Author Topic: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.6  (Read 13864 times)

Offline Nord

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #60 on: May 02, 2022, 02:54:42 am »
I haven't gotten that far myself, but as I understand it, you are trying to take on midgame & lategame enemies with early game/early midgame tech (you get X-rifles in the latter part of the first year) and regular operatives. That's not a balance issue, but the issue of either the RNG/bugs screwing you over or you missing something about the mod mechanics.
That is a balance issue, because no high-level enemy must spawn when you are not prepared. If you do things right, of course. Now legion and temples came too fast, as i think. Maybe i should implement arc scripts...
Logic dictates that this is correct. The taser has small harpoons that conduct electricity, so if they don't penetrate the armor, the electricity probably won't work.
Correct.

Offline xcommie

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2022, 12:32:16 pm »
Logic dictates that this is correct. The taser has small harpoons that conduct electricity, so if they don't penetrate the armor, the electricity probably won't work.
Afraid I must disagree. What if that armour is made of chainmail? High cutting defence (in the real world), and a fair kinetic defence but you're going to be enjoying several thousand volts if a tazer hits you.

Similarly a (sufficiently hot) fire-blade would cut straight through armour that has very high thermal conductivity in the same way a hot knife goes through margarine. And a freezing knife would dramatically increase the brittleness of certain materials making them more likely to shatter even if the damage is applied via cutting (doesn't matter if the knife cuts through the armour, only that the armour has high thermal conductivity to facilitate removing of the heat from the target's body). This is why there is type-specific damage ratings for the armour.

And again, from a game-play perspective (which is more important):
a) The tazer sprite is showing electrical damage.
b) It's necessary to facilitate capturing by having other types of capture damage.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2022, 02:13:15 pm »
The point about chainmail is not accurate. If there's an insulating layer below the armor, e.g. padding, then the electricity will travel preferentially through the metal of the armor, not the body. For example, safety gear for doing performances with Tesla coils includes what amounts to a full-body suit of chainmail.

Offline psavola

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2022, 09:13:10 pm »
I tested this with superhuman. Maybe that was my first mistake - I think many mods are balanced so that you should try much lower level at first.

It's rather difficult to make sense of the game mechanics. It makes no sense that a hunting knife or a basic spear is more efficient than guns against monsters.

In March I was already having a lot of trouble with an orc terror mission, but finally managed it with saves/reloads (each of them took about 3 spear hits; guns were mostly useless). In the beginning of April, a terror mission was spawned with a dozen spellcasters(?), minotaurs(?) etc. Completely impossible to handle more than a couple of them with spears or guns which you will have to hit 10 times to make an impact. I wonder if this is balancing issue, too difficult encounters coming too early, or I'm just missing something? Or like in TWoTS you get a large number of scripted missions way too early which you have zero chance to succeed so you are actually supposed to figure out it's impossible at that stage and abort the mission (e.g. polyph mission at start, alien dungeon when you still have gas cannors, etc.).

I was really interested in trying a fantasy setting but having little idea how you're supposed to manage the more difficult monsters will probably make me go back to more traditional and easily understandable mods. But I suppose some love this "discovery" approach.

Offline Nord

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #64 on: May 04, 2022, 03:53:34 am »
..Completely impossible to handle more than a couple of them with spears or guns which you will have to hit 10 times to make an impact. I wonder if this is balancing issue, too difficult encounters coming too early, or I'm just missing something? ..
Use explosives.

Offline luplay

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #65 on: May 05, 2022, 11:29:52 am »
Thanks for your sharing. It is very useful!

Offline psavola

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #66 on: May 06, 2022, 07:36:26 am »
Use explosives.

Yes, that helps a bit, but you may still need to use 3-4 each (or maybe more, when the throws miss). Quite a bit or grenanes if the mission includes about 12-18 monsters. Later on, there apparently were also tougher enemies such as barons with even higher shields. At that point, however, you already have access to the combined gun/grenade launcher (shouldn't the grenades produce an arcing shot? - I suppose the engine doesn't support arcing type for one kind of ammo, non-arcing for another, however), which is awesome and can be used to deal with all the enemies. Except, now, there is a new mission, "spirit hunt" and these don't seem to be able to deal any damage.

Offline xcommie

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #67 on: May 06, 2022, 06:36:41 pm »
Generally agree with your points about balance psavola. Orcs were a huge pain early on, but I'm afraid it only gets worse later on with new enemies. Fortunately Nord's reply earlier implied there may be a balance pass coming so might be worth waiting.

Except, now, there is a new mission, "spirit hunt" and these don't seem to be able to deal any damage.
They're basically impervious to almost everything (as in 0% damage!). Incendiaries (fire) are the way to go (revolver shotgun!). At the risk of too many spoilers:
Spoiler:
there aren't many of them in the battle

The point about chainmail is not accurate. If there's an insulating layer below the armor, e.g. padding, then the electricity will travel preferentially through the metal of the armor, not the body. For example, safety gear for doing performances with Tesla coils includes what amounts to a full-body suit of chainmail.
Duh, of course yes! Silly me! I've even seen people wearning the (grounded!) chainmail suits playing with giant Tesla coils.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2022, 06:38:23 pm by xcommie »

Offline psavola

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #68 on: May 07, 2022, 10:31:03 pm »
I had to skip those spirits, because there was no weapon accessible able to harm them. Now I'm in month 14, have set up a couple of bases - for the lack of anything else to do with the sponsor money - and just had the first landed UFO.

For the last 5-6 months, I have no longer had nothing to research, except a random new monster type or a live alien now and then. Looking at the research tree, to get any real progress one would likely have to capture more live enemies to learn of runic weapons, runes, magic, etc. The problem is that there appear to be no means to do so except by accident or by taking big risks of melee combat. Tazer appears to be a useless weapon so you're essentially out of options. Lore-wise requiring capturing more live enemies and interrogating them makes sense (also like in TWoTS) but I wonder if the means how to do so is balanced. The only thing I'm wondering are smoke grenades as an "attack weapon", because it appears to stun the soldiers in one turn, but the enemies don't appear to stay in it long enough or it's not otherwise effective. So, as it is, you just get a random stunning with regular weapons or a surrender now and then. And that doesn't seem to be enough to steadily progress the research tree with only ~50 researchers. EDIT: I had missed dart rifle and tranquilizer darts; those seem to be useful at least against goblins.

Another really strange feature is "melee-range dodging" - there is very little point why it is better to fire your weapons from 1 square away rather than from an adjacent square. I can't understand why you need to run 1 square away before counter-attacking, if an enemy comes next to you (and attacks you first). This makes me even wonder if there is some bug in this feature.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2022, 07:54:04 am by psavola »

Offline Bonegnasher

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #69 on: May 08, 2022, 02:25:55 pm »
I had to skip those spirits, because there was no weapon accessible able to harm them. Now I'm in month 14, have set up a couple of bases - for the lack of anything else to do with the sponsor money - and just had the first landed UFO. ...
Spirits
Spoiler:
can also be hurt by explosives. If you went with the US, normal, OICW M2 AR, and M202 grenades should have all killed it with a direct hit. Damage-type grenades for MILKOR MGL do kinetic damage instead of explosive but that's a bug, I figure.
Yeah, this mod expects you to capture at least some of the enemies for interrogation to make progress, that's why you've found your first UFO so relatively late. Enemy bodies are also useful but I think explosives have a high chance of destroying them. To capture them more reliably you can also use melee.
Melee-range dodging is the same as in Files/Piratez and etc. The idea is that the enemy has a reach to try to interrupt your agent's attacks by grabbing his arms, pushing the gun away or something similar. Your agents can do the same. Give some of your agents sticks and police batons and send them in melee more. It's a melee-heavy mod.

Offline Nord

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #70 on: May 09, 2022, 04:18:51 am »
...Damage-type grenades for MILKOR MGL do kinetic damage instead of explosive but that's a bug, I figure...
No, Milkor have frag grenades (like in reality), other grenade throwers have HE shots.

...Tazer appears to be a useless weapon so you're essentially out of options...

What about dart pistol/rifle?
And i think about adding back close-combat shock batons, like.. with melee damage and shock properties.

Offline xcommie

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #71 on: May 09, 2022, 08:55:06 pm »
What about dart pistol/rifle?
dart pistol/rifle do *less* damage (11) than a tazer (15)!
It's why I said previously that even mid-game enemies are somewhat impervious to all ranged capture tech.

Offline Nord

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #72 on: May 10, 2022, 02:58:39 am »
dart pistol/rifle do *less* damage (11) than a tazer (15)!
It's why I said previously that even mid-game enemies are somewhat impervious to all ranged capture tech.
But have way better range an damages target energy.

Offline psavola

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #73 on: May 10, 2022, 08:41:31 pm »
A large UFO landed and the mission seemed brutal. Something like a dozen of warriors with 80(?) shields and some mages with 120(?) shields. So the former take about 8-10 hits from the grenade launcher, the latter even more. Appears to be impossible unless you save/reload to get a very good starting position where they don't kill most of you at turn 1 and from where you can deal with them just one by one. Are you even supposed to be able to deal with them? How?

Offline xcommie

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Re: X-Chronicles Release, v.0.99.5
« Reply #74 on: May 10, 2022, 10:18:38 pm »
But have way better range an damages target energy.
I don't know about energy, but while I do love the dart rifle (for the accuracy), the point remains that they're pretty ineffectual against the armoured enemies.

Quote
A large UFO landed and the mission seemed brutal. Something like a dozen of warriors with 80(?) shields and some mages with 120(?) shields. So the former take about 8-10 hits from the grenade launcher, the latter even more. Appears to be impossible unless you save/reload to get a very good starting position where they don't kill most of you at turn 1 and from where you can deal with them just one by one. Are you even supposed to be able to deal with them? How?
Yeah, I know that feeling. :-( Especially as I had a terrible start.
I did it with copious amounts of save-scumming. The mages are fairly easy to kill with conventional weapons (if you survive their attacks). The warriors (legion footmen I guess) are a tedious annoying grind; they're why I simply gave up doing any mission that didn't have something worth capturing. I'd suggest waiting for the balance pass before continuing; I am.