Author Topic: Old OXCE discussion thread  (Read 230394 times)

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1050 on: November 26, 2016, 03:41:03 pm »
Yes.

I'm not really trying to tell you how to play the game, but you are also and LP-er, and that would be a gross misrepresentation of how the actual mod works.

To be honest I have no idea why you wouldn't like this feature that simply removes a gross simplification of the original engine; to me that is like saying that you'd prefer all maps to only have one level, because having multiple levels is "unnecessary and visually disturbing". I'm not judging, but this sentence is just completely out there to me, I just can't accept it as it is because it sounds... completely random. But okay, people have different needs, maybe there's someone who can only play X-Com when wearing blue slippers or something - I don't have a problem with that. But not having this obvious engine improvement in the LP will in my opinion be harmful for said LP, and with no good reason whatsoever that I could understand and accept.

So yes, as a LP viewer I do have a real problem with this.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1051 on: November 26, 2016, 03:54:58 pm »
The old lighting system literally looks like shit compared to the new one, it is also very unnatural (drop a flare on the roof, get the whole building illuminated; and, when you want to hide, the only option is to run, instead of simply stepping into a dark corner), but to each their own... What's need to be done is some ironing out of the new system (light getting trapped in some light-generating objects, only illuminating the floor but not the object or surroundings).

Offline Meridian

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1052 on: November 26, 2016, 04:08:21 pm »
@Solarius
I didn't invent this five minutes ago just to start a flamewar or something.

This is my honest assessment, after playing quite a lot.

All maps with artificial lighting look total crap at the moment (sorry for the expression) and maps with natural lighting also look just bad to me. The jagged edges of the cone of light (when going diagonally along the tiles) are pretty irritating and sudden bursts of bright light when opening the doors are also disturbing me (not to mention sometimes they form most weird patterns).

I don't consider this an "obvious" improvement... not everything that is more complicated or more realistic is always an improvement.
I like simple things and many times they work for me a lot better than complicated ones... btw. that's how this game (=xcom) (in my opinion) got so great... by simplifying an immensely complicated alien invasion simulator. Xcom is not a military-grade simulator, nor some kind of "Matrix".

During my time on the forum, I've noticed how you crave for "realism" and come up with things like "many types of alien containment" or "everybody can do everything"... and I respect your opinions... it's just my opinion on this is exactly the opposite. What you call "gross simplification", I call "clever abstraction"... at the end, only thing that counts is the "game experience". And my game experience with the new lighting is worse than is was before.

Lastly, "harmful for the LP" is really just a desperate cry... there's tons of xcom LPs and people watch them now and will continue watching them in the future... with or without this particular game element.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2016, 04:22:54 pm by Meridian »

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1053 on: November 26, 2016, 04:18:21 pm »
I don't consider this an "obvious" improvement... not everything that is more complicated or more realistic is always an improvement.
I like simple things and many times they work for me a lot better than complicated ones... btw. that's how this game (=xcom) (in my opinion) got so great... by simplifying an immensely complicated alien invasion simulator. Xcom is not a military simulator, nor some kind of "Matrix".

Absolutely agreed, but all depends what you consider clever simplification and what you consider dumb simplification... And this will naturally vary between people.

Online Solarius Scorch

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1054 on: November 26, 2016, 04:43:54 pm »
I'm not sure if we're supposed to continue this discussion here or on your LP thread, but it does concern features, so...

Okay, so I'm a bad designer, fine. But it's not really a question of "realism", which is obviously impossible in this kind of game - I am well aware of that, I've been making mods for 10 years. I just think the old lighting system looks really bad, and the new one looks way better. Sure, everyone has their standards, but that's not really good enough, otherwise there would be nothing to talk about whatsoever. And I remember many people lauding the new system and not a single voice against it, until now, so I thought it would be worthwhile to speak up.

Anyway, I stated my honest opinion, that's it. I really don't think this is a subject worth a flamewar, especially since I respect you immensely Meridian and that's why I am speaking my mind openly.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1055 on: November 26, 2016, 11:14:42 pm »
Talking about LP's, just don't disable it while doing underwater missions in Piratez. The whole visual effect of them depends on this dynamic lighting. Without it, they will look just like any other missions. Normally the ligting is not even noticeable, since the player either fights at night, with the NV, or at day, when everything is fully lit.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1056 on: November 26, 2016, 11:22:47 pm »
Talking about LP's, just don't disable it while doing underwater missions in Piratez. The whole visual effect of them depends on this dynamic lighting. Without it, they will look just like any other missions. Normally the ligting is not even noticeable, since the player either fights at night, with the NV, or at day, when everything is fully lit.

It's unlikely that the option will be implemented before I finish the LP :)

It's not my priority and I guess also Yankes has other priorities at the moment. But once I start playing Area 51 (which will be probably the next LP), I'd like to have that option available.

Offline Eddie

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1057 on: November 28, 2016, 02:53:09 am »
Concerning the light engine:
Sometimes there are strange things happening where units apparently are illuminated that appead to be standing in darkness. Picture and save attached. The selected girl just got reaction fired on. I would guess the light responsible is coming from the bush?

Offline Yankes

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1058 on: November 28, 2016, 10:21:23 pm »
I will look on this.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1059 on: November 28, 2016, 11:19:36 pm »
In Piratez it can be pretty hard to tell when a unit is illuminated or not, because there are many weak light sources and low illumination is sometimes indistinguishable from darkness on some terrains (despite counting as fully illuminated).

Offline Yankes

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1060 on: December 04, 2016, 05:57:49 pm »
Thanks!

Also, testing 3.5, I found some funky unit animation.... not sure if it's because of OXC or OXCE, but it doesn't do this in 3.3.

Example here: https://youtu.be/vEJZsesymKA

Don't know how to describe it, hopefully it's visible enough.

EDIT: seems to be an issue with 2x2 units... tanks suffer similar effects
Commit that fix bug with big unit animation: https://github.com/Yankes/OpenXcom/commit/64168e2befa7cf249cf9b549405ce5bef05d88f8
You can cherry-pick it or wait week or two for next version of OXCE

Offline Meridian

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1061 on: December 06, 2016, 12:36:44 am »
Thanks, I'll wait for 3.6.

In the meantime, there is one more CTD bug, probably in OXCE code: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4187.msg75619.html#msg75619
Tested on your "develop" branch.

Offline Yankes

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1062 on: December 06, 2016, 02:02:03 am »
I will look on this.

Offline Meridian

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1063 on: December 08, 2016, 11:44:59 am »
I filter out some less interesting commits. But still over 200 lines.

A bit more readable changelog from 3.3 to 3.5 (merged stuff from vanilla).

New ruleset:
  - alienDeployment.cheatTurn ... custom cheat turn
  - alienDeployment.turnLimit ... custom turn limit
  - alienDeployment.chronoTrigger ... what to do when mission timer expires (win, abort, lose)
  - alienDeployment.isAlienBase ... just to mark what is alien base mission, deployment used from alienMission.siteType (not hardcoded "STR_ALIEN_BASE_ASSAULT")
    - more info: https://colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/openxcom?date=2016-06-08#l167
  - alienDeployment.genMission ... weighted table of missions generated for alien bases (e.g. supply)
  - alienDeployment.genMissionFreq ... frequency for these (check xcom1 ruleset for examples)
  - mod.defeatScore ... unhardcoded defeat conditions
  - mod.defeatFunds ... unhardcoded defeat conditions
  - alienMission.siteType ... unhardcoded what site spawns for alien base missions or infiltration missions
  - craft.radarChance ... unhardcoded detection chances
  - item.waypoints ... changed from boolean to integer
  - research.destroyItem ... replacement for user option to spend researched items
  - ufo.missionScore ... amount of points awarded every 30 min when UFO is flying (double when landed)
  - unit.psiWeapon ... unhardcoded alien psi weapon
  - unit.builtInWeaponSets ... before there was only one set

Updates in existing ruleset:
  - alienDeployment.markerIcon ... can be custom (ID bigger than vanilla)
  - craft can be used as manufacturing requirement
  - unhardcoded recovery points for fuel (item.recoveryPoints)

New options:
  - QoL: hotkey for soldier autoequip (Z)
  - added option to disable soldier diaries (=less stuff in the save file)
  - added option for touch interface.... not sure what it is for
  - TFTD manufacture rules is now used also for UFO
  - removed spend researched items option; added retain corpses option
  - predict UFO trajectory option => I don't recommend this, it's slow, sometimes completely wrong and poorly implemented

New GUI:
  - added end-game stats screen

Other:
  - added mod version to saved games
  - unified hostile AI and neutral AI
  - changed font format
  - added kneel indicator
  - disabled reaction fire from beyond range
  - changed how infiltration "pact" score is awarded (at month end)
  - a lot of soldier diaries/commendations stuff -> can now be tested again and fixed/updated for OXCE

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: [EXE] OpenXcom Extended
« Reply #1064 on: December 15, 2016, 07:13:17 pm »
Hey Yankes, I've got a CTD bug using OXCE+ 3.5 to play TFTD on Ubuntu, I first checked with Meridian here.  I've narrowed it down to getTerrainLevel() in Savegame/Tile.cpp.  Would you mind taking a look at it?

Edit: With the debugger, it happens at line 300 of Tile.cpp, when checking if a specific tile has a floor - "_object[O_FLOOR]" during a call from TileEngine::addLight, at line 491.  In this specific instance when I get the CTD, the position 'center' points to a tile with a memory address of 0x0... which doesn't seem right at all.  However, I was able to prevent the CTD by causing the USO to land in a different geoscape texture, so a different map was generated.

More Edit: The position of the tile, 'center', was at x = 54, y = 6, z = 0, but the map size in x was 50, so it was trying to place a light source out of bounds.  I'm attaching a save a bit closer to the crash.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2016, 08:18:14 pm by ohartenstein23 »