OpenXcom Forum

Modding => Work In Progress => Topic started by: Arthanor on July 24, 2014, 08:23:34 pm

Title: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on July 24, 2014, 08:23:34 pm
Version 1.03 is there!

This mod was created with the aim of diversifying the game play and equipment used while going through the game. It is intended to be used whole, but it comes in many parts that all should (..!) work by themselves. This allows YOU to pick and chose which mod to use (even only one!) and design the experience YOU want. If you think something is missing, let me know!

Together, the mods combine to create a longer game in which your squads are outfitted with successive tiers of equipment, always improving. This adds more demand from your materials (ever ran out of Alien Alloys? You might!), workshops (producing the latest armour/weapon/craft) and lab (there is a LOT more to research), making the game longer and more strategically challenging.

I have found the extension of the game time to work well, smoothing the progression instead of having a series of underpowered to OP quick transitions (getting laser rifles, power/flight suits, heavy plasma, psi).

This mod is intended to be used along with the Alien Armoury Expanded.

I strongly recommend using the additional races (gazer, waspite/cover, anthropod, mechtoid), Terrain Pack, Mission Pack and YetMoreUFOs as well, since they add a lot of variety in engagements.

Although not integrated in the XCom Armoury Expanded, the following mods are fully compatible and I have enjoyed using them in my campaigns:
- GravArmors
- GuidedMissiles
- MoriartyPlasmaCannon
- Stun Grenade

This mod is build in a modular way, with a selection of rules files that build upon each others while still being mostly independent (ie rarely do you need one mod to make another one work and they will never break each other). All weapons and crafts are balanced together to ensure they are all relevant at some point in the game. The modules are:

Basic Modules:
- XCom Armoury Expanded: Adds shotgun and sniper rifle equivalents for ballistic and laser weapons, along with a reskin of laser weapons to make them all follow the same aesthetic (from the original laser rifle). Credits: Warboy for the shotgun and sniper rifle, Chiko and Aldorn for the laser weapon reskin.

- XCom Armoury Expanded Crafts: The XCom answer to new UFOs, along with a craft weapon re-balance to make air combat more challenging (Credit: Istrebitel). This adds:
+ Obstructor: An Interceptor with Alien Alloy hull, making it lighter (a bit faster) and more resistant to damage.
+ Retaliator: An further improved Interceptor using Alien Alloy and UFO Navigation. Credits: Shadow
+ Thunderstorm: A fast, one weapon “interdictor” to quickly respond to small threats. Credits: Tyran_nick
+ Raven: The first XCom craft designed using UFO Construction, from an industry prototype (which would have become what is in XCom2012, but the aliens showed up in 1999!). It outclasses the Interceptor family, requires Elerium to build but not to fly. Credits: MickTheMage
+ Sentinel: A tough, lumbering behemoth of the sky who can take damage like few others. The counterpart to the Firestorm speed. Credits: Warboy.
+ Skywarden: A Skyranger with Alien Alloy hull, making it tougher and able to sport two side doors for rapid deployment without compromising a safe landing in alien controlled space.
+ Skyguardian: The pinnacle of the Sky-transport family, responsive enough to intercept crafts with its one weapon, able to carry 16 soldiers and deploy them through two side doors and a back ramp.

Expansion Modules:
- XAE Research and Manufacture: My take on what research should be like in XCom. No more quick plasma access, or even lasers. Everything takes work. Recommended to use with other Expansion Modules to widen your weapon options, since there is no early laser rifles and heavy plasmas anymore. Credits: NeoWorm for laser and TurkishSwede for plasma research.
- XAE Alloy Ammo: Adds new ammunition for all ballistic weapons, increasing the AP damage capabilities. Credits: moriarty
- XAE Utility: Adds utility weapons (Combat Knife, Taser, Grenade Launcher, Single Shot Rocket Launcher, Rocket Propelled Grenade Launcher) to widen the selection available at the beginning of the game. A complement to the XAE Alloy Ammo, to help you survive the early game while going through the longer research tree. Credits: Ryskeliini
- XAE Gauss: Adds Gauss weapons as a complement to Laser weapons. High precision, low rate of fire, to contrast with the rapid-fire lasers.
- XAE Gauss DE Ammo: A new ammunition for Gauss weapons, made of Depleted Elerium.
- XAE Elerium Lasers: Laser weapons using an elerium lens to better focus their beams (see XCom-Interceptor), an improvement on the regular laser, on par with Gauss weapons with DE Ammo.
- XAE Advanced Weapons: Adds a Laser Blaster and Gauss Launcher to XCom's weapons, which take over the AutoCannon and Heavy Cannon roles, respectively, with tiers to follow the Laser and Gauss progression.
- XAE Elerium Missiles: A new missile type for XCom crafts, requires Elerium Bombs from the Alien Armoury Expanded.
- XAE Small Bombs: Two new bombs for the small launcher, available as soon as it is researched. An explosive bomb (damage a little higher than a grenade) and a smoke bomb. Allows the Small Launcher to replace the Grenade Launcher in mid/late-game. Still compatible with Elerium Bombs (but has to be loaded AFTER the Alien Armoury Expanded, otherwise the new bombs won't work).
- XAE Imp MediKit: An Improved MediKit which heals more hp per fatal wounds, leading to healthier operatives on the field and shorter recovery times. Requires Alien Tech research.
- XAE MagArmor: A personal armour variant surrounding the operative with a strong magnetic field to deflect incoming plasma. Also uses the MindLink Interface to boost firing accuracy and reactions.
- XAE Scout Armour: A lighter, faster personal armour variant, perfect for scouting duties.
- XAE Power Suits and Armours: Moves Power and Flying Suits to a mid-tier armour instead of the early access, almost impervious armour it is normally. A new series of Power Armour and Flying Armour is introduced, which takes over the endgame armour role.
- XAE Tanks:
+ An all new tier of tanks with alloy hulls. (Currently.. overpowered? They have the same armor as hovertanks which might be too much.. Let me know!)
+ A complete rework of tanks to be modular: Hull and Weapon are separate. You can now replace the obsolete cannon turret with a shiny new laser cannon, or put a rocket launcher on your hovertanks! (For those who want "regular tanks", an alternate ruleset will be coming soon)
+ Destroyed tank hulls are repairable, to work along the new armours and the changes made by the GravArmors mod (Strongly recommended, to be incorporated eventually) which allow infantry armour to be repaired. Tank weapons are destroyed, however, as the aliens always make sure to take them out.
- Tanks Simple: An alternate Tanks Expansion module which enables "vanilla" build and field behavior for tanks. It is simpler but does not offer the same opportunity as the XAE Tanks mod.
(NOTE: FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, THE TWO TANKS MODULES ARE NOT COMPATIBLE, CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER
- Elerium Explosives: Proxy grenades, High explosives, Rocket, AutoCannon and Heavy Cannon explosive ammo using Elerium for more damage. A ressource intensive way to get more damage on those pesky cyberdiscs.
- Attack Dogs: Dioxine's original Attack Dog, now with an improved Armoured Attack Dog variant, with more transport capability. Currently, both "hands" of the dogs are taken, preventing it from using weapons (in Nightly version). Once I figure out how to make it work, this mod will include the "Dog Warning System" (ie a motion scanner for dogs).


====Original First Post====
I just recently joined the community and it is very cool to see so much work going into this old gem of a game!

Although my first reaction upon seeing mods was: "Pff, the original was fine", I am quickly realizing the value of all the tweaks and improvements that are coming from the community. One thing that I still have issues with, however, is the variety and overlap between certain mods.

Many new weapons, many new crafts, all sort of addressing similar issues in different ways. Inspired by the Alien Armoury Expanded, I think a "XCom Armoury Expanded" would be a great addition, to pull together some of the great work that has been done here. Very much like the AAE, this mod will try to keep its content streamlined to things that are in direct continuation of the original. No fancy new weapons class as I think that deserves its own mod. Just a (fair) few new crafts, and some additional variety for wargear.

I first intend to work on the crafts, to create
- XCom_Armory_Expanded_Crafts:
  - Alloy Crafts (both Interceptors and Skyrangers)
  - SkyTransit
  - Retaliator
  - Thunderstorm
  - Raven
  - Sentinel
  - A stat rebalance to keep everything relevant (inspired by the "air combat rebalanced" mod)
  - Updated Tech Tree

The second part will be the XCom_Armory_Expanded itself, to add:
- laser sniper rifle and scatter laser (as counterparts of the new plasma weapons in the AAE)
- regular sniper rifle and shotgun (as above)
- A light stat rebalance
- Updated Tech Tree including making plasma more difficult to use.

The aim is to combine with the Alien version and provide an expanded game experience that is still very close to the original game. Other mods can then be grafted on, for example more realistic starting weapons, altogether new weapons/armors, new aliens, etc. to create a different experience.

As it is, I have a draft for the craft stat changes, as well as an idea of the new craft tech tree. Stats will be tweaked in order to obtain a progression in both fighters and transporters and to try to maintain relevance of a variety of crafts later in game. As such, it will look like:

Interceptor -> Alloy Interceptor -> Retaliator
Skyranger -> Alloy Skyranger -> Skywarden
With diminishing rent as more alien components replace earth ones, but still keeping some to represent fuel use.

As a supplement to the Retaliator, the Thunderstorm will be a fast and still rather resilient craft aimed at taking out small and deadly UFOs (ex.: the fighter from AAE) but with only one weapon hard point preventing it from taking on larger targets unless in swarms.

The Raven is included as the first human craft using entirely alien components, unlocked after UFO construction. Slower and weaker than the firestorm, it uses a "slow burning Elerium Reactor" which requires elerium and power source at construction but not later.

The Firestorm is improved by making it faster to repair because of the modular structure of saucer crafts and making it more fuel efficient.

The Sentinel changes in role to a heavy support craft, its resilience allowing it to accompany Avengers in taking out the largest UFOs.

The lightning gains the same engine as the raven and faster repairs being a saucer craft. It is aimed at intercepting small UFOs independently and delivering a small, relatively adept crew to recover the UFO. No need to send a fighter and your full skyranger crew to take down escort UFOs, so save on hangar/maintenance/rent/fuel.

The Avenger is unchanged, remaining the king of the skies. And the tech tree is attached. The hybrid crafts are their own branch, that will be relatively quick to research since they are based on well known Earth designs. The craft themselves will also be quick to manufacture, to represent the delivery of ready made earth parts to the workshop, XCom only having to work on the alien components. Conversely, the late-game 100% UFO based crafts will take much longer to research and manufacture.

_________________________________________
                  ======>NEWS<======
_________________________________________
Current: Version 1.03 of the mod is now available! (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2675.msg35617#msg35617) Armoured Attack Dogs!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 25, 2014, 02:11:04 am
I'll certainly be watching this thread...

Dibs on adding new stuff to the Final Mod Pack! :D
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 02:44:26 am
Ha! That monster of a mod isn't big enough yet? :P

You may plunder this one happily once it is done! It's made to be used (and abused?)!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on July 25, 2014, 07:40:07 am
Sounds very neat. I'll keep a close eye on this and try it out once you have a download up.

But the Raven is sketchy. Canonly, the Raven is the most advanced fighter craft humanity has to offer. I've seen two mods now that change the Raven. While this may be a bunch o' hooey due to UFO and 2012 being in different timelines, it's still a little awkward to see the Raven with an elerium engine.

But hey, that's just my opinion. You do what you wish. I'm sure this will turn out great.

Any plans for HWP or just crafts and weapons?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 09:02:01 am
Sounds very neat. I'll keep a close eye on this and try it out once you have a download up.

But the Raven is sketchy. Canonly, the Raven is the most advanced fighter craft humanity has to offer. I've seen two mods now that change the Raven. While this may be a bunch o' hooey due to UFO and 2012 being in different timelines, it's still a little awkward to see the Raven with an elerium engine.

But hey, that's just my opinion. You do what you wish. I'm sure this will turn out great.

Any plans for HWP or just crafts and weapons?
Awesome! Thanks for the info. One of the reason I am so enthusiastic about OpenXCom is that I have no computer capable of running the new game ;) I had no clue about the Raven, it just looks so much better than the interceptor based crafts that it needed its own high tech place (which means using at least some alien components).

Maybe whoever developed the Raven from human tech in XCom-2012 is actually a scientist hired by XCom in this original, who will work on and name this Raven! As it is, the Raven uses UFO Power sources to be built, but does not use Elerium as fuel. The rationale being that it is a slow burning, safe, prototype engine since the Raven is the first human craft based on Alien propulsion.

As such, it is outclassed in almost every way (especially speed) by the Firestorm, the only exception being fuel economy. It sort of keeps the high tech feel of the Raven and its place relative to the Firestorm. It also makes the Raven better than Interceptors, the regular planes of 1999, which the Raven as a 2012 plane would be. It just happened to be developed differently since the UFOs came early ;)

As for plans, currently the XCom Armoury Expanded aims mostly at being a counterpart to the Alien Armoury Expanded. Which means new crafts and a few new weapons, to keep everything in parallel.

The new UFOs can be quite challenging if everything is kept vanilla, so more crafts for XCom is relevant (it also slows down progression a bit through research, restoring the challenge, and gives something for the engineers to build in the early game: new interceptors for your new bases).

There are only a few new weapons I am considering. One is Alien Alloy ammo (if we use it for armor and crafts, it makes sense to use it for weapons too!).  Then conventional and laser versions of the new plasma weapons introduced in the Alien Armoury. If they can have a plasma sniper rifle, there is no reason why XCom can't have a laser sniper rifle (and then steal the plasma one, of course!).

I think further weapons should be kept to different mods. I prefer modular mods so each player can create their own perfect game, rather that the one mod to rule them all. That already exists any ways, in the Final Mod Pack, where maybe some of this work will end up.

Ouf.. I wrote more than I expected.. The main reason I came online was..: I have version 0.5 of the armory ready!! By that I mean I got all the crafts side of the mod done. There is now a few new research projects available, as shown in the first post, and the crafts are tweaked so they don't all overlap as a "next step up from Interceptors". It was roughly tested using a save game I had and going through the research to unlock everything, then build everything. I happened to have plasma beams already and the destruction that can be wrought by just one retaliator, one raven and one sentinel is beautiful!! There might be some tweaking of stats to do though.

I strongly suggest using this mod along with the Alien Armoury Expanded as they are intended to be counterparts. To go along with the more complex craft research tree I also made the "Plasma Needs Elerium Expanded" mod, which puts constraints on plasma research to slow down the squad weapons progression to be more in line with the crafts.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on July 25, 2014, 04:40:46 pm
Awesome! Thanks for the info. One of the reason I am so enthusiastic about OpenXCom is that I have no computer capable of running the new game ;) I had no clue about the Raven, it just looks so much better than the interceptor based crafts that it needed its own high tech place (which means using at least some alien components).

Maybe whoever developed the Raven from human tech in XCom-2012 is actually a scientist hired by XCom in this original, who will work on and name this Raven! As it is, the Raven uses UFO Power sources to be built, but does not use Elerium as fuel. The rationale being that it is a slow burning, safe, prototype engine since the Raven is the first human craft based on Alien propulsion.

As such, it is outclassed in almost every way (especially speed) by the Firestorm, the only exception being fuel economy. It sort of keeps the high tech feel of the Raven and its place relative to the Firestorm. It also makes the Raven better than Interceptors, the regular planes of 1999, which the Raven as a 2012 plane would be. It just happened to be developed differently since the UFOs came early ;)

As for plans, currently the XCom Armoury Expanded aims mostly at being a counterpart to the Alien Armoury Expanded. Which means new crafts and a few new weapons, to keep everything in parallel.

The new UFOs can be quite challenging if everything is kept vanilla, so more crafts for XCom is relevant (it also slows down progression a bit through research, restoring the challenge, and gives something for the engineers to build in the early game: new interceptors for your new bases).

There are only a few new weapons I am considering. One is Alien Alloy ammo (if we use it for armor and crafts, it makes sense to use it for weapons too!).  Then conventional and laser versions of the new plasma weapons introduced in the Alien Armoury. If they can have a plasma sniper rifle, there is no reason why XCom can't have a laser sniper rifle (and then steal the plasma one, of course!).

I think further weapons should be kept to different mods. I prefer modular mods so each player can create their own perfect game, rather that the one mod to rule them all. That already exists any ways, in the Final Mod Pack, where maybe some of this work will end up.

Ouf.. I wrote more than I expected.. The main reason I came online was..: I have version 0.5 of the armory ready!! By that I mean I got all the crafts side of the mod done. There is now a few new research projects available, as shown in the first post, and the crafts are tweaked so they don't all overlap as a "next step up from Interceptors". It was roughly tested using a save game I had and going through the research to unlock everything, then build everything. I happened to have plasma beams already and the destruction that can be wrought by just one retaliator, one raven and one sentinel is beautiful!! There might be some tweaking of stats to do though.

I strongly suggest using this mod along with the Alien Armoury Expanded as they are intended to be counterparts. To go along with the more complex craft research tree I also made the "Plasma Needs Elerium Expanded" mod, which puts constraints on plasma research to slow down the squad weapons progression to be more in line with the crafts.

Very nice explanation. I know you have good intentions.

And the reason why I asked if you were making a HWP part is because I was planning on making a HWP mod pack and I don't want it to conflict with anything :P

But this looks very good. I will try it out in a new save just to see how it works. I'll play around with it for a few hours and tell you how I feel.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 05:43:30 pm
Awesome, thank you! I am looking forward to the feedback.

HWP have always seemed like such a waste to me, except maybe at the beginning for a rocket one and base defense where they don't really cost you anything. Otherwise, I'd much rather take 4 rookies that I hope to train into super-soldiers. Even if only one makes it, it was worth not having the HWP. So that means: LOTS of space for new stuff!!

My view of mods is that we should try to keep them compatible but separate. As much as the "Final Mod Pack" looks awesome, it is too much for me to take in at once. I'd rather go through and enable the 60 mods individually (or the 59 I want and leave off the 1 I don't), knowing that the modders talked to each others to make compatible mods.

If you want to "latch on" the XCom Armoury Expanded, I would be very happy to collaborate. Regarding HWP, there are already opportunities with the new code in this mode. One could make HWPs with alien alloy hulls after researching Allow Airframes and maybe more accurate and even sturdier HWPs once Hybrid crafts is researched.

Another thing that could be really cool is a "learning HWP", which would address their main issue as far as I am concerned: They don't improve so it becomes much more efficient to bring 4 trained soldiers than one HWP. Having mind controlled HWPs that can actually progress would be awesome. It could be unlocked through a combination of Alien Entertainment (as a high tech interface) + Sectopod autopsy (the aliens' equivalent platform) + Psi Lab (the facility from where it would be controlled). Give it some cool weapons (AoE Plasma cannon? High RoF Laser?), potential to hover and now we're talking!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on July 25, 2014, 05:55:47 pm
Awesome, thank you! I am looking forward to the feedback.

No problem. Starting test-playthrough now.

HWP have always seemed like such a waste to me, except maybe at the beginning for a rocket one and base defense where they don't really cost you anything. Otherwise, I'd much rather take 4 rookies that I hope to train into super-soldiers. Even if only one makes it, it was worth not having the HWP. So that means: LOTS of space for new stuff!!
While I beg to differ, you do have a few good points. At first I was skeptical about HWP, but now I've come to love them.

A lot.

There are a handful of mods that are HWP that take up one space and are essentially super soldiers. (IIRC there is a grand total of 2)

If you want to "latch on" the XCom Armoury Expanded, I would be very happy to collaborate. Regarding HWP, there are already opportunities with the new code in this mode. One could make HWPs with alien alloy hulls after researching Allow Airframes and maybe more accurate and even sturdier HWPs once Hybrid crafts is researched.

Perfect. I wanted to make a line of Alloy Tanks that acted as a buffer for normal HWP and the Hover HWP.

Another thing that could be really cool is a "learning HWP", which would address their main issue as far as I am concerned: They don't improve so it becomes much more efficient to bring 4 trained soldiers than one HWP. Having mind controlled HWPs that can actually progress would be awesome. It could be unlocked through a combination of Alien Entertainment (as a high tech interface) + Sectopod autopsy (the aliens' equivalent platform) + Psi Lab (the facility from where it would be controlled). Give it some cool weapons (AoE Plasma cannon? High RoF Laser?), potential to hover and now we're talking!
There are some good ideas here, but most are probably out of my league. I'm not even sure if you can have a AoE Plasma Cannon. But I am working on a High RoF Laser Tank that acts as an advanced counterpart to the Minigun tank from SolariusScorch's Minigun mod. There is a mod out there that allows you to make XCOM Sectopods, and one where you can produce XCOM Cyberdisks. Both of which I am considering, and probably will, add into this pack of mine.

I will send you a small "Checklist" of things that I want to add in via PM.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on July 25, 2014, 07:45:06 pm
Only problem encountered so far: Retaliator uses the Raven's Ufopaedia picture.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 08:26:29 pm
Ah! Damn.. I tested each as they got implemented but did not notice that the retaliator took over the raven picture.. I guess it makes sense since it originally also took over the in-base graphics.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on July 25, 2014, 08:31:21 pm
Ah! Damn.. I tested each as they got implemented but did not notice that the retaliator took over the raven picture.. I guess it makes sense since it originally also took over the in-base graphics.
No other troubles found. It seems pretty solid so far. Having fun with the new skyrangers.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 08:44:39 pm
The new skyrangers are pretty cool. The reduction in rent with the new crafts is a godsend if you want to have radar and interception coverage worldwide before getting firestorms. And 16 troops within one carrier is pretty nifty. I wish there were more exits though, but apparently that was a really bad idea.

The picture references for the Retaliator and Raven were indeed the same (much like.. all other file references. One of these mods must be based on the other!). I changed both to new, unique names, so hopefully it works now. I made a new archive, even though there are only minor changes in the .rul file.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Recruit69 on July 25, 2014, 09:11:49 pm
Very impressive re your crafts.

Also impressive, re restriction of easy plasma guns research.

Extra weapons? More?? There is alot of weapons curently in Xcom and Final Mod pack which is getting a bit excessive i think.

So i am curious to see how you plan to incorporate the weapons without making it useless to the point it'll get ignored/not used, given the vast number of weapons available.

Meanwhile, i will download and give it a go and let you know what i think.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 25, 2014, 09:30:30 pm
Thanks! But really, none of these crafts are my work. The only thing I am doing is getting them all together into a coherent whole that fits neatly into an expanded research tree, trying to keep everything relevant.

I have to give the following credits for the crafts:
Alloy Interceptor and Skyranger: The Old One
(Note: Those need to be renamed as the strings overflow their space in the game. Suggestions are welcome)
Retaliator: Shadow
Thunderstorm: Tyran_nick
Raven: MickTheMage
Sentinel: Warboy1982
Skywarden (as a renamed SkyTransit): civilian

Other inspiration/things that will be added in the future:
Craft/Craft weapons balance: Istrebitel
Allow Ammunition: moriarty
Plasma needs Elerium: TurkishSwede

As I mentioned in a previous post, there will only be few weapons to be included in the XCom Armoury Expanded and most of those already exist. Those are the conventional and laser equivalent of the plasma caster and sniper rifle along with alloy ammunition for the basic conventional weapons.

The new plasma weapons in the Alien Armoury Expanded need their conventional and laser counterparts, otherwise it looks stupid. If aliens can come up with a shotgun and sniper rifle, so can we! Especially as those are already common Earth weapons.

Alloy ammo is just because it makes too much sense to use it for basic weapons as well as crafts and armor for a first step upgrade from Earth tech.

I am very much interested by the recently posted laser research mod by NeoWorm and a version of it will likely make it into the recommended mods along with the plasma one. This is intended to free up some time in the early game during which alloy ammo can be used.

With the complete mod and recommended ones, one would probably first research alloys, unlock low rent alloy crafts, personal armor and alloy ammo. Then pursue hybrid crafts and lasers together, as the next step up in tech, then UFO based crafts and plasma as end game tech.

The mod is meant to add just a few things to go along the Alien Armoury expanded (and slow down XCom's progression since the alien also retain lower grade weapons longer with the Armoury). The experience should stay streamlined (not a million new things, just a few simple ones) and close to the original.

Hopefully, other mods will then come and graft themselves on top of this one, to delve into whichever area their author wishes to develop. One such example being XCOMFan419's MWP mod. MWPs are fine (if a bit underpowered) in the original and there is enough variety that nothing feels outright overlooked/missing. There is still lots of space to expand on though, which is what he will do.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Aldorn on July 26, 2014, 11:36:26 am
Regarding laser weapons, eventually have a look at this (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2359.msg23695#msg23695)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2014, 03:17:00 pm
Awesome! There are surprisingly few mods for laser weapons. Lots for conventional ones and some for plasma, but no love for lasers..? They are by far my favorite weapons.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2014, 03:43:21 pm
Awesome! There are surprisingly few mods for laser weapons. Lots for conventional ones and some for plasma, but no love for lasers..? They are by far my favorite weapons.

They're so good, they don't need mods. :D
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2014, 03:48:36 pm
haha well, that might be right. Hopefully the laser sniper rifle and scatter laser find some takers. I'll use 'em for sure!

With the new laser and plasma research mods, plus an added emphasis for alien alloy, it should make the game pretty cool.

I'm thinking of at least recommending your jump armor (the one made from the floaters), as it makes sniper rifles much easier to use. In my few games, my dedicated sharpshooter is spending so long getting in position (usually clearing a building while trying to get on its roof) that the rest of the squad has had time to finish off all the aliens before I get to snipe anything :( Being able to just float up would make a huge difference (and might be a bit OP, but I'm thinking of adjusting aimed shots so you can only get one, and floating armor to reduce the soldier's accuracy since armor can impact stats).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 26, 2014, 04:00:30 pm
I'm thinking of at least recommending your jump armor (the one made from the floaters), as it makes sniper rifles much easier to use.

I would suggest using Clownagent's Grav Armour mod (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2465.0) instead. It includes my Jump Armour, but also a Grav Module which is just a flying backpack and is available before the Alien Alloys are researched. It also uses IMHO better sprites, more consistent with the Personal Armour design, but if you want the green version, use the Jump Armour graphics.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 26, 2014, 06:49:20 pm
Awesome suggestion! I haven't mined the forums for all the gems lying there, only the mod website (and even that probably not entirely).

I will certainly use the grav armor, it looks like a great mod! Probably leave it as is and add it to the list of suggested mods.

Thank you!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 30, 2014, 05:06:07 am
Alright! A new version of the XCom Armoury Expanded that includes all the weapons.

Recommended mods:
- Alien Armoury Expanded
- Grav Armors
- Combat knife
- Plasma Needs Elerium Expanded (from this post above)
- Laser tech tweak, tank first (from this forum)
- Quickdraw mode A (uses belt slots)

I have an issue in the mod, where the shotgun uses some sprites from the sniper rifle (That doesn't happen in the shotgun mod I took, but I don't know why it happens here). And there is another issue in the sniper rifle mod where the sprites are not displayed properly, which is still present in this one. If anyone has an idea how to make them work, I'd be VERY happy to learn.

Let me know how it goes,
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 30, 2014, 06:16:25 am
AH! Found it! I just realized that there needs to be a gap between the IDs you give to different handobs, otherwise they overwrite each others. (8, I guess, for the 8 directions for which handobs are created).

Here is version 7.1, for which the shotgun works perfectly. The sniper rifle is still a bit wonky, not sure why...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Aldorn on July 30, 2014, 08:02:29 am
AH! Found it! I just realized that there needs to be a gap between the IDs you give to different handobs, otherwise they overwrite each others. (8, I guess, for the 8 directions for which handobs are created).

8 for handobs, 35 for bulletsprites

To not forget it, I always add it as comment

Example
# Toxigun
items:
...
  - type: STR_TOXIGUN
    bigSprite: 706
    floorSprite: 706
    handSprite: 716 #IncOf8
    bulletSprite: 20 #20x35=700
    fireSound: 706
  - type: STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK
    bigSprite: 707
    floorSprite: 707
    hitSound: 19
    hitAnimation: 707
...

extraSprites:
...
# Toxigun
  - type: BIGOBS.PCK
    files:
      706: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/Toxigun_BIGOBS.PNG
      707: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/ToxigunFlask_BIGOBS.PNG
  - type: FLOOROB.PCK
    files:
      706: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/Toxigun_FLOOROB.PNG
      707: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/ToxigunFlask_FLOOROB.PNG
  - type: HANDOB.PCK
    width: 256
    height: 40
    subX: 32
    subY: 40
    files:
      #IncOf8
      716: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/Toxigun_HANDOB.PNG
  - type: Projectiles
    height: 3
    width: 105
    subX: 3
    subY: 3
    files:
      #IncOf35
      700: Resources/HellMod/Weapons/Plasma/Toxigun_BulletSprite.PNG
...

It is important when you are building a big mod as FMP and others

Here is version 7.1, for which the shotgun works perfectly. The sniper rifle is still a bit wonky, not sure why...
Nice dude

Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 30, 2014, 08:21:21 am
8 for handobs, 35 for bulletsprites

To not forget it, I always add it as comment

[...]

It is important when you are building a big mod as FMP and others

Thank you for the info! When your source of information on "how to build a mod" is other people's mods with no instructions on how to do it, extracting all the information is tricky. I'm glad to have figured it out and now have the hypothesis confirmed! The comment tip is good too. I had seen that comment but did not know what it meant...

You also gave me some extra info on how to approach the sniper rifle bullet issue. There is one included in the mod, but I don't as of now understand how the bullet sprite works.

Side note: still no idea why the sniper rifle looks weird in the battlescape. That one is annoying!
Side note2: Build 0.71 had a bad reference for alloy shotgun shells bigob, which caused the game to crash upon entering the inventory screen, and several other minor bugs. I have attached version 0.72 and will remove the link to 0.71 from above.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Aldorn on July 30, 2014, 08:42:19 am
Thank you for the info! When your source of information on "how to build a mod" is other people's mods with no instructions on how to do it, extracting all the information is tricky. I'm glad to have figured it out and now have the hypothesis confirmed! The comment tip is good too. I had seen that comment but did not know what it meant...
Many here are qualified to answer your questions and are ready for, but you are right, it is some sport to start modding

If not already the case, you should have this (https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ruleset_Reference_%28OpenXcom%29#Items) as shortcut, with a bit of experience, you will find many info

You also gave me some extra info on how to approach the sniper rifle bullet issue. There is one included in the mod, but I don't as of now understand how the bullet sprite works.
Does it work or not ?

Ran seems to be an expert  8), you should perhaps ask him on this thread (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2152.msg22769#msg22769)


Side note: still no idea why the sniper rifle looks weird in the battlescape. That one is annoying!
Could you post a screen shot so that we don't have to install and test your mod for now ?

Handobs are very difficult to design : size, perspective, position vs soldier, and also removing some pixels to uncover soldiers right hand on any position not doing this automatically...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on July 30, 2014, 09:22:04 am
There is so much information out there, sometimes just under your nose, and yet if you don't realize it is there, it might as well not be. Thank you very much for bringing this ressource to my attention. It will be very useful!

I will look a little bit more into my issues. Now that I know what the properties of different things can be, I can look for what might be missing.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2014, 01:05:33 am
Well, it's been quiet over here, but that's only because I have been busy. Here comes the XCom Armoury Expanded, version 0.8!!

New stuff:
- Craft and craft weapons stats tweaks: The interceptor and starting weapons are now weaker, better develop new tech! Alloy Interceptor + Alloy Cannon bring things close to previous levels, but missiles are also less reliable.

- New Craft Weapon: Elerium Rocket
Requires Elerium Bombs for small launcher, either with the mod, or as part of an further expanded Alien Armoury Expanded. An elerium intensive craft weapon to take out big UFOs, but not quite as intensive as the Fusion Launcher. Works well to bridge the gap between laser cannons, plasma beams and fusion launchers.

- ListOrder fixed for all entries. If you find something out of place, let me know!

- Increased Research Tree complexity. Getting lasers is no longer a quick thing to do, you have time to "enjoy" conventional weapons and alloy ammo. Research tree added within the mod zip file in case you get lost.

- A brand new extra ruleset containing "utility" weapons (taken from Ryskelinii's GunsNGadgets mod, but with combined sprites so it works under unix systems).

- Lasers now require Alien Alloy to be built (explaining why humans did not have them to begin with.. few weeks research by a few scientists? Weapons manufacturers would have developed it already!)

Needed stuff:
- Sprites for the alloy ammo (pistol, shotgun, rifle, sniper rifle, Heavy Cannon, AutoCannon)

- Sprites for the Elerium Rockets

Recommended Mods:
- Alien Armoury Expanded
- Elerium Bombs (WARNING: not compatible with the Alien Armoury as of now, needs fixing by adding a 4th loadout in the Elerium Bomb mod, or adding the bombs to the Armoury)
- Combat knife
- Grav Armours
- Laser Tech Tweaks: Tank First
- Moriarty's Plasma Cannon
- Plasma needs Elerium (Expanded version, to go with the Alien Armoury)
- Quickdraw A (To make pistols/knifes more relevant, plus quick access to more ammo for utility weapons)
- Stun Grenade
- Your favorite variety of new races/maps to expand the experience. The game/research now takes longer, variety is great.

Enjoy! And please let me know what you think of it!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 06, 2014, 01:19:56 am
- Quickdraw A (To make pistols/knifes more relevant, plus quick access to more ammo for utility weapons)
I recommend Extra Pockets (https://www.openxcom.com/mod/extra-pockets) instead. Much more versatile.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2014, 06:52:38 am
I saw that one too, but it's too much of a change for me compared to the original. I like the quick draw mod for how it makes single shot weapons and emergency pistol shooting worthwhile. The other one.. emergency rifle?! pockets everywhere?

It definitely does get the job done, if not better, but it's not quite the job I want done. I just want something that makes carrying a pistol meaningful, which the quickdraw mod (A, since it doesn't add any storage, just adds a quick-access slot), does perfectly.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 06, 2014, 07:03:46 am
- New Craft Weapon: Elerium Rocket
Requires Elerium Bombs for small launcher, either with the mod, or as part of an further expanded Alien Armoury Expanded. An elerium intensive craft weapon to take out big UFOs, but not quite as intensive as the Fusion Launcher. Works well to bridge the gap between laser cannons, plasma beams and fusion launchers.

I think I smell the Alenium Torpedo from Xenonauts.

But that's none of my business  :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2014, 07:16:50 am
haha! That's funny. I guess it shows that it is not that innovative of a concept.

I actually came up with it when playing through with the XAE, after having researched laser cannons but when realizing that they were not quite up to the task against larger UFOs. Given that I also use Elerium bombs (and consider the small launcher as a kind of prequel to the blaster launcher), it seemed logical to have an elerium rocket before you get the fusion bomb and plasma cannon/beam.

Great minds think alike, eh? Or more likely, given the same question, different people are likely to come up with the same answer.

I haven't tried the Elerium Rockets yet, but I think they address a need between the reworked plasma cannon by Moriarty, the laser cannon and the fusion bomb, being cheaper (elerium-wise) than fusion bombs, but longer range and more damaging than the other two, and accessible relatively early to give you a chance to intercept larger UFOs.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 06, 2014, 07:45:47 pm
A quick question to the experienced modders before I start messing around in my code:

Is it possible to define the maxRange for different ammunitions? I have only seem it used for the weapon itself, but I'd like to tweak the shotgun provided in the XAE. Like having a buckshot with a low maxrange, and then a single slug for higher single hit damage (but lower than total buckshot damage) and a higher maxrange. Can I just define the property in the clip instead of the weapon?

Thanks!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 07, 2014, 10:17:50 pm
I saw that one too, but it's too much of a change for me compared to the original. I like the quick draw mod for how it makes single shot weapons and emergency pistol shooting worthwhile. The other one.. emergency rifle?! pockets everywhere?

It definitely does get the job done, if not better, but it's not quite the job I want done. I just want something that makes carrying a pistol meaningful, which the quickdraw mod (A, since it doesn't add any storage, just adds a quick-access slot), does perfectly.
Funny you should say that...

(https://i.imgur.com/w1NAZRC.jpg)

This is what a modern day Close-Support Sapper of the Royal Engineers carry. Per soldier.

Just in 1982 this is what a Royal Marine Commando carried during the Falklands Conflict

(https://i.imgur.com/Rzku3rp.jpg)

So yes, pockets should be everywhere if they even want to compete with a modern soldier. Or hell, a soldier from the 80's.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: ivandogovich on August 07, 2014, 10:30:21 pm
Hehe.... I love the pictures.  ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Falko on August 07, 2014, 11:06:57 pm
i always thought more of a swat team like agent not a soldier
they fly directly to the place they fight

ok i can accepts that panicky xcom soldiers can use a second pair of underwear :)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 12:18:49 am
Yeah.. that's a lot of stuff. But honestly, I already don't use all the vanilla pockets because of weight constraints on my soldiers. Usually it's belt plus maybe something in the backpack, and a weapon, obviously.

The other thing is, although I like to expand the original, I also like to keep the game close to the original. If you give your soldiers that much more options (and a quickdraw 2nd rifle?!) and somehow manage to take advantage of it, then the aliens need something too, because they are balanced against a soldier with limited options.

I sympathize with the poor sectoid carrying his heavy plasma and one grenade.. It's just not fair (and I don't think the AI is built around taking advantage of more options either, so even if you give them more, it doesn't seem like they would really take advantage of it.. So the alternative is to make them stronger/better shots, which I don't want).

I agree with Falko: I see XCom agents as specialists that fly in, fast and deadly, to contain the situation quickly. They don't need food, they don't need multiple grenades, they can't be heavy because the fight has to be won quickly. Otherwise the aliens kill all the civilians, the crashed UFO gets rescued by another (bigger) one, or the aliens escape into the wild and will cause problems later.

Also, from the lack of answers, I guess nobody knows if you can define range parameters on clips instead of weapons?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: XCOMFan419 on August 08, 2014, 12:45:35 am
Whatever. It's your mod. Don't let me dictate it.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Solarius Scorch on August 08, 2014, 12:49:32 am
I also view X-Com agents as more of secret service personnel than professional soldiers, judging from their starting stats and later development. I guess mercenaries with actual military background cannot be trusted enough or something.

And since they don't have much military practice, I guess they're not that good in using all this pro stuff... :)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 08, 2014, 12:54:10 am
@XCOMFan419
No worries ;)

Just to point out that the listed mods are just the "Recommended Mods" to play with this one. None of them are necessary. They are just the ones I enjoy with it as it makes what I consider "the optimal experience". My mod might be balanced around some of it (especially regarding pistols, they become more useful with QuickDraw), but it's meant to be used with whichever mod YOU like. You can very well use the XAE with the Extra Pockets mod instead of the QuickDraw one, or with neither one of them.

I know mods come from "modifications", but I like mine to also be "modular". It is not an all inclusive mod and does not depend on anything from another mod either. (except for Elerium rockets, which you just won't have if you don't have Elerium bombs, but it won't crash or anything, the research will just never become available).

You can use this mod with whatever you like. Extra Races, other mods that grant new fancy weapons, anything! Use any other mods you enjoy to create your preferred experience. Hopefully, you use this one as well ;)

@Solarius: Haha, the starting stats certainly don't make them look like pros.. I'd be fine with hitting half thetime, IF the other half didn't go straight in the back of another soldier or a civilian most of the time.. Or right at the feet of my soldier if using explosives...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Dioxine on August 09, 2014, 12:22:19 am
@Clip-dependant ranges: No, you can't. At least per 27.07 build.

@QuickCheatSlot: I have very strong feelings towards than one, pretty much summed in how I've named it. 4 TU cost of grabbing a gun from your belt is already very low, considering how one step costs 4 TU, and dropping an item - which is as difficult as opening your hand - costs 2 TU. Lo and behold, a mod that lets you unholster a gun for 0 TU. Instantly. Come on. You need to rethink your strategy, not create cheaty mods.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 09, 2014, 05:24:27 am
Regarding clips: that's too bad. I'll drop it in the suggestion forum as I think it would be a good addition.

QuickCheatSlots: you are probably right, at least 2 TUs would be warranted and the vanilla's 4 is probably not outlandish. I am just looking for something to make pistols more attractive and not having the two-handed requirement isn't quite enough. The QuickDraw was a bit better but you are right that it isn't quite going the right way. I'm wary of increasing stats, since that makes it compete with the rifle, so... I don't know what to do.. As I said, the "extra pockets mod is just crazy with its rifle QuickDraw so at least that's not what I recommend.

What do you suggest?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Dioxine on August 10, 2014, 01:20:42 pm
Making sure that knife is fast/strong enough so even after using 4TU to draw it's still worthwile? Pistol (untweaked) is already the best vanilla firearm, so I don't quite get what do you mean by "increasing its viability" :)

About clips: I agree, it could definitely be useful - ex. if you want to have a really well balanced shotgun which fires both shot and solid slugs.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 10, 2014, 03:50:30 pm
I'll add something about clips in the suggestion section.

Pistol: really? My experience has always been: ditch startup weapons ASAP, get laser rifles, get heavy plasma. Add one/two rocket/blaster launchers. I need to look at weapon stats again I guess, but I never saw pistols described as the best weapons.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Falko on August 10, 2014, 04:27:55 pm
take a look here https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Rifle_vs_Pistol
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on August 10, 2014, 05:27:57 pm
Those weapon analysis pages are really neat (but some contradict others, interestingly enough). I guess I have a bias from my experience playing the game as a kid and looking at the wimpy stats of pistols. I made up my mind then and never looked back at them.

I will likely start using a "pistol + grenade" loadout on some of my scouts (with a knife on the belt), and move 2 rifles to my breachers (all shotguns works well in the UFO, but it's pretty useless on the way to the UFO, unless you have to clear a house that you don't want to blow up).

I use (and, with the XAE, recommend using) a mod that flips the laser progression around to represent the miniaturization challenge as the main laser issue, not power. Doing that means the laser pistol comes after the (usually better) laser rifle. But given that my plasma pistol becomes available first (I also use a mod making the plasma progression follow the vanilla laser model: pistol->rifle->heavy), I guess 2/3 of my pistols are ok. Maybe I'll give pistols a maxrange, but compensate with some boost in accuracy (especially aimed).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2014, 07:38:05 am
*Picks up a broom and gets rid of cobwebs*

Well, it's been quiet here, but it's not dead! I have been working on version 0.9, which should achieve pretty much everything I had originally setup to do, and more!

One of the things I am working on is (personal) armour progression. Power suits (and flying suits, really) are much too easy to obtain in the vanilla game, so they will be delayed in the XAE Research tree. Along with this, I also never quite liked the look of it, so I thought, why not make a new one? Can't be that hard..! Oh..

Well, the new armour is almost done! It is mostly a recolor of TftD ion armour, since that one looked good as an endgame suit and I did not want to draw a whole sprite sheet (nor could I).


But for one bug I cannot figure out :( If anyone more knowledgeable than me with armours could look at the mod attached and tell me why I can't seem to get my soldiers to be drawn with the proper armour on. I have set the movementType attribute properly, I think, but when looking at my soldiers in the battlescape, it's all wrong. It seems like half the soldiers in Power Armour are drawn with Flying Armor, while all the soldiers with Flying Armor are drawn with Power Armor... Sharing a PCK or each having their own makes no difference..

Thanks in advance to whoever finds what's happening! I feel like I should offer a reward ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Falko on October 12, 2014, 09:40:19 am
my guess: fying armor can not have a female torso - would explain the 50:50 ratio
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: NoelBuddy on October 12, 2014, 05:26:46 pm
Falco's on the right track, you have the flying suit as the female torso so if I'm correct all of the PAs that look like flying suits are all female soldiers.  (This is news to me that PA uses female sprites.) The flying armor doesn't use the female torso at all which is why you are getting none.  You'll need two sprite sheets like these(see attached) sorry for the .gif format I'm comfortable working with it and after going thru so much trouble figuring out the pallet for them I haven't gone on to figure out .pngs yet.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2014, 05:59:51 pm
You know, I had thought about splitting the sheets like that, but when I looked at the power and flight suits, they share a sprite sheet, so I was thinking it must be doable. That's so weird... How do the suits work then?? And they do work, even the new sprite sheets from the Grav Armor mod (or the recolored ones I made) only have a regular and a flying torso, no genders. That's odd..

Oh well... Thanks for confirming my suspicion on the "hack" to fix it and explaining what's happening regarding genders. It works fine! Now I can move on! :D

XCom Armoury Expanded v0.9 coming up soon!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: NoelBuddy on October 12, 2014, 06:16:22 pm
Yeah, something is happening under the hood to make the shared sprites work in the default armors.  This works tho, at the small expense of an extra file and a couple extra lines in the ruleset.

The part that still doesn't make any sense to me is why none of the flying armors used the alternate torso.  If all added armors are treated the same then there should have been some, if flying armor is treated different then I am not sure how you triggered the alternate behavior... and for that matter it would seem you triggered the PAs alternate behavior(using only the first set of torsos) not the flying armor's(which would only use the second set of torsos).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Arthanor on October 12, 2014, 06:22:33 pm
Yes, the behaviour is really odd. There is definitely something hidden in the code somewhere, further than the UFOPaedia seems to imply by saying "movementType" dictates the offset for flying armours. Although it's nice to be able to have gendered flying armours, Idon't think I'll do it though. In the heavier armours, it would be difficult to distinguish gender (unless you play 40k..!)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded
Post by: Falko on October 12, 2014, 07:43:41 pm
see
https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/blob/master/src/Battlescape/UnitSprite.cpp#L305
Code: [Select]
if (_unit->getArmor()->getType() == "STR_POWER_SUIT_UC")
{
torso = _unitSurface->getFrame(maleTorso + unitDir);
}
else if (_unit->getArmor()->getType() == "STR_FLYING_SUIT_UC")
{
torso = _unitSurface->getFrame(femaleTorso + unitDir);
}
only soldier armors with the name STR_POWER_SUIT_UC and STR_FLYING_SUIT_UC have the same torso for both gender i assume because in the original data the graphisc was put into one pck file so the devs made a special exception for these names
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 17, 2014, 04:15:39 pm
Well, at long last, I have a product I am happy enough with to release! Here is the XCom Armoury Expanded v1.0!

All the details are in the first post, but here are a few:Download it now!
Mod Rulesets and Resources (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11652)
Expansion Modules Resources (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11653)
(Sorry, had to split the zip in two because of size limits per uploads)

Upcoming content:
- XAE Attack Dogs: And expansion on the Attack Dog mod by Dioxine, adding two tiers of armoured dogs, corresponding to Personal Armour and Power Suit protection level.
- XAE Melee: Ever thought of slashing/smashing some aliens to bits? This module will give you all the tools you need to do so: Combat Knife, Alloy Knife, Alloy Sword, Laser Sword, Plasma Sword and Two-settings Elerium Mace.
- XAE HWP: My take on what HWPs should have been: modular engines of destruction. Will add Alien Alloy hulls for ground tanks, organize all the vanilla tanks and those present in the XAE mods and implement a new manufacturing system for HWPs. If I can manage to make the nightly work, dual weapons are also to be expected.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 22, 2014, 06:55:09 pm
I'm really liking this so far, though I had to forfeit my first terror mission because ballistic guns just do not work on cyberdiscs :P

I've also found a few possible oopsies:
- Mag Armor and Scout Armor have UFOpaedia entries from the very start, obviously way before you've researched them.
- Reproduction Pod Disassembly requires Reproduction Pod... Disassembly.  Not the pod itself but its disassembly, so it's probably not possible to actually do.
- Recoveries for the plasma rifle clip and heavy plasma clip don't actually require said clips (plasma pistol clip recovery does correctly uses up its clips), so I think I can get infinite Elerium from them.

I'll let you know of any more that I find.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 22, 2014, 07:34:01 pm
Thanks for the feedback! You're my first user I think! I am sorry to hear about the terror missions. I tend to use large rockets, heavy cannons and grenade launchers liberally (One rocket launchers and 8 rockets for a terror, 2x Heavy Cannons with 2 HE Ammos, 1 Grenade Launcher with ~6 HE grenades) so it worked for me in the early game.

Thinking about it, I nerfed the grenade launcher because it was just too good, so that might change things too.. I am not sure if there is more I can/should do to address cyberdiscs. They are a foe to be feared for sure. Let me know if you come up with something!

Regarding the bugs: Oh.. ohoh! :D That's what version 1.01 will be for! I have an ongoing game which serves to test most of these, so some things definitely slip by. The armor being a good example: I would only check after having done the research. I'll fix the requirements for the rest.

BTW, I've got the Tanks mod finished: modular tanks (weapon and hulls are separate, you can assemble what you need before battle and dismantle them to get the components back), in 3 varieties: Regular, Alloy Hull and Hovertank, for Rockets, Laser, Elerium Laser, Gauss and DE Gauss ammo. I have attached a teaser for the threadheads.

What next? More doggies or melee? I'm thinking melee.. (and bug fixes.. every new release will have bug fixes, of course!)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 23, 2014, 08:16:27 pm
Ooh, tanks.  Looking forward to it.

Anyway, another error: The Alloy Cannon doesn't consume any of its ammo when it's rearming.  However, it still gives back its ammo when removed from a craft so it's possible to manufacture its ammo for free by rearming and removing the cannon over and over.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 23, 2014, 09:23:54 pm
uh? That's really weird.. I haven't used the cannon in a while (building my Avenger now :D).

I'll address the bugs you reported and release fixes along with the tanks soon. And I thought I had thoroughly tested things!  ::)

Thanks for the feedback!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: HelmetHair on October 24, 2014, 12:11:12 am
Well there is a few mods I have been looking over and this one seems pretty cool.

I really like that you can build tanks and chassis seperatley and then make WTF ever tank you need. I would love to see that functionality with two weapon tanks.

Armored doges... So metal, much win, eatin' sectoads

I am also intrigued by the idea of a quick draw slot... but in a different manner.  A sling.  Yes a simple cross body 3 point sling slot. 1 by 3 for rifles, smgs, that costs 4 to deploy just like the belt and hand to sling is 2 mimicing simply letting the weapon go and giving it a push so you can shoot hands free or whatever.

I'm not sure if balancing this is possible... remove 3 back pack slots? mayber.

pistols fit great in a belt so I don't know...

-HH
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.0 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 24, 2014, 04:22:53 am
Version 1.01 is ready! Providing you with:

- An all new tier of tanks with alloy hulls. (Currently.. overpowered? They have the same armor as hovertanks which might be too much.. Let me know!)
- A complete rework of tanks to be modular: Hull and Weapon are separate. You can now replace the obsolete cannon turret with a shiny new laser cannon, or put a rocket launcher on your hovertanks! (For those who want "regular tanks", an alternate ruleset will be coming soon)
* Destroyed tank hulls are repairable, to work along the new armours and the changes made by the GravArmors mod (Strongly recommended, to be incorporated eventually) which allow infantry armour to be repaired. Tank weapons are destroyed, however, as the aliens always make sure to take them out.
- Bug fixes (thanks to BBHood217 for many reports):
* Elerium Laser Cannons now have a proper listOrder
* Improved MediKits floorob graphics no longer replace one of the Sectopod corpse tiles
* Scout and Mag Armours no longer show up in the ufopaedia before being discovered (No spoilers!)
* Elerium recovery from plasma rifle clips and heavy plasma rifle clips should now work properly
* Erroneous renaming of Alien Reproduction removed
* The Alloy Cannon craft weapon now properly uses its ammo to reload (case sensitivity..!  ::))

Stay tuned for more:
- XAE Elerium Explosives: New ammunition for our old weapons using the destructive power of Elerium (Heavy Explosive, Rockets, Heavy Cannon, AutoCannon). Will also include an alternate path to Elerium Bombs and Elerium missiles since the bombs proved to be very elusive. An immediate benefit of the "Elerium Weaponization" research.
- XAE Melee: Ever thought of slashing/smashing some aliens to bits? This module will give you all the tools you need to do so: Combat Knife, Alloy Knife, Alloy Sword, Laser Sword, Plasma Sword and Two-settings Elerium Mace.
- XAE Attack Dogs: And expansion on the Attack Dog mod by Dioxine, adding two tiers of armoured dogs, corresponding to Personal Armour and Power Suit protection level.
- XAE Hard Mode: Add an extra challenge to your game! Makes research longer and more complex, weapon requirement changes, hovertanks explode on death if not stunned/exploded (like Cyberdiscs), etc. If you have ideas, let me know!

The XCom Armoury Expanded, v1.01:

Part1 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11731)
Part2 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11732)
Part3 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11733)

My apologies for the triple download, such is life without the mod portal.. I will eventually figure out a hosting solution.

===================

@HelmetHair: I am glad the mod peaked your interest!

I just managed to get the nightly OpenXCom to run properly. 2 weapons HWP are something I am considering for sure. It should be simple to implement within the structure I already have. It most likely will be in an optional ruleset since the manufacture list is already getting long and it does not work for 1.0.

Regarding a quick draw sling slot, I am thinking about something like that, also related to the melee module I intend to make. If you have to keep a sword in your backpack and drawing it eats lots of TUs, then they become much less attractive. It could work for rifles as well.

I am concerned, however, by the flexibility it gives to XCom operatives, compared to the poor aliens who barely know how to use one weapon (almost always use snap shots, unaware of chance to hit when choosing which shot to use) and grenades.

Our operatives can already carry.. 2-7 weapons in battle. I sometimes use 2 rifles + 1 pistol, you can push it to 4 pistols + 3 rifles! And use the best one every time, unlike an alien who only has one weapon and no clue that snap shots lose accuracy after 15 tiles. I am planning a mod for aliens ("Starspawn: Horrors from Above" is my working name) and there is a lot to address.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: HelmetHair on October 24, 2014, 05:47:29 am

@HelmetHair: I am glad the mod peaked your interest!

I just managed to get the nightly OpenXCom to run properly. 2 weapons HWP are something I am considering for sure. It should be simple to implement within the structure I already have. It most likely will be in an optional ruleset since the manufacture list is already getting long and it does not work for 1.0.

Regarding a quick draw sling slot, I am thinking about something like that, also related to the melee module I intend to make. If you have to keep a sword in your backpack and drawing it eats lots of TUs, then they become much less attractive. It could work for rifles as well.

I am concerned, however, by the flexibility it gives to XCom operatives, compared to the poor aliens who barely know how to use one weapon (almost always use snap shots, unaware of chance to hit when choosing which shot to use) and grenades.

Our operatives can already carry.. 2-7 weapons in battle. I sometimes use 2 rifles + 1 pistol, you can push it to 4 pistols + 3 rifles! And use the best one every time, unlike an alien who only has one weapon and no clue that snap shots lose accuracy after 15 tiles. I am planning a mod for aliens ("Starspawn: Horrors from Above" is my working name) and there is a lot to address.

A few quick comments on these topics.

I'm not a fan of swords, seems a touch weaboo for me, but I am a huge fan of the combat knife and letting players and modders do what they do.

Maybe a slight change in the way shoulder slots are actually allocated. Right shoulder being a 2 vertical instead of 2 horizontal simulating a knife sheath or an under slung holster, yes I know strong side carry is not to be encouraged in real life and all soldiers are right handed but space is limited! and replace left shoulder with with a three vertical to simulate a sling or sword sheathe while removing 1 slot from the belt; no free lunch after all... I'd Keep the TU costs the same and roll with it. This would simulate the "quick draw" nature of getting a weapon into play for 3 TUs and the 10 TU cost of reholstering/ resheathing would simulate safely putting a weapon away... No free lunch once again.

The greatest difference I can think of for me would be in my initial assault on a UFO. Rolling up with a tank, launching a an SSRL (Cuz ET is sweet) drawing a knife and pistol and getting to work or a pistol and a Stunstick. etc etc etc. Or after a panicked soldier quits panicking have him pull a rifle from his sling since he dropped whatever was in his hand. Or tossing in a flashbang, sicking the dogs on those grey bastards and then shooting the ones... you get the point.

The aliens AI does drag its knuckles sometimes... but I think there are a few things that could be done. I think maybe I'll look into it, it at least will be intellectually stimulating.

One option is to keep alien weapons unusable by X-com, and up the accuracy of those alien weapons while reducing the TU cost. Hell, make snapshot only shoot full auto and more accurate. So Alien weapons must be converted to be usable by X-Com and so the very much superior stats would be hidden from the player.

More insidious alien weapons like my idea of the infection gun... that is straight up terrifying to me. 

Maybe tweaking spawns so you have clusters of difficult units? Like 2-3 cyberdisks together acting like a wedge with sectoids coming closing in... The only thing I am not sure about is selectively giving information and removing it based on turn.

thoughts??

-HH

Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 24, 2014, 11:42:03 am
Yay new tanks!  The XAE apparently overrides the Improved Ground Tanks mod and I guess this new version is why.  I'll have to armor the tanks with alloys to get back the armored tanks that the other mod gave.

I found another minor goof.  All the laser weapons require at least one alien alloy... except the laser storm pistol, which needs no materials at all.

Edit: I don't think the hovertank armor is overpowered.  Heavy plasma can still hurt hovertanks a lot, and eventually the aliens use nothing but heavy plasma.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 24, 2014, 04:46:09 pm
It's great that this thread is becoming active! Very motivating!

@BBHood217: The XAE overrides the improved ground tank if you load it afterwards. If you load the mods in the reverse order, you will have improved regular cannon/rocket/laser tanks. Of course Improved Ground Tanks won't work on the Gauss tank. I would expect that you don't need Improved Ground Tanks anymore though.

In the early game, aliens use a lot of plasma pistols (especially in the Alien Armoury Expanded, which I consider a required mod to go with this one), against which your regular tank should hold up. Then the Alloy Hull is pretty quick to access to give you endgame quality defences on the ground tank. The early boost to tank armours, before the aliens take out their big weapons is what worries me, not their endgame survivability. But I never use tanks (I'd rather take 4 soldiers) so I'm not sure.. and I don't know how to make tanks attractive in a skyranger when space is already limited, except making them tough enough that they save lives. I certainly don't want to make them even better at killing aliens. We will see!

Thanks for the catch, once again!

@HelmetHair:
I was originally not a fan of swords either. I remember rolling my eyes when I first saw an alloy sword. But I think it is a nice component for those who want more of a space fantasy than sci-fi (And I really like Hobbes' Melee oriented Japanese team). Like everything in the XAE, it will be its own expansion module so you can leave it out without losing anything else. There will be no chainsword though, that'd be overpowered ;)

Melee weapons also will answer a need in the later game for better breaching weapons. In the early game, the shotgun and "Storm Pistols" are wonderful breaching weapons: Short range, but that's fine, multiple shots so they are more dependable (the larger the sample size, the closer you should be to the average, ie you always hit a few times) and decent damage. But in the late game, against gazers/mutons/ethereals, the weapons I intended as breaching weapons just don't work anymore because of the aliens' armour. The Plasma Caster (from the Alien Armoury Expanded) is the shotgun equivalent/breacher weapon for endgame and it barely measures up against Ethereals against mutons and gazers it tells them you're there so they can murder you. I'd rather people breach UFOs with swords than with Heavy Plasmas... (Indeed, in the XAE Hard Mode, Heavy Plasmas won't be useful at all for breaching).

The idea of rotating the shoulder slots is a good one. I might actually do that for a 3 vertical slots on the right shoulder. For pistols, there's already 2 vertical slots in the belt so that should be enough.

Going back to the AI and doing things for aliens, you just confirmed that converting alien weaponry for human use is worth pursuing. I had the idea yesterday of using the plasma rifle look to make a new line of human plasma weapons, keeping the alien plasma weapons only useable by aliens. Then I can take away the accuracy concerns for aliens since they're too stupid to consider it, without overly buffing XCom. That'll be part of XAE Hard Mode for sure.

There's already graphics available thanks to Chiko:
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/X-Com/X-ComStuff/EMWeapons9.png)
(https://i200.photobucket.com/albums/aa145/ChikoEduardo/X-Com/X-ComStuff/AlienWeapons2.png)

Your infection gun will be part of "Starspawn: Horror from Above" whenever I get to it, radius 1 small launcher ammo that turns you into a zombie (and then a chryssalid). Will be wonderful on terror missions. Thanks to you, everyone can make zombies out of civilians to go with their cyberdiscs/sectopods! ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: HelmetHair on October 24, 2014, 07:46:02 pm
I asked Warboy about the code for some insights into the AI on how they do what they do....

Units will decide to use an aimed shot if they have the time units and the distance is greater than 12 tiles.
If they have TUs for aimed, aimed it is if not Snap.

I can see some room for some alterations that could end in some rather Malcious AI tactics...

just scratching the surface... my syntax SUCKS so even if I can come up with a few rat bastard tricks... I'm not sure if it'll fly  :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 24, 2014, 07:50:23 pm
Ah, well, that's actually better than I thought.. Even though.. penalties for snap shots kick in at 15 tiles default, so taking an aimed shot from 12 to 14 is actually a bad decision! (you usually get more damage/TU spend with snap shots, even taking into account the lower base accuracy. Before you hit the dropoff, of course). Anyhow, that's good to know! I know at some point, when (very) close to a target, they use autoshots too, but I'm not sure what the distance is.

Anyhow, that's not something I want to touch in the XCom Armoury Expanded (which is focused on XCom weapons), it's more something for my future alien mod.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Hadan on October 24, 2014, 07:52:52 pm
Going back to the AI and doing things for aliens, you just confirmed that converting alien weaponry for human use is worth pursuing. I had the idea yesterday of using the plasma rifle look to make a new line of human plasma weapons, keeping the alien plasma weapons only useable by aliens. Then I can take away the accuracy concerns for aliens since they're too stupid to consider it, without overly buffing XCom. That'll be part of XAE Hard Mode for sure.
If I may chip in my 2 dents:
Please dont do this  :-\ (or at least make it optional).
All the other Weapon-Conversions do this and i really dont like it, imho it just adds a unnecessary level of micromanagement.

best regards
Hadan
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 24, 2014, 08:34:19 pm
Hi Hadan,

Thanks for the feedback. I am aware that it is not a new idea, but I am coming to think that it is "necessary" to attain the experience that I am personally looking for.

However, like everything else in the XCom Armoury Expanded, it will be in its own Expansion Module, completely independent of all the other mods and not required for anything else to work. It will be an option for people who want to use it, not a requirement.

I fully understand that we each have our preferences and that some of what I do may not work for some people. That's why everything is its own module, even though it's a pain in the neck to make everything modular. I assure you that you will not have to use it if you don't like it and that you will still be able to enjoy everything else that is provided in the XCom Armoury Expanded.

Although I play with all the XAE mods enabled and that's what I like, you are in no way required to do so for things to work. Everyone can design their own experience. I consider the customizable modular nature of the XAE to be its defining property and its greatest strength.

I hope you can find the combination of modules that make the game what you want it to be. If you find that something is missing, let me know. If there is something you don't want, everything else should always work without it.

(Man, that sounds like a corporate answer, doesn't it? I don't know what to change though.. and I really mean it!)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Hadan on October 25, 2014, 11:27:00 am
(Man, that sounds like a corporate answer, doesn't it? I don't know what to change though.. and I really mean it!)
It does, a little  :D
I didnt realise everything is optional, i was waiting for 1.0 to test your mod.
I am sure i will find a combination that suits me.

Thanks for the extensive answer  :)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 25, 2014, 04:37:52 pm
Human plasma weapons?  You mean like in Xenonauts?  There, you research the various alien guns (and I think a few UFO components) to get laser, then plasma, and finally mag weapons.  You never research the alien guns to use them; in fact, you can actually use them right away but with a heavy accuracy penalty (since they're for aliens, not humans).

Anyway, I'm all for unusable alien weapons and human plasma weapons.  But then... what happens when you mind control an alien?  Will they actually be able to shoot their guns when you're controlling them?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Solarius Scorch on October 25, 2014, 04:45:05 pm
Anyway, I'm all for unusable alien weapons and human plasma weapons.

Yeah, because alien weapons require opposable thumbs, which humans clearly don't have. :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 25, 2014, 04:56:51 pm
I wouldn't change anything but the plasma weapons. All the lasers/gauss would be the same.

For plasma weapons, I would make it so that aliens don't lose much from the UFOExtender Accuracy (thinking of a dropoff value of 1 and forgiving auto and snap ranges, no minimum range). Once you research the plasma weapons, you would get access to a manufacturing process that converts alien plasma weapons (which you can't use) into human plasma weapons.

The human versions may have different accuracy and TU costs, but most importantly will have different minimum, snap shot and auto shot ranges. I don't like the idea of storming UFOs with a heavy plasma. That thing is big and bulky and should be a support weapon, not a main weapon.

Tweaking the stats of the current heavy plasma would nerf the aliens (especially giving it a minimum range) since they are "stuck" with which weapon they use, unlike the player who would always use the right weapon for the job. So the solution is to differentiate the weapon the aliens use (and leave it mostly untouched) while tweaking the weapon the humans will use to obtain the right behaviour.

The difference can be handwaved by saying that the aliens have access to psi/fancy tech that allows them to handle big guns in close quarters or something. I don't like the idea that XCom can come to use, understand and manufacture alien tech within a year, to a point where it is as good as (and in the case of armours, much better than) alien tech for aliens, so it is a step towards solving that. Of course, that "XCom nerf" will be a part of the hard mode mod (or series of mod?) and be entirely optional.

@Solarius: Monkeys have thumbs too, do you see them using every tool we have? :P There are plenty of ways to explain that humans can't use the aliens weapons immediately. But the main reason to do it is not from a story perspective as I agree with you that on the basic level, nothing should prevent us from using those weapons.

It's from a technical point of view of how to create the experience I am looking for for XCom while not nerfing aliens. Say I give minRange: 10 to Heavy Plasmas because I want them to suck in close quarters (they're big, bulky and those are not characteristics of breaching weapons). Then the player will give his squad a few for heavy support and use different weapons for close quarters, all is well. Meanwhile, the aliens will be stuck with it (unless I redefine all of their inventory, I guess) and more importantly: they will have no idea how to use it properly because the AI doesn't understand minRange and accuracy.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Ascadix on October 25, 2014, 06:24:25 pm
Hello alien hunters :-)

This mod make me drop some little mini-mod i was working on since some times ... but i like it.

So, my little contribution : an advanced shotgun and a new shotgun ammo for XAE.

Based on Warboy's shotgun, just a ruleset, no need for additional graphics, it use Warboy's graphics that are present but unused in XAE 1.01.

- Reinforced Shotgun : same stats as original by Warboy.
-> auto-shot : x3

- Shotgun Dragon's Kiss ammo : A rain of molten metal, not to be used for a barbecue, but potentially effective response to some aliens. Can only be fired with reinforced shotgun since the standard shotgun can't deal with such a high temperature.
-> type 2 (incendiary) damages, so useless against snakeman, but better against some of other aliens.


Code: [Select]
items:
# ===============================================
# ===== RENEWED WEAPONS=====================
# ===============================================
#ADV_SHOTGUN
  - type: STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
    size: 0.2
    costSell: 4000
    weight: 5
    bigSprite: 608
    floorSprite: 608
    handSprite: 608
    bulletSprite: 2
    fireSound: 56
    compatibleAmmo:
      - STR_SHOTGUN_SHELLS
      - STR_SHOTGUN_AA_AMMO
      - STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    accuracySnap: 70
    accuracyAuto: 60
    accuracyAimed: 80
    tuSnap: 30
    tuAuto: 40
    tuAimed: 45
    battleType: 1
    twoHanded: true
    invWidth: 1
    invHeight: 3
    listOrder: 2008
    maxRange: 13
    aimRange: 11
    snapRange: 8
    autoRange: 6
    dropoff: 5
    requires:
      - STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
  - type: STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    requires:
      - STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    size: 0.1
    costSell: 800
    weight: 3
    bigSprite: 609
    floorSprite: 609
    hitSound: 22
    hitAnimation: 36
    power: 30
    damageType: 2
    clipSize: 8
    battleType: 2
    blastRadius: 0
    listOrder: 2009
    shotgunPellets: 6
# ===============================================
# ================= RESEARCH ====================
# ===============================================
research:
#ADV_SHOTGUN
  - name: STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
    cost: 800
    points: 10
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_ALLOYS
      - STR_ALIEN_WEAPONRY
    listOrder: 901
#SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_AMMO
  - name: STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    cost: 500
    points: 10
    dependencies:
      - STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
      - STR_ALLOY_AMMO
    listOrder: 903
# ===============================================
# =============== MANUFACTURE ===================
# ===============================================
manufacture:
#ADV_SHOTGUN
  - name: STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
    category: STR_WEAPON
    requires:
      - STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
    space: 4
    time: 820
    cost: 18000
    requiredItems:
      STR_ALIEN_ALLOYS: 1
    listOrder: 811
#SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_AMMO
  - name: STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_BATCH
    category: STR_AMMUNITION
    requires:
      - STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    space: 2
    time: 40
    cost: 400
    producedItems:
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS: 4
    listOrder: 812
# ===============================================
# ================= UFOPAEDIA ===================
# ===============================================
ufopaedia:
#ADV_SHOTGUN
  - id: STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
    type_id: 4
    section: STR_WEAPONS_AND_EQUIPMENT
    text: STR_ADV_SHOTGUN_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 2106
    requires:
      - STR_ADV_SHOTGUN
#SHOTGUN_AADART_AMMO
  - id: STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
    type_id: 4
    section: STR_NOT_AVAILABLE
    requires:
      - STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS
# ===============================================
# ============= EXTRA SPRITES ===================
# ===============================================
extraSprites:
  - type: BIGOBS.PCK
    files:
      608: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/ReinforcedShotgun.gif
      609: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/EleriumShotgunAmmo.gif
  - type: FLOOROB.PCK
    files:
      608: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/ReinforcedShotgunF.gif
      609: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/EleriumShotgunAmmoF.gif
  - type: HANDOB.PCK
    files:
      608: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/ReinforcedShotgunH.gif
    width: 128
    height: 80
    subX: 32
    subY: 40
# ===============================================
# ================== SOUNDS =====================
# ===============================================
extraSounds:
  - type: BATTLE.CAT
    files:
      55: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/Fire.wav
      56: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/Shotgun/Fire2.wav
# ===============================================
# =================== STRINGS ===================
# ===============================================
extraStrings:
  - type: en-US
    strings:
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN: Reinforced Shotgun
      STR_SHOTGUN_SHELLS: Shotgun Shells
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS: Shotgun Dragon's Kiss
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_BATCH: Shotgun Dragon's Kiss (x4)
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN_UFOPEDIA: Utilizing the properties of Alien Alloys, this semi-automatic shotgun features a stronger barrel compared to the conventional counterpart.{NEWLINE}Its resistance allows the use of high-calorie ammo ("Dragon's Kiss").
  - type: en-GB
    strings:
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN: Reinforced Shotgun
      STR_SHOTGUN_SHELLS: Shotgun Shells
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS: Shotgun Dragon's Kiss
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_BATCH: Shotgun Dragon's Kiss (x4)
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN_UFOPEDIA: Utilizing the properties of Alien Alloys, this semi-automatic shotgun features a stronger barrel compared to the conventional counterpart.{NEWLINE}Its resistance allows the use of high-calorie ammo ("Dragon's Kiss").
  - type: fr
    strings:
      STR_SHOTGUN: Fusil à Pompe
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN: Fusil à Pompe Renforcé
      STR_SHOTGUN_SHELLS: Cartouches Fusil à pompe
      STR_SHOTGUN_AA_AMMO: Munitions AET Fusil à Pompe
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS: Bisou du Dragon (Mun. F.Pompe)
      STR_SHOTGUN_DRAGONSHELLS_BATCH: Bisou du Dragon (x4)
      STR_SHOTGUN_UFOPEDIA: Fusil à pompe tactique standard calibre 12. Délivre une puissance de feu dévastatrice à courte portée, mais la dispersion des projectiles et leur faible force de pémétration limite son efficacité face à des cibles éloignées ou fortement blindées.
      STR_ADV_SHOTGUN_UFOPEDIA: Tirant parti des propriétés des alliages E.T., ce fusil à pompe semi-automatique dispose d'un canon plus résistant que le modéle standard.{NEWLINE}Sa résistance permet l'usage de munitions hyper-caloriques ("bisou du dragon").
 


NB: extrastring contain also "fr" string for the standard shotgun that are missing in XAE.


edit: oops ... not the good .rul, uploaded an old version -> corrected.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: XCOMFan419 on October 25, 2014, 06:29:25 pm
The only way I see the Aliens having their weapons not being usable by humans is something like a DNA lock or an ID lock which allows only that alien who has been assigned that weapon to use it. Or the aliens have locked Human DNA/ID out of their weapons and for humans to use them, they must disable the lock or something.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: NoelBuddy on October 25, 2014, 06:49:11 pm
Another explanation for alien weapons being unusable, at least at first, is they may be triggered by mental command with no mechanical trigger.  Even the Psi-weak aliens can use something programed to respond directly to their neural impulses, but it would be difficult for humans to figure out the right "shoot" command to think.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 25, 2014, 07:47:50 pm
@Ascadix: Thanks for the ruleset. I think I have the graphics for the improved shotgun somewhere. The reason I did not include it in the XAE along with the regular shotgun is that I find it weird to have an improved version of shotguns but not of any of the other conventional weapons. If we make better shotguns, surely there should be better rifles, better autocannons, better...

It also begs the question: Do we really need an extra tier of weaponry beyond conventional -> alloy ammo -> laser/gauss -> elerium laser/depleted elerium gauss -> plasma. I am all for delaying tech, but as of now I find little space to add a new tier of alloy guns with alloy ammo.

That's also why I don't have explosive elerium based conventional ammo. I have, however, completed a new expansion module for elerium explosives since explosives did not have multiple tiers and I pretty much designed it already because of the discussion with Hobbes in another thread.

All that being said, I will incorporate your work into an expansion module, since I believe in the mod offering options. If you do further work on this idea, let me know! Despite my reserves, I am very much interested. The later XCom gets laser/gauss/plasma, the happier I am. (I prefer slower tech gains as they are more realistic).

======== Regarding plasma weapons splitting =======
There are lots of possible ways to explain alien weapons being useable only by aliens, DNA based locks and psi-links being the two best candidates.

You can even extend the psi-link one into triggering a self-sabotaging mechanism when its user loses consciousness. You still retrieve a pretty looking alien gun that's worth money but it doesn't go pew-pew anymore. Then XCom engineer take whatever parts still works, rig something together to make the gun shoot again and you end up with a subpar version of the weapon. That, and XCom troopers don't like guns that shoot when you think "pew-pew", they prefer triggers which are an incredibly primitive idea for the aliens. I think that sounds pretty good.

Anyhow, the handwaving is far from my main concern with this idea (which is not gonna happen soon any ways). I am considering it for the technical side of being able to rebalance endgame weapons for both aliens and XCom. It particularly annoys me that as soon as XCom has heavy plasmas, everyone carries one, whereas the aliens are still stupid enough to carry pistols and rifles, especially with the Alien Armoury Expanded. Not that I consider that a flaw of the AAE, I very much like it for that reason, in fact. We just need the same to be true for XCom.

Edit: And because I kept thinking about this:
Yeah, because alien weapons require opposable thumbs, which humans clearly don't have. :P
Doesn't it just require a trigger finger? That's even less special! I want to give a heavy plasma to some raccoon now! :P

Like this guy, he already looks like he could be an XCom operative! Just need to recolor the orange to grey and the armour to a suitably purplish blue for alien alloys.
(https://oyster.ignimgs.com/wordpress/stg.ign.com/2013/12/rocket-raccoon.jpg)

All joking aside, I'd love to move on from the "what plasma for humans and how?" questions ;) This is some ways away.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Ascadix on October 25, 2014, 08:51:30 pm
Hi,

For the graphics ... they are in the last XAE release ZIP :-)

For the reinforced shotgun, i didn't think about a full new tier, just as a little upgrade to a very old/basic weapon since the std shotgun is a lot less sophisticated than the rifle or the auto/heavy canon.

I have seen your work on the DE-Gauss, so i have not included Warboy's original E115 shotgun ammo but my concept of a simple human-tech incendiary ammo for the shotgun.

I ask myself 2 questions about those wepons:
- Maybe it would be good to make the dragon's kiss useable with the std shotgun, so the only improvement of the "aloy shotgun" would be the auto-shot feature ?
- And decrease prerequisites for reinforcedshotgun to just Aloys and no alien tech since it's jsute a teran concept with better raw material. ?


Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 25, 2014, 09:33:41 pm
Yes, I just realized that :) I'll be moving them into their own folder and using your ruleset as the basis for a new expansion module for alloy weapons. Overall, it is very well done! Maybe eventually we can add pistols, rifles, etc. to it, made out of alloys so lighter and maybe more versatile in terms of ammunition. I am thinking of using something like that to fire the elerium explosive ammo for the cannons, especially, and why not add incendiary damage to the pistol/rifle as a complement? But that's more for later.

There are a few things I will likely tweak, but I like the prerequisites as they are. I might tweak the UFOPaedia entry to mention increased durability of the gun's barrel after studying alien plasma weapons (which in turn will feed into allowing it to fire the dragon's kiss ammunition).

I am mostly looking at the research cost (800 is a LOT, on par with the Heavy Plasma!), plus the 500 for the new ammo (more than the heavy plasma clip!).

Another thing that worries me is the autoshot. Firing 3 times 6 pellets at 30 damage each is 540 damage! Of course, that's not really true since it doesn't take armour into account and all shotgun type weapons greatly suffer from that in the later game. But in the early game, that's a devastating weapon against alien infantry. I am thinking of changing the autoshots to 2, and/or changing the accuracy/TUs, but haven't really thought enough about it.

Edit: Oh! And I forgot.. A sneak peak of the next module. This is gonna take a while...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Ascadix on October 26, 2014, 01:08:24 am
i,


v2 ruleset,  with the modification i was wondering ...

- dragon kiss is compatible with standard shotgun
- reinforced shotgun only depend on alloy, not other alien tech/research.

I don't know which rulset is best balanced ....


For the idea of a full set of weapon based on good-old human concepts but optimized an built with alloy, i think at such a set for some time.

There is some great pixelarts in Chiko's ressource posts : https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=383.0

But they lack handobs gfx, and i'm not good at drawing them, so for now, this is just an idea.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: NoelBuddy on October 26, 2014, 01:19:38 am
Here's a shotgun version I've been using for the alloy version.  It's based off a Doom shotgun that was posted a while back adjusted, recolored and with a reworked handOb.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: TaxxiDriver on October 26, 2014, 07:42:46 am
I'm also playing with this mod and trying to modify it to my taste :) Mostly about adjusting the subtle damage or armor and stuff (not good at adding new things).

What I did was the following:

(1) I let the tank cannon and tank rocket launcher be able to be purchased in an ordinary way, too. In the early games, I thought that the required 25 size for assembling a tank can be overwhelming so I also let the option to buy them, not manufacturing only.

(2) Removed 'sniper rifle' class weapons and modified the hierarchy of weapon types. The general hierarchy became standard -> gauss -> de-gauss -> laser -> e-laser -> plasma -> blaster.
     The intention was to boost the damage of weapons as their hierarchy goes up, but to lower the accuracy (except the fact that accuracy peak is achieved in gauss & de-gauss class) so that only those competent commandors who managed to maintain a lot of experienced soldiers can have a great advantage as time goes by (for example, in my modification heavy plasma do not have auto shots, weighted 18, and accuracy of snap shot and aim shot is 45 and 80 each).
     But the relationship between weapon types do not strictly follow this hierarchy: For example, I retained the notion that gauss weapons deal more damage but laser weapons use less TUs for shooting. But in general (hopefully) as time goes by, laser weapons will do a better job if agents are experienced enough.
     The reason I put gauss weapons a bit before the laser ones was because (1) it fits well to the above hierarchy (2) I'm trying to make Aliens also have some laser weapons in the early months but not gauss weapons (anyway gauss weapons seemed to me more like 'earthbound' weapons). (3) currently there seems to be no way of defining new damage type and gauss weapons deal AP damage, so it seemed to me logical to think gauss weapons as an upgraded version of standard issues.
     The reason I removed sniper class weapons was to make this effect stronger (to prevent less competent commandors to just issue a bunch of sniper rifles to rookies, thus making the game more challenging). Especially with UFOextender Accuracy mode, anyway most of your shots will be a snap or aimed shot, so I found little reason to maintain them(though they look very cool...).
     Well, all of these are just explaining what I'm doing, that's all :D

And my personal suggestions are:

(1) How about filling out all the possible HWP combinations? For example, what about a plain cannon with a hovertank hull? There are some missing combinations (plain laser hovertank, plain gauss hovertank, cannon alloy tank) and I think giving the complete option to mix weapons and hulls would be a nice feature. (More fun!)

(2) How about combining the Sectopod HWP mod? I'm actually thinking of the most fun HWP hierarchy as this: normal -> alloy -> hover OR sectopod hwp. Also, I'm waiting for your dual-weapon HWP :) I've seen Crypto has made the battle tank mod where battle tank can shoot cannons as well as rockets.

(3) Is it possible to prepare 2 types of ammos for a given HWP? (not duel-weapon HWP but just giving 2 types of ammos for a HWP). It would be great if rocket launcher HWPs can also choose a stronger rockets.

Good job, indeed. I'm enjoying this mod a lot.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: XCOMFan419 on October 26, 2014, 08:04:41 am
I haven't played around with XCom Armoury Expanded...yet. (I just finished my most recent playthrough from getting OXC again and resuming my interest) I was planning to do a playthrough of this with some elements of my Tanks Drones Sectopods? Oh my! because I need to keep testing it, playing around with it, etc... until I can get the sprites for the Alloy tanks done.

But it looks like some things that TaxxiDriver suggest are arguable. Removing the Sniper Rifles are probably a bad move for the mod. Not the modder personally, as they can remove that, but the mod in general. It would be a better move to let modders do as they wish at their discretion. Secondly, the tank manufacturing is kinda BS. In the Vanilla game, the non-hovering researched tanks typically took 25 manufacturing spaces. I would imagine that a more close-to-home manufacturing project would be at most 15 spaces, and at least 10, IMO.

____

And to answer TaxxiDriver's last question, no it isn't possible IIRC. Each HWP weapon only has one ammo type, but with the new two weapons thing it's the closest thing we'll get to something like that.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: TaxxiDriver on October 26, 2014, 08:21:25 am
Removing the Sniper Rifles are probably a bad move for the mod. Not the modder personally, as they can remove that, but the mod in general. It would be a better move to let modders do as they wish at their discretion.

Yes, indeed. I agree on you. So that was definitely not my suggestion for this mod. Just my personal messing playing with this mod  :)

Secondly, the tank manufacturing is kinda BS. In the Vanilla game, the non-hovering researched tanks typically took 25 manufacturing spaces. I would imagine that a more close-to-home manufacturing project would be at most 15 spaces, and at least 10, IMO.

I agree... 25 is really a huge amount of space, especially at the early part of the game. Not sure what would be the optimal space, though.

And to answer TaxxiDriver's last question, no it isn't possible IIRC. Each HWP weapon only has one ammo type, but with the new two weapons thing it's the closest thing we'll get to something like that.

Well, then I expect the second best thing will come out soon!

Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 26, 2014, 06:20:28 pm
Lots of feedback, that's great!

Regarding shotguns, I have started making the "XAE_Alloy_Weapons" mod, which has the alloy shotgun inside. I think it will become a new tier of weaponry before lasers/gauss.

The elerium explosive mod I had been working on will become elerium ammo, with elerium incendiary damage for pistol/rifle and elerium explosives for the cannons/rocket launcher. The projects will be batches so that you can produce more than one clip per elerium unit for pistols and rifles (since otherwise it would be useless), but fewer shots than regular ammo (and much fewer than alloy ammo) per clips.

Gauss weapons will also get an endgame elerium incendiary ammo wrapped up in the same expansion mod. Gauss becomes useless otherwise compared to lasers. In my current playthrough, I used (DE) Gauss extensively, especially for snipers, along with the (Elerium) lasers, until I ditched Gauss entirely because of the crappy damage type. It won't be a boost in damage compared to DE ammo (might be a nerf?), but the change to incendiary should be worth it.

About the changes:

1) I thought about letting the basic tank hulls be purchasable built already, then decided against it. I thought it was redundant since you can buy the parts. But I could easily change it. But I really don't get the space issue. A workshop provides 50 spaces. In the early game, how many engineers do you have? And assembling/dismantling a tank is a really fast project, so even if some engineers are taking a break, it's not for long. I don't think I will change that.

2) One of the first goal of the mod was to add a sniper rifle :P (along with the shotgun) I have tried to make the TU cost enough (and the accuracy gain small enough) that a sniper rifle is a tool for marksmen only, for those shot that you really need to land. It should not be a good tool for rookies. If you think rookies are best given sniper rifles, let me know why and I will try to fix that. I give mine pistols or shotguns.

Also, the mod is intended to be used with the Alien Armoury Expanded, which adds a plasma sniper rifle (and shotgun). To me, that makes it necessary to have sniper rifles of other kinds too, otherwise it creates a contradiction.

Of course, if you're not using the AAE, that's different. Then you should probably just not use the "XCom Armoury Expanded" module either (since why have shotguns and equivalents for everything but plasma?). You can still use every other modules (Crafts + all the XAE Expansions) any ways. Version 1.02 will add a "requirement" for shotgun and sniper rifle equivalents so that they don't show up if you don't have basic shotguns and sniper rifles.

For me, it's AAE+XAE, or neither. Same goes with crafts (AAE UFOs + XAE Crafts, or neither). Both mods were created under the assumption of running the alien versions. I don't want to split the XAE between shotgun and sniper rifle, since the AAE has both together. It might be a little bit wonky now, but 1.02 will support running everything/anything else without the XCom Armoury Expanded, and crafts are already "separate but integrated".

2.1) The progression you have is interesting. In general it might be true that Gauss tech is more approachable (you're still sending a chunk of stuff as fast as possible to your target, just using a different way) and could be a good "tier-2" weapon. I just don't see a proper way to make lasers wait until after Gauss. Also, as it is, the damage numbers really don't make any sense if you get DE Gauss before normal lasers. It is too early in the game for the damage type to matter..

2.2) Changing heavy plasma stats is a BIG no-no for me. You just totally nerfed the aliens doing that, for no reason whatsoever. I understand that heavy plasmas need to be nerfed for XCom, but you cannot forget the impact on aliens. They need their powerful weapon to compensate for the AI not being able to properly equip aliens or properly use its guns.

Suggestions:
1) If you have a gauss alloy tank/hovertank, why would you want a cannon one? Both deal single target AP damage and the cannon deals less. I only kept the combinations that seemed sensible to me. If you are using an expensive weapon (DE Gauss, ELaser, Plasma, Blaster), you want to put it on a resilient platform. If you use a crappy weapon, it's because you are trying to be cheap, so you don't put it on a hovertank. Also, the manufacturing list with hulls, hull repairs, assembly and dismantling is already quite long. So that's why it's not in the main mod. I will add a "tank expansion" mod to do it for those who would like it though.

2) I am not a big fan of XCom cyberdiscs and sectopods for the reason that I think the aliens keep some of their cool stuff. XCom are a bunch of early 2000s humans, stealing everything the aliens do within a year, even if you have 1000 scientists working on it, makes no sense. Fancy stuff like mini-flying saucers without turrets and big walkers is too much for me. Maybe XComFan419 can take a subset of his Tank, Drones and Sectopod mod that only has the Cyberdiscs and Sectopods (and maybe drones) that is compatible with the XAE.

3) As XComFan419 said, it is impossible to have HWP (or crafts, for that matter) that pick from different ammos, unfortunately. I will eventually release 2 weapons HWPs though. However, don't expect every weapon combination to be available. It will mostly be: Smoke Launcher + weapon and Direct fire (Cannon/Laser/ELaser/Gauss/DE Gauss/Plasma) with Blast damage (Rocket/Blaster). Stuff like a Gauss/Laser tank is not really adding enough to justify the effort and extra list entries.

I hope this all makes sense. Thanks for all the feedback/interest :D
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Hadan on October 26, 2014, 07:54:00 pm
Hello!

I was giving your mod a first spin - great work from what I can see at the end of february  :D
Maybe I encountered a bug: when assembling my first tank (alloy-hull + rockets), the game crashed to desktop without an error when the project was finished.
I use a bunch of other mods, but since nothing else was happening at the time i am afraid it was the manufacturing  :(

best regards
Hadan
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 26, 2014, 08:26:14 pm
Great! I am glad you like what you are seeing so far :)

You're right about the tank. One name I forgot to change. If you want to fix it (instead of just not making the tank), go in your XAE_Tanks.rul file, line 846 and change:

Code: [Select]
    producedItems:
      STR_ALLOY_TANK_ROCKET_LAUNCHER: 1

to

Code: [Select]
    producedItems:
      STR_ALLOY_TANK_ROCKET: 1

I have tested all the tanks in a new battle, but I have not tested all the combinations of weapons + hull. I am really sorry, I hate when mods make the game crash and make you lose good progress. I need to use Falko's mod tester, I bet it would have caught that.

I hope you had a save from not too far before. It will be fixed in v1.02.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Hadan on October 26, 2014, 09:39:13 pm
You're right about the tank. One name I forgot to change. If you want to fix it (instead of just not making the tank), go in your XAE_Tanks.rul file, line 846 and change:
Thanks, changed it.

I hope you had a save from not too far before. It will be fixed in v1.02.
No worries, I had a save from a few hours before  ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: XCOMFan419 on October 27, 2014, 03:10:41 am
Bug to report: SkyGuardian hates HWP that don't hover  :(

Can't get my brand new Alloy Laser Tank off of it and support my advance to the large Snakeman scout
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 27, 2014, 03:35:07 am
Damn, that's a tricky one.. I never play with HWPs (this new module is an attempt to make them more interesting for myself, mostly) so I never noticed that.

I have no knowledge of how to make maps, these were created by Aldorn for me. I will try to get a hold on him and see if he can fix it. If not, I don't know what to do. I can't even run MapView (although that might be the incentive I need to finally figure out if it's possible on Linux).

My apologies! The only way to make it work for now is to hack the ruleset and give your tank hovering capabilities by changing the movement type... :/ Not great.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: lordkrike on October 27, 2014, 03:36:28 am
I'm having issues with this mod.  I really want to get in to it, but I have found that the effects from some of the weapons crash my game.  I have no idea exactly what's going on, since nobody else is complaining it seems like it's just me.  Either way, I'd really appreciate help, since it seems like this could help refresh XCom for me.

I installed OXC 1.0 using the Win64 archive.  I then copied the necessary files out of my old XCom install (as is tradition), and the game works just swimmingly.

However, when I install your mod and activate the DE gauss ammo, firing any DE gauss ammo crashes my game.  The weapon will fire, the projectile will travel, and just as it is supposed to play the hit animation my game crashes. 

Buckshot from the grenade launcher does something similar, but I am able to see and get through the hit animation before the game crashes.

Do you have any idea what's going on?

Edit to add: regular gauss ammo works just fine.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 27, 2014, 04:47:30 am
Hi lordkrike,

I was going to reply asking a bunch of questions and then decided to try it. Quick reply: It used to work for me but it doesn't anymore... I will get back to you ASAP.

The amounts of bug that a little bit more attention are bringing up is surprising me.. I hope you guys are having fun nonetheless!

EDIT: I found the errors, stuff I should not have changed in the last update. In view of these and the tank error above, everyone please download the rulesets below and use them instead of the ones present in v1.01.

EDIT2: By using the original Skyranger terrain files, it looks like the Skywarden and Skyguardian both work. I have attached a 4th ruleset update.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: lordkrike on October 27, 2014, 12:53:36 pm
Hi lordkrike,

I was going to reply asking a bunch of questions and then decided to try it. Quick reply: It used to work for me but it doesn't anymore... I will get back to you ASAP.

The amounts of bug that a little bit more attention are bringing up is surprising me.. I hope you guys are having fun nonetheless!

EDIT: I found the errors, stuff I should not have changed in the last update. In view of these and the tank error above, everyone please download the rulesets below and use them instead of the ones present in v1.01.

I'm pretty sure this makes you the man.  Thank you!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 27, 2014, 06:07:46 pm
hehe thanks :D

I spent some time this morning investigating the tank issue and I am clueless as to what is happening. I wasted a bunch of time trying to get MapView to work in Linux, sort of made it, but it turned out not to matter. It's not a map issue per say.

I have tried even the Skyranger and its ramp doesn't work either. I copied back the files from my original XCom:EU and it still doesn't work. Then I tried to run it in 1.0 and all the crafts work for ground tanks. So it seems like there is an issue between the Skyranger type ramps and the nightly, which is well beyond my ability to fix.  >:(

If you guys have working Skyrangers but failing Skywarden or Skyguardians, let me know. If it is an all for nothing, given that I don't do anything to Skyrangers, I don't think it's anything to do with the mod.

EDIT: Since I was getting nowhere with this issue, I ended up deleting both my 1.0 and nightly installs and starting from scratch. After installing a nightly, lo and behold, the skyranger works fine. Then I was full of hope installing my crafts but no, they don't work. Good news is that they did not break the skyranger, so now I just have to figure out what the hell went wrong...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: lordkrike on October 28, 2014, 12:05:07 am
Another bug: after the end of the month, my Obstructor literally just disappeared.

Worked just fine up to that point; I used it to shoot down a harvester using a pair of alloy cannons not a few days before.

Now, to see if I can hack one back in to my save...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 28, 2014, 12:14:45 am
Whaat? Those crafts are going to drive me insane..! I have no idea whatsoever what could cause a craft to disappear like that. Do you have a save just before the end of the month? Is it reproducible? If I can't make one disappear, then I am afraid I won't be able to find out what's happening.

On the previous craft issue: Copying and renaming all the skyranger files so they are used by the skywarden and skyguardian doesn't fix the issue with the ramp, something is weird.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: lordkrike on October 28, 2014, 01:04:13 am
Whaat? Those crafts are going to drive me insane..! I have no idea whatsoever what could cause a craft to disappear like that. Do you have a save just before the end of the month? Is it reproducible? If I can't make one disappear, then I am afraid I won't be able to find out what's happening.

Unfortunately not, I was playing Ironman.  I'll see if I can get it to do it again.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 28, 2014, 01:37:01 am
Oh, playing Ironman with mods is ballsy! Maybe I should have refrained from going to 1.0 until I had a smaller set of mods that were really bug free instead of giving the impression I had something ready.. I wonder how I managed to go through the whole game without noticing some of this stuff..

On a positive note, I think I have identified the issue with the Skywarden and Skyguardian. It is "something to do with the terrain files". Yeah, super precise, isn't it? But the good news is, those files are extraneous any ways, since there are no new tiles for those planes compared to the Skyranger, so it all can be fixed by a change of ruleset (and deleting the Skywarden and Skyguardian .MCD .PCK and .TAB if you want to keep everything clean).

You can download the fixed ruleset here:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11828
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: TaxxiDriver on October 29, 2014, 12:36:06 pm
Glad that I was also not using HWPs that much ::) I wish the craft and HWP problems won't bother you for long.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: XCOMFan419 on October 29, 2014, 02:18:23 pm
DE Gauss, and the Gauss tech tree, were not working for me. If you loaded DE Gauss onto the skyranger and entered a battle, the game crashed. (Using nightlies btw) and for some reason the Gauss tech tree wasn't readily available to me. By the time I was lurching into plasma weapons (before everything crashed and I gave up. No clue as to why it crashed) I still couldn't research gauss. Checked the ruleset and it said I needed "Alien Somethingsomething" Which I had in my base stores but couldn't research. Give it the savegame is gone, I likely won't be able to replicate the incident without another playthrough.

But this mod can be good. Just needs some tweaking.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 29, 2014, 04:20:48 pm
@TaxxiDriver:
As far as I am concerned, the crafts/HWP issue is solved, but just using the same terrain files as the Skyranger. It works for me with the nightly, which is the version that did not work previously. I am not entirely sure what went wrong with the other terrain files, but maps are really not my forte so since it's working now, it's gonna stay like that.

@XCOMFan419:
DE Gauss crashing the game when entering battles seems to indicate an issue with your resources or maybe indexing conflicts? Does that happen when you start a "New Battle" with DE Gauss ammo? With the latest ruleset, I have tried all the different ammo and both the alloy tank and hovertank in "New Battle" without issues. If you can, try loading one at a time to see if it's a specific item that causes the problem.

Regarding Gauss tech availability: If you use the Gauss and DE Gauss mods by themselves, Gauss weapons will be available for research from the beginning, like laser weapons. However, if you use the XAE Research and Manufacture mod, that won't be the case anymore. XAE-R&M adds pre-requisites for both Laser and Gauss Weapons since it seems more reasonable that they would require alien tech, not just a few scientist-days of research (otherwise we would have laser weapons in 2014...).

Specifically, for Gauss weapons, you need:
- Alien Weaponry (Available from the start)
- Alien Alloys
- Alien Energy Cells (Which are obtained from dismantling specific alien items; See the UFO Disassembly and Elerium Recovery research topics)

It is possible to access plasma weapons without ever having had access to Gauss weaponry. However, it also would mean that you did not get access to lasers either, since both depend on Alien Energy Cells but Plasma weapons do not. It is one of those quirks of the XAE-R&M that it turns XCom into scavengers, dismantling Alien tech to try to understand the pieces and then combining them back into new weapons or using this new understanding to research other alien stuff.

I hope to release v1.02 soon. I was waiting for the next planned expansion module but it looks like the new content will be limited to simple tanks (ie the "vanilla" handling of tanks for those who don't want it to be modular) and Elerium Explosives, along with the latest bug fixes.

Once I release that, I will also start a new game to check for myself that the early-mid game experience does work as intended.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 29, 2014, 06:04:25 pm
Weaponry, Alloys, and Energy Cells?  That's strange, because I'm currently running around with laz0rz but have yet to see any gauss-related research topic.  I thought it was because I still haven't gotten around to researching UFO Power Source and Navigation, but now I'm not so sure.

BTW, the game doesn't tell me I can actually scavenge and recover cyberdisc and sectopod wrecks after researching said wrecks.  What would I get from those manufacturing options?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 29, 2014, 06:14:49 pm
Cyberdisc and Sectopod wrecks are some of the best thing to recover. They give all kinds of goodies: Alien Alloys, Alien Energy Cells, multiple Alien Electronics and Elerium from their reactors. If you scavenge them you get no Elerium and fewer Electronics though. I tried to make a list of recovered components but it was too unwieldy for the UFOPaedia format. I'll try again.

I will also make a request for a more informative manufacturing window, where it doesn't only list required items but also the produced ones if the "produced items" field is used. That would be a much better solution.

There is indeed an issue with the Gauss tech tree. A research declaration conflict which, depending on how you load things, may not impact you.. Gosh, it's really time I release v1.02!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: lordkrike on October 30, 2014, 12:56:52 am
Arthanor -

I tried to replicate the Obstructor disappearing magic trick, and was unable to do so.

No idea what happened, may have just been a one-off.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: BBHood217 on October 30, 2014, 04:42:44 pm
Here's something for v1.02: The Skyguardian apparently has an HWP capacity of 16.

Also, "Mind Probe Disasembly" is misspelled :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Arthanor on October 30, 2014, 05:14:06 pm
Yeah, the Skyguardian is a high tech craft that allows you to bring as many attack dogs, tanks or scout/enforcer drones (if you use those mod, I don't) as you want ;) It was like that in the rulesets I started from and I never changed it. I guess 3 HWP would be more than enough.

Good catch on the typo!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on October 31, 2014, 04:38:56 pm
Version 1.02 is now ready! Providing you with:

- Tanks Simple: An alternate Tanks Expansion module which enables "vanilla" build and field behavior for tanks. It is simpler but does not offer the same opportunity as the XAE Tanks mod.
(NOTE: FOR OBVIOUS REASONS, THE TWO TANKS MODULES ARE NOT COMPATIBLE, CHOOSE ONE OR THE OTHER
- Elerium Explosives: Proxy grenades, High explosives, Rocket, AutoCannon and Heavy Cannon explosive ammo using Elerium for more damage. A ressource intensive way to get more damage on those pesky cyberdiscs.
- The guided missile (Credits: Clownagent) makes it in the XAE Advanced Weapons mod. Increasing your selection of rocket launcher ammo to 5 with the Elerium Rocket.

- Tweaks:
* Alien Alloy Ammunition: Shotgun and Sniper ammo only show up if the XCom Armoury Expanded mod is used (ie if you have shotguns and sniper rifles in the first place)
* Laser Blasters firing cost increased and minimum range added.
* Elerium Laser Blaster Explosive Powerpack now requires Elerium (1)
* Gauss Launcher accuracy increased
* Gauss Launcher Elerium ammo requires more Elerium (3), to bring it in line with the Elerium Explosives
* Elerium Laser Cannon and DE Gauss Cannon manufacturing cost brought in line with other items
* Elerium missiles pre-requisites changed to fit with Elerium Explosives
* Gauss weapons alien alloy requirements moved to XAE Research and Manufacture so they are no longer required if the mod is used alone, like lasers.
* Laser weapons research cost changed (Overall cost remains the same, cannon research is faster, at the cost of the other infantry weapons)
* Elerium Weaponization now requires some help from aliens
* Plasma weapons entry topic research cost increased.
* UFO Disassembly and Elerium Recovery now have extra UFOPaedia entries to list their produced items. The format sucks but it's the best I found.
* Tanks costs have been brought more in line with vanilla costs.

- Bug fixes:
* Fixed Elerium Laser Blaster hit animation
* Gauss weapons listOrder fixed
* Fixed research dependencies for Gauss weapons. They should be accessible, roughly at the same time as lasers.
* Gauss DE listOrder fix and Cannon Ammo fixed for crafts.
* HitSounds restored for DE Gauss Ammo. It should no longer crash upon hitting.
* Improved MediKit floorobs no longer conflict with Sectopod corpses.
* MagArmour and ScoutArmour UFOPaedia entries no longer show up before being researched.
* Elerium recovery from Plasma Rifles and Heavy Plasma clips no properly consumes the clips
* Laser Storm Pistol manufacture with XAE and Manufacture now takes Alien Alloys like all other laser weapons.
* Hovertank/Rocket can now be manufactured properly
* Fixed missing tank assembly/dismantling and UFOPaedia entries
* Grenade Launcher Flechette ammo now has proper hitAnimation.
* Changed the required terrain files for the Skywarden and Skyguardian. Tanks should be able to get off the planes now.

Stay tuned for more:
- XAE Attack Dogs: And expansion on the Attack Dog mod by Dioxine, adding two tiers of armoured dogs, corresponding to Personal Armour and Power Suit protection level.
- XAE Melee: Ever thought of slashing/smashing some aliens to bits? This module will give you all the tools you need to do so: Combat Knife, Alloy Knife, Alloy Sword, Laser Sword, Plasma Sword and Two-settings Elerium Mace.
- XAE Hard Mode: Add an extra challenge to your game! Makes research longer and more complex, weapon requirement changes, hovertanks explode on death if not stunned/exploded (like Cyberdiscs), etc. If you have ideas, let me know!

The XCom Armoury Expanded, v1.02:
Part1 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11918)
Part2 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11919)
Part3 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=11920)

The triple download remains, mostly because I want to thoroughly test things before posting to the mod portal.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Aldorn on October 31, 2014, 06:09:18 pm
Hi,
Regarding craft issue with HWP, I tested your mod (I downloaded it from header post of this topic)
In order to test this issue, I also replaced PLANE.MAP and PLANE.RMP in a fresh install, respectively with your skyaguardian then skywarden
I did not notice any failure with standard HWP (going out, drive some squares, then going back into craft)

Could you make an accurate description of this issue ?
Could you eventually provide options + installed mods (also all needed stuff to make it work from a fresh install) + savegame where it happens ?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on October 31, 2014, 07:07:44 pm
I found a few things regarding hovertanks.  I haven't updated yet so this is still for v1.01:

- The vanilla Hovertank/Plasma and Hovertank/Launcher still appear after finishing the Firestorm research topic.  So after researching the Hovertanks topic, there are two Hovertank/Launchers in the manufacture list.
- On that note, there seems to be no way to assemble a Hovertank/Plasma.
- Hovertank/Elerium Laser has no UFOpaedia text.  Or rather, it does but the text says "STR_HOVERTANK_ELASER_UFOPEDIA".
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on October 31, 2014, 07:13:10 pm
Wait I almost forgot, I also noticed something else.  There seems to be no HWP Cannon and Rocket ammo, I can't buy or make any.  I thought it's because they now use the aircraft ammo since the tanks are assembled with aircraft weapons, but the UFOpaedia entries still refer to the HWP ammo so I'm not sure.  Doesn't help that I don't actually use Cannon and Rocket tanks.

Also, the Lab Ship UFO has no UFOpaedia entry?  Actually, I'm not sure about that one; might just be a mod conflict.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 01, 2014, 02:55:38 am
Thanks again for the feedback!

Good point about the old hovertanks, I indeed forgot to remove the old manufactoring projects. I just looked at the plasma hovertank, I made a mistake with its prerequisites, thinking the research project was the plasma beam (since that's what the item is called) but it is actually a plasma cannon... Will fix all of this in the next version.

The missing Elerium Laser Hovertank UFOPaedia text has been added as of 1.02.

Regarding ammo, everything should be together, right above the Tank Hull in the purchase list. (See screenshot below) The tanks do use their own ammo. Maybe I should move the tank hulls to the very top, so that the ammo now sits at the bottom. Ie change from:

Tanks
Ammo
Tank hulls/corpses

to

Tank hulls/corpses
Tanks
Ammo

It would make it more visible in the purchase list I guess. Also note that the ammo does not show up in the "New Battle" items list, since they are not items that you put on a craft.

The XCom Armoury Expanded does not add or change any content for aliens, so it has nothing to do with lab ships UFOs. Where did you get that one from?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: lordkrike on November 01, 2014, 11:34:22 pm
Just to say, Arthanor, I really appreciate the work put in to this.

I know maintaining stuff like this can be a chore.  Thanks for your hard work!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 02, 2014, 01:53:35 am
Oh, the HWP ammo is there after all.  How did I not notice that?

So I agree, the ammo should be listed below the tank hull instead of above it.

The XCom Armoury Expanded does not add or change any content for aliens, so it has nothing to do with lab ships UFOs. Where did you get that one from?

Oh wait, you're right; the Lab Ship is actually from the Expanded Alien Armory mod.  I'm getting my Expanded Armories confused :P

Must be some kind of conflict with the Raider Ship from Hobbes' Terrain Pack because neither have UFOpaedia entries even though by all rights they should have.  Oh well, it's just UFOpaedia entries anyway...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Ascadix on November 02, 2014, 02:34:27 am
Oops .... crashed :o

Hello,

I have a weird crash in my game at the time of completing a production for :"reproduction pod dis."

using XAE 1.02

It seems to me that the root cause is in the Research_and_Manufacture ruleset, in the STR_DIS_ALIEN_REPRODUCTION/producedItems:

I have solved my crash by changing :  STR_ENERGY_CELLS: 1 for STR_ALIEN_ENERGY_CELLS: 1

this crash
Code: [Select]
manufacture:
  - name: STR_DIS_ALIEN_REPRODUCTION
    producedItems:
     STR_ENERGY_CELLS: 1
    listOrder: 4020

this pass
Code: [Select]
manufacture:
  - name: STR_DIS_ALIEN_REPRODUCTION
    producedItems:
      STR_ALIEN_ENERGY_CELLS: 1
    listOrder: 4020



but i haven't checked if there is other thing to change elsewhere
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 02, 2014, 03:26:34 am
Speaking of Research and Manufacture, would it be too spoilery to ask for a tech tree?  For subsequent games using the XAE, I'd like to prioritize certain research (like l4z0rz) and as such knowing the prerequisites for them would be very helpful.

Also... are alien electronics and energy cells used for anything other than research?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Ascadix on November 02, 2014, 04:03:24 am
### TANK UNLOAD FROM CRAFT PB ###

Hello, for those who have pb unloading tank from modded transport craft, could you try with an old build, the openxcom_git_master_2014_10_12_1240

I have some pb with this, and I have open a thread here:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=3072.0

I'm ok up to : openxcom_git_master_2014_10_12_1240
pb occurs from : openxcom_git_master_2014_10_13_0423

I have no build between those 2 to test deeper.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 02, 2014, 05:00:10 am
Turns out that I have a couple more questions.  Are the Raven and Sentinel crafts fueled with elerium?

And about the Lightning.  I noticed its fuel capacity has been bumped up to 1200.  That sounds like a lot of elerium... unless that's been changed?

Edit: I'm looking at the DE Gauss Cannon, and it seems to be barely an improvement over the regular Gauss Cannon.  The ammo needs elerium to be made, and for what?  Just 10 more damage, and nothing else...?  Also, I think the DE Gauss Cannon's UFOpaedia text got cut off a little.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 02, 2014, 01:46:26 pm
Turns out that I have a couple more questions.  Are the Raven and Sentinel crafts fueled with elerium?

And about the Lightning.  I noticed its fuel capacity has been bumped up to 1200.  That sounds like a lot of elerium... unless that's been changed?

According to the ruleset, all of those ships seem to use normal fuel. I think Lightning also use normal fuel in this mod.

Well, I think there are some questions around here but could I ask you some technical questions, Arthanor? I tried to find out the relevant information but couldn't.

[1] In your XAE_Utility.rul file, some new items got bulletSprite number from around 13 to 17. I thought you have to define each Projectiles for each bulletSprite number i.e. 455 to 595 in the extraSprites column. But there is only one such declare:

Code: [Select]
- type: Projectiles
    height: 27
    width: 105
    subX: 3
    subY: 3
    files:
      385: Resources/XAE_Utility/ProjectileSprite.png

, which I thought it can only define bulletSprite 11. It would be really grateful if you can give me at least some clue how this works: even in UFO wiki and this forum I couldn't find more information.

[2] I was playing with your mods with a slight modification for practicing rulesets. I just made a new ruleset containing every standard weapons from your mod (shotgun, grenade launcher, taser etc). The problem was that shotgun and grenade launcher seem to have some problem. At first grenade launcher was OK, but after I've bought shotgun and used them together, their shooting animation became somewhat laggy and delayed (sound first, animation next). Sometimes it just works though somewhat delayed, but sometimes only sound works and with no hitting animation the game freezes. My speculation was that the code line in XCom_Armoury_Expanded.rul was conflicing with the code above

Code: [Select]
  - type: Projectiles
    width: 57
    height: 3
    subX: 3
    subY: 3
    files:
      385: Resources/XCom_Armoury_Expanded/SniperRifle/BulletSprite.png

since both uses #385 (it wouldn't have caused problem in your mod since they come as a seperate ruleset). The problem is that even after I have changed the SniperRifle's bulletSprite number and Projectiles number to a different one (20, 700 each) still the problem remains. Funny thing is that my sniperrifle has no problem at all... I was wondering if this is a bug in your mod or there is something I've done wrong.

I attach my ruleset just in case. I ask you this additional question just in case it might be a bug. (The only thing other than combining rulesets was deleting codes about RPGs. Maybe that was the problem?)

[3] This is not a question, just a thought. Avenger takes 0 Elerium for consturction while Sentinel takes 150... I know that Sentinel is a very good fighter ship but still Avenger seems to be the best. Maybe because Avenger uses Elerium for fuel? Well, I can understand but the difference 150 seems to be quite large to me.

Other than these, I have to say I'm having a lot of fun with your mod plus of course other mods on it. Thanks!

[Edited: I currently use 10-24 nightly]




Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 02, 2014, 05:40:37 pm
@lordkrike: Thanks for the good word :) I am really glad to hear that you guys are using the mod and it's reaching beyond being my own little universe.

@BBHood217: The ammo is a bit hard to find, you're right. What I had originally intended was to have the tanks first, then ammo, then the hulls (since you would often not have many) but I agree the purchase list looks weird.

Actually, just re-enabling the purchase of pre-assembled basic tank like someone suggested before would fix that too. It would put some tanks above the ammo and allow me to keep the hulls last. Pre-assembled tanks will come at a premium though, since they're harder to ship and don't require assembly.

Regarding UFOs, it's funny that I never noticed even the name "Lab Ship". I have played with the AAE for as long as I have played OpenXCom.

@Ascadix: Good catch on the dismantling entry. There are so many things (and sometimes items change names too..). My apologies for the crash and thank you for figuring out the fix.

The tank issue is really annoying. It is interesting that you are finding a link with nightlies since I thought I had one too. v1.02 works for me with the most up to date nightly. Does it not work for you?

@BBHood217: I could look into making a tech tree. So many things are intertwined that it might take a while to get something that looks good though.

Alien Energy Cells and Electronics are purely research and extra money for now. I intend to eventually require them for armours, crafts and tanks, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

On crafts:
As described in its UFOPaedia entry, the raven uses a "Slow Burning prototype Elerium Engine" or some such, which means it requires Elerium for construction (ie activating the reactor) but not as a fuel item. The Lightning and Sentinel both also use that same engine.

The Firestorm and Avenger both use Elerium as fuel, and thus do not require it upon construction. The firestorm is the fastest interception craft available, and the Avenger is.. well the best at everything, except fuel economy.

This was done in an attempt to make every craft relevant. Sentinels are slow by design, otherwise they would overshadow the Firestorm, but to compensate their short range, they don't use Elerium as fuel.

The Raven becomes your mainstay interceptor (superseding the mostly human interceptor), which it would not if it required Elerium (then the Firestorm would always be better). The Firestorm still is more resilient and faster, however.

The lightning is usually a useless craft, but it fills the role of fast response team for small crafts and it can down it's small UFO by itself, making it quite useful. It never challenges the Avenger as the best fighter/transport though.

Overall, it gives a good variety in crafts (I use 6 different craft types in my endgames). As an example, in my games, I have most radar bases (4) with one raven as the best non-Elerium interceptor. They take out scouts and fighters. I also have two thunderstorms based at the poles with alloy cannons. I them use to take out small scouts (Mind Probe = $300k, I don't want to just destroy that).

I then have 2 sentinels, at opposite points of the globe, which are "hemispheric tanks". When something big shows up, the local sentinel gets out and will be leading the interception squadron. If you send multiple planes to engage an UFO, the first one to reach the UFO's maximum firing range will be shot at and the Sentinel can take it better than any other crafts (bar the avenger, but I need that one to carry its troops, not spend weeks in repairs). It will usually be supported by all available Ravens from the region to make the fight 4vs1.

In two other bases are my hemispheric fast response Firestorms. They are dispatched when I need to take out something NOW, or when Raven support is insufficient to take something out. Sometimes, if I know the Sentinels won't make it in time, they will fill the tank role as well.

Lastly, I have two bases with transports, one Skyguardian/Avenger with my "elite squad", one Skywarden/Lightning with my "rookie squad" which is getting training by recovering scouts from “easy” races (ie not gazers, mutons or ethereals).

Regarding the Gauss cannons craft weapons, I have to confess that I have not really looked into them. They are supposed to be short range high dps weapons like the starting cannon and the alloy cannon. Honestly, most of my crafts get Elerium Laser Cannons, which points towards some balance issues that I have not addressed yet. The Gauss cannons are mostly there because it would not make sense for them not to be, but they are a bit of a placeholder.

I have a list of craft cannons and damage (missiles are balanced independently) where the entry is “damage * accuracy / firing time, which gives you a DPS number, followed by the range:

Code: [Select]
- Cannon: 10*.2/2 = 1 @ 12
- Alloy: 14*.3/2 = 2.1 @ 12
- Laser: 65*.4/8 = 3.25 @ 21
- Elerium laser: 90*.4/10 = 3.6 @ 25
- Gauss: 80*.5/10 = 4 @ 14
- Elerium Gauss: 90*.5/10 = 4.5 @ 18 (40 shots/Elerium)
- Plasma: 110*.5/12 = 4.58 @ 48 (10 shots/Elerium)

So as it is, you gain .5 dps (almost reaching the damage of a plasma cannon) and a fair bit of range. It might be better than the Elerium Laser, although it does cost Elerium (but not much). The plasma cannon stats are taken from Moriarty's Plasma Cannon mod, which I use instead of the vanilla one.

Regarding bullet sprites (technical Qs 1-2), the number that are not defined are probably vanilla bullet sprites, so you don't need to redefine them. It's a bit weird the way it works: what you write in the item entry is 1/35 of the index you use in extraSprites. I have no idea why it would be slow. Also, all mods are indexed independently so it does not matter if you repeat an index (I often use 385 as a projectile index), as long as you don't overwrite a vanilla sprite.

3: The Avenger and Firestorm both use Elerium as fuel, so they do not require it to be constructed. The Raven/Sentinel/Lightning use the “Slow burning Elerium Engine” which you need to fill up once and then lasts forever, so they need Elerium to be constructed.

That's it, I think? If I missed something feel free to ask again. And once more, thank you for all the feedback and interest.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 03, 2014, 07:56:59 am
Wait, the DE Gauss Cannon's range is supposed to be 18?  Because it still says 14 in my game, same as the normal Gauss Cannon.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 03, 2014, 02:57:56 pm
I kinda solved my problem. I noticed that only buckshot ammo had the problem so just assigned bulletSprite 14 to that ammo and it doesn't freeze anymore  :D I think the laggy part is maybe due to my playing OpenXCOM with laptop. Anyway thanks for the information.

Today I was able to capture sectoid navigators and engineers in January, and even two of each! Just put the tank in front of the UFO and wait until they come out and use stunrods :D Well, this works only in TFTD damage formula mod since if not heavy plasma can quite easily even one-shot kill the tank...

Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 03, 2014, 04:24:52 pm
@BBHood217: Oh, well, another thing to fix for v1.03 ;)

@TaxxiDriver: The buckshot ammo for the grenade launcher is a rough one to use. I am on a crappy laptop too and I just don't use it. It is a 20 projectiles, long range shotgun, basically. Instead of calculating one trajectory to the impact point and then sending the flechettes in all directions from there, it is actually calculating 20 trajectories, then running 20 individual hit animations all at the same time.

I have been able to use it at very short ranges alright, but if I do a long range shot my computer just freezes. I think the explosive ammo works just as well for most purposes any ways, and doesn't crash computers. It surprises me that changing bulletsprites for it makes an improvement, as bullets are not shown for shotgun shots any ways. I might try it too, thanks for the suggestion!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Ascadix on November 03, 2014, 09:58:44 pm
Hello,

For the tank unload pb, it's ok with xae 1.02 and the last nightly.

I have still the pb, but it's with the SkyTrooper, not an XAE craft.


Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 03, 2014, 10:15:17 pm
Cool, I'm glad it's resolved :)

I am 90% sure that the problem lies in the terrain files. You can look in the ruleset you use for the Skytrooper, in the crafts section. There should be something that looks like:

Code: [Select]
    battlescapeTerrainData:
      name: SKYTROOPER
      mapDataSets:
        - BLANKS
        - SKYTROOPER
      mapBlocks:
        - name: SKYTROOPER
          width: 10
          length: 20

You could try to change it to:

Code: [Select]
    battlescapeTerrainData:
      name: SKYTROOPER
      mapDataSets:
        - BLANKS
        - PLANE
      mapBlocks:
        - name: SKYTROOPER
          width: 10
          length: 20

This changes the file from which the terrain tiles are loaded to create the Skytrooper, from the one which you originally got to the basic Skyranger one. I did that for the Skywarden and Skyguardian and it made things work.

I don't know what, but something got screwed up in the MCD/PCK/TAB with the ramp, which only becomes an issue with the more recent builds, not 1.0.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: XOps on November 03, 2014, 10:52:39 pm
I don't know what, but something got screwed up in the MCD/PCK/TAB with the ramp, which only becomes an issue with the more recent builds, not 1.0.

One of the nightlies changed how the battlescape engine interacted with any tiles are marked with a Big_Wall # in the mcd files. For some reason, the topmost ramp of the skyranger entry was marked as a Big_Wall. Before the game ignored it, but after one of the recent updates, the engine thinks that the HWP is trying to climb over a wall so it forbids it. I came across the exact same problem in a craft map I made and had to use a mcd editor to fix the ramp. How the normal Skyranger works though I am unsure of unless they are using an mcd patch in the rulesets for them.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 03, 2014, 11:05:52 pm
Well well well.. Looking into my XCom1Ruleset.rul, I came across this:

Code: [Select]
  - type: PLANE
    data:
      - MCDIndex: 13
        bigWall: 6
      - MCDIndex: 14
        bigWall: 6
      - MCDIndex: 49
        LOFTS: [6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6]
      - MCDIndex: 51
        LOFTS: [6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6,6]
      - MCDIndex: 62
        bigWall: 0

They are indeed changing stuff from the MCD of the Skyranger. I am not well versed enough in the map stuff to see if the ramps are indeed affected though.

That would explain why changing the call from a copy of PLANE.MCD renamed SKYWARDEN.MCD, to directly using PLANE.MCD for my modded planes made it work. By using PLANE.MCD, the Skywarden and Skyguardian both benefit from the ruleset patch, which they would not if they had their own MCDs...
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 06, 2014, 07:59:41 pm
Well well, things are quiet in here! I hope that means you're all having a good time in a bug free game ;) (and I fear you all just moved on :P).

A little bit of news/questions for you guys:

- Beware of the tank repairs. I am surprised nobody reported it yet, but as far as I can tell, repairing tanks should cause the game to crash as of v1.02. It will be fixed in v1.03.

Alloy Tank Armour will also be nerfed (a bit), since hovertank armour in the early game is too good (as evidenced by nobody losing a tank it seems..). The reasoning being that the alloy tank is still tracked and will get bogged down if it is too heavy, a problem that the hovertank does not have (so it can carry heavier armour).

- Graphics of the alloy armoured dog are done and I am pretty happy with them. Dogs should be released in v1.03.

However, I don't know if dogs are worth the investment of power suit level protection (and of me making yet another series of graphics). They're just dogs and are expendable (as harsh as that may sound), so it's not really worth it. Also, by the time you have power suits, you should have soldiers that will do much more for you than a dog will.

Using the possibility from nightlies to have 2 weapons for hwps, I am thinking of giving dogs a "Canine Senses" second weapon, which would be a low TU cost Motion Sensor. Gives you a reason to bring the dogs in most missions and that's in keeping with dogs being used to find people, not really as killing machines (that's what soldiers are for).

This will also fill their "hands" with 2 fixed weapons, preventing dogs from throwing grenades or using medkits. Since they can't use items anymore, I can now increase their carrying capacities to allow them to act as Anti-Tank dogs (carry HE Pack(s)) or as Logistics dogs (carry other stuff, maybe even enough strength to carry an unconscious soldier to the back lines) along with the Scout and Attack roles that the Bite + Motion Detector gives them.

- Building on 2 weapons for dogs, I will also be looking at 2 weapons for tanks. I won't make all the possible combinations (too many), but I am looking at: Rockets/Launcher + Auxiliary Direct Damage (Cannon/Gauss/Laser/Plasma but with fewer ammo or less power), Direct Damage + Auxiliary Rockets (fewer rockets), Main Weapon + Smoke Launcher. This would essentially triple the number of tanks (each existing tank getting 2 new variants) and I think that's arguably already too much. What do you think?

- The melee expansion pack has been postponed for the moment. I don't really know if it is needed after all. This is XCom, not 40k, and I would rather find a way to get good close range guns than have people waving swords.

- Hard Mode postponed until I finish my next project, an alien races collection + armoury. I am not really happy with the way individual alien race mods interact and, although the AAE is a great mod, I want to tweak it. Mainly change the endgame weapons to better handle XCom armours (ex.: keeping plasma pistols longer was a cool idea, but it really doesn't work for endgame). YetMoreUFOs is already taking care of UFOs so that part of the AAE has become obsolete as well.

So, that's what I've been thinking about. What about you guys? Anything you'd like to see in the XAE?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Ascadix on November 06, 2014, 08:34:16 pm
Hello,

I have little time, but :

- i have only assembled tank/laser and a-tank/e-laser, but they were never destroyed in mission (some time badly damaged, but still here :-) so, no repair and ... no crash

- for the crafts, i'm still testing, but it seems that the MCDPatchs: code in recent ruleset for SkyRanger an be used to "patch" the SkyTrooper ruleset so that tank can unload.


- for x2 weapons tank, i think it would be better not to have too much combinations, just some simple combinations of 1 area-damage weapon + 1 chirurgical-strike weapon.
The dual-tank should cary less ammo than a 1-weapon tank in all weapons and maybe be slightlyy less armored since weapons are weak points.

If possible, give priority to the precise weapon for reaction-shot.

-- tank : canon (or better : auto-canon or minigun) + rocket
-- tank : laser + rocket
-- a-tank : e-laser + e-rocket
-- a-tank : gauss + de-gauss

no pure alien-tech in dual-combinations
no hover with dual-weapons
no blaster + xxx
no plasma + xxx


- for tanks armor, maybe better armor/frame for a-tank than for hover, i think an hover shouldn't be heavier than a whelled tank, keep the balance so a-tank keep beeing usefull even with hover available
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 06, 2014, 09:20:12 pm
Thanks for the response. I'm glad things are working out. The MCD patches can probably be used, but I have found that those MCD files are usually copies of the Skyranger one any ways, so there's really no point in having them instead of using the Skyranger MCD for all those planes.

- Good point regarding reaction fire. It always uses the weapon with the fastest (lowest TU cost) snap shot. If it is not already like that, I will make sure that rockets are slower to fire than direct fire weapons.

- Although I agree with keeping the combinations limited, I do very much want a smoke + weapon tank. Firing smoke is a waste of a soldier action (no experience from it), so it is a good action for a HWP. Plus, tanks are unloaded first so having them fire smoke is very practical. I think in the end, tanks will be handled with 4 rulesets: Simple, Basic, 2xWeapons and Smoke+Weapons. That way everyone can pick what they like and not have crowded lists unless they want to.

- At first I thought like you, that the alloy tank should have at least as heavy an armour as the hovertank. The problem is how early it is accessible compared to the hovertank. With armour 130, it is too much for early alien weapons. Boosting alien weapons is out of the question because then the early armours for operatives become useless.

So I lowered the alloy tank's flank and rear armor (but not front) to keep the bonus the same on all facings compared to the regular tank (~50% increase compared to basic tank).

The hovertank needs to be better because it requires more resources to make (mainly Elerium for the reactor) and the benefit of flying, while major for snipers, isn't as great for a tank in the front lines, where I want tanks to be. It mainly makes it more visible/have less cover and exposes the weak under armour. Unless you keep it to ground level at which point you might as well use an alloy tank.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: XCOMFan419 on November 06, 2014, 10:36:50 pm
In my opinion, HWP should model modern vehicles, or at least as modern as they were back then. A main cannon, and a Coaxial cannon. For example, a Tank/Laser should require a Craft Laser Cannon and a Laser Rifle for a coaxial 'machine laser' for lack of better terms. Since most tanks have their main cannon in x calibre, most coaxial weapons are rifle calibre and rarely heavier to my knowledge. Most NATO tanks have a 7.62mm machine gun coaxial, equivalent to their LMG and some rifles. Ex-Warsaw Pact vehicles have a 50.cal coaxial and other nations vary.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 06, 2014, 10:46:56 pm
The main XAE Tanks do require the craft cannons to be produced (that's what you combine with the hulls to create the actual tanks). I never though of using rifles equivalents as their secondary weapons. I guess that may make more sense than having 2 cannon-grade weapons.

I am not sure about the combination though. RL tanks have explosive shells for their cannons, so having a coaxial rifle makes some sense to fire it together and guide the cannon. But in XCom, having a laser rifle + laser cannon is not really that useful, unless the rifle's TU cost is low enough to make sense in close quarters and the cannon's damage and accuracy are high enough to justify using it at longer range.

Maybe a combination of:
- Powerful but slow cannon with aim and snap shot.
- Rifle-equivalent with fast snap shot with an auto-shot at roughly the cost of the cannon's snap shot

I wish you could make it such that firing with the rifle increases accuracy with the cannon, but in XCom it's just a waste of TUs. The 2nd weapon is more of a defensive (short range rifle equivalent) or alternative weapon (2nd cannon-type weapon) than something you would fire along the main one (like a coaxial weapon should be). :/
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: XCOMFan419 on November 07, 2014, 01:53:23 am
Well, there was something that I thought of, but only applies to Conventional HWP to my knowledge. Most tanks have different kinds of shells. HESH, HEAT, etc. When I implement 2 weapon HWP the tank/cannon will have AP and HE shells, instead of a coaxial cannon, all things considered. Afterall, I guess you're right about the whole "Coaxial/Main cannon" argument for XCOM, since it'd just be a waste unless if it was high ROF but low-ish damage compared to the laser cannon.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: HelmetHair on November 07, 2014, 02:58:05 am
Im on my phone and will later  expand upon the topics you have brought up, Arthanor.

I will admit I love your mod but haven't  played at all with dogs. When using doggy senses is there a custom graphic with no grid lines? Dogs cannot communicate distance.... they are dogs. What is the TU cost to sniff around/ listen?

Do dogs have different movement TU costs or a very high energy or energy replenishment rate? Actually can dogs use alternate movement s at all?

I would like to see aerodynamic alien grenades.
Grenades that are large r(2x1) more exspensive in cash and elerium with 20% less damage but a weight of 1. So basically a discus grenade that is basically thrown far as it needs to.

Also guided grenades
Single use weapon with 2 and only 2 waypoints.. but could be OP.

Melee should be knife tomahawk and  sword.  For a few reasons.... knives are ubiquitous with the military since forever.swords for weeaboos and tomahawks cuz... well story time.

The first native American code talkers were not the Navajo, but the Choctaw during WWI. They being a bunch of okie natives would be in the trenches and would carry tomahawks or hatchets ordered out of the sears catalog. My great grandfather told me a story of being stuck and having to chop a dude in the face and throw it at another so he could run away.

Tank post later
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 07, 2014, 04:28:45 am
@XComFan419: The idea of using 2 weapon HWPs to represent different ammos is really interesting actually. It could be used for both the cannon (AP and HE) and Rocket (High Damage, low radius and lower damage large radius) HWPs. What's HEST by the way? I keep getting directed to HEAT (and even that I only learned recently because of Equal Terms..). I might steal the idea ;)

Although I also like the idea of both low damage, high RoF and/or low TU cost defensive weapons and smoke launchers as defensive weapons. So many options!

@HelmetHair: All I can do is define an item that is used as a motion detector, with different TU costs. It would cost something, but less than for an operative to use it. The interface would unfortunately be exactly the same as for the Motion Detector, although I agree that something without lines and a bit more uncertainty would be better. As far as I know there is no way to mod that.

The Dog Senses is an idea I came up with today, to make dogs more interesting since, like you, I never used them. I am trying to find ways of making myself want them, much like HWPs.

Regarding grenades, the saucer grenade is an interesting idea. I am not sure how useful it would be though, since experienced soldiers can throw pretty far already. Sound be simple to make though, I'll look into adding that to the XAE Utility.

As far as I know, there is no way to specify the number of waypoints an item uses, which means the grenade would have 10. Also, that kind of defeats the purpose of the Blaster Launcher (and guided missile for regular rocket launcher).

Knives are in, for sure, and I think I'll add an alloy version as well. Same thing for swords, a normal one and an alloy one. The laser/plasma ones I lost interest for. Hybrid melee and throwing weapons would be neat (cool story too :)) but throwing stuff doesn't hurt in XCom (unless it's a grenade). I could make it "snap shot" with an ammo of 1, but then it would be lost upon use and I think the only damage type possible for ranged weapons in melee is stun.

The OpenXCom engine is great, but sometimes it's tricky to make it reproduce even mundane items :/
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 07, 2014, 10:16:33 am
I finished my game not long after updating to v1.02, so now I'm just waiting for mods to finish (like this one with v1.03) before I start another game.  It's how I play OpenXcom.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 07, 2014, 10:58:03 am
I'm having a lot of fun using a variety of mods and making them up to my taste. Your mod is very user-friendly due to modularized rulesets so I think beginners can learn a lot from this and also quite a lot of other mods are also integrated in this so it's a very good starting point, indeed, I think.

So far no crashes nor bugs. Just one thing I hope...

I've used the Skywarden and it was... not good. The agents at the side doors were looking at the front so even turning around caused reaction fires. And overall, it has done more harm than good. I almost got completely eradicated on the following crashed UFO mission within a couple of turns (seems to be a terror ship, I guess).

(https://cfile10.uf.tistory.com/image/26108036545C82DD47D1A7)

(https://cfile7.uf.tistory.com/image/2638A336545C82DE099A99)

I really wish if those side doors could be replaced by automatic doors or something. If not, rather just blocking them would be better IMHO. If only I had enough knowledge about terrain files, then I could just have done that by myself, but I think dealing with terrain stuff seems to be quite challenging at the moment  :(

Other than that, so far having no problem. I actually lowered the tank armor but still seems to be quite sturdy  8)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 07, 2014, 06:08:16 pm
@BBHood217: I'll try to get v1.03 out to you soon.

@TaxxiDriver: Thanks for the good words!

Regarding your issue.. Man that is a harsh mission setup. Right in front of a terror ship, 4 cyberdiscs and 2 sectoids in view and you barely have any tech. In my games, the side doors of the skywarden/skyguardian have been really useful. Having only one exit point makes XCom crafts death traps if you happen to have aliens facing it and makes it very difficult to unload without overcrowding the door area, which means it's difficult to bring firepower to bear in the first (few) turns. I really dislike those issues and the side doors address them, but I can see how it may not be for everyone.

Without the side doors, the skywarden is just a slightly faster skyranger, so I don't think I would change it. If you don't like it, just keep using the skyranger.

The skyguardian is different since it gives you extra space and sports a weapon so it might be worth it to look into an alternative. Blocking the doors should be easy enough. I could make another craft with more armor and no door, that's unlocked along the skyguardian.

I did not know that turning got reaction fire. I recently learned how to design deployment orders for crafts so I'll make it such that troops in the skywarden and skyguardian face their exits (and also start in the craft rather than on the platforms).

Other than that, two things I have been doing to better use the side doors:
1 - Use the deployment order to make sure the right soldier is at the doors. The side doors are soldiers number 9 and 12 for the skywarden, 11 and 14 for the skyguardian. I have very strict operative roles and equipment.

At both the side doors and the main doors are my scouts: High TUs and Reactions (so they are less likely to be shot at) but low firing accuracy (otherwise they would be too valuable). They always carry some way to make smoke, be it the lowly smoke grenade, grenade launchers with smoke ammo or small launchers with smoke bombs.

If they see aliens through the doors, first thing they do is make some smoke. With the everything except the smoke grenade, you can center the smoke a bit further, with the smoke grenade it's usually just activating and dropping (Note: I don't remember what the option is, but it is totally possible to prime a grenade during the pre-mission phase, leave it on the ground and have it explode, giving you a smoke screen for "free" at the main door)

2- Support the doors! I always have soldiers with rocket launchers just next to the first men out. If they see something big, or a clump of small aliens, BOOM. Then they are followed by support soldiers (Heavy Cannons, AutoCannons, Gauss Launchers, Laser Blasters) who are in the middle of the craft and can exit by whichever door needs their firepower.

All that being said, deploying in front of 4 cyberdiscs and 2 sectoids (and presumably more) is always going to be difficult, especially with early tech.

How did you manage to down a terror ship btw? Do you use the XCom Armoury Expanded - Crafts? With the nerfs to crafts and craft weapons, I am surprised you managed it in what looks like early game.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: HelmetHair on November 07, 2014, 06:57:43 pm
Okay,

In my own personal opinion there should be some flexibility with tanks which your assembly methods offer. However, I know it is a pain in the ass to code all of them, but I personally know it would be worth it for me as a player.... Anyways, a few comments about HWPs and the Doges

A machine is a machine, and for that reasons should be viewed as an expendable piece of equipment. There are of course limitations within the Vanilla code that both incentivize and deter players on using HWPs which we are all aware of. However, with OXC we have the chance to expand the options available for HWPs to allow tactical doctrine to be as flexible as the player wants.

The mobility and armor and weapons/ equipment are all options that are all inter related to this concept of customization to the mission and wants of the player. So let us talk about how to go about this in an a logical approach.

We have two basic types of Chassis available.

-Tracked
-Hover


The advantages of either basic type of chassis should be fairly obvious. Hover Chassis have greater mobility by being able to fly, but even looking at the sprites we can see that there is less volume within the hover chassis. How can we balance that mobility against the apparent disadvantage that being stuck on the ground is supposed to be? BY making both tracked and hover chassis types become more survivable as the game progresses but with a higher ultimate survival rate  being able to be achieved by a tracked chassis to reflect a better understood, more mature technology. We see this in our world with technological developments becoming better and tougher over generations of equipment. So we would implement generations of equipment that follows the research into alien technology with each generation being greater than the last in some ways.

Tracked Generation progression
Gen.   quality     Cost     PDM  EDM   TT     TUs  Armor    Health  AA E FA RE

T-MKI    -Basic     100K   90%  %50  1/2    70   TV             90    -   -  50 20
T-MKII   -Better    250K  80%  %45   2/3    75   HV+5%     90     20  5 55 25
T-MKIII  -Badass   400K  70%  %40   3/4    80   HV+10%    100   25 15 60 30
T-MKIV   -Best      700K   60%  %35  3/4/5  80   HV+20%    110   30 20 65 35
T-MKV    -Booyah!  1.1 M  50%  %30  3/4/5  75   HV+25%    120   35 25 70 40


Hover Generation progression
Gen.   quality    Cost      PDM  EDM   TT     TUs  Armor    Health  AA E  FA RE

H-MKI    -Basic      200K  70%  %50  2/3    90    HV-20%    60     20 15 60 45
H-MKII   -Better     450K  65%  %45  2/3    95    HV-10%    70     20 20 65 50
H-MKIII  -Badass    600K  60%  %40  3/4    100   HV-5%     80     25 30 70 55
H-MKIV   -Best       900K  55%  %35   3/4/5  110  HV           90     30 35 75 60
H-MKV    -Booyah!  1.5 M  50%  %30  3/4/5  120   HV+10    100     35 45 80 65

PDM=Plasma Damage Modifier. 100%=1.0 etc
EDM=Exsplosive Damage modifier
TT=Turret Type
AA= Alien Alloys
E=  Elerium 115
FA= Firing Accuracy
RE= Reactions
TV= Tracked HWP Vanilla values
HV= Hover HWP Vanilla values


At each level the Chassis becomes tougher, but with a sliding scale of benefit tied not only in Monetary Cost but in Resources that should highly stimulate a feeling of diminishing returns and a feeling of you get what you pay for. Now how would that play out to be balanced is by tweaking not only the amount of armor, but the damage modifiers so at the upper ends we have a tracked HWP that is very hard to kill. What about Hover HWPs? Well they use technology that makes them a bit more fragile but their mobility more than makes up for it, but they are more costly in money and materials. Hover tanks also have advanced computers for plotting firing solutions and providing guardian angel overwatch, but are too short for a soldier to take cover behind, making them harder to hit.

Now this is just the Chassis We still need to provide a turret for the tank and we have a ton of options but we must take the programmers fingers and sanity into consideration (Love you Arthanor :) ) and think that most players are not going to probably drop a regular old cannon onto a MKV hover chassis And a regular old MkI would probably not have the ability to generate enough power to form a plasma bolt not to mention, the software for optimal performance.

So what I propose is turret type system which would be a system as well for turrets and equipment that encourages research and tactical flexibility for a superior player experience. ALL turrets would be two weapon or one weapon and equipment because it needs to be that way so a player feels it is worth it.

Turret Types

TT-1 $200K
LMG/Smoke     -Machinegun and pops smoke
Grenade/Smoke - HE grenades and pops smoke

TT-2 $300K
Cannon/Smoke launcher - 20mm with Snap, Aimed, and Auto shot. Pops smoke
Recoiless Rifle/Smoke- 105mm Anti-tank weapon single shot only
Rocket/ LMG - Small HE rockets and machinegun,

TT-3 $400K
Laser/Rocket- Laser Rifle and Large HE rocket launcher combo
Laser/Medkit- A medic tank with a laser LMG ***This may be a dog thing***
Laser/Smoke-  Laser Cannon and smoke popper.
Alien grenade/laser - Improved grenade launcher and laser Rifle

TT-4 $500K
Plasma/Smoke- Plasma Cannon and smoke launcher
Laser/Breacher- Laser LMG and a plasma cutter for UFOs
Stun/Breacher- Small launcher and Plasma cutter
Blaster/Smoke- Dumb blaster bomb and plasma rifle.

TT-5 $600K
Plasma/ Blaster- Plasma Rifle and Blaster launcher.
Plasma/ Breacher- Auto Heavy Plasma and plasma torch breacher.
Stun/Plasma- Small launcher/ heavy plasma


None of this covers weapon accuracy, or TU% which would need some love to function correctly, but is not insurmountable.
So we would have tanks that could have various roles and be wicked on the field, being tempered by the number of man hours required in research and manufacture. So what about dogs?

Dogs should be Fast, Brave, With High TUs and Energy and if they bite it, soldiers take a morale cut. Dogs would be great at "sniffing out" enemies, running down sectoids, mutons, and snakemen, acting as scouts, sappers and "fetching" gear (heh). They would however be pretty fragile but could be armored up or maybe even.... They've been at our sides since they realized what we could do for each other and involved in some capacity in every major war. Why would a war against aliens be any different?

Problems though... Zombie dogs, there is no differentiation if a pooch gets zombied, I'd actually be okay with them just dying because of biological incompatibility.


CyberDoges.

MK-2 Alloy teeth and claws with a powered exoskeleton. Body plates; fastest, strong.
MK-3 Full powered armor body replacement. Fast, strongest

thoughts?

-HH
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: XCOMFan419 on November 07, 2014, 08:05:44 pm
Sorry for the late answer:

HESH is High Explosive Squash Head.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 07, 2014, 08:26:46 pm
@XComFan419: The stuff I learn by playing XCom..! Thanks for the info, it was super easy to find on wiki now!

@HelmetHair: Cool stuff!

One thing to state at the beginning: I don't like the idea introduced in the new XCom of chopping off limbs from people and turning them into cyborgs. That's not XCom to me, that's Robocop and borders into 40k dreadnoughts (except it's done on healthy soldiers instead of wounded/near death ones, so it's even worse).

XCom is not a distopia, it's a utopia of everybody working together to stop the aliens (until some cowards sign treaties, at least). It's not based on a setting where life is cheap, it's in the early 21st century where human and animal rights are pretty strong.

So I won't go about chopping dogs or giving them metal teeth. I think at the beginning of the game, they have a place as attack dogs, especially once up armoured with alien alloys. But once the mid-game aliens enter, you don't send the dog to take out a snakeman and especially not a chryssalid. There's no way even an alien alloy set of dog teeth should compare to the damage inflicted by a laser/plasma shot and that's the kind of damage needed to engage those. It's even worse against mutons and especially ethereals (who could just fly up). So the roles of dogs need to change to scout and logistics, hence the doggy senses and carrying capacity.

Now onto tanks: I like the idea you are suggesting with the tank and turret progression. It's sort of what I was trying to do with the alloy hull allowing progression of the tracked tanks so they do not become obsolete so fast but I agree it needs more tiers. 10 different hulls (5 tracked, 5 hover) and 15 turrets is A LOT though, even by restricting the compatibility, you have about.. 50 different tanks in your proposal. There's no way a player would come close to using all of them.

One thing is, if you have too many tiers, a player doesn't spend enough time in a given one to make use of it. It would be easy to skip tier 1-2 tanks and go straight for 3, then wait until 5 to renew the armoury. Much like some players skip lasers to go straight for plasma in the original.

I think I'll take 3 tracked tanks (basic, alloy hull, heavy alloy hull + elerium engine) and 2 hovertanks (one equivalent to the best tracked tank, one better but really expensive). That brings it down to 4 tiers and 5 chassis, with T3 tanks seeing the most use.

I prefer the final hovertank to be better armoured except for under armour (because it doesn't feel gravity, so armour weight doesn't matter, but the lower part is taken up by more vulnerable anti-gravity devices). Armour could progress simply by tiers. The tracked tank would have better accuracy (it is on the ground, so it is more stable). Our understanding of anti-gravity being recent, our hovertanks are a bit wobbly.

This way you have a trade off of having great firing lines by being high, or great accuracy by being on the ground, no tank is the perfect sniper. Flying makes you more visible, but with the T4 one you have better armour to compensate. And if you hug the ground with your T4 hovertank, well you're an expensive, slightly inaccurate but up-armoured tracked tank. Seems like there's no clear winner that way. The more I think about it, the more I want the hovertank (at least the T5 one, maybe all tanks with Elerium Engines) to blow up like cyberdiscs too.

Also, vanilla hovertank+25% armour is 130*1.25 = 162.5 armor, even heavy plasmas would have a hard time with it, especially if using TftD formulas. I don't think tanks need to go much beyond 130. That's not taking into account damage modifiers, at 50%, no plasma weapon could scratch a tank (heavy plasma is 115 damage, 230 max with EU damage formula, half for the modifier is back to 115, less than even vanilla hovertank armour, let alone boosted one). Aliens have to be able to kill tanks and I don't think tanks should rival sectopods in terms of armour.

Regarding turrets, stun and breacher weapons are great ideas, and you missed Gauss ;)

Making a "limited but sufficient" selection of turrets and hulls is tricky. I wish there were a way to make it such that you can define a manufacturing project "Assemble tank" that takes 1 hull and up to 2 weapons and makes a tank, without having to define every possible combinations one by one, with associated assembly and dismantling. I would be easy enough to program (if only I knew C++...) and diminish the required modding work significantly.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: HelmetHair on November 07, 2014, 09:02:16 pm
Okay.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 07, 2014, 11:17:57 pm
I do use your craft's mod but modified so that even gauss cannons can be useful. At that time I had an interceptor and an obstructor, and got very lucky so all of 12 avalanche missiles hit the ship  8) I wasn't expecting that.

I also deliberately extended the overall research time and changed the weapon hierarchy to standard-gauss-de-laser-e-plasma(modified the stats heavily, too...). So I was only holding gauss rifles (60 damage) in February. You can start researching laser weapon after you've got a live engineer and researched gauss weapon. I could have done that but just wanted to test all the weapons, and anyway to research laser rifle I have to research gauss rifle before that. I have to say the gauss weapons look very cool and I'm very satisfied with them  8) Also I nerfted the cyberdisc's HE resistance to 0.8 (and the remarkable thing I want to mention is that it was still a damn horrible monster, I'm serious).

Yeah, it was a hard mission and 2 scouts and about 4 squads died on the mission (it was the first mission I used the ship so I didn't know the feature of the ship and about half of them died on the first turn, so I just reloaded it  ::)). Drawing every reaction fires using scouts and using HE packs let me survive the harsh conditions. I think the loot was incredibly profitable (around 4 million?  ;D)

I do like the side door feature but especially on large and very large ships, on superhuman difficulty, due to the increased number of aliens, the cases those were useful were significantly less than the cases those were rather harmful in my experience. Anyway if the front door is the only gate then scout drones or tank can draw some fires so Skyranger was actually more safe, ironically. But I also liked it since I don't have to pay the damn monthly payment, of course! I think I just have to copy the skyranger file and create a new ship that can be similary manufactured and it would be OK  :)

BTW is automatic door not possible? It would be REALLY REALLY REALLY lovely if those open spaces are replaced with automatic doors...

Oh, I forgot to mention this, but the grenade launcher's buckshot ammo still seems to be a problem for me. I think the previous remedy was only temporary  :( I think it's just because my laptop is not that good so never mind that, though.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: Arthanor on November 08, 2014, 03:40:41 am
Your tweaking the craft and infantry weapons intrigues me. Would you mind sharing your modified rulesets?

I get what you're trying to do with the infantry weapons (delaying progress). I have an expansion mod planned to do that (just no time to do it right now). But in the end, no matter if you can research lasers alongside gauss or after them, the investment in researching both remains the same. You are likely to finish both lines later, but will gain some items faster. In this case, I really like how you get the heavy laser + gauss pistol, then both rifles (gauss sniper is really good, regular laser rifles are too). How do you justify lasers coming up later? They are not really an alien tech either.

As for the craft weapons, gauss cannons make good support weapons. Send your toughest crafts first (probably armed with lasers to be able to engage from further and disengage easier if severely damaged), then follow up with crafts with gauss cannons since they have higher dps. Down the UFO faster and suffer less damage overall. I don't know if they need tweaking (although I tend not to use them much because I am too lazy to keep an eye on ammo).

Automatic doors are available in the lightning terrain I think, but I think they would look stupid mixed with the skyranger tiles. Otherwise, I agree with you that they would be awesome to use (even if you have to spend TUs to open the doors, which wouldn't be that great).

I could make it so that the 3rd and 4th soldiers start at the side doors, allowing the 1 tile scout drones to deploy from there to soak up some reaction fire. Do you guys think that would be an improvement? I don't use scout drones (I think they're much too fast and useful for 1999 robots), but I am about to use dogs and I think deploying them from the side doors could be cool. Hum.. interesting opportunity.. I'll devise a new deployment order for those guys we can look into it.

Regarding the buckshot, it is really computer intensive to fire 20 rounds at once over a great distance. It has crashed my game before too and now I stay away from it. It does sort of work at short ranges though. Does it crash even at short ranges for you?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 08, 2014, 02:25:00 pm
Well, here are some of my modified rulesets heavily based on several different mods (thanks, everyone!) and some relevant information (I'm using the excel file to organize things: just adding things when I have some free time  :D). I'm just messing with a lot of different rulesets and testing them so don't expect any quality  ::)

I've modified a lot of different things and trying to rebalance everything as I play the game so I don't think explaing all of them are useful (anyway, what I want is Your mod's development  :)))

(1) I thought about two different approaches about weapon technology (since anyway I didn't want to throw out the Gauss weapons). First, giving them different traits so that they can be both useful even at later games. Second, setting up a general hierarchy. Actually, both approaches can be fulfilled at the same time. The difference comes from the weight one wants to put between them. I decided to put more weight into the second part, but I find no reason putting more into the first part is not equally viable.

(2) For the justification, well we always can find sound reasons to back up things, you know  ::) I justify every mods when they can bring fun and challenge, simple that is. Technically, as I said before, I'm modifying the whole structure so that everything can go well with each other. For example, I'm going to increase the AP and HE resistance of later aliens so that the effectiveness of standard issues and Gauss weapons will dwindle as time passes by. It is really nothing but an option depending on my previous decision. So if you want to put more emphasis on the diversity of weapons, you might want to also diversify the armor types of aliens so that each weapon can make some voice even later on. Here comes the variety of mods  8)

(3) For the craft and craft weaopns, I think I need more experience about UFO battles. The hot potato is of course the avalanche. Due to its long range, I really didn't feel any reason to build a more durable craft. I'm going to change it drastically, but now I just need more experience and observations  :)

Hope it helps.

P.S. The buckshot ammo sometimes works and sometimes not. I guess it might be related with the range as you've said.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: BBHood217 on November 08, 2014, 03:06:02 pm
@BBHood217: I'll try to get v1.03 out to you soon.

No no no, not to me.  To us ;)

Also, turning does not actually trigger reaction fire.  If one turns around to move, that'll definitely get them shot; but turning alone shouldn't cause reaction fire.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.02
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 08, 2014, 03:17:34 pm
Also, turning does not actually trigger reaction fire.  If one turns around to move, that'll definitely get them shot; but turning alone shouldn't cause reaction fire.

I think I mistakenly regarded kneeling as turing around  :P Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 11, 2014, 10:37:53 pm
Version 1.03 is now ready! Providing you with:

New Modules:
- Attack Dogs: Dioxine's original Attack Dog, now with an improved Armoured Attack Dog variant, with more transport capability. Currently, both "hands" of the dogs are taken, preventing it from using weapons (in Nightly version). Once I figure out how to make it work, this mod will include the "Dog Warning System" (ie a motion scanner for dogs).

Tweaks:
- Pistols now have a ~20 tiles aim shot range, after which they suffer from drop off in accuracy. No more pistol snipers!
- Shotgun and Sniper Rifle modded weapons and ammunition now require the XCom Armoury Expanded mod. (ie if you don't want to use shotguns and sniper weapons, turning off the XCom Armoury Expanded will also disable Alloy Ammo for Shotguns and Sniper Rifles, Gauss Sniper Rifles, etc.)
- Tanks are now ordered by weapon, followed by their ammunition. This should make it easier to navigate. Pre-assembled cannon and rocket tanks are once again available for purchase.
- Allow Tank Side/Rear/Under Armour has been decreased. All side now gain the same % of armour compared to the starting tank.
- The Skywarden and Skyguardian now have deployment schemes allowing your troops to face their nearest exit. Please make sure to disembark the crafts in a safely manner. ;)

Bug fixes:
- Alien Reproduction Disassembly no longer should crash the game.
- Mind Probe Disassembly is now properly written.
- Vanilla tank manufacturing projects are no longer available.
- Plasma Hovertank Assembly and Dismantling are now available.
- Repairing tank wrecks now properly produces a tank hull instead of crashing the game.

Coming up next:
- XAE Spec Tanks: Specialized tanks for either close or long range support. Assembly of tanks with two turrets weapons will now be possible. Close range support variants will come with a smoke launcher and a main weapon with higher rate of fire. Long range support variants have higher firepower and a defensive weapon.

The XCom Armoury Expanded, v1.03:
Part1 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=12085)
Part2 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=12086)
Part3 (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2675.0;attach=12087)

The triple download remains, since I want to thoroughly test things before posting to the mod portal.

Please let me know what you think of the different tiers of weaponry. Are there some clear winning weapons? Ones you never use? How do you arm your squads?

I personally tend to go with defined roles:
- 4 scouts, with laser pistols or rifles, some grenades, motion scanners
- 2 snipers, with gauss sniper rifles and laser pistols
- 2 rocketeers, with rocket launchers, 3x large rockets, 1x Guided Missile and gauss pistol
- 4 breachers, with 1x gauss pistol + 1x Laser Storm Pistol (later plasma caster + plasma pistol)
- 2-4 support troopers, with Grenade Launchers, Laser Sniper Rifles, Heavy Gauss/Laser, Laser Blasters and/or Gauss Launchers, depending on the mission and tech levels.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 12, 2014, 09:14:52 am
Uhh, I think you forgot a couple of WAV files.  Namely:
Resources/Doge/DogeAttack.wav
Resources/Doge/DogeDeath.wav

very error :(

Edit: Solved it by getting the WAVs from the original mod.  Now everything's running smoothly... so far.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 12, 2014, 06:22:37 pm
hahaha *facepalm*

Indeed, I forgot to change the paths and provide the files. Worked for me since I used to use Dioxine's Mod. Stupid. Always something sneaking through!

Sorry! I'm glad you managed to make it work though! I've updated the download now.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 15, 2014, 02:07:31 pm
Just bringing up a few things:

- Am I imagining things, or does it take too long to research the Reinforced Shotgun?
- I have to research STR_XAE_UNLOCK and STR_GAUSS_ENABLED.  At least they only need 1 scientist each.
- I see options to repair armors, except for the Personal Armor, Power Suit, and Flying Suit.  Is repairing armors even a thing yet?
- I have the UFOpaedia entry for Armored Attack Dogs before I've researched Personal Armor to be able to make them.
- I thought you've already disabled the dog's inventory and empty hand.  Or is it because I'm not using a nightly?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: XCOMFan419 on November 15, 2014, 04:15:33 pm
Repairing armours is very much a thing. I have it for every playthrough. I think you just have to set corpses to recover: yes and name them, then set the manufacturing rules. It's a much more convenient way to play XCOM, than rebuilding every single armour you lose. Especially when it comes to mid-game and soldiers are dropping like flies in personal armour. (And before you ask, yes I put them in cover and stuff but they seem to always find a way to get flanked/shot from behind cover)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 15, 2014, 05:23:55 pm
Oh.. Well well..

- you're not imagining. The reinforced shotgun takes a really long time. It is currently as provided earlier in the thread and I have not gotten around to working on it. Honestly, until I figure out a way to further delay research to warrant another weapon tier for alloy weapons, I don't think I'll look more into it. The XAE is modular, if you don't like a module don't use it. I currently don't use this one but wanted to provide it since it was shared earlier.

- did you start a fresh game with the mod? I know you have to research them if you activate the mods midgame, but I thought they wouldn't show if you start a fresh game. They cost 0, so should be really fast to clear up. Will look into them (at the very least give them a name if they have to show up).

- repairing armors is indeed very much a thing. The vanilla armors are taken care of by the grav armor mod, which I strongly recommend to use with the XAE. I have noticed a few issues with it with nightlies though, so it will eventually be integrated.

- eh.. Always forget about the UFOPaedia

- the empty hand is disabled if you use nightlies for the 2 weapon HWPs. Essentially it is filled with exactly the same weapon but no picture. In 1.0, you can only define one weapon so it is impossible to block the hand. The inventory is intended to be available: dogs can carry stuff. The first one has a strength of 2 so can really only carry light stuff. The armored vest comes with straps and pockets so the dog can carry a big more.

I have also noticed that non-weapon items go in the backpack instead of the hand, making the doggy senses motion detector entirely useless as a fixed "weapon": it is stuck in the backpack. I made a hack that works for testing, but it's a bit ugly (and wouldn't work in 1.0 either).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 15, 2014, 06:13:52 pm
It seems I can also get damaged armors at the end of combat from unconscious (not dead) soldiers, basically duplicating the armors after I repair them.  I'm sure this is already well-known, though.

I did indeed start a fresh game with the mod.  STR_XAE_UNLOCK and STR_GAUSS_ENABLED were still there along with the three starting research topics.

Another thing about dogs.  They seem to take up a lot of storage space.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 15, 2014, 08:54:14 pm
I suspected the armor thing but never investigated. I'll add it to the list.

Stupid research. I'm pretty sure I had other strings that worked.

Dogs do take a lot of space, but nothing in the living quarters. I think it makes sense since kennels would take a fair amount of space. More than the storage space for a tank easily, since tanks don't need to move much.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 18, 2014, 05:21:41 pm
Some stuff:

- The Skyguardian still has an HWP capacity of 16.  Is it so that 1 soldier can take 15 attack dogs out for a walk?
- Can I still make a Hovertank/Plasma with the vanilla Plasma Beam (i.e., not using moriarty's Plasma Cannon mod)?
- Is the Dragon's Kiss ammo of the Reinforced Shotgun implemented (in a normal game I mean, not in New Battle)?  Because I cannot find it anywhere at all and it never showed up for research.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 18, 2014, 06:01:39 pm
- The skyguardian is indeed intended to have the ability to support special units. You can take 15 dogs, or a mix of dogs, enforcers and scout drones on a mission should you wish to.

Honestly, the first ruleset I used for the skyguardian and skywarden had that as a feature (I guess whoever wrote it really liked HWPs) and I kept it. I could drop it to.. 4 maybe? If that seems more reasonable to you guys. I don't use HWPs much (although I am loving the dogs with motion sensors! If only I could make them work properly for release..) so it doesn't matter to me.

- There should be no issue making a Hovertank/Plasma without Moriarty's mod. It depends on the same research as the vanilla craft weapon and hovertank. (Note: You also need Hovertank research, which requires New Fighter Craft for the construction and Cyberdisc Autopsy for the automation).

- The Dragon's Kiss ammo is indeed impossible to research as the mod is currently written. It will be fixed in the next update. I probably should not have shared this mod yet, as I did not make it, use it or balance it.

Currently, I don't know how to integrate alloy firearms in the progression. It happens too fast, taking away the need for the starting weapons and alloy ammo. At that point, the aliens can't cope with stuff like an automatic shotgun either. They need armor, which they don't get until snakemen show up.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 18, 2014, 10:08:13 pm
Alright, I've just finished working on integrating the armor repairs to the XAE fully. Just need to test it when I have time. On the stunned soldier armor duplication, there's nothing I can do. It is an artefact of the way it is done. I have made a report in the Troubleshooting section with a suggested fix. We'll see where this goes (but like the rest, it will only ever go in the Nightly).

I have started thinking about the 2 weapons tanks and I have come up with a 5 tiers, 3 roles system. Tiers represent the "tech level" of the weapon combination. The three roles are: close, mid and long range support (C, M and L, respectively). Here are the combinations I have:

Base
T0C: Cannon+Smoke (Handled like the grenade launcher)
T0L: Rocket+Cannon
T1C: Laser+Smoke
T1L: Gauss+Rocket

Alloy
T1C: Laser+Smoke
T1L: Gauss+Rocket
T1M: Gauss+Laser

T2C: ELaser+Smoke
T2L: DE Gauss+Rocket
T2M: DE Gauss+ELaser

Hover
T2C: ELaser+Smoke
T2L: DE Gauss+Rocket
T3C: Plasma+Smoke
T3L: Plasma+Rocket
T4:  Launcher+Plasma
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 19, 2014, 11:08:23 am
I just had a chryssalid kill an armored attack dog.  And the dog turned into a zombie.  A human zombie, not a dog zombie.

I'm like, "wat".
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: pkrcel on November 19, 2014, 01:09:47 pm
ALL 1x1 units can be Zombified in "standard" openxcom, even non-biological ones (scout drones for example).


Openxcom extended project implemented a feature that allows for zombification to be prevented with an armor flag...we all hope this will be pulled in the main branch sooner or later....you know for that anti-chrissalid armor we want so badly  :P






Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on November 19, 2014, 02:12:29 pm
Not all 1x1 units.  MC a chryssalid and have it kill an alien.  It dies and there's no zombie, so a way to prevent zombification is already implemented.

Although it's probably only a simple "enemies cannot become zombies" line or something.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 19, 2014, 04:03:38 pm
Maybe the chryssalid made it into a werezombiedog? It's hard to tell with the pixelated graphics (although I bet it was wearing a jumpsuit):P

I suspect you are right and zombification "only" works on all 1x1 XCom units. Sadly, there is nothing I can do about that. Would be interesting to try using a MC'd chryssalid to attack a soldier that has been MC'd by aliens. But that's unlikely to happen since snakemen are not psychic.

Ideally, one day we can define what kind of zombie is produced by a unit and we can have dog zombies (and the absence of a zombie unit could denote immunity), like how we can define what a unit turns into upon death for zombies and spitters.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: HelmetHair on November 19, 2014, 09:37:14 pm
Zombie Dogs..Chrysanines?

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

On another note, how tough are your tanks going to be?

-HH
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Warboy1982 on November 19, 2014, 09:54:23 pm
you're clearly not using the nightlies.
that was fixed a while back (https://github.com/SupSuper/OpenXcom/commit/8231720831af715e926c6891a6e709efd3765b51)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 19, 2014, 10:45:28 pm
@HelmetHair: Technically, if you could pick the zombie unit that is created, it could be possible! :) There the graphic work for a zombie dog too though.

Regarding tanks:
Currently the stats (Front/Sides/Rear/Under) are:
Regular tanks: 90/75/60/60 (as per vanilla)
Alloy tanks: 130/110/90/90
Hovertanks: 130/130/130/100 (as per vanilla as well)

The alloy tank is a big improvement on the starting tank (maybe still too big?) for only an investment in alien alloys and a little bit of research, especially against the aliens rather weak starting weapons (pistols are useless, rifles not so good.. grenades are ok but rarely used). Of course, you have to manufacture it.

It's hard to balance for me since I prefer soldiers to tanks to begin with, so I don't use them much.. They correspond to tiers 1 to 3 of my intented tanks, missing the tier 3 ground tank (Elerium Engine + heavier plating) and tier 4 hovertank.

The dual weapon tanks I am working on currently will be the same hulls as the current alloy tank and hovertank. There will other rulesets (XAE Advanced Tanks and XAE Advanced 2W Tanks) with the T3 ground tank and T4 hovertank shortly after the release of XAE 2W Tanks (It should be a relatively quick matter of find and replace plus tweaking some numbers in the Tanks and 2W Tanks mods). That will probably be accompanied by a rework of the stats too (tanks are really inaccurate...)

@Warboy: I'm not sure what the commit you showed actually does. It looks to me like it takes respawns out of specabs (so you can have a unit which burns stuff when walking/explodes on death AND respawns?) but I can't see how to use that.

Unless it allows a certain respawn value to prevent zombie creation? Or to provide which units a dog would turn into when zombified while still allowing the dog to die normally when not zombified.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Warboy1982 on November 20, 2014, 12:39:59 am
ExplosionBState, line 270.

&& (victim->getGeoscapeSoldier() || victim->getUnitRules()->getRace() == "STR_CIVILIAN")

translation: only soldiers and civilians get zombified.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 20, 2014, 04:49:54 am
Ooh, I see! That makes sense. Dogs have incompatible genetics I guess.. Too bad for the werezombiedog idea. That's still pretty cool though. Thanks for the heads up!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: HelmetHair on November 20, 2014, 05:16:11 am
@HelmetHair: Technically, if you could pick the zombie unit that is created, it could be possible! :) There the graphic work for a zombie dog too though.

Regarding tanks:
Currently the stats (Front/Sides/Rear/Under) are:
Regular tanks: 90/75/60/60 (as per vanilla)
Alloy tanks: 130/110/90/90
Hovertanks: 130/130/130/100 (as per vanilla as well)

The alloy tank is a big improvement on the starting tank (maybe still too big?) for only an investment in alien alloys and a little bit of research, especially against the aliens rather weak starting weapons (pistols are useless, rifles not so good.. grenades are ok but rarely used). Of course, you have to manufacture it.

It's hard to balance for me since I prefer soldiers to tanks to begin with, so I don't use them much.. They correspond to tiers 1 to 3 of my intented tanks, missing the tier 3 ground tank (Elerium Engine + heavier plating) and tier 4 hovertank.

The dual weapon tanks I am working on currently will be the same hulls as the current alloy tank and hovertank. There will other rulesets (XAE Advanced Tanks and XAE Advanced 2W Tanks) with the T3 ground tank and T4 hovertank shortly after the release of XAE 2W Tanks (It should be a relatively quick matter of find and replace plus tweaking some numbers in the Tanks and 2W Tanks mods). That will probably be accompanied by a rework of the stats too (tanks are really inaccurate...)


Just remember that it is a machine that is specifically designed to be shot at so humans lives are not spent in its place. That is seriously the point of an HWP. All the guns, ammo, and WTFE don't matter if a tank can't TANK . Tanks should be used to bully an alien. I mean seriously... if you are worried about them eating it because little skiiny Sucktoid  shot it with a plasma pistol and it just folds up , then it is useless.

The tanks in Equal terms reflects this pretty well...they are power pieces and taking a GMG/GL tank for a spin will give you some perspective on this... Roll out one into the field under cover of smoke and proceed to allow the aliens to shoot the shit out of it, revealing their position and giving you a quick option to break the building down on their ass, shoot them to pieces,  or use the tank as cover (duck behind it)  and stun his ass.

Love the doges though... so useful... so Fucking useful.

-HH
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 20, 2014, 11:01:46 pm
I'm glad you enjoy the dogges. If you find those useful, you should see the ones with doggy senses. I can't make them work properly with the current version, unfortunately, so I have not released them. Non-weapon items don't get put in hands, so the scanner goes in the backpack.. I have a hacked solution to make it possible, if clunky and exploitable, which I could upload as a test mod I guess.

For tanks, a plasma pistol's mean damage is 52, that's 26 to 78 or 0 to 104 damage, depending on the formula you use. That means a starting tank is pretty safe using TftD formula, unless shot at the rear. Sides are also somewhat vulnerable for EU formula. But that's acceptable I'd say. The Alloy tank is immune to pistol shots except for the rear armor with EU formula.

For rifles, the alloy tank is still pretty much immune to the front and side with TftD formula (40-120 damage), but can be hurt more reliably using EU (0-160 damage). It should survive a salvo though. Heavy plasma is a danger later in the game, even with 130 armor, but that will be the point where you will roll out the T3 tank and T4 hovertank which will come with plasma resistance and/or heavier armor (gained from sectopod research).

I agree that tanks should be able to tank (and that weapons are a secondary concern), but it becomes problematic/exploitable when aliens can't deal with a tank and the AI is not willing to switch target. Players don't shoot cyberdiscs with pistols, RL soldiers don't shoot tanks with rifles, but we can't prevent aliens from shooting tanks with inappropriate weapons, so those must have the possibility to do some damage at least.

I am thinking of doing things such that a tank can survive a round of fire from a few aliens of its tier (starting tank vs pistol, alloy tank vs rifle, advanced tank vs heavy plasma). With the possibility to repair a tank hull, getting a destroyed tank is not really that dramatic. You lose the weapon(s) installed on it (~200k for more advanced weapons) plus repair costs and time. I think that's acceptable if it otherwise would have been a veteran (or a few).

Using a tank to save rookies in the early game is a different thing though. Sadly, rookies are one of the most expendable thing in XCom, except dogs I guess. But at that point, using (and potentially losing) the tank can be the only way to victory, which again makes it worth it.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 21, 2014, 12:49:20 am
Developers might hate me, but I think letting the possibility of zombification for other units might be great, not just restricting it :-\ It gives a lot more freedom for ruleset-modders.

By the way, does the flying armor(power armor) use the same sprites as flying suit(power suit)? I think maybe giving a slight change would be nice.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 21, 2014, 01:30:34 am
Well, if it's not a civilian and it's not a soldier, it's a HWP or alien. It could be interesting to have zombifiable aliens (where the zombie remains under alien control?), but it's not necessary and not in vanilla either.

For HWPs, they are supposed to be mechanical, or dogs, which probably don't have a compatible biology, much like the aliens (if that's the excuse we want to use). The best ruleset would be to define whether a unit can be turned into a zombi and what kind of zombie it should turn into.

However, even if you do that, one can come up with a new different way of making zombies that turn into something else and the whole system breaks down. Keeping humans as the only zombifiable target keeps it simple (but unfortunately prevents MiB operatives from becoming zombies, maybe they have the antidote?!).

Power/flying armor do have different graphics from power/flying suits. Unless I messed up something in the release. They are supposed to look like this:
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: TaxxiDriver on November 21, 2014, 01:40:49 am
Is it possible to define a dog as a 'soldier'? I don't think so, but if it becomes possible, some modders who want their new type of 'soldier' to be able to get zombified would find it to be useful. But I really don't know which way would require less coding...

For the armors, yes you were right... I was somehow messing with the 1.02 and 1.03 and moved the suit images to the armor folders, I guess. Sorry for that. I knew that the sprites were indeed different because I've seen them in the game lol
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 21, 2014, 02:02:46 am
I'm glad the armors work!

There will be a major rework of the armors modules in v1.04-v1.05. I have integrated the grav armor mod in the XAE, so 1.04 will now have grav modules and flying personal armor (early snipers rejoice!) and armor repairs for all armors. (And 2 weapons tanks for those using the nightly)

I just came up with a way to add markings to armors as well, using different colors for the shoulders, but that's just in the design phase right now. It will likely be released in 1.05, along with the advanced tanks.

I need to work on my alien mods too.. the Christmas break is not coming quickly enough..

For zombies, unfortunately, the game only supports one kind of soldier right now. Many modders dream of the day when we can have multiple soldiers.

That would open up the possibility to recruit different kind of soldiers (rookie, soldier, vet?), make classes with different stats (snipers cap at higher firing accuracy, scouts at higher TUs, breachers at higher reactions, etc.) or even, if soldiers ever get added as a useable item for manufacturing, cybernetic/gene spliced soldiers. But that's not happening until major work is put in it (sorry for the tease :P), since only 1 kind of soldier is hardcoded.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 22, 2014, 07:34:01 pm
Man it's quiet here. No excitement for armor markings and early flying armors? Good thing one is just stealing work and the other is stuff I will enjoy :P

This post (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=3064.msg35144#msg35144) caught my attention (I don't know why I did not see it before) and I was thinking.. maybe I should add a redesigned Lightning to the XAE? I have been using one for a while and it works pretty well (see below).

I'm not 100% happy with it (it's too square and the inside could be cleaned up a bit), which is why I never thought of sharing, but if there's demand, why not?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: NoelBuddy on November 22, 2014, 08:20:54 pm
Developers might hate me, but I think letting the possibility of zombification for other units might be great, not just restricting it :-\ It gives a lot more freedom for ruleset-modders.

They did that to solve the problem of probes and other one-square HWP equivalents becoming zombifyed... if someone is capable of writing a branch that allows more zombie control without breaking anything else a good argument to merge it with the main branch could be made, but otherwise the developers have bigger fish on their plate to fry.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on November 22, 2014, 09:30:49 pm
Hopefully, one day the game can handle multiple soldiers type (each with their own zombie sprite) and we won't have these issues. HWPs will be restricted to mechanical units, dogs can be "soldiers" so can turn into zombies, etc. But that's not something that will come anytime soon any ways.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on December 01, 2014, 10:15:51 am
I can't repair alloy tanks.  It specifically requires an Alloy Tank Wreck, but all I have is an ALLOY_TANK_CORPSE_1 which it doesn't accept.  I dunno if this also extends to the other tank wrecks.

In the meantime, I guess I'll sell the CORPSE_1 and just make a new hull.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on December 01, 2014, 07:24:05 pm
Tank corpses don't follow the usual naming convention of OpenXCom. Try this ruleset instead.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on December 02, 2014, 10:22:23 am
Well, now the repairs require CORPSE_1's instead of Wrecks.  But I think that means it'll work now, though I haven't tested it yet because I take very good care of my tanks :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on December 02, 2014, 06:27:38 pm
hehe That's good. Or maybe it means the armor needs to be nerfed? :P

I've updated the ruleset above to have the proper string definitions so the wrecks no longer show up as corpses_1.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on December 03, 2014, 08:44:49 am
After losing a hovertank to a pair of mutons with heavy plasmas, I can confirm that the wrecks are correctly named Wrecks and perfectly repairable with no issues.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on December 03, 2014, 03:16:59 pm
Cool stuff!

Since we're talking about tanks, what would you guys think if assembling alloy and hover tanks required Alien Electronics (the targetting computer that goes in the turret) and Alien Energy cells (for tanks with energy weapons)?

It would make these components more useful, although it would make the tanks more resource intensive. Dismantling a tank would of course give you those back, although a destroyed tank would lose them.

I am also starting to think about further work with weapon ranges. Basically trying to make pistols and shotguns the the main breaching weapons, rifles for short-medium range, heavy and blasters for medium range, sniper for long range.

This is mostly relevant to the heavy weapons which are great at everything (especially plasma). My view of them is that they should be too cumbersome to use at short range, and too heavy to aim precisely enough to use at long range. They would become more of a support weapon for taking out large/tougher targets at medium range, whereas the laser blasters, gauss launcher and plasma blaster become special weapons since they offer utility instead of raw power.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on December 09, 2014, 04:35:54 pm
Hovertank/Plasma's auto shot costs 0 TUs, so I can actually fire it forever.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on December 09, 2014, 07:34:22 pm
Ha! That's funny. I fixed that 30 minutes ago while working on the 2-weapons tanks.

Look at these guys, aren't they cute? Who can survive the XCom HWP Swarm?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: ivandogovich on December 09, 2014, 08:53:59 pm
Heh.  Makes me itch to play my "Full Metal" game, with only robots and HWPs. ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Morbo on January 29, 2015, 04:19:17 am
Haven't played openXcom in awhile, so had a question about the modular nature of this whole XAE package.

For example, if i wanted to turn ON Scout armor ruleset, but leave "XAE research and manufacture" option OFF (to use vanilla research tree), will I still be able to research the scout armor?

The ruleset for scout armor dependencies reference Alien Electornics, alien weaponry and alien energy cell. Which I think are all new research topics from "XAE research and manufacture" ruleset. If openxcom can't find those 3 research topics, will it just skip it when it does the dependency check for Scout Amor?

Thx

Code: [Select]
research:
  - name: STR_SCOUT_ARMOR
    cost: 100
    points: 10
    listOrder: 3361
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
      - STR_ALIEN_ENERGY_CELLS
      - STR_PERSONAL_ARMOR
      - STR_MIND_PROBE
      - STR_ALIEN_WEAPONRY
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on February 03, 2015, 07:04:52 pm
Hi!

Sorry for the slow response and thanks for your interest. As it turns out, this is indeed an issue with the mod if one were to use it by itself. Unknown research topics are considered just that: unknown. If OpenXCom has no idea what "Alien Energy Cells" are, then it considers that you can't make or research anything that depends on it, since you can't possibly have any idea what "Alien Energy Cells" are either.

I have attached a working, standalone ruleset, which will be added to an eventual future release.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Vesparco on April 08, 2015, 07:58:49 pm
Hi,

I'm trying the mod (and also learning about modding in the process XD). I have found some issues in the research tree of depleted elerium. It seems that elerium weaponization (the one that opens the rests) is blocked by some lack of code (or at least once tweaked the rest of the tier opens up nicely).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on April 08, 2015, 08:23:56 pm
Hi!

Are you using the depleted elerium mod by itself? In that mod, Elerium Weaponization has no dependencies, which means that you get it for free if you start a new game with the mod enabled (and it shows up as a research project with 0 cost if you load it mid game). This is done in order to not add extra research for people who don't want to use my research tree, in XAE_Research_and_Manufacture.rul mod (XAE_R&M).

If you are using the whole collection, the dependencies of Elerium Weaponization are defined in the XAE_R&M. Those dependencies might be broken. I was trying to keep things compatible with other mods, but I am not sure it works. Elerium Weaponization requires you to interrogate an alien engineer after having researched the alien grenade. If you have mods that change the engineer interrogations, or if you enabled modded alien races after this mod, the research will not work.

If you added dependencies in the DE_Ammo mod and reloaded the mod by itself, it will overwrite the dependencies I set in XAE_R&M with whatever you defined in DE_Ammo. That seems to be what you did. It works now but might not once you load more mods.

Due to the code structure of OpenXCom, it is impossible to make a complicated research tree without pulling everything into a megamod (of which there are already quite a few and which goes against my philosophy of modding, except for total conversions). To circumvent that, I am working on a compromise with a resilient implementation of a simpler research tree, as well as an advanced research tree for users that are willing to play with the dynamics of mod loading.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Vesparco on April 09, 2015, 12:35:04 am
Hi!

Are you using the depleted elerium mod by itself? In that mod, Elerium Weaponization has no dependencies, which means that you get it for free if you start a new game with the mod enabled (and it shows up as a research project with 0 cost if you load it mid game). This is done in order to not add extra research for people who don't want to use my research tree, in XAE_Research_and_Manufacture.rul mod (XAE_R&M).

If you are using the whole collection, the dependencies of Elerium Weaponization are defined in the XAE_R&M. Those dependencies might be broken. I was trying to keep things compatible with other mods, but I am not sure it works. Elerium Weaponization requires you to interrogate an alien engineer after having researched the alien grenade. If you have mods that change the engineer interrogations, or if you enabled modded alien races after this mod, the research will not work.

If you added dependencies in the DE_Ammo mod and reloaded the mod by itself, it will overwrite the dependencies I set in XAE_R&M with whatever you defined in DE_Ammo. That seems to be what you did. It works now but might not once you load more mods.

Due to the code structure of OpenXCom, it is impossible to make a complicated research tree without pulling everything into a megamod (of which there are already quite a few and which goes against my philosophy of modding, except for total conversions). To circumvent that, I am working on a compromise with a resilient implementation of a simpler research tree, as well as an advanced research tree for users that are willing to play with the dynamics of mod loading.

I was using the whole set of your mods (even I messed up as I read later the tank mod section not no put all of them together  :P, some tanks got lost during research).

Then I tweaked the DE ruleset as I thought it was  giving me issues into achieving its contents (I had already all alien captures and autopsies).

I assume the issue was as you said that the research of the engineer before the alien grenade. Some thoughts about that would be to forfeit the alien grenade research. Alien engineers are quite hard to come by (they are not found easily unless you go for base assault, in which case you should have steeped deep into the gauss/laser technologies, specially for your overfed mutons XD).

Seems the issue also happens with plasma, as you require the engineer again after the two tech trees are completed I think (or that's what I understood from the ruleset). Also I have a CTD with the small launcher upon accessing the ufopaedia but I have to check it further just in case.

Then, giving feedback about your mod:

I liked your approach for the tanks and the mod in general. The salvaging and tank customization is quite an interesting way of boosting the engineering department. Then the dual tech tree (laser/gauss) is quite appealing, specially with the nice versatile variants of the gauss launcher and the laser blaster. Also, the skywarden is really cool, I loved the side doors.

About the tech tree, there is still some sharp edges such as the improved medikit. Some ufo elements can be hard to come by just by the spawn rate of some higher size ufos (luke extra ufos could help with this). Also, the manufacturing list is quite huge at the end and a little bit annoying to navigate by ( I believe some other mods I tried had some kind of sorting).

Lastly, there are some elements that seems to give quite small improvement (armors and crafts) that fall in the  gap of "short-term useful or avoidable by waiting the long term solution". Is it viable to use the same approach as with the HWP?

-In the case of the armor it could define a "basic armor" and then some upgrades upon it (flying, atribute and so...).

-In the case of interceptor/skyranger variants, it would be nice to "pimp them" progressively from the initial model ( I understand that the game mechanics can be unfriendly to this).


Last but not least, I would like to say I appreciate your approach to the modular modding. Your code is very welcoming and easy to understand, which helps a lot in learning the inner outs of the ruleset system.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on April 09, 2015, 01:19:40 am
I was using the whole set of your mods (even I messed up as I read later the tank mod section not no put all of them together  :P, some tanks got lost during research).

Then I tweaked the DE ruleset as I thought it was  giving me issues into achieving its contents (I had already all alien captures and autopsies).

I assume the issue was as you said that the research of the engineer before the alien grenade. Some thoughts about that would be to forfeit the alien grenade research. Alien engineers are quite hard to come by (they are not found easily unless you go for base assault, in which case you should have steeped deep into the gauss/laser technologies, specially for your overfed mutons XD).

I am glad you are enjoying the mod. I have to say the current version is quite outdated. I have had an update planned for a long time but I am trying to test it, which requires a fair amount of time.

If you have no other mod that change the engineer interrogations, you can capture another one and interrogate it after having researched the alien grenade. That will open up the research project.

The idea of Elerium Weaponization (and later Plasma Weapons) is that they require you to understand a basic level, then interrogate an engineer to learn more. If you don't know how to make elerium blow up (the simplest kind of energy extraction), then you're not ready to use it to power weapons, so your researchers can't ask the right questions to the engineer, nor would they understand his answers. Thus if you interrogated an engineer before researching the grenade, you did not learn all you could because it was way above your understanding at the time. You have to get another one. It's like trying to explain algebra to a kid who has not learned arithmetic.

But it is difficult to properly implement. I have a simple ruleset, now, which does not require interrogations at all (since the original did not either) and a separate ruleset, which will come with a big warning, for the unlocks. I generally have no issue with captures and the XAE provides a few more capture tools, so I am not sure I want to make things easier. By the time you need the interrogations, you should have Mag and Scout armors, and laser/gauss weapons which make sectoids and floaters rather easy (except cyberdiscs) and snakemen manageable. It is quite doable to taser aliens, although the stun rods are always a challenge!

Quote
Seems the issue also happens with plasma, as you require the engineer again after the two tech trees are completed I think (or that's what I understood from the ruleset).
Yes, plasma weapons require you to have developed more tech and interrogate another engineer. I split the game into tiers, which require an alien engineer to progress. The order is supposed to be:
0 - Use conventional weapons (+ alloy ammo)
1 - Get basic tech by yourself through scavenging scraps of alien tech
1* - Reach a point where human understanding is limiting you
1** - Get a breakthrough by interrogating an engineer
2 - Get more tech from Elerium Weaponization
2* - Get stuck again because your understanding of this new tech only goes so far
2** - Interrogate another engineer and finally makes sense of their tach
3 - Get the final tech.

It goes similarly with armors as well, where power and flying suits got nerfed and new "endgame" suits were added to compensate.

Quote
Also I have a CTD with the small launcher upon accessing the ufopaedia but I have to check it further just in case.
Are you using the Alien Armoury Expanded? Or another mod that changes the ammunitions of the small launcher? The XAE uses 4 different ammos for the small launcher (Bomb, Smoke Bomb, Stun Bomb, Elerium bomb), but if another mod changes the item definition, that can make the UFOPaedia crash.

Quote
Then, giving feedback about your mod:

I liked your approach for the tanks and the mod in general. The salvaging and tank customization is quite an interesting way of boosting the engineering department. Then the dual tech tree (laser/gauss) is quite appealing, specially with the nice versatile variants of the gauss launcher and the laser blaster. Also, the skywarden is really cool, I loved the side doors.
Glad you're enjoying the new stuff :) I tried to add variety and come up with weapons that encourage different battlefield roles so that not everyone in the skyranger has the same equipment.

Quote
About the tech tree, there is still some sharp edges such as the improved medikit. Some ufo elements can be hard to come by just by the spawn rate of some higher size ufos (luke extra ufos could help with this). Also, the manufacturing list is quite huge at the end and a little bit annoying to navigate by ( I believe some other mods I tried had some kind of sorting).
The improved medikit is basically free health (since it heals more HP per fatal wound) which also means faster soldier recovery from being wounded (recovery time is a function of how wounded a soldier is at the end of the mission, I think?). Since it is a "free improvement" over vanilla, I decided to keep it difficult to obtain.

As for the manufacturing list, I am trying to use categories and group weapons together in a consistent fashion. I don't remember the state it was in 1.03 but the next version will be relatively ordered.

Quote
Lastly, there are some elements that seems to give quite small improvement (armors and crafts) that fall in the  gap of "short-term useful or avoidable by waiting the long term solution". Is it viable to use the same approach as with the HWP?

-In the case of the armor it could define a "basic armor" and then some upgrades upon it (flying, atribute and so...).

-In the case of interceptor/skyranger variants, it would be nice to "pimp them" progressively from the initial model ( I understand that the game mechanics can be unfriendly to this).
It would be possible to implement some armors as "basic armors" and then add different properties to it. The problem with that is the conversion takes a project just like the creation does, and ideally you have another project to turn the upgraded one into a basic one again.. Maybe I could make it such that all corpses from one category can only be repaired to the basic armor, which would remove some of the repairing project and then you have to re-upgrade the armor (costing more materials). Overall though, that gets into the "more bothersome for the player than anything else" territory.

As you suspected, it is impossible to upgrade crafts through manufacturing. Once they become a craft (from "Skyranger" in the purchase menu to "Skyranger-2"), they are not really items any more. Just like soldiers.

Quote
Last but not least, I would like to say I appreciate your approach to the modular modding. Your code is very welcoming and easy to understand, which helps a lot in learning the inner outs of the ruleset system.
Cool! I'm glad you enjoy it. I am trying to make things approachable and customizable (both in choosing which mod you want to use, and modifying the mods for what you like). Have fun playing around. Hopefully I can get v1.1 out soon-ish and it will fix some of the problems. And I'm always happy to add more stuff to the XAE too!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on May 21, 2015, 12:37:55 pm
All of the recoverable armors lack a "size" entry so attempting to transfer a damaged armor causes great weirdness (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2150.msg25722.html#msg25722).

So... it's still v1.03.  I'm starting to think that v1.1 will feature Zrbite Gauss weapons... ;)
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on May 21, 2015, 07:08:04 pm
lol probably.. Good point on the recovered armors, I don't think I ever tried to transfer one. All my bases with active crews have at least one workshop to be able to do repairs and resupply locally. I'm kind of annoyed at how you get a damaged armor for a stunned soldier and that soldier also gets to keep his armor since he wasn't killed, so I'll have to eventually look at that.

I have a version of the XAE that is well ahead of v1.03, with more tanks (I can't believe I never released 2 weapons tanks!), rework of psi stuff, research and manufacture changes and some weapons tweaks as well, but I was trying to test it before releasing it. Then I became a pirate...

I'll try to find some time this weekend to look through stuff, package it and publish it. I have indeed been sitting on that update for way too long.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on May 21, 2015, 07:33:31 pm
I wouldn't mind waiting a little longer.  TFTD support is kinda sorta maybe imminent, and mods will have to be updated anyway to fit into the new directory structure and stuff.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on May 26, 2015, 03:38:12 pm
Odd.  My base got attacked (Ethereals with Cyberdisks) which resulted in 3 dead soldiers.  Said soldiers were wearing flying armor, but I can't find any damaged flying armor that they should've left behind.  I can't figure out this one, so I'll just have to make some new flying armor instead.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on May 26, 2015, 07:08:20 pm
hum.. I'll have to check if armours produce the right corpses.. I think I'll be overhauling the armour recovery thing soon either way. All personal armour variants (including personal armour itself) will return a damaged personal armour. Personal armour variants will require a suit of personal armour (along with other components) instead of being built from scratch.

That means only one repair manufacturing project per armour type (personal armour, powered suits, powered armour, displacer armour) instead of one per variant, so it cleans up the workshop list a bit.

It also doesn't hurt you if you outfit all your squad in personal armour and discover variants afterwards. You just upgrade the suits instead of having to build new ones and being left with outdated armours.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on May 26, 2015, 07:26:50 pm
Displacer armor?  Moddable armor?

Oh please hurry up, TFTD support.  These upcoming updates of all the mods are starting to become unbearable :P
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on May 26, 2015, 07:47:58 pm
I haven't released displacer armour? Man.. I totally lost track of what is in 1.03.. Been working on "1.1" for way too long!

Currently there are a lot of variants of personal armour (vanilla, flying, scout and magshield), and two variants of powered suits and powered armors (walking and flying), also two variants of displacer armours. They are all created from scratch. This will go away and be replaced by building the basic suit from scratch, then upgrading it to the variants. You won't be able to downgrade a variant as I don't foresee it being useful. But if your soldier gets hurt, you'll get a damaged basic suit, which you can repair and then upgrade anew to whatever you want.

The suits (and upgrades) will also require advanced components. Grav modules will be required for any upgrade to flying variants (which means you spend one every time you repair it, better recover those floater corpses!) and alien energy cells/alien electronics will also be used.

Armours also have different stat changes, armour values and resistances. Powered Suits are slow and clunky but offer better protection than personal armours. Powered armours are faster and have better armour, but much harder to develop. Displacer armours have lower armours, but better stats and reduce some damage type by a % value, making them the best for resisting high powered shots (like taking a heavy plasma shot to the face). Mid game should have a mix of personal and suits variants, end game a mix of powered and displacer armours.

Same goes for tanks (can't remember the state of tanks in 1.03...). There is a modular hull/turret system with 3 tiers of tank (basic, alloy and hover). You can repair the hull if your tank gets destroyed, but not the turret. Building turrets will require materials, advanced components and craft-type weapons. Turrets are designed for short-range, mid-range and long range roles, depending on if you want a scout tank, support tank or sniper tank.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on June 15, 2015, 05:16:49 pm
Well well! After a LONG time, I've slowly started to work on this again. I think I have the mod structure updated to the nightly. At least all the mods display properly :D

There is still some work to be done on some mods to bring them up to standards, but it should be relatively soon. I have attached the upcoming module list. Let me know if there's something missing (or old bugs I should look into.. Currently have noted the armor repairs bugs, which will be fully reworked for the next release).
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.01 !!
Post by: Aldorn on June 30, 2016, 09:25:08 pm
Damn, that's a tricky one.. I never play with HWPs (this new module is an attempt to make them more interesting for myself, mostly) so I never noticed that.

I have no knowledge of how to make maps, these were created by Aldorn for me. I will try to get a hold on him and see if he can fix it. If not, I don't know what to do. I can't even run MapView (although that might be the incentive I need to finally figure out if it's possible on Linux).

My apologies! The only way to make it work for now is to hack the ruleset and give your tank hovering capabilities by changing the movement type... :/ Not great.
Sorry to up this old topic, but I found a solution to fix the ramp issue making tanks not able to exit new crafts
Check here (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2706.msg66769.html#msg66769) for related hint
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on July 01, 2016, 02:15:53 pm
Hi Aldorn!

Thanks for dropping by, and with a fix no less. I feel like it was fixed in my wip version, but might well never have made it in a release as I was abducted by Piratez. I'll look into it next time I start a vanilla game!
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on July 11, 2016, 10:11:51 am
...is this mod dead?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on July 11, 2016, 05:01:09 pm
Not dead but.. in a coma?

I haven't played vanilla in a while and so haven't worked on this mod either. As far as I know it should work, but seeing bits of a LP a while ago showed that something went wrong with graphics indices and this may not be represented properly..

I will look into it eventually, but there was a lull in interest and a rush for Piratez, which included me, so I stopped development. I expect to get back in sometime this summer.

Did you have any specific hope, comment or request?
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Solarius Scorch on July 11, 2016, 05:42:12 pm
Not really on topic, but I don't think it warrants a new thread just yet... And it's related.
Some other gaming communities (Dwarf Fortress comes to mind) have a concept called "a mod orphanage". This means that if you don't want to develop a mod further, you can "officially" put it up for adoption. Such a mod goes to the "orphanage" where it is maintained by a caretaker to at least remain up to date with the game engine, and someone can even adopt it fully to develop it seriously.
I really like this system, as it allows mods to remain alive independently from a person. But of course it requires a charity modder who would work on the orphans with little credit.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on July 11, 2016, 06:03:46 pm
That's interesting. That's sort of what I intended with the XAE, by taking a bunch of older mods and bringing them back up to date at the time. I added a bit by also making sure that they were compatible and balanced with each others, but kept them independent from each others in most cases as well so users could pick. And of course I added a bunch of my own mods, because it's almost impossible to be involved in mods without wanting to make up stuff ;)

So in general, I guess I am quite favorable to such an idea. I can't do maps (no mapview on Linux  >:( ) but I think I can do pretty much everything else. I said, I'll get back to it eventually, so the XAE isn't quite ready for the orphanage. It's more of a neglected child than an abandoned one. Once I get back into it, I probably will look into incorporating more old mods into the framework too. Provided mods aren't too game changing, I feel like making them compatible and balanced is almost as important as up-to-date, otherwise using more than a few gives a garbled collection without much of an experience.

If you have any suggestion of mods/features, feel free to list them. The more interest, the more likely I am to get back in the XAE.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: BBHood217 on July 16, 2016, 03:00:34 pm
I wish I had something more substantial to suggest, but I suddenly got sucked into Area 51.  Damn you, Hobbes.

Anyway if you ever have the time, you could start small by updating the mod to use the nightlies file system.
Title: Re: [Crafts][Weapons] XCom Armoury Expanded - v1.03
Post by: Arthanor on July 16, 2016, 08:22:37 pm
There are several comprehensive mods that are indeed very captivating. I am trying to compile a version of the nightly but facing some stupid issues with modifications I need to do so it's taking longer than expected. Hopefully I'll figure it out by next weekend.

Then updating the mod to the nightly and releasing the wip version I had will be top priority.