[OLD] Old OXCE+ discussion thread

[Arthanor]

10. Penalties for head wounds.
Description: Head wounds give penalty to Firing Accuracy, Throwing Accuracy and Psi Skill.
Benefit: Will add more depth to the injury system. Will also be coherent with how you lose accuracy from arm wounds (assuming it was enabled in OXC).
Possible further improvement: Unhardcoding penalties suffered due to Fatal Wounds.

Hum.. and what about arm wounds? Or is that already taken into account? Having leg wounds increase TUs for walking, chest wound increase energy expenditure, and arm wounds increase TUs for object use and decrease accuracy all seem as relevant as head wounds doing stuff.

12. Diversify payments by rank.
Description: Allows to specify soldier salaries by their rank.
Benefit: Proper recognition for the Commander!
Possible further improvement: Adding soldier's rank to the stats that can give bonus damage/recovery/etc. to items.

Sure, but please add a "demote" button that returns a soldier to one rank lower. Or better yet, add a "up for promotion" toggle, so that when there are promotions, only those with the toggle on will be considered. The promotions I get are often not given to those who seem to deserve them.

[Zharkov]

The promotions I get are often not given to those who seem to deserve them.

And we play this game to escape rl!^^

[Yankes]

5) Is done in 3.0, only drawback that it need depends on phase of moon (scripts will handle it)
6) Will be added in 3.0 (scripts will handle it)
Partially done by property `bleedImmune`.
10) exactly same as point 6)
12) special bonuses for different ranks will be again handled same as 6)

[Solarius Scorch]

Hum.. and what about arm wounds? Or is that already taken into account? Having leg wounds increase TUs for walking, chest wound increase energy expenditure, and arm wounds increase TUs for object use and decrease accuracy all seem as relevant as head wounds doing stuff.

Yeah, AFAIK in the original game arm injuries decreased accuracy. Not sure about other such options, but your suggestions sound reasonable and fun.

Sure, but please add a "demote" button that returns a soldier to one rank lower. Or better yet, add a "up for promotion" toggle, so that when there are promotions, only those with the toggle on will be considered. The promotions I get are often not given to those who seem to deserve them.

I wouldn't want any control over this, I just don't feel suitable to judge my men. And I like to see who's getting recognition and who isn't, which can lead to some more distinctive personalities etc. But I wouldn't mind some mechanics similar to the Aurora game: in short, you can toggle some soldiers as your favourite pets and they'll receive a substantial bonus when rank advancement is being decided.

[clownagent]

The promotions I get are often not given to those who seem to deserve them.

This is consistent with many science fiction movies. Just think of the Colonial Marines in "Alien 2". The only guy without combat experience is the commander. 

[Arthanor]

Well, combat experience isn't everything in most military. Non-commissioned officers (ex.: Sergeants) will often have more experience than their officer (ex.: Lieutenants) who come out of school at a later time in life, since the sergeant might have risen through the ranks and started earlier (for same age officers).

It's just that getting a mechanic that increases costs (especially in early Piratez when money is scarce) without much benefits (presumably the morale boost is similar to the risk of a big morale drop if killed) will just lead to firing of the newly promoted average soldier. I am not looking for yet more reasons to fire soldiers (too expensive for his worth, on top of too low starting stats, too low psi strength, too low something else or other).

So this mechanic only makes sense if it increases costs for retaining great soldiers, not just random rookie 11 who happened to be lucky and get the first kill, and being the first sergeant, is the only one ready to be promoted captain, then the only one ready to be promoted commander, even though he didn't do much except score the first kill.

[Solarius Scorch]

It's just that getting a mechanic that increases costs (especially in early Piratez when money is scarce) without much benefits (presumably the morale boost is similar to the risk of a big morale drop if killed) will just lead to firing of the newly promoted average soldier. I am not looking for yet more reasons to fire soldiers (too expensive for his worth, on top of too low starting stats, too low psi strength, too low something else or other).

So this mechanic only makes sense if it increases costs for retaining great soldiers, not just random rookie 11 who happened to be lucky and get the first kill, and being the first sergeant, is the only one ready to be promoted captain, then the only one ready to be promoted commander, even though he didn't do much except score the first kill.

Dude, it's a bit mindblowing what you're saying.
Really you would sack a soldier for something as insignificant as an extra $10000? Really?
I just find it... way beyond extremes of micromanagement, to be honest. Anyway I don't believe in any other reason for sacking soldiers than maybe low Psi Strength, because you can't compensate for that.
Anyway, you'd get the same thing after the next mission, so.

[Arthanor]

Well, there are only a few ways I can see of using that mechanic:

1 - The change is salary is small enough to be overlooked, so it doesn't affect your retention of promoted soldiers. (sort of what you are implying here) Since the mechanic has no significant effect on the game, it was implemented for...? cosmetics? This could be improved...

2 - The change in salary is significant and affects gameplay. By affecting gameplay it means that it gives a new trade-off to the player: Keep an old soldier and pay more, or not (= sack old soldier and get a new one + hope that the next promotion is given to a meaningful soldier). This is not an implementation I have any interest in.

3 - Implement the mechanic such that promotions increase the cost to keep the promoted soldier but also implement something that gives the player some control on who gets promoted. Then I can chose those for whom it is sensible to spend more, and those where it isn't. Then it isn't building on the already silly pseudo-random promotion (I already dislike when mediocre/average soldiers are promoted, since that means a soldier that used to be going in risky situations now has to be preserved because of the morale hit taken if they die. I'd rather promotions be given to soldiers that I already value). Your suggestion of "pet soldiers" who have more likelihood (but not 100%) to be promoted sounds cool for this.

Obviously, I prefer #3, which is why I commented: The initial idea was worth discussing but I consider it could benefit from implementing two mechanics to create a better gameplay experience:
- promotions increase cost (and maybe other things)
- player can impact promotions (which I think is a feature I wouldn't be the only person to enjoy any ways)

[Solarius Scorch]

I actually agree with you 100% Arthanor, but in relation to vanilla (or FMP and such). In Piratez, I think veterans are more valuable and therefore more needed.
And I admit it's a cosmetic thing. I wouldn't like for the rank to mean too much, after all it's just a symbol.

[Arthanor]

Yup, the value of a veteran will vary depending on mods and I'd agree that they are most valuable in Piratez. That'll just mean cost changes need to be adjusted between mods, which woyld make sense.

I'd be expecting a Pirate Queen to be making multiple times what a swabbie makes, but the difference between a rookie and a commander. Unless they're commie pirate freedom fighters, then everybody should make the same

And I'd definitely be up for rank having more of an impact if it also costs more. Like if your officer is waving the flag (or hitting you with an officer cane) being more effective.

[Solarius Scorch]

And I'd definitely be up for rank having more of an impact if it also costs more. Like if your officer is waving the flag (or hitting you with an officer cane) being more effective.

Thank you, I've been looking for an example of rank-dependant variable.

[legionof1]

Enhanced officer effects would be cool. Perhaps some outfits only usable by higher ranks if that even doable.

[Dioxine]

Why disallow using outfits, just hit the with a penalty if their rank isn't high enough (and a bonus if it is)
I will definitely add large salary differences between ranks. If you don't like the promotions and would like to sack a veteran... yeah, your problem and your choice; I actually like it as it means that not every soldier is destined to die in this game Too bad another soldier will be promoted soon Also you actually CAN control promotions by switching the 'battlefield promotions only' option. But high salary for ranking officers would definitely add another (soft) limiting factor on the size of your force: exponential growth of salaries. So, in addition to keeping the initial operation smaller, you will have another thing to do with money once you're filthy rich.

[yrizoud]

Have the pirate flag's efficiency depend on bravery + rank, instead of just bravery.

[Solarius Scorch]

You can keep a soldier in the training facility and also train them in the psi lab at the same time. Could these be exclusive, like in X-Com: Apocalypse?
Speaking of training, would it be possible to make the training buildings train specified stats only? (So we could have a gym and a shooting range, for example.)