Author Topic: [WIP] [Suggestion] Solar's wishlist  (Read 63965 times)

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #315 on: December 01, 2016, 09:05:02 pm »
Is it possible to make a ufo shot down by base defense spawn a crash site?

Yes, but it would mess with balance of base defenses.  To 'shoot down' an incoming UFO, you have to completely destroy it - twice the amount of damage it takes to crash land a UFO.  To have it just shoot down a UFO but not destroy it would mean that only half the base defenses are required to stop the assault and every incoming UFO would crash land instead of being destroyed.

So possible with some new code, but every modder would yell at you for destroying their work in making a meaningful decision between building base defenses, letting the UFO through, or trying to shoot it down before it reaches you.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #316 on: December 01, 2016, 09:13:12 pm »
I'd really love to see how would you implement that 'simplest' solution (making base defenses as difficult as to be unwelcome but not an instakill for early-mid game).

Well, alright, maybe it's not the simplest solution because it goes and rebalances key aspects of the game. It's a simple solution to the "need to code something so I can better exploit crackdowns" since it removes the need for coding by making base defenses always desirable. From the modder's (your) point of view, It's not a simple solution since it's a lot of extra modding work. Although I do believe that it could be achieved with multiple ranks in a given factions, and retaliations only using the hardcore ranks + being given hardcore weapons, combined with having a early game variant of the races with less hardcore ranks and weapons used for retaliations (and all the required ranks/weapons already exist). I also believe it's ok for base defenses to be a losing proposition in the early-mid game, since I don't believe pirates or modern humans should be able to stand up to pissed off global factions or aliens, respectively. Hence my mention of moving to a base, as a weaker guerilla/pirate/resistance faction would do.

But I won't go further into it. Since:

Please don't turn my question to a nerfing/buffing flamewar.

Is it possible to make a ufo shot down by base defense spawn a crash site?
That would be a good alternative to making defenses not fire since having a crash site means you could get all the good loot people want and you'd fight a slightly less advantageous battle since bases are usually designed to be easy to defend, compared to UFOs that are often a pain to clear.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #317 on: December 01, 2016, 10:00:03 pm »
Well at least as it currently stands in Piratez, early game crackdowns are pretty rare. Actually shooting down craft to generate the crackdowns is quite delayed. I wouldn't worry to much about early game specific base attack groups. If the player is pushing the air game sufficiently hard to generate crackdowns they have the resources to defend themselves. 

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #318 on: December 02, 2016, 12:12:59 am »
So basically:



Yes? :)

Offline legionof1

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #319 on: December 02, 2016, 12:20:06 am »
Pretty much. At least that has been by experience post airbus era.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #320 on: December 02, 2016, 01:26:34 am »
If it is doable:
What would make base defences a little more "believable" would be if in the first year (or something like that), the factions wouldn't do the crackdowns themselves but would hire bandits or raiders to do it. So after you defeat these henchmen several times, then they actually start sending their own security teams. It would also be nice if then the invaders were only military ranks and terror units.

A kind of hacky way to do this without new code:
Remove retaliation odds for shootdown of ufo, but instead tie retaliations to research. If the player researches certain crafts and craft weapons, you can assume that he will use them to do air combat. If he gets better craft weapons, you can assume he shoots down more important shippings. So you could design bandit and raider retaliations tied to hunter-killer research for example (with a long delay time), and then marsec and mercenary retaliations started by railgun tech.
To provide the fluff for these missions, the invading forces could carry mission briefing papers explaining why they attack you.

Bonus: no more first year retaliations with plasma weapons and blaster launchers. (Or am I wrong and base defence uses always the same weapon layout?)

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #321 on: December 02, 2016, 03:01:54 am »
Although I do believe that it could be achieved with multiple ranks in a given factions, and retaliations only using the hardcore ranks + being given hardcore weapons

Not really. They're already using best weapons. And even Mercs are a fodder. All it takes is to nuke hangars.

Bonus: no more first year retaliations with plasma weapons and blaster launchers. (Or am I wrong and base defence uses always the same weapon layout?)

It does. Can be overridden by retal race, but then it'd have to override all retal ship deploys as well, also in no way this can be tied to time without even crazier code complexity.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 03:05:28 am by Dioxine »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #322 on: December 02, 2016, 04:26:20 am »
Not really. They're already using best weapons. And even Mercs are a fodder. All it takes is to nuke hangars.

Well, yes, hangar nuking is pretty much the response to hideout assaults. But past the first one, you are (should be?) putting your loot severely at risk, and your VIP captures too since you're likely to obliterate everything. If you're willing to sacrifice both, then sure it's easy. But if the use of nukes becomes the way out of nasty crackdowns, that defeats farming and all is good as far as I'm concerned. So basically, my suggestion is/was "crackdowns should be nasty, best taken out either by air combat, base defence facilities or base defence tactics that are not conducive to farming". If you want the loot, shoot the things down and go get it. Shooting down a cruiser to get the VIP inside, even with the shield buff that makes beams useless, is totally doable. You don't need "loot delivery".

A task team of stormtroopers/marsec/mercs with boomguns, plasma spitters and scorchers + a few blasters or something (ie stuff that snapshots well + explodes to kill when having near misses and destroy walls) is a force that the factions should be able and willing to afford to get rid of a group that plagues their shipping. It even makes sense for them to deploy that way (similar to using flamethrowers to clear out tunnels/bunkers). It's not that much compared to all the ships that they deploy for a retaliation. Bring out the big guns on the ground like they do in the sky and teach them pirates that it wasn't a good idea to challenge their supremacy.

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #323 on: December 20, 2016, 03:17:10 pm »
It's certainly a big step forward. But I still think the next step should be a settable threshold fwor reaction fire. Accuracy 5% isn't noticeably different from 0%. If I could set it myself, I'd probably go for something like 30%, but someone else might prefer 20% (because of different personal preferences or different weapons choice), so I don't think enforcing a particular threshold would be a good idea.

Here you go:

Code: [Select]
minReactionAccuracy: 30

I still strongly recommend to keep it at default value = 0.
For example, reacting with baby nuke at 1% is as deadly as with 30%...

EDIT: btw. "30" means "don't shoot with 30 or less, shoot only with 31 or more"
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 03:21:34 pm by Meridian »

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #324 on: December 30, 2016, 04:57:38 pm »
Actually I thought of making it an option, not a ruleset variable... But it's already something too, as people may make minimods which only affect the reaction.


EDIT:
Can't edit the file right now, so putting it here.

Random Manufacturing
A manufacturing project has many possible outcomes. the resulting item is chosen randomly, according to a list with weighs.
(There are several potential uses, for example "unpacking" a parcel to find random treasure. Yes, it can be done with random loot, but in some cases it's not exactly enough.)

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #325 on: December 30, 2016, 06:08:00 pm »
Random Manufacturing
A manufacturing project has many possible outcomes. the resulting item is chosen randomly, according to a list with weighs.
(There are several potential uses, for example "unpacking" a parcel to find random treasure. Yes, it can be done with random loot, but in some cases it's not exactly enough.)

If you want this backwards-compatible, then I can do:
1. either same weights... and keep possibility to manufacture more than 1 item
2. or use number of produced items as weight... and produce always just one item

If you want both, I would have to introduce a new attribute (can't reuse "producedItems") and make it a bit messier than it already is.


Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #326 on: December 30, 2016, 06:34:59 pm »
If you want this backwards-compatible, then I can do:
1. either same weights... and keep possibility to manufacture more than 1 item
2. or use number of produced items as weight... and produce always just one item

If you want both, I would have to introduce a new attribute (can't reuse "producedItems") and make it a bit messier than it already is.

Right now I am interested in getting just one item, randomized according to weighs... Getting more would be an interesting option though, if not hard to code.

Also, I have a question regarding randomizedItems and YAML. Can you changed this list

Code: [Select]
              itemList: [STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE, STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY, STR_AXE, STR_AXE, STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE, STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE, STR_STUN_ROD, STR_STUN_ROD, STR_MEDI_PACK, STR_MEDI_PACK, STR_MEDI_PACK, STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS, STR_MUTANT_BLOOD_PLASMA, STR_PSICLONE, STR_PSICLONE, STR_ALIEN_GRENADE, STR_SONIC_PULSER, STR_GAUSS_PISTOL_CLIP, STR_GAUSS_RIFLE_CLIP, STR_HEAVY_GAUSS_CLIP, STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_CH, STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_I, STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK, STR_PLASMA_CASTER_CLIP, STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP, STR_SONIC_PISTOL_CLIP, STR_SONIC_BLASTA_RIFLE_CLIP, STR_SONIC_CANNON_CLIP, STR_CONCUSSION_CANNON_CLIP, STR_TLETH_SPEAR, STR_TLETH_HATCHET, STR_VIBRO_BLADE, STR_MONEY_BRIEFCASE, STR_MONEY_BRIEFCASE]

Into something like this:

Code: [Select]
              itemList:
                - STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE
                - STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY
                - STR_AXE
                - STR_AXE
                - STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE
                - STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE
                - STR_STUN_ROD
                - STR_STUN_ROD
                - STR_MEDI_PACK
                - STR_MEDI_PACK
                - STR_MEDI_PACK
                - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
                - STR_MUTANT_BLOOD_PLASMA
                - STR_PSICLONE
                - STR_PSICLONE
                - STR_ALIEN_GRENADE
                - STR_SONIC_PULSER
                - STR_GAUSS_PISTOL_CLIP
                - STR_GAUSS_RIFLE_CLIP
                - STR_HEAVY_GAUSS_CLIP
                - STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_CH
                - STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_I
                - STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK
                - STR_PLASMA_CASTER_CLIP
                - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP
                - STR_SONIC_PISTOL_CLIP
                - STR_SONIC_BLASTA_RIFLE_CLIP
                - STR_SONIC_CANNON_CLIP
                - STR_CONCUSSION_CANNON_CLIP
                - STR_TLETH_SPEAR
                - STR_TLETH_HATCHET
                - STR_VIBRO_BLADE
                - STR_MONEY_BRIEFCASE
                - STR_MONEY_BRIEFCASE

Or preferably even this:

Code: [Select]
              itemList:
                - STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE: 2
                - STR_CYBERWEB_BATTERY: 8
                - STR_AXE: 2
                - STR_INCENDIARY_GRENADE: 2
                - STR_STUN_ROD: 2
                - STR_MEDI_PACK: 3
                - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS: 1
                - STR_MUTANT_BLOOD_PLASMA: 1
                - STR_PSICLONE: 2
                - STR_ALIEN_GRENADE: 1
                - STR_SONIC_PULSER: 1
                - STR_GAUSS_PISTOL_CLIP: 1
                - STR_GAUSS_RIFLE_CLIP: 1
                - STR_HEAVY_GAUSS_CLIP: 1
                - STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_CH: 1
                - STR_CANISTER_GUN_CLIP_I: 1
                - STR_TOXIGUN_FLASK: 1
                - STR_PLASMA_CASTER_CLIP: 1
                - STR_PLASMA_PISTOL_CLIP: 1
                - STR_SONIC_PISTOL_CLIP: 1
                - STR_SONIC_BLASTA_RIFLE_CLIP: 1
                - STR_SONIC_CANNON_CLIP: 1
                - STR_CONCUSSION_CANNON_CLIP: 1
                - STR_TLETH_SPEAR: 1
                - STR_TLETH_HATCHET: 1
                - STR_VIBRO_BLADE: 1
                - STR_MONEY_BRIEFCASE: 2

It would make things much easier to read and write...

Online Meridian

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #327 on: December 30, 2016, 06:42:52 pm »
Code: [Select]
  bla: [bla1, bla2]

and

Code: [Select]
  bla:
    - bla1
    - bla2

are equivalent... you can use the one you prefer

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #328 on: December 30, 2016, 06:51:26 pm »
are equivalent... you can use the one you prefer

Thanks, I hoped for this to be true.

Offline Eddie

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Re: Solar's wishlist
« Reply #329 on: January 01, 2017, 07:00:59 pm »
I have an idea regarding grenade balance. Since we now have the code to restrict inventory slots to certain items, how about restricting primed grenades to be hand only items? That would be a good way to remove the sillyness of having potentially 10+ primed grenades in your inventory and the resulting grenade spam.