Author Topic: [submod]Submod list for XCF  (Read 16508 times)

Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2023, 10:38:11 pm »
The only real incompatibility so far has been the multi-craft hangar feature. Easy to fix manually, and has been WIP in the main fork for quite a while now, with several people offering their solutions. Maybe it'll become a feature sometime in the not too distant future, who knows?

A whole bunch of Brutal AI changes have actually been rejected by OXCE devs.

And, in any case, Brutal AI is a pretty radical departure from vanilla in a direction most of the big mods were never intended to deal with. So it's naturally going to have issues, but from another POV many of these issues are precisely the point of having a 'brutal' AI in the first place.


Natasha Morozova Join... mod does have some rather strange features, but these are about as incompatible with XCF itself as they are with BAI, i.e. none of this works particularly well without constant tweaking to accommodate for the changes to the parent mod/AI fork.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2023, 10:41:48 pm by Juku121 »

Offline zee_ra

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #31 on: October 21, 2023, 04:33:05 am »
The only real incompatibility so far has been the multi-craft hangar feature. Easy to fix manually, and has been WIP in the main fork for quite a while now, with several people offering their solutions. Maybe it'll become a feature sometime in the not too distant future, who knows?

A whole bunch of Brutal AI changes have actually been rejected by OXCE devs.

And, in any case, Brutal AI is a pretty radical departure from vanilla in a direction most of the big mods were never intended to deal with. So it's naturally going to have issues, but from another POV many of these issues are precisely the point of having a 'brutal' AI in the first place.

Thank you for sharing this.  I tried Brutal AI build earlier this year, but it turns out that there have been some weird performance issues in certain places occassionally.

I wonder, if it's possible to configure the mainline version of OXCE to have similar properties to Brutal AI?  Maybe, something like omniscience?  While the omniscience on the side of AI may balance strongly in favor of AI, it would provide a good basic challenge.

Also, is it possible to configure the mainline OXCE to have the aliens use rockets and grenades much more actively and proactively?  That would introduce a tough landing zone cleanup, but it is also a fact that tactics (rocketeers shooting from the alloy skyranger, and the inventory stash moved to the middle) do exist to overcome even such challenges.

Natasha Morozova Join... mod does have some rather strange features, but these are about as incompatible with XCF itself as they are with BAI, i.e. none of this works particularly well without constant tweaking to accommodate for the changes to the parent mod/AI fork.

I tried to fix the mod at one point, but gave up, since overhauling logic to streamline it would've meant essentially an mod rewrite.  I think that multiplying entities, especially soldier types, in an incompatible manner, and also incompatible with future upgrades in XCF (consider e.g. the new cybernetic upgrades), is an unsustainable approach.

Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #32 on: October 21, 2023, 05:52:04 am »
...it turns out that there have been some weird performance issues in certain places occassionally.
Yeah, performance is always a trade-off in making a good AI.

Maybe, something like omniscience?  While the omniscience on the side of AI may balance strongly in favor of AI, it would provide a good basic challenge.
I suppose you could change 'turn 20' to 'turn 1', or give all enemies unlimited psi-vision.

Also, is it possible to configure the mainline OXCE to have the aliens use rockets and grenades much more actively and proactively?
Don't think so. XCF enemies already blaster and grenade you as fast as they can.

mod rewrite
Indeed. The whole mod is kinda clunky, from what I saw during a brief look, and fixing that would basically be a new mod.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 05:58:52 am by Juku121 »

Offline zee_ra

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #33 on: October 21, 2023, 12:11:17 pm »
Yeah, performance is always a trade-off in making a good AI.
I suppose you could change 'turn 20' to 'turn 1', or give all enemies unlimited psi-vision.
Don't think so. XCF enemies already blaster and grenade you as fast as they can.

Thank you for sharing these insights.

What do you specifically refer to when talking about changing "turn 20" to "turn 1"?

Speaking more generally, how could I configure the mainline OXCE to have as aggressive XCF enemies as possible?  Ideally, that should not involve making any changes to the XCF itself.

I think, there's a bug in Brutal AI, since I had been having severe slowdowns on upper layers, as compared to lower ones.



Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #34 on: October 21, 2023, 12:21:25 pm »
'Turn 20' is when aliens spot your troops via mind bullets and come out of their UFO to kick ass be killed like lemmings. The setting that controls that is 'cheatTurn'.

I don't think it's possible to make vanilla AI appreciably more aggressive. You could increase the 'aggression' and 'intelligence' values for individual units, I guess. I haven't noticed that making too much of a difference, though.

Well, melee enemies can actually be made dangerous by changing them to leeroys, like Zombies already are. Personally, I quite like leeroying cryptids or Chryssalids, because now they're dangerous and the mission is much less likely to turn into a bughunt. But that's only a small subset of all enemies. There's even a submod of mine for that, though it's not very up to date.


Big maps and showing more layers or more terrain have always been a performance headache, BAI or no BAI. XCF changing the vision range to 40 doesn't help there, either. BAI bugs should go into the relevant thread, though, since only Xilmi can resolve them properly.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2023, 12:25:43 pm by Juku121 »

Offline zee_ra

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #35 on: October 21, 2023, 02:30:34 pm »
'Turn 20' is when aliens spot your troops via mind bullets and come out of their UFO to kick ass be killed like lemmings. The setting that controls that is 'cheatTurn'.

Thank you.  Is this setting available through the menu?

I don't think it's possible to make vanilla AI appreciably more aggressive. You could increase the 'aggression' and 'intelligence' values for individual units, I guess. I haven't noticed that making too much of a difference, though.

Well, melee enemies can actually be made dangerous by changing them to leeroys, like Zombies already are. Personally, I quite like leeroying cryptids or Chryssalids, because now they're dangerous and the mission is much less likely to turn into a bughunt. But that's only a small subset of all enemies. There's even a submod of mine for that, though it's not very up to date.


Big maps and showing more layers or more terrain have always been a performance headache, BAI or no BAI. XCF changing the vision range to 40 doesn't help there, either. BAI bugs should go into the relevant thread, though, since only Xilmi can resolve them properly.

Thank you for sharing this insight.

I wonder, if BAI is meant to be compatible with mainline OXCE such that it could run XCF in an essentially compatible way?

I think that the visibility setting 3 (that is, one short of omniscience) is a good spot for the AI to go.  The play is brutal enough to be fun, and yet could realistically be beaten by the player without casualties at all times, with good tactics.

It's always fun to take advantage of the area effect ordnance.  I wish there were more commendations for good artillery work. :evil:


Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #36 on: October 21, 2023, 11:32:18 pm »
No, 'cheatTurn' is a ruleset variable.


I think someone has been streaming XCF+BAI for a while now (and giving Xilmi feedback based on that), plus the other reports that occasionally surface here. I'm not sure it's fully 'supported', nor will ever be, but it seems to be compatible.


I imagine if you come up with some concrete proposals for the artillery commendations and, better yet, some artwork for them, Solarius will consider them. If they're not doable under the current commendation framework, you can always give it a shot in the OXCE subforum, too.

Offline zee_ra

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2023, 08:24:54 am »
No, 'cheatTurn' is a ruleset variable.


I think someone has been streaming XCF+BAI for a while now (and giving Xilmi feedback based on that), plus the other reports that occasionally surface here. I'm not sure it's fully 'supported', nor will ever be, but it seems to be compatible.


I imagine if you come up with some concrete proposals for the artillery commendations and, better yet, some artwork for them, Solarius will consider them. If they're not doable under the current commendation framework, you can always give it a shot in the OXCE subforum, too.

Ok.  All in all, it seems that the best approach would be to run BAI instead of OXCE for my long XCF sessions.

I have some developments with the ordnance variants.  If there's a way to post them on e.g. Github, or a similar public development repository, I'll consider contributing my rulesets and artwork.

Concerning the additional artillery commendations, I think that most relevant commendations should probably fall into the realm of total carnage and large weapons master.  Such commendations should be earnable by both artillery characters and also by BFG characters.

Perhaps, someone causing massive carnage while wielding a weapon that has explosive area effect and weighs more than e.g. 22 or 24, would be a source of commendation.

Offline varajo411

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #38 on: November 23, 2023, 03:23:19 pm »
this is a sub mod made by solarius, here the mongorns attack the player like zombies do.

Offline Belcanzor

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #39 on: December 04, 2023, 05:48:49 am »
Some mods no longer work.
Can you edit the front page and remove those?
- Megaphone
- Yautja hint
- Hangar
- Mwep (its updated but dont work)
Tested in openxcom_extended_v7.9.8-win64
Im downloading another version of openxcom.
Please tell me if I m doing something wrong.

Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #40 on: December 04, 2023, 08:47:53 pm »
Yautja hunt seems problematic indeed, made a new section for 'dead' mods.


The rest seem to load fine and have features that appear to work, though I did not do extensive tests. The only one I can say 100% works is the megaphone.

What were your issues with them? Mod didn't load (what was the error message?), mod crashed during gameplay, mod features didn't work as advertised or at all?

Offline Xylon666Darkstar

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #41 on: December 05, 2023, 07:04:39 am »
Hangar still works fine for me.

Offline Belcanzor

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #42 on: December 07, 2023, 03:28:47 am »
Yautja hunt seems problematic indeed, made a new section for 'dead' mods.


The rest seem to load fine and have features that appear to work, though I did not do extensive tests. The only one I can say 100% works is the megaphone.

What were your issues with them? Mod didn't load (what was the error message?), mod crashed during gameplay, mod features didn't work as advertised or at all?
For me they give a "fatal error" and go desktop.
For example: some mods crash IF you disable "lazy loading", as far I know that mean "missing sprites", in other words if you manage to load them later they can cause problems.
Please correct me if I m wrong on this.
Edit : I need money! Both in game and rl.
« Last Edit: December 07, 2023, 06:41:35 am by Belcanzor »

Offline Juku121

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #43 on: December 08, 2023, 02:05:47 am »
Please correct me if I m wrong on this.
You are not wrong, but you are not completely right, either.

Megaphone works fine with lazy loading. You can use the attached file to get the missing animation and kill the error, if you wish.

MWEP is similarly fucked (very minorly, though) and the author needs to unfuck it. I'm not going to try to deduce what image they were trying to reference with their '700' and '800'.

Hangar mod is completely okay, as far as I can tell. Well, unless you use BAI.

Yautja hunt has sound issues, which can be fixed with the other attachment.



Spoiler" Money?":
I need money! Both in game and rl.
Interesting. What other problems do you have that are shared between X-Com and real life? ;D

Offline Belcanzor

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Re: [submod]Submod list for XCF
« Reply #44 on: December 08, 2023, 04:35:29 am »
You are not wrong, but you are not completely right, either.

Megaphone works fine with lazy loading. You can use the attached file to get the missing animation and kill the error, if you wish.

MWEP is similarly fucked (very minorly, though) and the author needs to unfuck it. I'm not going to try to deduce what image they were trying to reference with their '700' and '800'.

Hangar mod is completely okay, as far as I can tell. Well, unless you use BAI.

Yautja hunt has sound issues, which can be fixed with the other attachment.



Spoiler" Money?":
Interesting. What other problems do you have that are shared between X-Com and real life? ;D
I m at loss of words. How very kind of you.
Question: The hangar cause some game unbalance?
These can be added mid game?
Also: Please dont worry about this. I report the mods that dont work, was not my intention to demand someone fix them.