Real weapons overhaul discussion

[Eddie]

Shorter M4A1, and another with my attempt at putting a red dot on it. Also, the sprites I use for the AP ammo.

[chronocide_commando]

Unpopular opinion: the stats of "normal" firearms belonging to the same class are so similar (both IRL and in XCF) that half of them are basically redundant and could be simply removed. Things like 5 points of accuracy aren't really significant.

[Solarius Scorch]

Unpopular opinion: the stats of "normal" firearms belonging to the same class are so similar (both IRL and in XCF) that half of them are basically redundant and could be simply removed. Things like 5 points of accuracy aren't really significant.

Yes, we could have one rifle and one pistol, like in vanilla. But where's the fun in that?

[Meridian]

Yes, we could have one rifle and one pistol, like in vanilla. But where's the fun in that?

I politely disagree.
Vanilla is super fun.

[ohartenstein23]

I politely disagree.
Vanilla is super fun.

Vanilla also had the option to just use rocket launchers from the very start. XCF doesn't afford you that luxury until a while into the game. That one pistol or rifle is likely your best bet until then.

[chronocide_commando]

Yes, we could have one rifle and one pistol, like in vanilla. But where's the fun in that?

More like 2 or 3. It makes perfect sense that some factions use M16 while others use AKM, and there's some gameplay difference between those two, but L85 is already kinda pointless, let alone AK-47 that's practically identical to AKM.
Then they're all made obsolete by BlackOps anyway.

[MemoryTAS]

I don't mind having a good amount of variations but a fair amount of them are rather close in function. I don't think the L85 is really useless but I also can't say I really ended up using it. Maybe if I got more missions that fed more into its range I'd consider it a lot heavier but I didn't really get too many before switching over to primarily blackops, magma, and uac.

AK47 tho feels just like "I don't have any AKMs yet guess I'll just use this for now" and is completely obsoleted by the AKM. The buy/sell price is even the same between the two, when the AK47 should probably made to be cheaper if it gets completely outclassed.

I don't feel they're made obsolete by blackops right away even if blackops is better, they're still way cheaper than any blackops gear so they're arguably better for when you don't NEED the extra power until space requirements start eating at you and you have the budget to afford using the better stuff basically all the time.

[Solarius Scorch]

I politely disagree.
Vanilla is super fun.

Sure it is, but this is a mod, so I should add something.

Naturally I was referring to the fact that "redundant weapons" is an argument that I could never understand, It's unfathomable to me. One could just as well ask why play games at all, since they're "redundant" to life...

Before this escalates further: everyone has their own idea of how games should work, and I am not going to dictate to others what they should think... But this is my mod, it contains what I personally want to see in it, and the next person to say that some weapon or other element is "redundant" can officially go shag themsleves.

[Yankes]

"redundant" weapons have some use too, not for core game play perspective but for overall game and feel.
Russian gangster could run with generic M16 rifle but it would better if they have AK47 even if was reskin of generic rifle.
As I understand X-com Files is narration heavy mod, and adding flavor weapons only enhance this.

Image human based plasma weapons for some fraction, its could be even objectively worse that aliens one but it will fit and expand lore.
This could be used for core game play too as stop gap solution to smooth transition between weapons tiers.

[Mrvex]

Image human based plasma weapons for some fraction, its could be even objectively worse that aliens one but it will fit and expand lore.
This could be used for core game play too as stop gap solution to smooth transition between weapons tiers.

They do already exist, Cyberweb has some pathetic attempts, UAC has actually gotten some decent plasma weapons going, even if still weak when compared to the body shattering plasma blasts from alien, elerium powered weapons. And it does fit these two factions given their high tech and experimental nature.

Even then, even with confiscated weapons i rather not even bother with plasma weapons till i get the actually good alien stuff, alot of things resist plasma damage and its just better to shoot someone with a high caliber rifle across the entire map and drop them in one hit, with ammo you can buy whenever you want, regardless of your progress.

[chronocide_commando]

"redundant" weapons have some use too, not for core game play perspective but for overall game and feel.
Russian gangster could run with generic M16 rifle but it would better if they have AK47 even if was reskin of generic rifle.
As I understand X-com Files is narration heavy mod, and adding flavor weapons only enhance this.

Sure, it makes sense to have AK-47 as a weapon for Bedouins and Russian gangsters, but what's the point of AKM then? It's the same thing.
FAMAS as a weapon for Dagon cultists doesn't make sense even as a flavor weapon (let alone as a meaningful alternative to M16). Why FAMAS?

Even if you tweak their stats relative to each other to be more realistic, it won't be an overhaul. The end result will be mostly the same.

[MemoryTAS]

Again, I really feel that if the AK47 is outclassed by the AKM in all respects, either the AK47 should be cheaper or the AKM more expensive. Granted, by the time you could actually purchase both, you will almost certainly be able to afford just buying AKMs but it'd at least give a sort of reason for them to both exist if only in-universe.

FAMAS, etc. I really don't have much of an opinion on. I can't comment on how much FAMAS matches up in terms of availability within the real world, but if the accuracies are different it's really up to the player to figure out which they like and which they don't like. Worst comes to worst you can just use auto-sell manager in advanced options to help get rid of stuff you don't like. Removing a gun because some people find it not very useful risks removing another person's favorite.

[Slaughter]

L65 is useless? I never got that memo, I often carry it, AFAIK its a good alternative to the other 5,56 rifles and better at bursting than most of them. I consider it an upgrade on the MP5.

I do think some guns seem to occupy some weird niche, where they seem to be "stuck" between tiers. AK47 is one example, if you can get the AK47 you can get the AKM. AK47 is mainly useful as a early drop.

I also think its kind of a meta-gaming issue, because early on you're using your few scientists to do actual research not to look at stats of possibly useless guns and see which one works for you.

One idea I had: If we're going to have weapon customization like scopes and such, why not make it something done by engineers? Engineers practically are there only to open ammo boxes and create alien trace flares early on. I guess pretty mundane changes like scopes would't even require special resources, I mean scopes are just scopes.

Another idea I also had was the possibility of X-COM making Wildcat Cartridges for their own use. Which could end up in some pretty weird and unconventional rounds - like poison bullets, alien fuel tracer bullets, etc. Would need careful balancing, through.

[AlicePaws]

Can I use your 5.45mm AP clips for my AN-94 assault rifle? fully credited, its just one gun but the clips are a nice addition