Author Topic: A thread for little questions  (Read 1374862 times)

Offline Dispector

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4080 on: December 21, 2024, 03:43:23 pm »
Makes sense but seems kinda overtuned. Being able to share vision — reasonable. Knowing where I was on a unit who died without seeing me — much less reasonable. Staying spotted for more than one turn/even if you move — absolutely stupid.

Do they get full accuracy shots as if they can actually see to the tile? Or do they take the inaccurate shots that I take when I do sniper/spotter tactics?

It would be a lot cooler either 1) used the information to try and get actual vision rather than firing from across the map 2) they shoot/throw grenades squares in a 5x5 area where I took the shot from rather than the exact spot, and don’t get to follow me if I move.

That adds back counter play where, ideal is if a Gal has enough TU, you can take a shot on a turn and move away from that spot (which snipers/grenade throwers are going to have trouble with due to high TU costs, unless they are super size).

In that state I think it would be cool for all enemies to have the mechanic.

In either case, I don’t like that they know where I go when I move, and on subsequent turns. That sucks, right? Obviously coding this stuff is non-trivial or even impossible, in concept at least it could be improved.

As far as I understand, the spotter mechanic simply puts a flag on your unit in question that makes it targettable for all the Sniper enemies for a certain number of turns. They seem to be having an accuracy penalty if they can't see the unit, but it doesn't matter much when there are enough of them (of if they are throwing grenades or shooting RPGs). Worst case scenario, if the enemy who has spotted your unit was an Expert (or Master, I dont' quite remember) Spotter, the position of this unit is revealed to all enemy Snipers for the rest of the fight.

I get it that this mechanic is supposed to make the game more challenging, but I dunno. I don't mind when the difficulty is increased by pitting you against overpowered enemies from time to time, or limiting the number of soldiers you can take to a mission, or your equipment selection, or having you to fight an entire horde of enemies without warning, but Sniper/Spotter mechanic is just one things that... I wouldn't use as strong an expression as "ruins this game for me", but rather "greatly decreases my enjoyment". As soon as I start meeting Sniper/Spotter enemies, I stop thinking about tactics in general and start thinking in gamey terms. "Well, I have to make sure all my units end the turn under a roof so that they are not hit by grenades, and there should be solid walls between them and the direction in which I suppose the enemy can be". The moment any of my units remain in the (relative) open by the end of the turn, all the enemies from half a map away start shooting and throwing grenades at their exact position. Trying to prevent it makes battles exceedingly long and tedious.

It is the difference between giving the AI a reasonable (numerical, qualitative, positional) advantage on the one hand, and playing out the "Computer is a cheating bastard" trope. While I like (or can rationalize for myself) almost everything else in X-Piratez, the Sniper/Spotter mechanic is the one thing that makes me want to drop the game every time I start encountering it en masse.

Offline greattuna

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4081 on: December 21, 2024, 11:13:39 pm »
As far as I understand, the spotter mechanic simply puts a flag on your unit in question that makes it targettable for all the Sniper enemies for a certain number of turns. They seem to be having an accuracy penalty if they can't see the unit, but it doesn't matter much when there are enough of them (of if they are throwing grenades or shooting RPGs).

That's correct, though any given sniper only has a percentage chance to act on that information depending on how good they're at sniping. And yes, they have the same no-LoS penalties and limitations as your units, including throwing accuracy.

And it was, pretty much, the answer to your own ability to shoot enemies outside of your LoS, as well as a counter to camouflage and invisibility - before sniper/spotter, a dark spot and a bunch of flares was all you needed to make dealing with enemies almost trivial. It's kind of a necessary evil, but I agree that it can get really heavy-handed and annoying sometimes; the worst part for me personally is the spotter tagging anyone who hit them.

Offline Vakrug

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4082 on: December 22, 2024, 10:56:32 am »
Already wrote several times, but I will repeat: main problem with Sniper/Spotter mechanics is it's couterintuitiveness. AI is essentially doing something that player cannot, that is seeing opponent's units without actually seeing them. If AI would use only Shared Vision like player do, that would be perfectly fine. To make things worse, mods, where Sniper/Spotter mechanics is "documented" in ufopedia, are doing that so poorly and oversimplify, that it only increases confusion.

If AI is so stupid that cannot live without such cheating, I would wish 2 things:
- Player also should be able to use Sniper/Spotter mechanics. Maybe only the most trained soldiers should be capable of spotting on receiving a bullet, but that would give a glimpse of what AI is capable of.
- "Silent weapons", that does not trigger spotting. The best candidate for them would be bows and throwing knives.

Sadly, current state of the game is "there is no stealth in this game".

Offline Jaedar

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4083 on: December 22, 2024, 04:36:27 pm »
Already wrote several times, but I will repeat: main problem with Sniper/Spotter mechanics is it's couterintuitiveness. AI is essentially doing something that player cannot, that is seeing opponent's units without actually seeing them. If AI would use only Shared Vision like player do, that would be perfectly fine. To make things worse, mods, where Sniper/Spotter mechanics is "documented" in ufopedia, are doing that so poorly and oversimplify, that it only increases confusion.

If AI is so stupid that cannot live without such cheating, I would wish 2 things:
- Player also should be able to use Sniper/Spotter mechanics. Maybe only the most trained soldiers should be capable of spotting on receiving a bullet, but that would give a glimpse of what AI is capable of.
- "Silent weapons", that does not trigger spotting. The best candidate for them would be bows and throwing knives.

Sadly, current state of the game is "there is no stealth in this game".
There is stealth, just not against all enemies. Even against factions which all have sniper/spotter, their accuracy is still halved compared to if they actually see you.

But I do kind of agree that this is not sufficient to make stealth a workable strategy in many missions.

Offline p0n3swag

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4084 on: December 23, 2024, 02:16:34 am »
Ok what's the best end game ship/weapon loadouts?  I'm having trouble with large shielded ships and what not. They're not landing and I'm not bringing them down.

Offline eharper256

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4085 on: December 23, 2024, 05:39:55 pm »
Ok what's the best end game ship/weapon loadouts?  I'm having trouble with large shielded ships and what not. They're not landing and I'm not bringing them down.
Are you dual-intercepting? Or even better, triple-intercepting? Big ships need you to intercept with multiple craft at once, ideally (get faster ships to escort the slower ones).

Going by pure power that's not insanely expensive, a Brave Whaler with Triple Medusa's IMHO, 24 tic reload with 250 damage on shields usually blows through them quick (sometimes to the point of wasting a barrage, drop to cautious if you think this will happen). Though it's a bit pricey and slow to keep up missile production (Laser Lenses can be a bottleneck sometimes), so use a lighter interceptor set for lesser targets, and keep your Whalers for big angry targets. A pair of Predators is often sufficient for many lesser targets.

Plasma Beams are much more economical of course, but a Kraken with 3 Plasma Beams (not Spitters) or Obliterators can't keep up with some ships.

Alternatively, Barracudas with quad Gauss Cannons or Bulldogs, though they need to have your best (ideally Gnome) pilots since they need to get into knife-fighting distance quickly. Very strong shields will also ignore their barrages (you'd probably need Tesla Cannons if you insisted on knife-fighting those).

I think some people swear by Naval Guns, but I've not tried those.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2024, 06:00:45 pm by eharper256 »

Offline Buck

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4086 on: December 23, 2024, 06:36:26 pm »
How do I go about acquiring craft and craft weapons to start shooting down ships and bandit convoys? I'm already in June and am still forced to use the Airbus. I can't seem to get my rank to the appropriate level to unlock the Car Thieves and bounty-hunting techs, either.

Online shinr

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4087 on: December 23, 2024, 07:41:40 pm »
How do I go about acquiring craft and craft weapons to start shooting down ships and bandit convoys? I'm already in June and am still forced to use the Airbus. I can't seem to get my rank to the appropriate level to unlock the Car Thieves and bounty-hunting techs, either.

Research these:

Visit Nearby Town
Gun Shopping
Hardware Shopping
Craft Weapons
Inspect Machinery
Explore Tunnels
Call A Meeting
Pirate Style
Our Culture
Weirdness
We Need Craft Weapons!
Contacts: Tiger Transports
V8
Big Bird

Which will give you access to this research:

Assembling the Bird

Which when researched will give you an ability to manufacture the Little Bird.

You'll also want to research The Pharmacist before hand so that you can buy the Chemicals both to built the Bird and give it fuel.

Offline Buck

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4088 on: December 23, 2024, 08:09:30 pm »
Research these:

Visit Nearby Town
Gun Shopping
Hardware Shopping
Craft Weapons
Inspect Machinery
Explore Tunnels
Call A Meeting
Pirate Style
Our Culture
Weirdness
We Need Craft Weapons!
Contacts: Tiger Transports
V8
Big Bird :D

Which will give you access to this research:

Assembling the Bird

Which when researched will give you an ability to manufacture the Little Bird.

You'll also want to research The Pharmacist before hand so that you can buy the Chemicals both to built the Bird and give it fuel.
Appreciate you! I'll give that a shot the next time I play. :D

Offline eharper256

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4089 on: December 23, 2024, 11:01:49 pm »
Appreciate you! I'll give that a shot the next time I play. :D
Incidentally I mention this tech order in my guide as it is quite a priority for nearly all runs. It has lots of handy starting tips. :)

Offline Buck

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4090 on: December 24, 2024, 03:40:57 am »
I'm in May and don't have any aircraft capable of shooting things down yet, but I'm hemorrhaging infamy. What's a good way to reliably improve my score in the early game (trying to get to the rank of ROGUE so I can do bounty hunting and contact the Car Thieves)?

Offline Rokksta

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4091 on: December 24, 2024, 10:23:28 am »
I'm in May and don't have any aircraft capable of shooting things down yet, but I'm hemorrhaging infamy. What's a good way to reliably improve my score in the early game (trying to get to the rank of ROGUE so I can do bounty hunting and contact the Car Thieves)?

You probably don't have enough Brainers. Fill out your Research capacity as fast as possible and resarch also cheap stuff like Melons and often interrogate easy targets like Altar Boys. Don't underestimate how much Infamy (and Infamy bonus) Research gives.

Offline eharper256

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4092 on: December 24, 2024, 11:47:28 am »
I'm in May and don't have any aircraft capable of shooting things down yet, but I'm hemorrhaging infamy. What's a good way to reliably improve my score in the early game (trying to get to the rank of ROGUE so I can do bounty hunting and contact the Car Thieves)?

Also, get that Little Bird in the Air ASAP. Ideally it needs to be in the air by March, or April at the latest, never mind May. No jokes, you REALLY must prioritise interception and the workshop to get Ship Junkyard contacts above all other things to cushion the early loss of infamy. Bounties used to be immediately available and helped a lot but that's no longer the case.

Offline Buck

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4093 on: December 24, 2024, 01:32:48 pm »
You probably don't have enough Brainers. Fill out your Research capacity as fast as possible and resarch also cheap stuff like Melons and often interrogate easy targets like Altar Boys. Don't underestimate how much Infamy (and Infamy bonus) Research gives.
By "interrogate", you mean research with a brainer, right? Or are interrogations a separate game mechanic?

Offline Rokksta

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Re: A thread for little questions
« Reply #4094 on: December 24, 2024, 04:07:48 pm »
By "interrogate", you mean research with a brainer, right? Or are interrogations a separate game mechanic?

Yes, research them with Brainers more then once. Very importent on Hoes and Savvy Girls, because they can give you Shadowmasters, which will make your Early Game easier.