Re: The X-Com Files - 3.5: Whispers In The Dark

[Czudak]

Now I have a better idea instead. I will make just a mod page there (without any files or downloads) and redirect everything to Mod.io (and, supplementary, here). The report comes later, once I'm done, yo.

[Lone Wolf]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 

I get that each mission in the alien deployments rule file has both civilians: <enter number> and civiliansByType: <enter the string ID of the unit>:<number of units> which determine the number of civilians which are spawned.  Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section, or do I have to specify where these new civilians spawn in on the map too?  If I do have to specify grid coordinates for spawning, how is this done? 

[Stone Lake]

Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section

Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.

[Juku121]

If you want SWAT, add/change something like this:

Code: [Select]

    civiliansByType:
      STR_MALE_SWAT: 10
Note that they'll be interspersed with all the other civilians, unlike an actual reinforcement/SWAT unit.

In theory, you could also reuse the SWAT van like this:

Code: [Select]

    customUfo: STR_SWAT_CAR
But I don't think there's support for several UFO types per deployment, and the Terror Ship is already there.

If you want specific coordinates, you could use spawning items placed on the map. Otherwise, extra civilians try to populate existing map nodes using various rules.

And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items. I was wrong, see below.

[Meridian]

And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.msg134656.html#msg134656

[Solarius Scorch]

Regarding night missions: I can extend alien NV a bit, but I'm not sure it would play all that well with the general design. To me it just feels fake.

Now I have a better idea instead. I will make just a mod page there (without any files or downloads) and redirect everything to Mod.io (and, supplementary, here). The report comes later, once I'm done, yo.

I think this is the best solution. Having been around this community for many years, I 100% agree with Meridian's assessment.
Once upon the time XCF was distributed with OXCE, but eventually I abandoned this approach, as it was confusing in the long run.

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 

I get that each mission in the alien deployments rule file has both civilians: <enter number> and civiliansByType: <enter the string ID of the unit>:<number of units> which determine the number of civilians which are spawned.  Is it just as simple as changing the numbers and/or adding string IDs in the civiliansByType section, or do I have to specify where these new civilians spawn in on the map too?  If I do have to specify grid coordinates for spawning, how is this done?

There are several ways to spawn civilians. But if the mission you mentioned uses this system, then yes, just changing the numbers is enough; you don't need to specify anything else.

Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.

Yeah, civilians spawn on dedicated spawn nodes (used for civilians and some aliens - "scouts"). But it's not necessary to understand this just to increase the number of civilians in a simple mission like the terror site.

[Juku121]

I knew wrong, then.

In that case, making SWAT teams reinforce from a corner (or several) might be preferable, so they'll all spread out together.

...I'm not sure it would play all that well with the general design. To me it just feels fake.

Hmm, is it thematically fake or more 'artificial difficulty' fake? That is, is it the fluff or the crunch that bothers you?

Edit: I mean, my objection to it is that the aliens behave mostly as before, but now their hit chances at 21-40+ tiles are halved.

Of course, I also kinda dislike how much everybody in general tends to miss or just faff about even without smoke in the way.

[Stone Lake]

I think it's the first time anyone complained that aliens are not hardcore enough.

The balance nowadays surprisingly feels overwhelmingly on X-com side post-invasion.
My 1999 was almost exclusively succumbing poor sectoids to police brutality. Yes, they punish mistakes hard and can one-shot you. But if you play good enough you're almost untouchable (which is good design, by the way), down to RNG of no-los penalty sniper shot. Then, by the time 2000 comes, you're literally unbeatable (due to amassed money) and can wipe floor with anyone (due to psi, hwps and maybe even turbolasers).
So more alien variety in 1999 and a bit more terror missions would definitely help. I feel there was more of the latter in older XCF? (There's now more base defense missions - great!)
The ideal mission of this kind is perhaps something like mib magma attack. Though rather pressured by 1000 penalty, mib captures you can get are extremely lucrative, so you should want to do it. Although mibs there could use some HWP support...

[PPQ]

Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask how spawning in allied NPCs works?  I have played a few terror missions with aliens in built up city centers and while I like the missions, the main thought that goes through my head is..."where the hell are the cops?" . 

Yes, I know what you all are going to say which is stuff like, "There's a couple of them running around" (yes there's like one or two but I was expecting a SWAT response team at least), or "Cops got better things to do than get killed" but I have always wanted to see more of them around on these missions.  I am not asking that this be changed for the game since I think the terror missions are fine as is, this is just something I would like to add in myself for personal satisfaction. 

They are being useful elsewhere.

Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league. So even in the most charitable scenario of something like a simple cult raid if the police were to send in forces to "help" XCOM they would at best get in the way and at worst be an open hindrance as XCOM would have to babysit them.

The police are far more useful in these scenarios using their numbers, authority and training to provide general support by cordoning off the effected area, assisting in evacuation of civilians, preventing panic etc.

[Juku121]

I'd say law enforcement in an alien terror scenario are indeed either being useful in actually keeping the peace and civilians off other units' backs... or they're dead. Remember, the ETs just decended out of the blue, and by the time reports reach X-Com, the first massacre has already happened and local authorities have sorted themselves out a little. Well, either that or it's full panic mode and the reports never make it.

Although depending on who's in charge and how fast X-Com gets there, I could see us interrupting a newly arrived SWAT/counterterrorist unit trying their luck with the aliens.


I think the old 'Kansai arc' fanfiction had some pretty good depictions of such missions. It also had the Commander be a womanizing asshole who threatened the UN with nukes. Well, Fusion Balls, but who's counting?

Spoiler" Police OT":

Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league.

Depends on the country. E.g. US and especially Russia are heavily militarised (less so now that they need everything at the front), even if their training isn't quite military, just 'cops with big guns and armoured vehicles'.

Many countries also have high-tier national counter-terror units, be they police or military. These fellows don't end at MP5-s. Heck, even bigger municipal SWAT units come with shields (on wheels), body armour, sniper rifles, assault rifles (I guess there were more SMGs back in the 90s), EOD gear and specialists, drones/robots, flashbangs, tear gas, what have you.

Of course, they are not the military at large, and in a straight shootout even the best CT unit is going to lose to a competent infantry force of similar size. Because infantry does not care about limiting damage to civilians and their environment, so no amount of room-clearing finesse or precision shooting is going to stand up to grenades thrown around like candy, mortars, machine guns and people expecting artillety to land on their heads and not staying put.

And they aren't likely to get all these officers and their gear in place before they realise it's not going to do them much good against plasma guns and super-alloy hulls, or someone manages to get some actual military on the scene, or X-Com arrives to save the day (or more likely the night ). Although the general confusion might see quite a few regular police officers turning up on the scene and into green goo before they figure out this is not a good idea.


Cultist are in a weird place where they have some military hardware but not the training. I'd expect a good SWAT unit to perform well enough against Dagonites, Exalt, even Black Lotus. The Red Dawn are where I'd draw the line of needing the actual military to contain them.

And, yeah, an alien assault is an OCP to even elite units. There is going to be a lot of confusion and panic as the enemy is something completely unexpected, never mind the plasma guns that vaporised the guy two meters to the left.

[Lone Wolf]

Iirc, unit spawn nodes are defined in the map itself. There are usually more than needed, and game picks some of them to spawn xcom/civvies/hostiles. So in most cases you can simply increase the number.

That is good news.  It should make things much easier.

If you want SWAT, add/change something like this:
Code: [Select]
    civiliansByType:
      STR_MALE_SWAT: 10

Yes, this is exactly what I am looking for!  Thanks!

And, sadly, AFAIK actual reinforcements can't be civilians, so you can't have an influx of SWAT arriving at the scene without timed spawner items. I was wrong, see below.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5151.msg134656.html#msg134656

Ok this is interesting.  I'm going to need to look at this more to understand the code, but I am very pleased to learn that we can spawn neutral/allied reinforcements.  It could make for some interesting missions...

"They are being useful elsewhere.

Remember, the police are not a heavily armed military force. They have neither the training nor equipment to handle an active shooter situation beyond the level of a random madman with a gun.  Even the elite door kicker units that go out to arrest organized crime and such at best have light body armor and the occasional MP5. So something like an organized cult raid or god forbid an actual alien assault is going to be hilariously out of their league. So even in the most charitable scenario of something like a simple cult raid if the police were to send in forces to "help" XCOM they would at best get in the way and at worst be an open hindrance as XCOM would have to babysit them.

The police are far more useful in these scenarios using their numbers, authority and training to provide general support by cordoning off the effected area, assisting in evacuation of civilians, preventing panic etc.

This is a good point.  Since I live in the U.S. I keep forgetting that most countries police forces are pretty lightly armed.  Although I will have to agree with Juku that plenty of countries have elite SWAT units and could still put up a decent fight. 

I think the old 'Kansai arc' fanfiction had some pretty good depictions of such missions. It also had the Commander be a womanizing asshole who threatened the UN with nukes. Well, Fusion Balls, but who's counting?

We have fanfics for X-files?  Where?

[Juku121]

We have fanfics for X-files?  Where?

I'm not aware of any XCF fanfics. What I was referring to was the original 90s fanfiction. Before Solarius even thought of making the X-Com Files, before OpenXcom, before fanfiction.net and AO3, before shipping and crossovers spread everywhere like a plague, before Hobbes wrote his epic... There were stories about Akira and Crossett, Lyudmila 'Elemental' Mannski (and her sidekick Otto Zander who came long before the Otto Zander), and the inimitable shadow protagonist Jack Rawlings.

[Lone Wolf]

Ok Juku, you have successfully hyped this fanfic.  I'm gonna put that on my list of stuff to check out and I will start the hunt.  Thanks!

[Juku121]

It's not a single piece of fanfiction. I referenced four series by three authors in my last post.

[PPQ]

Yeah. This mod is full of small-percentage stuff like that. The Envoy Ships have an under 3% cumulative chance to spawn per month. But it's random, so you might get three in a row and then go three years without.

What do I need to change to make that more common?