[TOTAL CONVERSION] The Piratez Mod - 0.9.j - 9 May - Holiday Edition

[Dioxine]

Save structure is kept mostly unchanged, so changing Nightlies won't invalidate your saves, or upset campaign in progress in any way.

BUT I'm going to re-iterate, if you're using a Nightly with the new mod structure, you WILL be getting crashes.  I think the last viable nightly is 2015_04_30_0720, like Ivan said (and preferred one is from around 15th-20th April).

It might also be a map crash, but those are rare. Grab the latest Hobbes' Terrain Pack and overwrite Terrains, Maps and Routes with what you find there. If the crash persists, I guess there is no other choice than loading your game from before the landing and re-playing the mission. Also make sure Savescumming is enabled so a different terrain will be spawned.

[Zharkov]

I have another reapeatable ctd. This time, when I end the first turn, the tank fires, a mutant screams, and crash. This has a strange aesthetic, but I'd like to continue the game...

Arg, after eliminating civies 1000019 to 1000023 from the save game file the game does not Crash on turn 1:

Code: [Select]

    - id: 1000019
      faction: 2
      soldierId: 1000019
      genUnitType: MALE_CIVILIAN
      genUnitArmor: CIV_ARMOR_M1
      name: ""
      status: 0
      position:
        - 41
        - 55
        - 0
      direction: 4
      directionTurret: 4
      tu: 35
      health: 40
      stunlevel: 0
      energy: 65
      morale: 100
      kneeled: false
      floating: false
      armor:
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
      fatalWounds:
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
      fire: 0
      expBravery: 0
      expReactions: 0
      expFiring: 0
      expThrowing: 0
      expPsiSkill: 0
      expPsiStrength: 0
      expMelee: 0
      turretType: -1
      visible: true
      turnsSinceSpotted: 255
      rankInt: -1
      moraleRestored: 0
      AI:
        fromNode: -1
        toNode: -1
        AIMode: 0
      killedBy: 2
      motionPoints: 0
      respawn: false
      activeHand: STR_RIGHT_HAND
      recolor:
        -
          - 160
          - 84
    - id: 1000020
      faction: 2
      soldierId: 1000020
      genUnitType: CIVILIAN_MUT_5
      genUnitArmor: CIV_ARMOR_MUT_5
      name: ""
      status: 0
      position:
        - 4
        - 22
        - 0
      direction: 4
      directionTurret: 4
      tu: 30
      health: 80
      stunlevel: 0
      energy: 60
      morale: 100
      kneeled: false
      floating: false
      armor:
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
      fatalWounds:
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
      fire: 0
      expBravery: 0
      expReactions: 0
      expFiring: 0
      expThrowing: 0
      expPsiSkill: 0
      expPsiStrength: 0
      expMelee: 0
      turretType: -1
      visible: false
      turnsSinceSpotted: 255
      rankInt: -1
      moraleRestored: 0
      AI:
        fromNode: -1
        toNode: -1
        AIMode: 0
      killedBy: 2
      motionPoints: 0
      respawn: false
      activeHand: STR_RIGHT_HAND
      recolor:
        -
          - 160
          - 144
        -
          - 144
          - 160
    - id: 1000021
      faction: 2
      soldierId: 1000021
      genUnitType: MALE_CIVILIAN
      genUnitArmor: CIV_ARMOR_M1
      name: ""
      status: 0
      position:
        - 53
        - 28
        - 0
      direction: 2
      directionTurret: 2
      tu: 35
      health: 40
      stunlevel: 0
      energy: 65
      morale: 100
      kneeled: false
      floating: false
      armor:
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
        - 15
      fatalWounds:
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
      fire: 0
      expBravery: 0
      expReactions: 0
      expFiring: 0
      expThrowing: 0
      expPsiSkill: 0
      expPsiStrength: 0
      expMelee: 0
      turretType: -1
      visible: false
      turnsSinceSpotted: 255
      rankInt: -1
      moraleRestored: 0
      AI:
        fromNode: -1
        toNode: -1
        AIMode: 0
      killedBy: 2
      motionPoints: 0
      respawn: false
      activeHand: STR_RIGHT_HAND
      recolor:
        -
          - 160
          - 244
    - id: 1000022
      faction: 2
      soldierId: 1000022
      genUnitType: CIVILIAN_MUT_4
      genUnitArmor: CIV_ARMOR_MUT_4
      name: ""
      status: 0
      position:
        - 3
        - 8
        - 0
      direction: 7
      directionTurret: 7
      tu: 30
      health: 70
      stunlevel: 0
      energy: 60
      morale: 100
      kneeled: false
      floating: false
      armor:
        - 12
        - 12
        - 12
        - 12
        - 12
      fatalWounds:
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
      fire: 0
      expBravery: 0
      expReactions: 0
      expFiring: 0
      expThrowing: 0
      expPsiSkill: 0
      expPsiStrength: 0
      expMelee: 0
      turretType: -1
      visible: false
      turnsSinceSpotted: 255
      rankInt: -1
      moraleRestored: 0
      AI:
        fromNode: -1
        toNode: -1
        AIMode: 0
      killedBy: 2
      motionPoints: 0
      respawn: false
      activeHand: STR_RIGHT_HAND
    - id: 1000023
      faction: 2
      soldierId: 1000023
      genUnitType: CIVILIAN_MUT_5
      genUnitArmor: CIV_ARMOR_MUT_5
      name: ""
      status: 0
      position:
        - 9
        - 34
        - 0
      direction: 0
      directionTurret: 0
      tu: 30
      health: 80
      stunlevel: 0
      energy: 60
      morale: 100
      kneeled: false
      floating: false
      armor:
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
        - 20
      fatalWounds:
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
        - 0
      fire: 0
      expBravery: 0
      expReactions: 0
      expFiring: 0
      expThrowing: 0
      expPsiSkill: 0
      expPsiStrength: 0
      expMelee: 0
      turretType: -1
      visible: false
      turnsSinceSpotted: 255
      rankInt: -1
      moraleRestored: 0
      AI:
        fromNode: -1
        toNode: -1
        AIMode: 0
      killedBy: 2
      motionPoints: 0
      respawn: false
      activeHand: STR_RIGHT_HAND
      recolor:
        -
          - 160
          - 253
        -
          - 144
          - 251

Beats me, what's wrong with those guys...


  ...just to crash a few turns later! Is there a way to log what is happening? Debug Mode doesn't seem to have its own logging.

It might also be a map crash, but those are rare. Grab the latest Hobbes' Terrain Pack and overwrite Terrains, Maps and Routes with what you find there. If the crash persists, I guess there is no other choice than loading your game from before the landing and re-playing the mission. Also make sure Savescumming is enabled so a different terrain will be spawned.

Thanks for the advice. I tried this, too, but it did not help. You might be right though - seems that Hobbes' has deactivated the railyard Terrain ftb, because of too many pathfinding bugs - surprise - causing ctds!

[Dioxine]

Terrains that might cause crashes like this (occassionally, but still) are: Commercial, Railyard, Farm, Urban. The last 2 contain non-Hobbes made custom maps. Sooner or later I'll have to tackle those, but I don't want to 'fix' Hobbes' maps...

[Galwail]

So I ended up re-rolling the mission with save scumming enabled. I have to tell you, those pogroms are so nasty compared to the early small and medium ships. I had to buy some serious explosive firepower to deal with all those discs.

Also how fast is the enemy progression in this mod? How important is it to research fast for better weapons and armors? I feel kind of bad for wasting research time on interrogations instead of new weapons and armors. Is it important to get more brainers than 15? It is really expensive to get more than that.

[pilot00]

So I ended up re-rolling the mission with save scumming enabled. I have to tell you, those pogroms are so nasty compared to the early small and medium ships. I had to buy some serious explosive firepower to deal with all those discs.

Also how fast is the enemy progression in this mod? How important is it to research fast for better weapons and armors? I feel kind of bad for wasting research time on interrogations instead of new weapons and armors. Is it important to get more brainers than 15? It gets really expensive to get more than that.

Regarding the brainers, it can be done but there are some requirements, such as a second base and a large amount of capital to be stored, because those gals be expensive and libraries be more expensive. That said, I have 5 of them in my current run. But you need to stabalise financially first. Have workshops churning out money, have a constant possitive score (translation: Payment increases) and equalise income vs expenditure.

TLDR: Not before 2 years in the game IMHO and even that is debatable on how well you did those years.

Regarding the enemy progression, well lets say that for the most part you are outgunned and outarmored. So research on those areas is critical.
Rule of thumb regarding interrogations: Interrogating faction engineers is a priority as is Faction Leaders and Commanders (or equivalent rank, they are not named as such).

[Dioxine]

So I ended up re-rolling the mission with save scumming enabled. I have to tell you, those pogroms are so nasty compared to the early small and medium ships. I had to buy some serious explosive firepower to deal with all those discs.

Also how fast is the enemy progression in this mod? How important is it to research fast for better weapons and armors? I feel kind of bad for wasting research time on interrogations instead of new weapons and armors. Is it important to get more brainers than 15? It is really expensive to get more than that.

I think I will answer all these in one. There is basically little enemy progression per se. New, stronger races appear in late 2601 - early 2602, but they never take a majority (and you can meet them from Day 1, only very rarely). Enemy missions increase from 2 to 3 per month from mid-2601 onwards, since it's (still) hardcoded. Enemy weapons do not get any better. Basically you have all the time in the world to get on your feet (well, in 99 cases out of 100 - you CAN get raided by an out-of-depth enemy, but the chances are close to nil) - you just have to survive (so pick your fights wisely). But it seems you've crossed an important watermark - defeating a Pogrom - so you should be good.

About the research - research projects do get more expensive over time, but the Hyper-Wave Decoder is basically almost as hard as it gets. Most of even late-game projects are 2-3 times less expensive. More Brainers naturally mean faster progress, but you can win the game with 15 no problem. It will only take a lot of time (but then again, several key advances needed to win the game are based on rare/randomly appearing loot - so in all likeness, you're looking at 1.5-2 year campaign here AT LEAST). More Brainers will be also eventually needed if you intend to research EVERYTHING (which is not really needed to finish the game either)

[Arthanor]

The pacing of Piratez is very different. It is much more of a "only bite what you can chew, it's ok to run" game than vanilla, where you have to get an advantage fast otherwise the progression of alien races and tech combined means that you are doomed in august.

Piratez looks like it takes a LOT longer to get through, and it feels like you get more UFOs per month as well, so it makes the game feel even longer since you spend more time in battlescape.. Pogroms are nasty, with the laser weapons being handed out to everyone, plus cyberdiscs or tanks or power armors. Having lots of explosives and strong gals to throw them is a must, along with some way to deal with smoke damage so you can screen yourself without passing out (smoke armor at the beginning is good, then combat drugs help a lot with stun damage and loss of energy both).

I've been compiling a google spreadsheet of craft weapons that I have discovered so far, to look into dps, total damage and $/damage of the weapons I know of now (all 7 of 'em.. after 8 months?). Stingrays look really good, even when you buy nuclear fuel and consider the opportunity cost of not selling slave AIs (and most likely you will loot those like any good pirate would). Otherwise 30 and 50mm cannons are next, 30mm is a bit more costly for a bit more dps but at shorter range.

On the other hand, spike rockets are really standing out for their cost. Lowest average total damage (dmg*accuracy*max # of shots, they are ~half of the next worst one), twice as expensive for a full load as my next most expensive, best dps so far, but not that much better than 105mm rockets or stingrays. They end up with ~10 times the cost per average total damage of other weapons!

Having done the analysis, I can't see a reason to use them. High dps/low total damage is good for taking out small targets that are either nasty or skittish. However, the range is so small that you're wasting lots of time closing in, which means you're likely to either get blown up or run out of time any ways. It's ok if it's intended as a "bad starting weapon" or a "trap" for players who don't run the numbers. Otherwise, maybe lowering the price a bit for what is just a house made rocket might be good? Or is there a way for the runts to make some that I haven't discovered yet?

[pilot00]

Otherwise 30 and 50mm cannons are next, 30mm is a bit more costly for a bit more dps but at shorter range.

Did you have any success on downing anything classed as a military vessel with those? Most sorties I had with those equiped ended with my vessel barely making it out of combat gimping or lost. I believe the Stting rays are a necessity till you develop the more advanced guns. But I want to hear opinions cause I might do something wrong here.

Also a request to anyone able: Can somebody, upload here or give me a link to the April nightly? I did the mistake of not backing up this and I need it
As far as I can see the site has them removed.

[ivandogovich]

Also a request to anyone able: Can somebody, upload here or give me a link to the April nightly? I did the mistake of not backing up this and I need it
As far as I can see the site has them removed.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1898.msg45061.html#msg45061

I asked Dioxine to link this in the Opening Post, but I don't think he did.

[Galwail]

Thank you for all your advice, it seems 15 brainers is enough for now.

Another thing that surprised me was, that most of the starting weapons are really inefficient. I ended up using only axes, cattle prods, grenades, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns and Panzerfausts. Are there any other early game weapons you use?

[ivandogovich]

Thank you for all your advice, it seems 15 brainers is enough for now.

Another thing that surprised me was, that most of the starting weapons are really inefficient. I ended up using only axes, cattle prods, grenades, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns and Panzerfausts. Are there any other early game weapons you use?

Hammers are awesome for busting through walls, also, good at killin' .  Chainsaw will do the same.
Black Powder Bombs are awesome!!.
Smoke Grenades can be OP, because you can knock out your enemies without ever seeing them.  I like smoke ops gear for that reason.
I also like molotovs, but I'm not sure that they are terribly effective.  I still don't understand fire damage well enough.
I hear the flamethrowers can be amazing so I'm trying to test them a bit more.

[pilot00]

Thank you for all your advice, it seems 15 brainers is enough for now.

Another thing that surprised me was, that most of the starting weapons are really inefficient. I ended up using only axes, cattle prods, grenades, grenade launchers, heavy machine guns and Panzerfausts. Are there any other early game weapons you use?

Hammers for strong gals as Ivan said.
Blunderbusses. Those go way into the mid game, if you research the proper munitions for them and your gals have the stats. Boarding guns can double tap as snipper/heavy guns too but they require exceptional stats.  Cutlass also is a staple for the not so strong/fast gals. And Rapiers/shovels for the weak ones. Also the military shotgun becomes quite viable with the right ammo, so you might stock a number as you loot those. Oh and the mortar, cant go wrong with that, if you can afford it that is. Generally speaking you must have a mix of ranged/melee and a good number of throwables.

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1898.msg45061.html#msg45061

I asked Dioxine to link this in the Opening Post, but I don't think he did.

Merci. Maybe Dioxine forgot. It would be good to have this on the first post, till the new version becomes viable.

[Arthanor]

@pilot00: I'm not sure what you mean by "classed as a military vessel"? I have downed UFOs with those. In fact, currently I have the Bonny with 50mm + Charger laser and a hunter killer with 30mm + 25mm. The hunter killer can down large scouts by itself.

I have used both together to take out some more shooty stuff. Usually use the bonny to go first, soak up some damage, disengage at ~50% and let the hunter-killer finish the job. It's a risky thing to do though and a streak of hits can lead to disaster. Losing the bonny, the gals and their equipment is not something you can really recover from. But what's pirate life without some risks?

I am now making stingrays for the hunter-killer. I am also about to start building another interceptor, can't remember which though (either heavy or improved.. I got them at the same time and I can't tell them apart from memory), which will get rockets or cannons, or whatever the tech I am researching now turns out to be if that's better than what I have. I'll eventually make another 50mm for the Bonny, to take out small crafts, but it will increasingly be a transport since risking the gals is not a good thing to do.

@Galwail: 15 brainers indeed seems like enough until later in the game. They are not cheap and sustaining them depends on getting valuable shipping. I've been lucky with freighters one month, and now shrine ships, but on months where all you get are raiders or gunships, it's can be hard to cover their cost.

Panzerfaust are too expensive for my taste. High explosive packs do the job fine (I've blown up both cyberdiscs and humanist tanks with HE packs, boomosaurus and reapers are even easier), dynamite is almost as good as a HE pack and cheaper. RPGs are decent and you can loot some and make your own after some research too.

Otherwise, I've had a fair amount of luck with flamethrowers too, and sniper rifles are handy (especially with plastasteel ammo). I used to use the boarding gun as a high powered support rifle. Submachine guns (for reaction and accuracy training, and damage once you get acid clips) are good, confederate eagle and magnum (acid clips) work well with some higher accuracy troopers, and BlackMarch SMGs are not bad. Oh, and dart rifles with stun clips you loot, to grab some unarmored targets that are just far enough away you can't melee them.

[Dioxine]

The link to the proper Nightly is in the opening post now. I have indeed forgot, sorry!

I'll add to what has been said that the Dart Gun is also pretty powerful, you can try stunning Personal Armored guys with it no problem - only it's cumbersome with high TU costs and lamentable accuracy past 15-20 tiles.

Military-class vessels mean Gunships, Heavy Gunships, Fighters etc. Indeed it is nigh-impossible to tackle them with the Arthanor has, MAYBE if he sent the Heavy Fighter with a cannon first (it's good at soaking damage), and backed it up with his Bonny & HK, all armed with the best DPS he has.

Spike Rockets cannot really get any less expensive if there is to be any price logic on the market (they are larger than personal-use rockets, they have to be more expensive). I might consider buffing them up a bit, though. In theory, their great DPS was meant to be their selling point, but the total damage potential and low range make them of little use as of right now. They might see more use in Extended version, as the Bonny will have 4 weapon slots, and nothing but Spikes to mount on 2 of them for a long time.

[Arthanor]

I've dropped some small shooty-ish UFOs.. but I don't know the name. One was flown by raiders. Nothing medium sized though. As for spike being useful as "the only thing in the slot", it feels like it'd be even more of a "fool you out of your money" thing that way. In most situations either you didn't need to launch them or it's not enough to down the craft any ways, but if you forgot to disable them you lost up to 288k pretty fast in rockets.

They are a rather tricky thing to balance and I think keeping the market sensible is indeed important. Maybe the spikes could be loaded with lots of crappy & cheap explosives, so they are large and heavy and only useable on crafts, compared to personal use rockets which have to remain small and light so are built and loaded with high quality expensive stuff? This way they could be close in price despite their differences. Or have the runts find a way to make 'em, like some other stuff, and save on labour?