6) Sub Cormorant could at least have possibility to equip 2 cannons, as it'll be our base interceptor till research of Barracuda, and it does not have torpedo slots.
7) Path to research Barracuda is so weird and unobvious I had to ask for help in your thread as I couldn't find it on my own - there should be connection in tech tree viewer between Church Data Bank and S.O.R.E.S.O Crash Site.
8) Scout drones are destroyed too easily, they could get a chance to dodge, and reduced the range of detection by enemies.
9) About scout drones, they have completely unfitting them sounds, especially underwater Shrimp Light Drone.
10) Vibro Blade requires a lot research time, seems too much a bit.
11) Speaking about research time, why use that weird #=- instead of days, hours and minutes?
12) Melee attacks costs too much - for example Gauss Rifle hit requires same amount of TUs like an auto shot. I remember I didn't use Heavy Thermic Lance in vanila TFTD due to attack cost 16 TUs, in your mod Nord simple Thermal Taser requires 28 TUs used by 80 TU aquanaut. Definitely too high.
13) Sometimes mission info button does not describes difficulty level correctly. For example I got a mission to raid some Alien Barge, it was said it'll be medium difficulty level. Inside I've faced 40 Aquatoids and around 8-10 Hallucinoids, and of course I was MC'ed into obliteration. Really medium difficulty, dammit...;P
14) Alien interceptors attacking my subs have too high DPS and range, which makes all other than Squall torpedoes practically useless for Barracudas. Only Squall have a chance to be fired and deal damage to enemy before our sub will go down.
15) Squall Missiles are also potent enough during interception missions. I feel no need to use newer Dolphins and Jonny Deafs; haven't researched Kraken Torpedoes yet.
16) While it is understandable that better craft weapons like Aquaplastic Cannon and Dolphin Torpedo Launcher require precious at early stages Aqua Plastics to manufacture a necessity to use Aqua Plastics to fabricate ammo for them is a waste of short supplies of that material, especially when we're collecting the plastics for Poseidon.
17) Check which of our aquanauts got experience already, except messagebox with names could use also similar arrows whose are used by Particle Disturbance Sensor, just maybe in different color, shown till an aquanaut is selected. Shouldn't be too hard to implement.
18) "Locust" is not the best name assuming they are the same creatures as Mind Worms. "Mind Swarm" perhaps?
19) Gauss technology issue - while I get the idea behind the change, and I like it, in practice it creates a problem. Because all Gauss weaponry need Magnetic Navigation to manufacture building anything other than final weapons makes no sense. So I skipped Gauss pistols and went straight to Gauss Rifles because I had just 8 Magnetic Navigations while 14 total was needed, and also because power of the Gauss Pistol is not a significant upgrade compared to X-Rifle, Laser Rifle and Jet Harpoon with Supercavitating ammo. Also, requirement to separately research base clip for them is dumb. I also had issues what to do to finally get Gauss Tech, finally I was forced to use tech tree viewer. Btw, I like very much other types of Gauss weapons, like Autocannon and Sniper.
20) Shard Weapons and Sonic Weapons seems to lie too closely each other - right now I can choose between researching Shard Pistol/Pistol which is in fact rifle/Cannon, and Sonic Technology, then pistols, rifles and cannons. Either Shard Weapons should be available earlier, or Sonic Tech hidden deeper.
21) Not sure is it'll appear later in the game, but some kind of lab facility to enchant genetically our aquanauts, based on alien cloning and such kind of stuff would be most welcome; what it'd do is to add say +25 value for a statistic other than MC-related.
22) There is an issue with not enough space in bases for facilities. Because research labs are nerfed to accommodate just 25 scientists so you need to build 3-4 instead of 2-3, all alien stuff which in base TFTD was used only to sell now is needed for something which requires A WAY MORE general stores than before, and also many new facilities has been added base grid is simply no longer big enough to accommodate everything. My suggestion is to add floors 2nd and 3rd to our bases - alien bases can have 4 floor colonies, so why can't ours have? That'd require some overhaul for existing facilities perhaps, as some of them have to be built on top floor only, like pens and sonars. Or just expand the base grid by 1-2 rows and columns.
Btw, what about possibility to move facility instantly? I've found a shortcut CTRL+left click on a facility to move it, but it does not work.

Some bugs:
1) Vibro Blade after being researched can't be produced; the description Vibro Blade(i) in tech tree view suggest it can be purchased, but aside it does not make any sense it doesn't appear on purchase list as well. This applies also to Thermic Lance and Heavy Thermic Lance I suppose, as these have same designation (i).
2) I had an attack on underwater laboratory run by enhanced Aquatoids, 2 stages mission - 1st stage was on shore, 2nd one went underwater. During underwater part I could still use surface equipment, like stun grenades.
3) I got Hallucinoid Autopsy from Aqatoid Medic, UFOPedia entry about it was created, and it triggered Thermal Taser research. Later on I got Hallucinoid corpse from a mission, and Hallucinoid Autopsy was listed on possible projects to research.

Some OH FUCK moments, when I was surprised by the game. It was fun :)
1) Meeting Xarquids very early in the game. I had just ADS guns at that time, so I hadn't expected any results - and rightly, I couldn't even scratch them, so I was forced to abandon the mission, and rush research of Jet Harpoon + SC ammo assuming 48 piercing damage will be enough. Well, the next encounter was as much painful as the 1st one, but this time I had MC Reader and I discovered the Xarquids should be prone to grenade attacks. And in fact two simple magna grenades beneath the creature was enough to kill it.
2) Assault on Church of Sirius temple. X-Rifles wonderfully kills cultists, everything goes as smoothly as possible, and suddenly HE appears. A Paladin of Church. He seems wearing an Aquaplastic Armor...damn, I sense a trouble here. And in fact, I'm not doing anything to him; luckily, I had few Laser Rifles in ship. These deal just 35 damage, but negate half of armor, let's try them...voila, it worked!
3) Terror in Tokio. I've met these cute Carcharodons for the first time. As usual I took X-Rifles for surface mission, but I see these are not much potent against the sharks. But having in mind experience from church raid I've took Laser Rifles as backup weapons for everyone. A quick rearm during mission and damage started to be dealt, however sharkoids provided to be pretty tough, and required 2-3 solid hit to be killed. Also, they was so fierce enemies I managed to save just one civilian out of 12. Btw, that bite animation us just awesome :)
4) Terror on an island. 1st OF FUCK moment - what the hell is that, a terrestrial Tentaculant?! Err no, some Mind Worm; but that also sounds very dangerous! Oh Lord, it looks so gross! But it is weak, just one, sometimes two shoots from X-Rifle are enough to kill it. Other enemy types seemed less dangerous, some Locusts and Worm Zombies. Okkay, seems the mission is doable, so I'm passing the turn and..,OH FUCK, OH FUUCK OH FUUUUCK!!! Half of my squad lies unconscious. Well, I have medikits, so I will wake them up...OH FUCK again, a whole dose is barely enough to wake one aquanaut o.O During next enemy turn they lie again, and the rest has panicked.
Well, mission reload and change of tactics then.
This time I This time I aggressively jumped out Triton, and started to search for Mind Worms to kill as much of them as possible before their turn. At that time I didn't know (as name doesn't suggested) that Locusts also have psionic powers, so I ignored them. Well, it's hard, but keeping balance between waking up lying soldiers and sprints for searching Mind Worms I managed to accomplish the mission.

I hope you'll find the feedback valuable, especially the part about base size. If you like I'll provide next part as I'll advance into the game.

[Amoebka]

I think ufopedia always lists base stats (for veteran difficulty), genius increases them a bit.

Nord, out of curiosity, what's the intended/expected length of a playthrough? I'm 13 months in and basically feel like I have everything to dispatch to T'leth, yet I still have no access to a lot of tech, have never seen jellies and aliens haven't even upgraded to ion weapons yet. Is this normal?

[Amoebka]

Damn, I didn't know countries can renounce alien pacts in OXCE. This is incredibly cool. Does it happen because of the high score or because I destroyed a colony in their waters?

[CaptainMagicono]

Likely because you destroyed a colony in their waters. I think my highest score in one month was like 12K and none of the countries came back to funding me that were already gone.

[Nord]

<Attention, this may contain spoilers. Feedback is related to version 2.36>

Oh.
1. Maybe. But i need someone to write them in english.
2. If you read ufopedia, you will know that XCOM was near full shutdown and now operates as third-class agency. So they need to do tons of bureacracy.
3. These numbers displayed automatically with game engine.
4. This is done right for that. Because normal game ends with tons of unused aquaplastics.
5. Engine limitations.
6. If cormorant will be a thing, then what barracuda needed for?
7. Maybe something to add into ufopedia articles? But what?
8. Nah. They must be one-shot scouts. If you want combat support - use SWS.
9. I'll search for some other sounds then.
10. I'll think about.
11. Engine limitations.
12. Not really understand a question. Most melee attacks use fixed amount of time - so newbie and top leveled soldier will use same amount of TUs. And firearms use percentage.
13. It is very relative description. Do not trust it. :-)
14. Best balance i can done.
15. For bigger ships and shielded fighters they are not effective enough.
16. So you need to chose where to invest your limited resources. I think it is good.
17. Not my part. You can ask Yankes or Meridian for such feature.
18. Google "Sid Meier's Alpha Centaury"
19. Maybe i can change pistol production to 2 pistols per 1 navigation.
20. Shard weapons are done for aliens. They are not too useful for X-COM.So late research is not really a problem.
21. You mean biolab? It is allready there.
22. First report of such problem. Never experienced such thing myself. Hmm...Also facility moving was removed by OXCE authors.

Bugs:
1. Not a bug. No alien weapons can be produced.
2. Engine limitations. :-(
3. Dont mess autopsy and live specimen research. This is vanilla game mechanic.

Thanks for feedback.

[Amoebka]

All melee weapons in your mod seem to use percentage TU costs, actually. Thermal tazers, all alien blades, tridents, vibro knives.

And I have to say that I agree with shard weapons being a bad addition. Armor was never really good in TFTD, your mod nerfs it even further and makes it insanely expensive, and now most aliens have guns that ignore it too. A shitty shard pistol not rarely one/two shots aquanauts in power/mag armor. A single suit of which costs you an entire medium USO.
They also don't sell for good money, so income is severely nerfed with nothing to compensate.
And now you also barely have clips for sonic weapons, which can't be manufactured.

Stockpiling hundreds of guns I can neither use nor sell doesn't feel right to me. There has to be at least some use for them.

[Nord]

All melee weapons in your mod seem to use percentage TU costs, actually. Thermal tazers, all alien blades, tridents, vibro knives.

Indeed. Odd. Need to fix.

And I have to say that I agree with shard weapons being a bad addition. Armor was never really good in TFTD, your mod nerfs it even further and makes it insanely expensive, and now most aliens have guns that ignore it too. A shitty shard pistol not rarely one/two shots aquanauts in power/mag armor. A single suit of which costs you an entire medium USO.
They also don't sell for good money, so income is severely nerfed with nothing to compensate.
And now you also barely have clips for sonic weapons, which can't be manufactured.

Maybe balancing case. Need to think about.

Stockpiling hundreds of guns I can neither use nor sell doesn't feel right to me. There has to be at least some use for them.

Why do you can not sell them?

[Amoebka]

What's even the point of selling when they are worth 20k? That's basically nothing even in the early game.

[MasterBLB]

1. Maybe. But i need someone to write them in english.

Well, at the beginning all shortcuts should be enough.

2. If you read ufopedia, you will know that XCOM was near full shutdown and now operates as third-class agency. So they need to do tons of bureacracy.

That's true, but is Terror from the Deep a game about bureaucracy? Would I'd like to play such game I'd install "Papers, please!" rather.

3. These numbers displayed automatically with game engine.

So these can't be made accurate to what is really seen in battle? A pity.

4. This is done right for that. Because normal game ends with tons of unused aquaplastics.

While I was preparing the feedback I was at early stage of the game, where enemy UFOs were pretty rare, and there were only mission like "Suspicious activity" and "Church pirates raid" available. Now, as the time progressed I have reserve around 1000 of Aquaplastics. Point no longer valid.

5. Engine limitations.

Oh that's sad Such feature would be most useful.

6. If cormorant will be a thing, then what barracuda needed for?

With 2 cannon slots Cormorant will be better at putting down small/maybe medium UFOs, whose now usually run away after few shots taken. Barracuda, which has 2 torpedo slots and 1 cannon slot still will be better, especially to fight those annoying enemy interceptors. But path to research Barracuda is not short, we need something till then.

7. Maybe something to add into ufopedia articles? But what?

Well, it should be enough to add links in the tech viewer like:
Church Data Bank -> now it is only "Affects game progression", it could be mentioned here "SORESO Crash Site", from which there is link to Khimtar Black Box, and then Barracuda.

8. Nah. They must be one-shot scouts. If you want combat support - use SWS.

Nono, I didn't expressed myself precisely. It's perfectly fine they are one-shooted, I meant these should be harder to spot, and harder to hit.

12. Not really understand a question. Most melee attacks use fixed amount of time - so newbie and top leveled soldier will use same amount of TUs. And firearms use percentage.

Well, that probably was your goal, but something went wrong, as  Amoebka rightly says.

14. Best balance i can done.
15. For bigger ships and shielded fighters they are not effective enough.
16. So you need to chose where to invest your limited resources. I think it is good.

Hmmm...assuming Dolphins require Aquaplastic both for launcher and ammo maybe it should have its range increased to something like Squall? It'd make usage of these worthwhile.
But still I think ammo for Aquaplastic Cannon should be the same as ordinary Gas Cannon.

17. Not my part. You can ask Yankes or Meridian for such feature.

What would be the best way to contact them, via PMs or some kind of feedback thread?

18. Google "Sid Meier's Alpha Centaury"

Found it Nice, I suppose these was inspiration?

19. Maybe i can change pistol production to 2 pistols per 1 navigation.

Hmmmm, I'm afraid it still won't be enough :/ Magnetic Navigations are very hard to acquire at the early game, and every one piece counts. I think you can safely drop requirement of 1 Mag Nav for Gauss Pistols, as these have only 55 power, more or less similar level to what Hydrojet Cannon and Jet Harpoon + SC Ammo offers. This way it'd make sense to manufacture them before getting later Gauss weapons.

20. Shard weapons are done for aliens. They are not too useful for X-COM.So late research is not really a problem.

What do you mean by 'Shard weapons are not too useful for XCOM'??

21. You mean biolab? It is allready there.

Well, if biolab allows to put aquanauts into a treatment to say increase TU/whatever by some amount then yepp, I meant Biolab.

22. First report of such problem. Never experienced such thing myself. Hmm...Also facility moving was removed by OXCE authors.

Well, now as it turned out I won't be able to manufacture sonic weapons and clips the issue becomes even bigger, as selling all that alien stuff should be avoided. Technically speaking, how hard it'd be to add another floor to current grid? Even one extra would help immensely.

Bugs:

3. Dont mess autopsy and live specimen research. This is vanilla game mechanic.

I'm not messing. The medic gave me dead Hallucinoid Autopsy. Then, after killing another Hallucinoid in mission I have "Hallucinoid Corpse" on possible research list. Looks like some kind of flag has not beet set.

[Nord]

Well, at the beginning all shortcuts should be enough.

Dont understand, sorry. Explain please.

With 2 cannon slots Cormorant will be better at putting down small/maybe medium UFOs, whose now usually run away after few shots taken.

Hmm. Maybe.

Well, it should be enough to add links in the tech viewer like:
Church Data Bank -> now it is only "Affects game progression", it could be mentioned here "SORESO Crash Site", from which there is link to Khimtar Black Box, and then Barracuda.

No, these links created automatically. But i will think what i can do.

What would be the best way to contact them, via PMs or some kind of feedback thread?

You can create new topic in OXCE section of forum with "[Suggestion]" in its name.

Technically speaking, how hard it'd be to add another floor to current grid? Even one extra would help immensely.

In the base defense map? possible, but why? In the basescape - nearly impossible.

Bugs:I'm not messing. The medic gave me dead Hallucinoid Autopsy. Then, after killing another Hallucinoid in mission I have "Hallucinoid Corpse" on possible research list. Looks like some kind of flag has not beet set.

Oh, my bad. I mean corpse research and autopsy. It is two separate topics, but researching corpse gives you autopsy (like overview) and maybe something more. And medic can give you only autopsy.

What's even the point of selling when they are worth 20k? That's basically nothing even in the early game.

Ok, understand.

Also i think about change shards from piercing armor to damaging armor. What do you think?

[misterx]

Also i think about change shards from piercing armor to damaging armor. What do you think?

Yes, but also with a limited pirecing capacity less than sonic? The sonics are menat to be an upgrade of the shard, i think

@Nord: how about the secon ship here? Might be used by human pirates?

[MasterBLB]

Dont understand, sorry. Explain please.

I mean all what is mentioned in UFOPedia + OXCE shortcuts, like CTRL + E, CTRL + H. Personally I haven't discovered a shortcut for searching stuff in lists (research, manufacture), but I see on youtube videos such shortcut exists.

the base defense map? possible, but why? In the basescape - nearly impossible.

I meant in the basescape. Crap :/
Maybe it's possible to extend the basescape a bit, say 2 rows + 2 columns? Or in case of issue with rows just columns?

###########################################################################################
BUG - invisible holes in medium UFO
1st, move Seul-ki Janggok around point 38,14,0 and watch a reaction shot from inside the UFO.
2nd, end the turn and see Jules Kayowa at 35,25,0 is killed. You can rotate him clockwise to spot a Naga.