Author Topic: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03  (Read 64658 times)

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #75 on: October 25, 2014, 09:33:41 pm »
Yes, I just realized that :) I'll be moving them into their own folder and using your ruleset as the basis for a new expansion module for alloy weapons. Overall, it is very well done! Maybe eventually we can add pistols, rifles, etc. to it, made out of alloys so lighter and maybe more versatile in terms of ammunition. I am thinking of using something like that to fire the elerium explosive ammo for the cannons, especially, and why not add incendiary damage to the pistol/rifle as a complement? But that's more for later.

There are a few things I will likely tweak, but I like the prerequisites as they are. I might tweak the UFOPaedia entry to mention increased durability of the gun's barrel after studying alien plasma weapons (which in turn will feed into allowing it to fire the dragon's kiss ammunition).

I am mostly looking at the research cost (800 is a LOT, on par with the Heavy Plasma!), plus the 500 for the new ammo (more than the heavy plasma clip!).

Another thing that worries me is the autoshot. Firing 3 times 6 pellets at 30 damage each is 540 damage! Of course, that's not really true since it doesn't take armour into account and all shotgun type weapons greatly suffer from that in the later game. But in the early game, that's a devastating weapon against alien infantry. I am thinking of changing the autoshots to 2, and/or changing the accuracy/TUs, but haven't really thought enough about it.

Edit: Oh! And I forgot.. A sneak peak of the next module. This is gonna take a while...
« Last Edit: October 25, 2014, 11:18:10 pm by Arthanor »

Offline Ascadix

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #76 on: October 26, 2014, 01:08:24 am »
i,


v2 ruleset,  with the modification i was wondering ...

- dragon kiss is compatible with standard shotgun
- reinforced shotgun only depend on alloy, not other alien tech/research.

I don't know which rulset is best balanced ....


For the idea of a full set of weapon based on good-old human concepts but optimized an built with alloy, i think at such a set for some time.

There is some great pixelarts in Chiko's ressource posts : https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=383.0

But they lack handobs gfx, and i'm not good at drawing them, so for now, this is just an idea.

Offline NoelBuddy

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #77 on: October 26, 2014, 01:19:38 am »
Here's a shotgun version I've been using for the alloy version.  It's based off a Doom shotgun that was posted a while back adjusted, recolored and with a reworked handOb.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 01:21:38 am by NoelBuddy »

Offline TaxxiDriver

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #78 on: October 26, 2014, 07:42:46 am »
I'm also playing with this mod and trying to modify it to my taste :) Mostly about adjusting the subtle damage or armor and stuff (not good at adding new things).

What I did was the following:

(1) I let the tank cannon and tank rocket launcher be able to be purchased in an ordinary way, too. In the early games, I thought that the required 25 size for assembling a tank can be overwhelming so I also let the option to buy them, not manufacturing only.

(2) Removed 'sniper rifle' class weapons and modified the hierarchy of weapon types. The general hierarchy became standard -> gauss -> de-gauss -> laser -> e-laser -> plasma -> blaster.
     The intention was to boost the damage of weapons as their hierarchy goes up, but to lower the accuracy (except the fact that accuracy peak is achieved in gauss & de-gauss class) so that only those competent commandors who managed to maintain a lot of experienced soldiers can have a great advantage as time goes by (for example, in my modification heavy plasma do not have auto shots, weighted 18, and accuracy of snap shot and aim shot is 45 and 80 each).
     But the relationship between weapon types do not strictly follow this hierarchy: For example, I retained the notion that gauss weapons deal more damage but laser weapons use less TUs for shooting. But in general (hopefully) as time goes by, laser weapons will do a better job if agents are experienced enough.
     The reason I put gauss weapons a bit before the laser ones was because (1) it fits well to the above hierarchy (2) I'm trying to make Aliens also have some laser weapons in the early months but not gauss weapons (anyway gauss weapons seemed to me more like 'earthbound' weapons). (3) currently there seems to be no way of defining new damage type and gauss weapons deal AP damage, so it seemed to me logical to think gauss weapons as an upgraded version of standard issues.
     The reason I removed sniper class weapons was to make this effect stronger (to prevent less competent commandors to just issue a bunch of sniper rifles to rookies, thus making the game more challenging). Especially with UFOextender Accuracy mode, anyway most of your shots will be a snap or aimed shot, so I found little reason to maintain them(though they look very cool...).
     Well, all of these are just explaining what I'm doing, that's all :D

And my personal suggestions are:

(1) How about filling out all the possible HWP combinations? For example, what about a plain cannon with a hovertank hull? There are some missing combinations (plain laser hovertank, plain gauss hovertank, cannon alloy tank) and I think giving the complete option to mix weapons and hulls would be a nice feature. (More fun!)

(2) How about combining the Sectopod HWP mod? I'm actually thinking of the most fun HWP hierarchy as this: normal -> alloy -> hover OR sectopod hwp. Also, I'm waiting for your dual-weapon HWP :) I've seen Crypto has made the battle tank mod where battle tank can shoot cannons as well as rockets.

(3) Is it possible to prepare 2 types of ammos for a given HWP? (not duel-weapon HWP but just giving 2 types of ammos for a HWP). It would be great if rocket launcher HWPs can also choose a stronger rockets.

Good job, indeed. I'm enjoying this mod a lot.

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #79 on: October 26, 2014, 08:04:41 am »
I haven't played around with XCom Armoury Expanded...yet. (I just finished my most recent playthrough from getting OXC again and resuming my interest) I was planning to do a playthrough of this with some elements of my Tanks Drones Sectopods? Oh my! because I need to keep testing it, playing around with it, etc... until I can get the sprites for the Alloy tanks done.

But it looks like some things that TaxxiDriver suggest are arguable. Removing the Sniper Rifles are probably a bad move for the mod. Not the modder personally, as they can remove that, but the mod in general. It would be a better move to let modders do as they wish at their discretion. Secondly, the tank manufacturing is kinda BS. In the Vanilla game, the non-hovering researched tanks typically took 25 manufacturing spaces. I would imagine that a more close-to-home manufacturing project would be at most 15 spaces, and at least 10, IMO.

____

And to answer TaxxiDriver's last question, no it isn't possible IIRC. Each HWP weapon only has one ammo type, but with the new two weapons thing it's the closest thing we'll get to something like that.

Offline TaxxiDriver

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #80 on: October 26, 2014, 08:21:25 am »
Removing the Sniper Rifles are probably a bad move for the mod. Not the modder personally, as they can remove that, but the mod in general. It would be a better move to let modders do as they wish at their discretion.

Yes, indeed. I agree on you. So that was definitely not my suggestion for this mod. Just my personal messing playing with this mod  :)

Secondly, the tank manufacturing is kinda BS. In the Vanilla game, the non-hovering researched tanks typically took 25 manufacturing spaces. I would imagine that a more close-to-home manufacturing project would be at most 15 spaces, and at least 10, IMO.

I agree... 25 is really a huge amount of space, especially at the early part of the game. Not sure what would be the optimal space, though.

And to answer TaxxiDriver's last question, no it isn't possible IIRC. Each HWP weapon only has one ammo type, but with the new two weapons thing it's the closest thing we'll get to something like that.

Well, then I expect the second best thing will come out soon!


Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #81 on: October 26, 2014, 06:20:28 pm »
Lots of feedback, that's great!

Regarding shotguns, I have started making the "XAE_Alloy_Weapons" mod, which has the alloy shotgun inside. I think it will become a new tier of weaponry before lasers/gauss.

The elerium explosive mod I had been working on will become elerium ammo, with elerium incendiary damage for pistol/rifle and elerium explosives for the cannons/rocket launcher. The projects will be batches so that you can produce more than one clip per elerium unit for pistols and rifles (since otherwise it would be useless), but fewer shots than regular ammo (and much fewer than alloy ammo) per clips.

Gauss weapons will also get an endgame elerium incendiary ammo wrapped up in the same expansion mod. Gauss becomes useless otherwise compared to lasers. In my current playthrough, I used (DE) Gauss extensively, especially for snipers, along with the (Elerium) lasers, until I ditched Gauss entirely because of the crappy damage type. It won't be a boost in damage compared to DE ammo (might be a nerf?), but the change to incendiary should be worth it.

About the changes:

1) I thought about letting the basic tank hulls be purchasable built already, then decided against it. I thought it was redundant since you can buy the parts. But I could easily change it. But I really don't get the space issue. A workshop provides 50 spaces. In the early game, how many engineers do you have? And assembling/dismantling a tank is a really fast project, so even if some engineers are taking a break, it's not for long. I don't think I will change that.

2) One of the first goal of the mod was to add a sniper rifle :P (along with the shotgun) I have tried to make the TU cost enough (and the accuracy gain small enough) that a sniper rifle is a tool for marksmen only, for those shot that you really need to land. It should not be a good tool for rookies. If you think rookies are best given sniper rifles, let me know why and I will try to fix that. I give mine pistols or shotguns.

Also, the mod is intended to be used with the Alien Armoury Expanded, which adds a plasma sniper rifle (and shotgun). To me, that makes it necessary to have sniper rifles of other kinds too, otherwise it creates a contradiction.

Of course, if you're not using the AAE, that's different. Then you should probably just not use the "XCom Armoury Expanded" module either (since why have shotguns and equivalents for everything but plasma?). You can still use every other modules (Crafts + all the XAE Expansions) any ways. Version 1.02 will add a "requirement" for shotgun and sniper rifle equivalents so that they don't show up if you don't have basic shotguns and sniper rifles.

For me, it's AAE+XAE, or neither. Same goes with crafts (AAE UFOs + XAE Crafts, or neither). Both mods were created under the assumption of running the alien versions. I don't want to split the XAE between shotgun and sniper rifle, since the AAE has both together. It might be a little bit wonky now, but 1.02 will support running everything/anything else without the XCom Armoury Expanded, and crafts are already "separate but integrated".

2.1) The progression you have is interesting. In general it might be true that Gauss tech is more approachable (you're still sending a chunk of stuff as fast as possible to your target, just using a different way) and could be a good "tier-2" weapon. I just don't see a proper way to make lasers wait until after Gauss. Also, as it is, the damage numbers really don't make any sense if you get DE Gauss before normal lasers. It is too early in the game for the damage type to matter..

2.2) Changing heavy plasma stats is a BIG no-no for me. You just totally nerfed the aliens doing that, for no reason whatsoever. I understand that heavy plasmas need to be nerfed for XCom, but you cannot forget the impact on aliens. They need their powerful weapon to compensate for the AI not being able to properly equip aliens or properly use its guns.

Suggestions:
1) If you have a gauss alloy tank/hovertank, why would you want a cannon one? Both deal single target AP damage and the cannon deals less. I only kept the combinations that seemed sensible to me. If you are using an expensive weapon (DE Gauss, ELaser, Plasma, Blaster), you want to put it on a resilient platform. If you use a crappy weapon, it's because you are trying to be cheap, so you don't put it on a hovertank. Also, the manufacturing list with hulls, hull repairs, assembly and dismantling is already quite long. So that's why it's not in the main mod. I will add a "tank expansion" mod to do it for those who would like it though.

2) I am not a big fan of XCom cyberdiscs and sectopods for the reason that I think the aliens keep some of their cool stuff. XCom are a bunch of early 2000s humans, stealing everything the aliens do within a year, even if you have 1000 scientists working on it, makes no sense. Fancy stuff like mini-flying saucers without turrets and big walkers is too much for me. Maybe XComFan419 can take a subset of his Tank, Drones and Sectopod mod that only has the Cyberdiscs and Sectopods (and maybe drones) that is compatible with the XAE.

3) As XComFan419 said, it is impossible to have HWP (or crafts, for that matter) that pick from different ammos, unfortunately. I will eventually release 2 weapons HWPs though. However, don't expect every weapon combination to be available. It will mostly be: Smoke Launcher + weapon and Direct fire (Cannon/Laser/ELaser/Gauss/DE Gauss/Plasma) with Blast damage (Rocket/Blaster). Stuff like a Gauss/Laser tank is not really adding enough to justify the effort and extra list entries.

I hope this all makes sense. Thanks for all the feedback/interest :D
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:39:05 pm by Arthanor »

Offline Hadan

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #82 on: October 26, 2014, 07:54:00 pm »
Hello!

I was giving your mod a first spin - great work from what I can see at the end of february  :D
Maybe I encountered a bug: when assembling my first tank (alloy-hull + rockets), the game crashed to desktop without an error when the project was finished.
I use a bunch of other mods, but since nothing else was happening at the time i am afraid it was the manufacturing  :(

best regards
Hadan

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #83 on: October 26, 2014, 08:26:14 pm »
Great! I am glad you like what you are seeing so far :)

You're right about the tank. One name I forgot to change. If you want to fix it (instead of just not making the tank), go in your XAE_Tanks.rul file, line 846 and change:

Code: [Select]
    producedItems:
      STR_ALLOY_TANK_ROCKET_LAUNCHER: 1

to

Code: [Select]
    producedItems:
      STR_ALLOY_TANK_ROCKET: 1

I have tested all the tanks in a new battle, but I have not tested all the combinations of weapons + hull. I am really sorry, I hate when mods make the game crash and make you lose good progress. I need to use Falko's mod tester, I bet it would have caught that.

I hope you had a save from not too far before. It will be fixed in v1.02.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2014, 08:28:34 pm by Arthanor »

Offline Hadan

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #84 on: October 26, 2014, 09:39:13 pm »
You're right about the tank. One name I forgot to change. If you want to fix it (instead of just not making the tank), go in your XAE_Tanks.rul file, line 846 and change:
Thanks, changed it.

I hope you had a save from not too far before. It will be fixed in v1.02.
No worries, I had a save from a few hours before  ;)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #85 on: October 27, 2014, 03:10:41 am »
Bug to report: SkyGuardian hates HWP that don't hover  :(

Can't get my brand new Alloy Laser Tank off of it and support my advance to the large Snakeman scout

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #86 on: October 27, 2014, 03:35:07 am »
Damn, that's a tricky one.. I never play with HWPs (this new module is an attempt to make them more interesting for myself, mostly) so I never noticed that.

I have no knowledge of how to make maps, these were created by Aldorn for me. I will try to get a hold on him and see if he can fix it. If not, I don't know what to do. I can't even run MapView (although that might be the incentive I need to finally figure out if it's possible on Linux).

My apologies! The only way to make it work for now is to hack the ruleset and give your tank hovering capabilities by changing the movement type... :/ Not great.

Offline lordkrike

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #87 on: October 27, 2014, 03:36:28 am »
I'm having issues with this mod.  I really want to get in to it, but I have found that the effects from some of the weapons crash my game.  I have no idea exactly what's going on, since nobody else is complaining it seems like it's just me.  Either way, I'd really appreciate help, since it seems like this could help refresh XCom for me.

I installed OXC 1.0 using the Win64 archive.  I then copied the necessary files out of my old XCom install (as is tradition), and the game works just swimmingly.

However, when I install your mod and activate the DE gauss ammo, firing any DE gauss ammo crashes my game.  The weapon will fire, the projectile will travel, and just as it is supposed to play the hit animation my game crashes. 

Buckshot from the grenade launcher does something similar, but I am able to see and get through the hit animation before the game crashes.

Do you have any idea what's going on?

Edit to add: regular gauss ammo works just fine.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2014, 03:46:14 am by lordkrike »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #88 on: October 27, 2014, 04:47:30 am »
Hi lordkrike,

I was going to reply asking a bunch of questions and then decided to try it. Quick reply: It used to work for me but it doesn't anymore... I will get back to you ASAP.

The amounts of bug that a little bit more attention are bringing up is surprising me.. I hope you guys are having fun nonetheless!

EDIT: I found the errors, stuff I should not have changed in the last update. In view of these and the tank error above, everyone please download the rulesets below and use them instead of the ones present in v1.01.

EDIT2: By using the original Skyranger terrain files, it looks like the Skywarden and Skyguardian both work. I have attached a 4th ruleset update.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2014, 01:38:51 am by Arthanor »

Offline lordkrike

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Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
« Reply #89 on: October 27, 2014, 12:53:36 pm »
Hi lordkrike,

I was going to reply asking a bunch of questions and then decided to try it. Quick reply: It used to work for me but it doesn't anymore... I will get back to you ASAP.

The amounts of bug that a little bit more attention are bringing up is surprising me.. I hope you guys are having fun nonetheless!

EDIT: I found the errors, stuff I should not have changed in the last update. In view of these and the tank error above, everyone please download the rulesets below and use them instead of the ones present in v1.01.

I'm pretty sure this makes you the man.  Thank you!