Author Topic: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger  (Read 2262 times)

Offline Markus Ramikin

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« on: March 05, 2021, 01:56:32 pm »
I'm pretty sure this isn't supposed to happen. Also, what joker at X-Com R&D designed the front visor to be one-way transparent in favor of the aliens instead of the troopers inside?

Savegame attached. Just end turn.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 01:58:30 pm by Markus Ramikin »

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2021, 02:44:05 pm »
The visor is not transparent, and it is also not one-way. As far as I can say.

There is a tiny hole in the avenger (highlighted in red on the left).
Alien can see a soldier through that hole, soldier cannot see the alien.

The reason is the same as why Alice can see Bob, but Bob cannot see Alice... on the diagram on the right.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 02:45:42 pm by Meridian »

Offline Markus Ramikin

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2021, 05:00:16 pm »
Nice. I should have used the debug view myself.

Did this happen in the original game?

So this is a well known problem? Is it unfixed because 1. it's hard to fix 2. deliberately kept as a vanilla "feature" 3. just haven't gotten around to it yet?
« Last Edit: March 05, 2021, 05:06:41 pm by Markus Ramikin »

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2021, 05:16:15 pm »
Did this happen in the original game?

Don't know, very likely yes.

So this is a well known problem?

No, it's not well known, I hear it for the first time.
But I don't normally camp in the craft :)

Is it unfixed because 1. it's hard to fix 2. deliberately kept as a vanilla "feature" 3. just haven't gotten around to it yet?

I don't know.
It looks easy to fix, but I never did even a single xcom map in my life, so I can be completely wrong.

From DEV standpoint, it works fine :)

Offline Markus Ramikin

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2021, 05:38:42 pm »
camp
As a player of multiplayer shooters, what can I say but
TRIGGERED!

It's not camping I just wanted to exit on turn 2 to avoid running into everyone having max reactions mkay

Quote
From DEV standpoint, it works fine
What do you mean?

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 7806
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2021, 05:51:50 pm »
What do you mean?

I mean that the openxcom engine did everything correctly.
There is a hole in the craft and the alien correctly tried to shoot through that hole.

As a developer I cannot know if the map author wanted to make a hole in the craft or not.
So it's not a bug from DEV perspective.
There is nothing to fix in the openxcom c++ source code.

If the map should be changed or not... is not my decision to make.

Offline Markus Ramikin

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 83
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2021, 01:11:04 am »
I see, thanks for explaining.

Hopefully someone who does feel they have the power to change things like this reads this post one day. Or maybe someone can make a mod out of this...
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 01:13:37 am by Markus Ramikin »

Offline mumbler

  • Squaddie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2021, 01:05:21 pm »
Quote
As a developer I cannot know if the map author wanted to make a hole in the craft or not.

While I understand this sentiment, please consider the following:
Whether or not the authors intended it is irrelevant.
Consider what it means in gameplay terms. In extremely rare situations and at no other time, aliens are able to see into the craft.
Most players will never encounter this situation and will assume the craft to be entirely opaque with the exception of the opening at the back.

Quote
If the map should be changed or not... is not my decision to make.

Who exactly can make this decision?

Offline Yankes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2873
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2021, 01:25:28 pm »
While I understand this sentiment, please consider the following:
Whether or not the authors intended it is irrelevant.
Consider what it means in gameplay terms. In extremely rare situations and at no other time, aliens are able to see into the craft.
Most players will never encounter this situation and will assume the craft to be entirely opaque with the exception of the opening at the back.

Who exactly can make this decision?
Meridian said that code work correctly, there is hole in craft and game engine need respect it.
Map maker is responsible for fixing things like this, in some cases modder would like have "holes" like this, in X-Piratez some craft have "windows" that give you similar effect, you could be sniped by enemy even you could not see him.

For original data where nobody is responsible then you could try create OXC mod that could patch this holes and if it will work correctly then
ask SupSuper to include it to nightly version of OXC or you can release it as stand alone mod.

Offline kevL

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 428
  • pitchforks and torches
    • View Profile
Re: Aliens shooting through the front of the Avenger
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2021, 06:01:20 pm »
Who exactly can make this decision?

i think the proper place is OpenXcom TFTD Patch
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,8139.0.html