Author Topic: [ENEMIES] Men in Black 4.5 | Cover 2.3.2 | Gazer 1.9.1 | Anthropod 1.5.2  (Read 179270 times)

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2014, 04:32:30 am »
Hey, I've been lookin at your MiB mod to try to learn to do a couple of things regarding mission generation and I got a couple of questions I'd like to ask.

1) Your MIB_TERROR_MISSION and MIB_BASE_LANDING essentially take place even if you manage to shoot down the UFO right?
2) This missions can take place in any terrain, but if they land on a specific texture (3) they'll use the Urban map instead?
3) The map that uses Area51's tiles you posted above is one of those UFOs?
4) Since you're using 40x40 and 30x30 maps, does the Skyranger usually lands on one edge of the map?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 04:37:36 am by Hobbes »

Offline robin

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2014, 12:10:00 pm »
Hey, I've been lookin at your MiB mod to try to learn to do a couple of things regarding mission generation and I got a couple of questions I'd like to ask.

1) Your MIB_TERROR_MISSION and MIB_BASE_LANDING essentially take place even if you manage to shoot down the UFO right?
2) This missions can take place in any terrain, but if they land on a specific texture (3) they'll use the Urban map instead?
3) The map that uses Area51's tiles you posted above is one of those UFOs?
4) Since you're using 40x40 and 30x30 maps, does the Skyranger usually lands on one edge of the map?
1) You can't shoot those down because they spawn already on the ground (landed state).
2) Yes I changed that to have a little more variety.
3) Yes, it's an ufo. The terror village too.
4) Now that you mention it, yes it does.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2014, 02:55:59 pm »
1) You can't shoot those down because they spawn already on the ground (landed state).

This is excellent to hear. But if I'm understanding the relevant part correctly:
id: B0
    groundTimer: 50000000
    waypoints:
      - [1, 1 , 100]
      - [1, 0 , 100]

The UFOs are actually first generated with a Low altitude but land immediately (how much 100 translates into seconds of game time?)

I was thinking of adding something akin to the Abductions/Council missions on Enemy Unknown 2012 since getting so many UFO ground missions gets tiring after a while. I have a terrain that consists of several 50x50 and 60x60 buildings but I would prefer not to use those for terror missions.

Offline robin

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2014, 03:35:32 pm »
This is excellent to hear. But if I'm understanding the relevant part correctly:
id: B0
    groundTimer: 50000000
    waypoints:
      - [1, 1 , 100]
      - [1, 0 , 100]

The UFOs are actually first generated with a Low altitude but land immediately (how much 100 translates into seconds of game time?)

I was thinking of adding something akin to the Abductions/Council missions on Enemy Unknown 2012 since getting so many UFO ground missions gets tiring after a while. I have a terrain that consists of several 50x50 and 60x60 buildings but I would prefer not to use those for terror missions.
100 stands for "100%" and it is the speed of the ufo. Check the rusleset reference: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ruleset_Reference_%28OpenXcom%29
The first coordinate (1, 1, 100) is the "enter point", it is needed but, as you said, it immediately lands following the instructions  given by the second (1, 0 , 100) coordinate.

About the size of the maps: frankly I think that UFO map sizes are perfect. Bigger maps means the missions will drag on too long, especially when hunting down the last alien alive hidden somewhere and you have only few men left (because of the casualties you had during the mission) to search for it.  TFTD already had maps too big (Gollop said so too and I agree). So I personally would be VERY careful about adding "big maps".


Anyway I consider the MiB MOD done, contents wise. I never wanted it to be big, just an extra human enemy that sometimes pops up. The high amount of MiB special missions should be fixed with the last update (3.3) and was due to them having too much ufo waves.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2014, 04:04:16 pm »
100 stands for "100%" and it is the speed of the ufo. Check the rusleset reference: https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php?title=Ruleset_Reference_%28OpenXcom%29
The first coordinate (1, 1, 100) is the "enter point", it is needed but, as you said, it immediately lands following the instructions  given by the second (1, 0 , 100) coordinate.

Yup, somehow I got confused with that 100 setting.

Quote
About the size of the maps: frankly I think that UFO map sizes are perfect. Bigger maps means the missions will drag on too long, especially when hunting down the last alien alive hidden somewhere and you have only few men left (because of the casualties you had during the mission) to search for it.  TFTD already had maps too big (Gollop said so too and I agree). So I personally would be VERY careful about adding "big maps".

This is a very interesting discussion.

The issue with TFTD's maps that suffered from that problem (ship attacks, artifact sites and alien colonies) had less to do with their sizes, but more with being multi level missions and how the maps and AI were designed (too cramped, making it harder to find the last alien). Considering that Gollop enlarged slightly the map sizes on Apocalypse (specially using more levels) but at the same time redesigned the AI to make it more likely to meet the player says a bit of how these different factors play out.

Another main reason on why I prefer to use slightly enlarged maps (60x60x4 on the terrain pack) is my experience with Enemy Unknown 2012 and UFO2000. On EU2012 the maps are, on average, bigger than those used in UFO but at the same time having less units. The combat system is different sure, allowing for more movement and preventing most uses of free firing. But at the same time, with UFO2000 (the multiplayer version of UFO, with the same combat system) players eventually settled on the best battle conditions being 6-8 units per side on a 50x50 map, so the combat system isn't the most important factor.

Cramped maps (lots of small rooms, hard to reach locations, built in levels, etc.) are also a no-go. I learned that by designing several terrains that way (Hive, The City) when I started modding and I will not include those on the Terrain Pack for that reason. The interesting thing about TFTD is while it had several maps designed this way, it also included some terrains exactly the opposite, like Port (which I consider the best terrain of both UFO/TFTD) or Island, but those tend to be overlooked by the chore of having to clear all the rooms of the Cruise Liners.

The conclusion I draw from all of this is really that slightly enlarged maps (60x60) can be better than the current map sizes due to the squad sizes in UFO, by allowing more movement and less '1 large group advancing and shooting non-stop to targets at the distance from the moment they land' (which is the most effective tactic in most maps but that gets boring after a while) if properly designed.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 04:17:04 pm by Hobbes »

Offline robin

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2014, 04:33:48 pm »
Yup, somehow I got confused with that 100 setting.

This is a very interesting discussion.

The issue with TFTD's maps that suffered from that problem (ship attacks, artifact sites and alien colonies) had less to do with their sizes, but more with being multi level missions and how the maps and AI were designed (too cramped, making it harder to find the last alien). Considering that Gollop enlarged slightly the map sizes on Apocalypse (specially using more levels) but at the same time redesigned the AI to make it more likely to meet the player says a bit of how these different factors play out.
Yes, TFTD suffered from the "alien in closet" syndrome which made everything worse.

Yes again, Gollop increased the map size for Apocalypse, but he admitted it was a mistake to do that (and it was also a realtime game, much quicker to move around).

Anyway, anyone is of course free to do what he believes it's better for what he's aiming to realize! In my mods I'll stick with UFOEU-sized maps because they're the ones I prefer.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2014, 04:41:13 pm by robin »

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2014, 06:08:08 pm »
Anyway, anyone is of course free to do what he believes it's better for what he's aiming to realize! In my mods I'll stick with UFOEU-sized maps because they're the ones I prefer.

Everyone has different tastes, and I might end up deciding that UFO EU sized maps are the best :)

Thanks for the answers to my questions - your MiB mod is a case example of the things that is possible to achieve with OpenXCom.

Offline the_third_curry

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2014, 06:26:18 pm »
I'd be up for idea of larger maps, assuming that the terrain is a bit on the sparse side and it's only for special missions, which seems to be what Hobbes is implying. To me, the port is easily the best terror area in Terror from the Deep. Something about the islands (color palette?) gave me depth perception problems.

The ships are just dreadful. I've spent days trying to get through one cruise liner. Even when you do think you've beat one, there's always the chance TftD will glitch up and force you to spend hours trying to find a nonexistent alien or some nonsense like that.

Offline Hadan

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #68 on: June 20, 2014, 01:59:00 pm »
Is men_in_black_x_alien_armoury_expanded.rul updated to the new version of MiB?

best regards
Hadan

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #69 on: June 20, 2014, 02:13:00 pm »
Is men_in_black_x_alien_armoury_expanded.rul updated to the new version of MiB?

Uh... no. :-[ I did a quick job now, attaching the file.

Offline Hadan

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #70 on: June 20, 2014, 05:44:15 pm »
Thanks, I will give it a try  :)

/edit:
Error when activating mod, see screenshot
« Last Edit: June 20, 2014, 05:51:31 pm by Hadan »

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #71 on: June 21, 2014, 01:24:55 am »
Thanks, I will give it a try  :)

/edit:
Error when activating mod, see screenshot
Remove a space at line 995
And add one at line 1000
« Last Edit: June 21, 2014, 01:28:14 am by Aldorn »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #72 on: June 21, 2014, 02:22:24 am »
I said it was a quick job, didn't I? :P

Sorry about that, it was really late and I forgot to validate it. Here's an update.

Offline Aldorn

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #73 on: June 21, 2014, 02:28:09 am »
I said it was a quick job, didn't I? :P

Sorry about that, it was really late and I forgot to validate it. Here's an update.

Only people doing nothing make no mistakes  ;)

niculinux

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Re: [ENEMY] Men in Black 3.3 | Cover Alien 1.9u | Gazer Alien 1.2u
« Reply #74 on: June 21, 2014, 12:15:08 pm »
Currently, on linux  MiB 3.3 does seem to work (the game starts)
The current cover alien (waspite) does not work uner linux:



and so does the gazer alien

« Last Edit: July 07, 2014, 09:35:05 pm by niculinux »