Author Topic: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes  (Read 26634 times)

Offline Starving Poet

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #30 on: August 10, 2016, 06:36:17 am »
Just a quick note, I had my offense formula incorrect - I had a multiplier of 2 in my head because at 100 skill you effectively double your strength.

I edited my post.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #31 on: August 10, 2016, 11:55:08 am »
I mentioned that I was working on a similar Class mod that I eventually abandoned, right? I had a graphical aid for each of the soldiers (in their inventory sprites) to help remind the player which soldier was which class. That graphical aspect was a lot of work, and then real life events got in the way, leading me to abandon the project altogether. I still have most of those graphical aspects, however, and can add them in if you guys want me to.

All I really need to do is fill in any missing vanilla armors for the classes and make new inventory sprites for the soldiers with Psi armor.
That sounds pretty great and will probably go well into the RPG Classes mod! I'll let Kjotleik discuss it with you though.

It makes sense that people are giving his mod more attention than mine. Mine is really just a plugin for a much larger piece I'm working on. It's not really supposed to be a standalone mod.

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2016, 12:19:01 am »
I mentioned that I was working on a similar Class mod that I eventually abandoned, right? I had a graphical aid for each of the soldiers (in their inventory sprites) to help remind the player which soldier was which class. That graphical aspect was a lot of work, and then real life events got in the way, leading me to abandon the project altogether. I still have most of those graphical aspects, however, and can add them in if you guys want me to.

All I really need to do is fill in any missing vanilla armors for the classes and make new inventory sprites for the soldiers with Psi armor.

Hello, RandomCommander.
That would be great. I would like to test such a mod.
If you use the RPG Classes mod as a base, and add the graphics you mentioned, I'll either link to it in the RPG Classes post (post #2 in this thread), or download and attach it to the post itself. Depending on the size of it, I guess. Maybe I can do both.

Would be good if you could re-name it, though. So that we could have two versions of it. Maybe "RGP Classes 2," "RPG Classes A" (for Armour) or RPG Classes Plus....well, you come up with a fitting name that you like. I'd like you to also update the credits file to include yourself (for what you made) and others (if you have used something from others).

I like having alternatives, and "my" mod is currently compatible with Solarius Scorch's FMP 1.9.3c (crosses fingers and hopes for the best, as playtesting is currently limited to starting up a new game and researching Soldier Specialists). I guess an armour-graphics mod would not be, since FMP has many more armours than vanilla.


@Starving Poet
Understood. Correct formulas noted.

Offline Random Commander

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2016, 06:30:38 am »
Hello, RandomCommander.
That would be great. I would like to test such a mod.
If you use the RPG Classes mod as a base, and add the graphics you mentioned, I'll either link to it in the RPG Classes post (post #2 in this thread), or download and attach it to the post itself. Depending on the size of it, I guess. Maybe I can do both.

Would be good if you could re-name it, though. So that we could have two versions of it. Maybe "RGP Classes 2," "RPG Classes A" (for Armour) or RPG Classes Plus....well, you come up with a fitting name that you like. I'd like you to also update the credits file to include yourself (for what you made) and others (if you have used something from others).

I like having alternatives, and "my" mod is currently compatible with Solarius Scorch's FMP 1.9.3c (crosses fingers and hopes for the best, as playtesting is currently limited to starting up a new game and researching Soldier Specialists). I guess an armour-graphics mod would not be, since FMP has many more armours than vanilla.

Kjotleik:

Awesome! I can definitely do that sometime this week!

Oh yeah... FMP... I planned to later have more graphics to make my armor-image class mod to be compatible with FMP as well, since I'm pretty much a big fan of that mod. ;D That is probably going to be a much longer wait, as I have yet to make those images for the classes.

Since you're asking me to use your mod as a base and subsequently re-name it, a part of me is saying "Hey! You should have parts of your abandoned mod added in too!" And by "parts," I mean I had other ideas for other classes (Medic (Passive Ranger), Grenadier (Sniper for Throwables), etc.) and a similar idea for minimum-maximum stat overhauls, making each class more "specialized" with certain strengths and weaknesses. It's kind of like what you did using Reaver's mod as a base, but I'm using your mod as a base instead, and it is a little more drastic. Is that also okay with you?

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2016, 05:23:00 pm »
Is that also okay with you?

Yes. Of course. If you got any bright ideas, feel free to implement them as you see fit.

If you find room for more classes, that could be interesting. The Ranger is the closest thing to a Grenadier in RPG Classes, as it is right now. I too was thinking about a Medic-class, but didn't come up with enough justifications for it.

It seems you're adding a lot, so perhaps even make a new thread for your mod? I can still link to it in the RPG Classes post in this thread, because they would be very related to each other. Options are always a good thing. At least as long as they are different enough.


Sincerely
Kjotleik

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2016, 10:11:14 pm »
I too was thinking about a Medic-class, but didn't come up with enough justifications for it.
The ranger is the main support class. It's good to have medikits on anyone, but a ranger is a good choice as medic because they can move around a lot to get to other soldiers.

Offline Random Commander

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2016, 12:13:32 am »
The ranger is the main support class. It's good to have medikits on anyone, but a ranger is a good choice as medic because they can move around a lot to get to other soldiers.

Reaver:

My mod plans to have "Support" classes branch off from the "Ranger" class. For example: A Medic is able to move the fastest and furthest, but has pretty lame combat skills (low reactions, low accuracy, even low bravery! Hippocratic oath at its finest), so this class leans towards using medkits to their fullest extent, and could also act as a ammo mule or a designated minelayer/support grenade deployer. On the other hand, the Ranger (Or "Scout" as I like to call it) does not move as fast as the Medics, but have good combat capabilities. They are an "offensive support" class, meant to assist other classes by going ahead and marking targets (Motion scanners, anyone?), and reacting quickly when an enemy surprises the group.

It's actually kind of complicated now that I think about it...

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2016, 03:12:27 am »
It's actually kind of complicated now that I think about it...
It seems like a better idea to have only a few total classes, and just have all capabilities available to at least one class. That gives a commander more flexibility in setting up their squad.

Also, think like the US Marine Corps: they don't have anyone on the battlefield who isn't a warfighter. People may have special skills, but everyone carries a rifle and knows how to use it. Since X-Com is a frontline combat unit that works with low numbers of soldiers, it makes sense for them to follow in that style. That's why I gave the ranger a bonus to accuracy and reactions: they don't just run around the field, but they also shoot aliens they come across. And if you run around the field a lot, you're going to find a lot of aliens.

Offline Random Commander

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2016, 04:26:11 am »
Also, think like the US Marine Corps: they don't have anyone on the battlefield who isn't a warfighter.


Fair point. Medics are capable of using guns, they just aren't specialized in mowing down squads of aliens like badasses. They can score a kill or two in desperate situations is all I'm saying. Plus, in XCOM, all soldiers eventually improve their accuracy to great results if they live long enough, so a Colonel Medic can be as effective as a Sergeant Assault, it's just that I would usually have the medic prioritize helping friendly soldiers over killing aliens if such a situation arises.

That's why I gave the ranger a bonus to accuracy and reactions: they don't just run around the field, but they also shoot aliens they come across. And if you run around the field a lot, you're going to find a lot of aliens.

What I have been noticing in my playthroughs is that the aliens tend to 1hit ko your soldiers that are running around long before you spot them, especially since aliens have better accuracy starting out. So Rangers might as well be the rookies that go out first and end up at the business end of a giant plasma stick quicker than the rest of the squad. So in a sense, personal experience has skewed my perceptions of the "Scouting/Support class," though I can and will keep your idea in mind.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2016, 11:23:15 am »
What I have been noticing in my playthroughs is that the aliens tend to 1hit ko your soldiers that are running around long before you spot them,
Most people feel that way, and I sure did for a long time. But with some practice and more than anything understanding the value of reactions, you can greatly alter that. In open and dangerous areas I often use a tank to draw the aliens' fire, but I'll have my rangers run out into some of the safer open areas, such as along walls and fences. Mutual surprise is also very very important. You want to make sure when you're uncovering ground, that your soldier will be able to see any aliens that can see your soldier. You can then use a sniper to shoot them from outside visual range, and they won't be able to reaction fire. Once they're softened up a bit, the ranger can potentially finish them off without fear of reaction fire. When going around corners, I sometimes swing the soldier away from the wall so they can approach the corner diagonally and gain mutual surprise. I'll check the windows before entering the farmhouses, and I'll swing around wide and enter stairwells from an angle that allows the soldier to see up to the second floor. Aliens love to hide at the top of the barn stairwell. In fact it's so common that sometimes I shoot that particular spot from outside.

When going around the most dangerous corners, I use breachers. They're especially useful inside the alien craft, but I can usually explore farmhouses and terror site buildings just fine with rangers.

Another thing to think about is weapons. Snipers may actually do well with pistols, as they can make multiple aimed shots or several snap shots. If you can position your snipers to shoot from beyond visual range, then they can safely injure aliens without taking reaction fire. Snipers can also do well with heavy weapons--one well-placed aimed shot can easily be all you need. It varies a lot by what you're fighting.

I have semi-auto and full auto weapons of every kind in my GWeapons mod. I like to give my rangers semi-auto weapons because those have good snap shots, and I prefer full-auto for the breachers because ideally they'll be close enough that accuracy won't be much of a factor. But I may use the semi-auto rifles because they have a (not so accurate) burst-fire mode, and I haven't done it yet but I'm thinking of using pistols. When entering a medium scout, the soldier may face 3-4 aliens at once. With enough reactions and almost full time units, they may be able to make a shot with a pistol without incurring any or much reaction fire.

Smoke can also play a role. I almost never use it because I'm lazy, but you can use it to get around corners. It can be a tool to enable you to approach the aliens head-on as you exit the smoke, it an environment where you could not have. It's also good for masking your exit from the Skyranger, so your soldiers have time to spread out before they take a blaster. Especially useful with the Bloodthirsty A.I. mod that Meridian made.

Health plays a role even early on. Plasma pistol shots seem to kill unarmored soldiers in one shot most of the time, but a soldier with high starting health actually has a good chance of surviving a plasma pistol shot.



-----------------------------------------

Announcement: I made a major update to Reaver's Soldier Classes, edit and download are available on the first post.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2016, 12:10:45 pm by The Reaver of Darkness »

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #40 on: August 12, 2016, 11:03:10 pm »
Major update version 1.1:
Items related to this update (including Ethereal Corpse) have had their sell values adjusted to reflect production costs or other things.


...580 100 United States Dollars for selling one Psionic Amplifier?   ;D
I know it requires an Ethereal Corpse to manufacture, but still... you'd have to USE it on potential buyers just to get them interested in paying for one...  ::)

But to be serious: Interesting changes. I'll look into it a bit more once I'm done moving into my new apartment next weekend. Or thereabout.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2016, 04:26:01 am »
In real life, you could get far more for these priceless alien artifacts. A mind control device could sell for over a hundred million I bet.

I calculated the sell values using an algorithm I have on a spreadsheet which takes into account the item cost, workshop space, and worker hours as factors to increase the per-engineer-hour profit above costs, and I'm using $30/hour as a baseline. I then add extra profit for using items in its cost, above their sell value. So the big bucks are made by using up supplies, especially nonrenewable supplies. I then adjust the final number a bit to look more like an X-Com sell value, and in some cases I increase or reduce it. For instance, ammo always has a reduced sell price, meaning you can't make good money producing ammo. Eventually I'll add military aircraft that take a ton of space, startup cost, and time to build and consume lots of items, but give bigger profits than anything else. As it stands, the largest profit margins are similar to vanilla Laser Cannons, but are far more difficult to sustain in production. It seems much more reasonable this way.

Offline cpablo

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2016, 05:53:28 am »
I cant use any mod what create soldiers'class. The mods seems to work but in the hire/buy menu, the new classes dont show. Even when a mod change the basic class name, it just show 1 class and the others are missing.

Offline MFive

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2016, 06:31:21 am »
I'm using $30/hour as a baseline.

according to the Ufopedia, engineers have an hourly wage of $35/hour

LINK: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Manufacturing_Profitability

Offline Kjotleik

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Re: [SOLDIERS] Two Mods: Reaver's Soldier Classes https:// RPG Classes
« Reply #44 on: August 23, 2016, 02:31:11 am »
I cant use any mod what create soldiers'class. The mods seems to work but in the hire/buy menu, the new classes dont show. Even when a mod change the basic class name, it just show 1 class and the others are missing.

Hello, cpablo.

I presume you've tried both mods in this thread. And that you've unzipped them into the correct folder (C:\Users\[yourusername]\Documents\OpenXCom\mods).

Then it should work as intended whenever you start a new game (and have one of them turned on). What nightly-version are you using? Maybe if you're using the standard 1.0 release, instead of a nightly, that may be the reason?

Difficult to suggest anything else, since you don't really give any information about what you've tried out. If you use the RPG Classes mod from the second post in this thread you have to research the Soldier Specialists-topic before being allowed to hire other classes of soldiers.

Don't know if it matters, but if you don't use British English or American English as the chosen language, maybe change to one of those in-game to see if it helps.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2016, 02:34:49 am by Kjotleik »