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Author Topic: Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - N9 1-Jul-2024 Second Coming  (Read 3955902 times)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4965 on: October 17, 2017, 11:24:01 pm »
Congrats in unlocking nuclear lasers in the near future.
You can use ushanka and fancy shawls to add some cold resist to the assassin-suits.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4966 on: October 18, 2017, 09:31:14 pm »
I tend not to invest in inventory booster items, its a flawed idea and its kinda silly (as a player I don't like them, its inaccurate, if something is going on the character's head then it needs to be on their head, end of story - me not using them is a giant middle finger to this dynamic).


I already deconstructed all my normal lasers except for the assault lasers. Sold all the laspistol clips because I couldnt pry the hellerium out of them, then when I researched the nuclear lasers it gave me that option (go figure).

Laspistol clip extraction should have came up near the start when the rest of them were provided (...I mean if I can pry it out of a heavy laser then a pistol clip should be no problem).

Ive got Plasma Pistols but for some reason I cant make ammo for them. Though I get resupplied well enough that I havent run out yet, I only use plasma pistols on half of my missions.

Normal weapon I use is Smartpistols with the associated clips, even if im up against marsec operatives and military police. It takes a few shots but because of the +reaction damage bonus its still got teeth, and its very inexpensive. Normally I dont care at all about their potential reaction fire, and if I do I will shoot the same guy using different hands so that (he basically gets shot several times all at once).

But mainly if I am expecting hard targets ill be using Plasma Pistols or the Death Blossom (HVAP). I prefer the blossom because ive got a bunch of it laying around, made a bunch of these guns and a ton of ammo for them as soon as I got access to it. But I do prefer the plasma pistol just because if I need to stow it in inventory to use something else real quick (Rum, Aye Phone) I dont have to actually drop anything.

(remember, anyone in flying armor doesnt have a backpack, and even though I dont give them melee they're still typically using the same weapons as everyone else)

We're supposed to diversify equipment but I find it to be a PITA to micromanage inventory like that, and usually like just giving everybody the same thing if I can.

Other standard issue equipment for my gals:
Hellerium Grenade x1
Stick Grenade x1 (for demolitions, or a virtually guaranteed hit)
Rum (all medikits are btfo)
Aye Phone
...possibly 2 Knockout Grenades

Melee:
Force Blade (ive got like 8 of these now)
or Barbed Dagger
...I dont give someone a melee weapon unless their skill is at least 90.
...Everyone is called upon to whack people with Aye Phones though, this is what replaced the handle.


Ahh back on topic... Nuclear Lasers...
Im looking forward to using the nuclear lasers because the Scorchy is an infinite laser pistol and I think everybody will be getting this, also because it can beat someone over the head. Also the Advanced Lasgun because thats good enough to replace some weapons and even weapon groups permanently

But im especially looking forward to the Heavy Laser version of the nuclear lasers. Because ammunition is a big deal for the heavy laser and I hate bringing it along because of that... so now ill feel free to do so.

(I have an MP Lascannon that sits on the floor of the transport, with an extra clip, just in case I really need a spot remover)

You might care to point out the Fatty but ive had the fatty once and I just didn't really get the feel for it. Yeah it beats most of the other miniguns but in mobile warfare its like woo-hoo I killed one dude with it. Maybe im old fashioned but I kinda expect a Minigun to mow down 5 people, not hit the same guy 10 times. And if it takes 10+ hits to kill something then it needs to be quick (like a Shiv) or I should really be using a different weapon. That (44?) damage from the Fatty is not going to touch Sectopod hit points no matter how many times I shoot it.

(I think the fatty should be given the Smasher or SR Shotgun treatment, make it a shotgun that fires a wide spread of 5 pellets, with x4 autofire - id recommend using one of the fallout gatling laser sound effects, im partial to the original retro one or the one from fallout tactics)

Not my fault the engine cant handle drawing multiple projectiles, someone shoulda considered that back at the beginning when it was more feasible to figure out.



Sniper weapons arent really all that useful to me because they're way too slow, but ive got a Markslaser if I ever care to use one and ammo isn't a big deal for a sniper gun (space missions it comes in handy for... but thats about it).

Since im modding the game im considering a new dynamic for applying Negative Falloff for accuracy with sniper weapons. That is the farther you get away the higher the % will increase. This means that they are truly designed for long range and no matter how far away you are you pretty much have the same Actual Percentage chance to hit someone (like a ranged touch attack in d&d). It might not match up and the accuracy could still overall degrade over distance, im thinking maybe -0.25 or -0.5 falloff. That is, if applying Negative Falloff is possible.

It lends justification to having the Squared formula preserved (currently ive disabled it). Im considering making sniper weapons based on Reactions rather than Firing Accuracy.

Remember 100% chance listed to hit doesn't mean 100% chance, it means a trajectory cone of a certain size.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2017, 09:37:40 pm by RSSwizard »

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4967 on: October 19, 2017, 09:23:23 am »
1.) To manufacture plasma clips you need a fusion reactor up and running. You can check missing facilities in the manufacturing screen.
2.) Those lost hellerium units by selling the laspistol-clips shouldn't be too much of an issue in the longrun since you made pure money to buy a fully functional hellerium-capsule later on.
3.) You got plasma unlocked. Nuclear lasers selling point is the 1/3 armorpen and unlimited ammo. While the "battlelaser" is a fine weapon you can also go for plasma only and just melt anything. There isn't alot of weaponry able to beat plasma weaponry in a 1to1 comparision.
4.) Smartpistols are lovely but I'm a huge fan of the cougar as my to-go mansion-assault pistol along with smasher-pistols and neural whips. I'll give the blossom more love in my grey-codex run.
5.) Inventory management can be tedious with the vast amount of tools to wreck havoc. The fastest way is to equip everyone equal. I keep catching myself using the exact same layout for most gals since it's a given game mechanic across every game in existence. If you have a potent weapon of (mass) destruction you're always going to use it. It's a natural instinct and follows the path of running the path of the least resistance (e.g. not having to bother about your stamina/throwing using handaxes and ninja-stars)
6.) That's a bunch of light-sabers you got there ^^. I doubt you need anything else other than more of these swords.
7.) MP Lascannon should be something to d/a again since your plasma weaponry does the job better (and more reliable for TU-usage)
8.) Sadly the minigun/HMG's in this game can't be commanded to shot in a moving angle. Suppression weaponry is hard to code in a turn-based game. Since the bullet's stop spraying in the enemy turn these guns are pretty much guns with auto-fire only and most of the time no aimed and snap. They bring raw damage (against those that can be hurt, a sectopod has like 130 frontarmor and even it's backplate is barely scratch-able by a fatty-barage while it goes down in 1-2 saberslashes.)
9.) You could give the sniper-gauss a try with the new TFTD-damage formula. (50-150%) Also most sniperguns using 2d100 rolls now to get higher average rolls (they can still roll low c: )
10.) This new mechanic sounds okay but I can't see the reason to use the reaction-score. It's all about precision and that's what the firing skill is meant for. I'm open for new content! A buff to sniper weaponry to overshadow the raw utility of basic rifles (those with snap, aimed and (x3) autos) is something to look into.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4968 on: October 19, 2017, 10:23:33 pm »
1.) To manufacture plasma clips you need a fusion reactor up and running. You can check missing facilities in the manufacturing screen.
3.) You got plasma unlocked. Nuclear lasers selling point is the 1/3 armorpen and unlimited ammo. While the "battlelaser" is a fine weapon you can also go for plasma only and just melt anything. There isn't alot of weaponry able to beat plasma weaponry in a 1to1 comparision.

Yes I love cougars very much, but I dont think thats a topic fit for openxcom discussion :P

Interesting note about the plasma pistol clips, I dont have access to it yet because I cant get higher studies (that is what is required for fusion reactor?). That pesky implosion bomb launcher.

I got lucky with a few mansion robberies and the entire mansion surrendered, got the uranium as well as the treasure chests. Each treasure chest gives a topaz among other things. And the first treasure chest didnt get lost because an altar boy gave me the lookup for it instead of researching it directly. I have quite a few gems sitting around and nothing to do with them, im resisting the urge to sell them because I dont know what else is coming up that might need them (I had forgotten the lightsabers required a topaz for example).

Since the lightsabers are so useful I made as many as I could. Ive only really seen use of maybe having 3 with me on missions so im likely to start shipping the remainder to other bases in case they need to attack something, or they get raided. I sabered a Trader Lord (just once) in my most recent enemy hideout attack, checked him and sure enough he was bleeding, so I just ran off and let him collapse.


Miniguns:
The way I modded this was giving them a snap shot that still takes like 35% or 40% TU, while the burst takes over 50%. Since they spray multiple shots per attack (shotgun pellets) its pretty much like firing an auto attack with an assault rifle anyway, except it can be done as a reaction fire too.

So you can still use them in a pinch, but being able to dump a truck of rounds that tear up walls is where they beat an assault rifle. The minigun got its ammo count divided by 5 but now fires x5 per attack and the auto shots is 5 i think.

I also modded all of the machineguns to fire like this too except they're usually x3 with auto shots 3. What makes them even more spiffy is I gave them a nifty multi-shot sound effect kinda like how the chaingun has. Just because its so good I attached it, along with some of the other sounds im using. I used the ubiquitous original fallout minigun sound effect for the minigun.

I keep the MP lascannon because of that 140 damage, which happens to be laser damage not piercing. If need and necessity bring it into use then im already prepared for the TU costs. Also one reason I tend not to like using plasma guns is because all of them have overkill turned on and I like recovering corpses.

(which reminds me I need to get a Mining Laser going to replace the fusion torch I always have on the transport floor)



Sniper Stuff:
I deconstructed my sniper gauss as soon as I could.
Also you have to understand im a purist about TFTD stuff so I modded all of the gauss weapons to work pretty much like they did in TFTD. Ie, they arent railguns they're particle beam weapons. But I did keep the damage as piercing with a 1/2 armor multiplier. They sound like the original TFTD weapons too. I kinda left the sniper gauss doing as much as the musket since it has the firing bonus to damage.

The reason I wanted to go with reactions for sniper weapons is because firing accuracy is like a 1 dimensional progression, and sniper guns are scoped and this means you have great accuracy inherently with the weapon already, its almost foolproof, you could shoot someone a mile away with a scoped energy weapon like this if the battlefield extended that far. Except that it isn't... you have to fight your own over-reactions to avoid overshooting or over-leading the target because its just so easy to do with the sight picture moving around as much as it is. Its a matter of reactions not aiming.

On the other hand using sniper weapons does Not train up reactions, it still trains up firing accuracy. It is a weapon that always tests you, it does not train you. Still, at a distance even if your accuracy sucks with it the actual chance to hit the target isnt going to go down quite as much, so 50% actual probability up close is still going to be like 35% out at the edge of the battlefield.

(I would also contest that in a tactical battle with adrenaline pumping, Firing Accuracy is only partially about precision anyway, its mostly about leading targets and being able to maintain focus and control in a stressful situation - none of these things are actually improved by shooting at the range. IRL police only have about a statistical 4% chance per trigger pull to shoot a fleeing suspect who's running)

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4969 on: October 19, 2017, 10:48:58 pm »
Alot of promissing changes. Maybe some day those are *legal* implemented into the mod. Shotgun-like miniguns would feel much better to mow down goons.

Offline ksnova

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4970 on: October 19, 2017, 10:59:53 pm »
Just a minor string problem, but when I try to transfer a prisoner to another base (if that base's prisons are full), I still get the same message saying that there ARE no prisons at that base. :P If there IS room in the prisons for them, well, it transfers them over as it should.

Also, what do I need in order to build a Mess Hall, Still, or Old Earth Lab in my bases? The Tech Tree Viewer didn't make it clear. I can build a Mess Hall in one base, but not the other.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2017, 11:35:09 pm by ksnova »

Offline khade

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4971 on: October 20, 2017, 02:04:22 am »
Read the description of the mess hall, it requires a still.  Don't remember what you need to unlock the still, you start with one but can't build more until you research it.  The old earth lab is a unique.  You will never get another, don't lose that first base.   ;D

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4972 on: October 20, 2017, 02:05:58 am »
Alot of promissing changes. Maybe some day those are *legal* implemented into the mod. Shotgun-like miniguns would feel much better to mow down goons.

now that I loaded up my machinegunsTweak.rul I can quote the stats I gave them:
Fatty:  44 dmg (double all health/wounding/stun), x8 autofire (Auto: 62t/50%)
Minigun:  30/35 dmg (50 ammo), 5 pellets, x5 autofire (Snap: 40t/40%, Auto: 64t/40%)
Vulcan:  65 dmg (20 ammo), 4 pellets, x5 autofire (Snap: 45t/55%, Auto: 72t/45%)
UAC Chaingun: 36dmg, 3 pellets, x3 autofire (Snap: 32t/50%, Auto: 48t/40%)
Bozar: 44dmg (12 ammo), 5 pellets, x3 autofire (Acc: 115/65/55%, TU: 70/38/52)
Saw: 30/34 dmg (16 or 24 ammo), 3 pellets, x2 autofire (Acc: 85/60/55%, TU: 65/35/45), Shotgun Choke 70
Saw Gyro:  85/65/70% acc and Shotgun Choke 85 (still x2 autofire)
Saw Meridian:  65/32/38 TUs (still x2 autofire)
Assault Machinegun: 32/32/43 dmg (30 or 33 ammo), 3 pellets, x3 autofire (Acc: -/45/45%, TU: -/35/52), Shotgun Choke 50
Smartgun: -/60/60% acc and Shotgun Choke 100

There is a little bit of unbalancing that has been applied... but there are alot of enemies that carry the AMG and other weapons, and I got reaction fired on by a machinegun twice now (though they missed once, and the other time I didnt get hurt).

In unrelated news I took the UAC rifle and made it shoot a single projectile (does 84 damage, but grants 2.7x armor to compensate. Pretty much you get hit by all 3 or none at all just like the G11).

I also Removed the Snap shot from most of the rocket launchers (including the RPG). It just doesn't make sense having a strategic weapon like that (as a hand, or as the enemy) and being able to make a careless knee jerk shot with it. It hurts as much as it helps - those guys with baby nukes are only dangerous if you get caught out in the open - but it also means they are slow weapons that you have to dedicate a turn to using yourself.

(how often does the AI make an aimed shot? I presume they default to aimed shots if they have the TUs to do it)
« Last Edit: October 20, 2017, 02:21:09 am by RSSwizard »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4973 on: October 20, 2017, 06:15:17 am »
Alot of promissing changes. Maybe some day those are *legal* implemented into the mod. Shotgun-like miniguns would feel much better to mow down goons.

I am a huge fan of modding Piratez to make it a better game for me to play.  I also heartily endorse RSSwizard's initiative to make tweaks that the game more enjoyable for him too.

However, I would hesitate to endorse that these be adopted into the main mod.  I think they are a bit too radical in their departure from the weapons schema in this world and the game balanced already designed around it. 

Nonetheless, its experimentation like this where great ideas are born, so keep up the good work! 

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4974 on: October 20, 2017, 01:24:13 pm »
Read the description of the mess hall, it requires a still.  Don't remember what you need to unlock the still, you start with one but can't build more until you research it.  The old earth lab is a unique.  You will never get another, don't lose that first base.   ;D

The still is unlocked with the research topic "Alchemy".
Alchemy also unlocks the ability to brew vodka (x25). Losing the base with the old earth lab is in most cases a reason to reload/restart. In worst case you lose all loot, your best hands, the majority of your runts and scientists and on top of that your complete research.

Screwing up in year 1 is pretty much a restart.
Around mid-year 2 and later on it might be possible to recover, resulting in a massive slowdown to recover the missing personnel.
The biggest issue is the space-efficiency the old-earth lab has as the only building able to do "computer core" tasks (hacking etc.) and offering 15 brainerslots. The old earthlab offers 5times the space of a "computer core" while costing alot less upkeep.

Considering the mods to the existing mod yes I get the creation philosophy behind the setting and ruleset as a functioning core-design.
I just said it would be neat since it's so promissing based on the sound of it (and I can imagine in practice too).
The thing with snap-shot rocket launchers made we wonder since the vanilla game. Operatives carrying those toys were certain doom for your whole squad if they panic/getting mc'ed inside the skyranger. Using unloaded launchers wasn't a garanteed option for the traitor to just reload a spare rocket and shot anyway (besides from tossing a grenade or using a handgun).

The way Piratez offers way more reactionshots (due to higher base reactionscore and constant reaction-checks) if you ever fail to remove all remaining TU's on a RPG with a babynuke in it and the gal does a reactionshot, well things getting toasty inside the menace-class/thunderhorse. It's a fine QOL change but some determination from the player's side is a given to get anywhere with the campaign.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4975 on: October 20, 2017, 03:04:49 pm »
By the way RSSwizard, you can make snapshots fire like an autoshot now, using the confSnap tag:
Code: [Select]
items:
  - type: STR_SOME_MACHINEGUN
    ...
    confSnap:
      shots: 3
    ...

No need to force the shotgun code to do what you want for multiple shots in reaction fire.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4976 on: October 20, 2017, 10:47:33 pm »
Espers are often on Academy Pogroms.  They are also available in Large academy ships: Frigates and Cruisers, iirc.

Offline Ethereal_Medic

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4977 on: October 21, 2017, 12:50:27 am »
Stupid me I found the easy way to get the *sci books* topic.
Just have to do alliance favours x3

Offline Ashghan

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4978 on: October 21, 2017, 03:06:15 pm »
Suppression weaponry is hard to code in a turn-based game.

I liked the implementation of this mechanic done in Jagged Alliance 2 1.13 mod. VERY detailed explanation here. Not sure if it would be possible to code in the required functions though - checking bullet proximity, counting 'suppression points', etc. Another problem is the possibility of sweeping autofire - that one's probably not possible without a huge rewrite of gamecode. Even in JA2 that function worked... somewhat clumsily.

Remember 100% chance listed to hit doesn't mean 100% chance, it means a trajectory cone of a certain size.
I'm not so sure about that in Xpiratez/OXcom. Perhaps someone might prove me wrong or right, but it actually rolls the hit chance and then (on a success) just draws a line to visible element of enemy geometry (center of model usually, but head or leg if the soldier is behind an obstacle that covers the torso) and sends a bullet along that trajectory.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: [MAIN] XPiratez - 0.99H1 - 15 Sep - Under A Killing Moon
« Reply #4979 on: October 21, 2017, 09:14:20 pm »
I'm not so sure about that in Xpiratez/OXcom. Perhaps someone might prove me wrong or right, but it actually rolls the hit chance and then (on a success) just draws a line to visible element of enemy geometry (center of model usually, but head or leg if the soldier is behind an obstacle that covers the torso) and sends a bullet along that trajectory.

No, determines the direct line to the middle of the target, then a trajectory is rolled at random based on the percent chance to hit. You could have over 100% chance to hit and it will miss somebody if they're far enough away (in vanilla where it doesn't have range reductions). Likewise in xpiratez rifles don't have a maximum range, and even if the chance to hit is over 100 you can still miss for example in the space missions where there's alot of distance.


I do think it would be rather interesting (though require some adjustments to weapon stats) if it would first do a flat % chance to hit, and if you hit then it just sends that shot on a perfect trajectory to the target, as well as completely ignoring any kind of LOF tables (since you already have a line of fire).

And on a miss - well then it just sends the shot on a random trajectory like it normally does with some reduction in accuracy - which could still hit, though you could make the game do a (one) reroll on it to reduce the chances of that miss turning into a hit.

(this would have been an easy way to deal with projectile melee attacks by also adding a clause/option that misses automatically and ignore the intended target's collision, like could hit the wall behind them too)
« Last Edit: October 21, 2017, 09:18:00 pm by RSSwizard »