Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 536504 times)

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3000 on: November 07, 2018, 06:12:06 pm »
For nuclear lasers (and maybe also basic lasers), why not bring the MiB into play? Aliens gave the laser technology to them. So interrogating a high rank MiB would make a good prerequisite, or maybe some MiB data slate could be introduced.

Thinking again about my disappointment with the nuclear lasers:
I think I would already be satisfied with the following change: Change the stats of the basic heavy laser to the stats of the current nuclear heavy laser (that is the heavy laser from the original game). That would also fit the image. And improve the stats of the heavy nuclear laser to power 100 or 110 and faster operation, such that it compares vs. the heavy railgun similarly as the nuclear laser rifle compares vs. the rail rifle.

And this is the kind of suggestions I like: to the point!

I can modify the heavy lasers as you suggested, no problem... But I am not sure if this would really solve the nuclear lasers problem. It looks like a solution for a different kind of problem, namely "heavy lasers suck" (I assume). So I'm not sure if I should treat it independently, or would it actually be enough to make nuclear lasers useful?

As for the MiB, aren't they too easily found/captured to make a difference?

Offline hairybert

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3001 on: November 07, 2018, 11:04:31 pm »
And this is the kind of suggestions I like: to the point!

Thank you!

There have emerged different aspects in this discussion.

(1) "Heavy lasers suck"
True, many think that the heavy laser from the original game is disappointingly underpowered. FMP gives us the chance to correct that. And there is even a way to do this without violating the principle of FMP of not changing the stats of the original items! Just put the original heavy laser into the lower tier family of laser weapons, while taking the original laser pistol and rifle to the higher tier family of nuclear lasers.
The fact that the images of the original lasers are already assigned in this way might be seen as an omen that this really is the way to go!

(2) "The nuclear lasers problem"
I'm not sure what you mean here. I guess it is the discussion if nuclear lasers should be considered top tier together with rail and plasma? In my opinion, they should. To give more variety to the game. And to resemble the original game, where lasers have been the first choice among the gun-type weapons in a few (but critical) situations like fighting sectopods.

I can modify the heavy lasers as you suggested [...] would it actually be enough to make nuclear lasers useful?
Good question. Maybe yes, if simultaneously the power of the rail weapons is reduced a bit. Power 125 should be enough for the heavy railgun, and would also prevent it from destroying outer ufo walls. That should really be preserved to weapons like fusion torch or fusion ball launcher.

(3) Currently, rail weapons and nuclear lasers will show up at the same time.
Due to their dependence on the same key tech (antimatter containment). I really like the idea of bringing the MiB into play. MiB missions are super nasty and currently, the reward is thin. I usually cancel those missions, not worth the hassle. But things would definitely change when basic and nuclear laser weapons are added to the jackpot.

Basic laser weapons could (additionally) depend on interrogating an MiB-enineer, and nuclear laser weapons on an MiB-commander. Or add some data medium object to the Hybrid-MIB-Meeting mission (containing secret blueprints on nuclear laser weapons the hybrids give to the MiB) and make the advanced laser weapons dependent on that instead.

Quote
As for the MiB, aren't they too easily found/captured to make a difference?

The basic laser weapons shouldn't be too hard to get IMO. We could assign more techs to the MIB-engineers (early things like multi-launcher, tactical sniper rifle, explosive ammo, incendiary ammo, heavy cannon, auto cannon), to make it more unlikely that they talk about the laser weapons.

Nuclear lasers will be much harder to get. Capturing a live commander is not so easy. And in the other variant (MiB-hybrid-meeting) the player has to be lucky enough that the mission is randomly generated at all. Maybe it would even make sense then to make this a guaranteed mission in some month.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3002 on: November 10, 2018, 12:11:43 pm »
Sorry for the delay!

(1) "Heavy lasers suck"
True, many think that the heavy laser from the original game is disappointingly underpowered. FMP gives us the chance to correct that. And there is even a way to do this without violating the principle of FMP of not changing the stats of the original items! Just put the original heavy laser into the lower tier family of laser weapons, while taking the original laser pistol and rifle to the higher tier family of nuclear lasers.
The fact that the images of the original lasers are already assigned in this way might be seen as an omen that this really is the way to go!

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand... Is it about graphics, or items? Could you please write it in a way that even I can understand?

(2) "The nuclear lasers problem"
I'm not sure what you mean here. I guess it is the discussion if nuclear lasers should be considered top tier together with rail and plasma? In my opinion, they should. To give more variety to the game. And to resemble the original game, where lasers have been the first choice among the gun-type weapons in a few (but critical) situations like fighting sectopods.

Well, they are still useful after you get plasma.
But I might just rebel and increase lasers' accuracy across the board (like I did in X-Com Files). This would give them more of a niche. What do you think?

Good question. Maybe yes, if simultaneously the power of the rail weapons is reduced a bit. Power 125 should be enough for the heavy railgun, and would also prevent it from destroying outer ufo walls. That should really be preserved to weapons like fusion torch or fusion ball launcher.

Hmm, OK, it's an idea. But railguns are already at a disadvantage of dealing AP damage, which is generally not that great against high level enemies.

(3) Currently, rail weapons and nuclear lasers will show up at the same time.
Due to their dependence on the same key tech (antimatter containment). I really like the idea of bringing the MiB into play. MiB missions are super nasty and currently, the reward is thin. I usually cancel those missions, not worth the hassle. But things would definitely change when basic and nuclear laser weapons are added to the jackpot.

Basic laser weapons could (additionally) depend on interrogating an MiB-enineer, and nuclear laser weapons on an MiB-commander. Or add some data medium object to the Hybrid-MIB-Meeting mission (containing secret blueprints on nuclear laser weapons the hybrids give to the MiB) and make the advanced laser weapons dependent on that instead.

A bit situational... But I like the general direction.

The basic laser weapons shouldn't be too hard to get IMO. We could assign more techs to the MIB-engineers (early things like multi-launcher, tactical sniper rifle, explosive ammo, incendiary ammo, heavy cannon, auto cannon), to make it more unlikely that they talk about the laser weapons.

Nuclear lasers will be much harder to get. Capturing a live commander is not so easy. And in the other variant (MiB-hybrid-meeting) the player has to be lucky enough that the mission is randomly generated at all. Maybe it would even make sense then to make this a guaranteed mission in some month.

OK, I think I get the idea.
I am kinda shy about changinhg basic lasers' prerequisites to MiB, since it's so unlike X-Com... But I will consider this. ;)

Offline captinjoehenry

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3003 on: November 13, 2018, 03:10:53 am »
I saw in an older play through of this mod pack people had multi blaster launchers.  How do I get them as I cannot figure it out from looking at the rulesets.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3004 on: November 13, 2018, 03:14:41 am »
They're dropped from a very rare alien mission. You'll know the ship when you get a look at it during interception.

Offline captinjoehenry

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3005 on: November 13, 2018, 03:22:11 am »
Ah the gold one?  Can I make them and their ammo once I get one or am I stuck with what I can loot?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3006 on: November 13, 2018, 11:52:39 am »
You can't make ammo for the Blaster Multi-Launcher.
(Which perhaps should be changed.)

Offline captinjoehenry

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3007 on: November 15, 2018, 05:15:32 am »
I would REALLY like to be able to make ammo for the multi blaster launcher.  Maybe require a capture of the Ethereal Ambassadors from their envoy ship to get the recipe for the ammo?  As it is I'm fine with the launcher being unbuildable but being able to make ammo for it would be so so good if it is sutably expensive and not easy to unlock.

Also which is better?  The railguns or plasma weapons?

And I seem to have the sprites of the Gaus Weapons in place of my railgun weapons for some reason.  Or did the old guas sprites get changed to the railgun sprites?
« Last Edit: November 15, 2018, 11:47:07 pm by captinjoehenry »

Offline Guilty man

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3008 on: November 21, 2018, 12:35:17 pm »
Hello, Solarius Scorch!
I've got a crash nearly the end of the game, so it's sad to drop everything in this moment.  :'( Maybe there is a way to solve the problem somehow? And the problem is:
[21-11-2018_13-20-45]   [FATAL]   OpenXcom has crashed: Error proccessing mission script named: recon, mission type: STR_HYBRID_GROUND_CONVOY is not defined
Everything worked well untill now.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3009 on: November 21, 2018, 04:02:53 pm »
Thanks and sorry. I will check ASAP.

(I swear, those hybrids are easily the most troublesome thing in this mod.)

EDIT:
I think it should be fine... Are you sure you have the latest version of the mod?
« Last Edit: November 21, 2018, 08:15:52 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline tarsolyger

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3010 on: November 22, 2018, 03:05:14 am »
I would REALLY like to be able to make ammo for the multi blaster launcher.  Maybe require a capture of the Ethereal Ambassadors from their envoy ship to get the recipe for the ammo?  As it is I'm fine with the launcher being unbuildable but being able to make ammo for it would be so so good if it is sutably expensive and not easy to unlock.

I don't really have a say in this as I have never tried the FMP (maybe after I finish the LP for Area 51 I'll give that a try too), but to me it sounds like a good balancing for a very OP weapon that you have to painstakingly loot the ammo for it to use, it sounds like it makes it more like a special thing to solve extremely hard problems, but you are always encouraged to try any other method before resorting to this option.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3011 on: November 22, 2018, 11:07:31 am »
I don't really have a say in this as I have never tried the FMP (maybe after I finish the LP for Area 51 I'll give that a try too), but to me it sounds like a good balancing for a very OP weapon that you have to painstakingly loot the ammo for it to use, it sounds like it makes it more like a special thing to solve extremely hard problems, but you are always encouraged to try any other method before resorting to this option.

Your reasoning is sound, but in this case it's not that applicable, because this particular weapon is so rare that you are unlikely to ever encounter it before Cydonia. This means that if you are lucky enough to find the weapon in the first place, you can't realistically replenish your ammo by looting.
Therefore I agree that it should be manufacturable. I really hope it won't break the balance...

Offline Guilty man

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3012 on: November 22, 2018, 11:45:16 am »
Thanks and sorry. I will check ASAP.

(I swear, those hybrids are easily the most troublesome thing in this mod.)

EDIT:
I think it should be fine... Are you sure you have the latest version of the mod?
Yeah. Recently I updated It's version to latest 2.2d. After 2-3 days of playing this version I get this error.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3013 on: November 22, 2018, 11:47:48 am »
Missions are generated at the beginning of each month. So if your mission was generated incorrectly, the problem will probably persist even after the update.
To solve it, try reloading a save from the previous month. Alternatively, you can edit your save file to remove or replace the faulty mission.

Offline tarsolyger

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Re: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)
« Reply #3014 on: November 22, 2018, 02:09:16 pm »
this particular weapon is so rare that you are unlikely to ever encounter it before Cydonia. This means that if you are lucky enough to find the weapon in the first place, you can't realistically replenish your ammo by looting.

but this also means that this weapon is not really required to win the game though, but if found, makes it easier. In this case, if you need to capture it to manufacture it, the luck factor will be multiplied by you being able to replenish the ammo.

Just in a general perspective, in case of a narrow win/loss situation, not finding this weapon before going to Cydonia might result in a loss, if you find it, it'll be an easy win. So if you keep it very rare and hard to find with a launcher that can't be reproduced, but very powerful and let the player get the ammo for it, there's no way it won't screw the balance. It either will be too easy if found, or too difficult if not found.