The "Please Stop Using 1.0" Discussion

[Meridian]

So, I think we finally understand each other.

All we are asking for is that insignificant label (tag) on a particular commit and a downloadable installer.
And if we can have pre-releases, even better... but I am afraid of asking for that... I'd be happy even with as little as above.


PS1: I don't think the community is able to agree and select a particular nightly as RC... people have different opinions and different needs... this must be decided by one (or very few) persons

PS2: and yes, I know what stability means in terms of software (I have studied software engineering and I work as software engineer for 11 years now). But (as far as I can tell) 90% or more of people on this forum are not software engineers. I deliberately use words with their common meaning, so that everybody understands what I am trying to say

[ivandogovich]

Some more good discussion while I sleep!

@Volutar: You stated that 1.1 is nigh.    If that is true it would be great news!  I haven't heard anything about it on the forum, or in the Chat.  Can you fill us in on what you mean by that?  (nigh means coming soon, or almost arrived).   Will 1.1 be another milestone along the way to OpenTftD?  or just an updated milestone for OXC? 

My impression is that OpenTftD development is in progress and that it should be available sometime this year.  If it was Ivan guessing, I'd say June to September.  This guess is in no way scientific.  It simply a gut feeling.

Regarding a 1.1,  I'm sure that Modders and others with a desire for "perceived stability" would gladly update their mods, and create new LPs, etc with a release such as this.

[alienfood]

Here is how we might converge on a 1.1 release.

- We occasionally report a git build that we have been using and having success with. We list the mods that we are using.
- This is like a high-water mark that gradually moves forward. It is really about putting "play hours" on a build (as in a mean-time-between-failure metric). I am currently using a Jan 2 build with lots of mods but if, say, Falko is using a Jan 10th build successfully, I would move my install forward.
- Each time the high-water mark moves forward, we have a new candidate that could be a 1.1 build.
- At some point, a dev lead announces a timetable for a 1.1 release, and we all start using the same candidate.
- If the candidate has enough quality, it becomes 1.1 with all the required ceremony (e.g. an installer, release notes, download link)

I am a huge fan of getting stuff out there for people to try. But many users prefer named builds with an installer. The nightlies are generally high-quality and almost any of them could be announced as a 1.1 candidate. At that point we would all move to the candidate and play for a month, then we go gold.

[Hobbes]

- We occasionally report a git build that we have been using and having success with. We list the mods that we are using.
- This is like a high-water mark that gradually moves forward. It is really about putting "play hours" on a build (as in a mean-time-between-failure metric). I am currently using a Jan 2 build with lots of mods but if, say, Falko is using a Jan 10th build successfully, I would move my install forward.

How about a sticky thread in Modding/Experiments where modders can simply post and discuss what nightly they are using and their experiences with it? I would definitely keep a eye on that thread and LP'ers like Meridian could use it too, if simply to ask which nightly they should use.

[alienfood]

How about a sticky thread in Modding/Experiments where modders can simply post and discuss what nightly they are using and their experiences with it? I would definitely keep a eye on that thread and LP'ers like Meridian could use it too, if simply to ask which nightly they should use.

I think this is an admirable idea.

[volutar]

Alienfood, sounds like a plan! Making windows installer is not a problem at all. Afaik SupSuper have his script ready to run. Other platforms might be the problem. They have ther respective maintainers which could get their hand on it in month or two. Of course it's up on his will, but community can say its word too.

But really there are not much stuff to do before 1.1 mainly the bug tests. Updates considering tftd shouldn't affect mods. In last few months only one thing happened with the nightly theoretically capable of breaking old mods. It's the mapscripting. Recent ruleset split caused one issue but it's already fixed. There are couple of things but they shouldn't affect things that much. And shouldn't break mods.

Ivandogovich, opentftd would be mistake. No one wants to maintain two gits. So it will be just another OpenXcom release. To run with both games it would need nunber of steps done. At the moment devs are running it hacky way. I'm not sure about this summer since geoscape wasn't even touched. And there are pretty many things to be implemented(considering land/ocean interception and many types of terror)

Meridian, I think community is able to take particular git version and tag it as Prerelease. About word choice. OpenXcom is open project, not commercial, and developer terminology is pretty at its place.

Hobbes, it would be really great if you help other modders to catch up new map generating concept.

[Hobbes]

Hobbes, it would be really great if you help other modders to catch up new map generating concept.

Already working on it

[Falko]

In last few months only one thing happened with the nightly theoretically capable of breaking old mods. It's the mapscripting.

if you include nightly mods the reordering of the drawingroutines (IIRC introduction of Aquatoid) is/was also modbreaking

[Yankes]

How about a sticky thread in Modding/Experiments where modders can simply post and discuss what nightly they are using and their experiences with it? I would definitely keep a eye on that thread and LP'ers like Meridian could use it too, if simply to ask which nightly they should use.

If we going to "community" milestone solution, then we should create "mod" on openxcom.com with that nightly. After that each mod could reference what version of exe is it compatible. It would be great if Jo5hua build it that functionality to his portal.

[volutar]

Falko, well, maybe you're right. I didn't name that because it's tftd area. Mapscripting in a meantime is common thing (tho often it is in backward compatibility area).

Next thing that will probably break mods is terror site types and frequency rules. Everything else is pretty much mature and shouldn't get changed radically.

Idea of adding section with old nightly versions to OpenXcom.com and git reference for each mod is really worth implementing (both source and exe for win32 version).

[Hobbes]

Next thing that will probably break mods is terror site types and frequency rules. Everything else is pretty much mature and shouldn't get changed radically.

I'm actually looking forward to this change for a really long time: you can break my rulesets all night long baby! 

[Solarius Scorch]

I'm actually looking forward to this change for a really long time: you can break my rulesets all night long baby! 

Agreed! I simply wouldn't want to miss on all the new functionalities. (Though it took me two months to fix the FMP after the mapscript. )

Next thing that will probably break mods is terror site types and frequency rules.

Good. This stuff needs some rework to give modders more freedom.

[ivandogovich]

And in other new, Volutar can rest happy that Meridian has started his new FMP playthrough and is using the latest Nightly.

[ivandogovich]

I'll just put this here as an example of my original point to Volutar.  CTD during recording session with PirateZ.  Autosave allows us to recover fairly easily.  And I'm not really concerned about it in this LP perse, because we are testing a pre-release mod and leveraging nightlies to do it.  The good news is that Warboy was quickly able to fix the nightly before I recorded any more of the episodes, so the campaign is still in fine shape.  Its just things like this can could cause other LPers to be reluctant to jump on the latest nightlies.

https://youtu.be/HBgmibvCwE8?t=21m55s

Cheers, Ivan