Author Topic: Minor changes  (Read 6776 times)

Offline coorta88

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Minor changes
« on: January 26, 2021, 10:45:01 am »
Hi there

First I want to congratulate you on this excellent mod. I spent long time trying to beat it and (for most parts) I enjoyed it.

I apologise in forward if I sound rude (and for my relatively lacking knowledge of english language) but I have some suggestions that I think would improve game.
1.Osiron ship missions are too large. Is it really neccessary for ship mission to contain both below and above decks part ? It makes this mission unnecessarily long and sometimes boring.
2.Syndicate skyscraper suffers from the same. Are 30 stories (or somewhat less or more, I don´t remeber at this point precisely how large they were) really neccessary for these relatively simple missions ?
3.For undercover missions you can armor your agents in later missions in bulletproof coat but with awesome knowledge you possess late in game (terramite processing , alien alloys processing, aqua plastics etc...), would it not be possible to produce something better with armor stats I dont know at least 25-25-25-20 ?
4.The last thing is not suggestion but question. I researched topics regarding dreaming but I don´t know how to get mission in dreamscape. What must I do in order to get it ?




Offline coorta88

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2021, 11:14:46 am »
And another suggestion I forgot to add.

Would it not be possible for light missles to be installed in heavy missles hardpoints on crafts ?

Offline Mrvex

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2021, 12:42:48 pm »
Skyscraper map is indeed way too large, one saving graces for massive maps is that once you kill most enemies, the rest will just surrender. But Syndicate has mechs who cannot surrender so you need to clear it out, level by level until you destroy all mechanical enemies so the rest will surrender. This one though applies for Osiron cruiser, just whack 70% of its crew and then put your men in overwatch mode and just skip turns and enemies might surrender as some of then walk to your men to be shot in the head the moment they poke their heads out of the elevator.

Bullet Proof coat, yes the protection it gives (even with webwear) is quite laughable actually since some undercover missions put you against enemies wielding UAC grade weapons... chainguns and rocket launchers. Or plasma pistols/energy weapons in general.

With impresonatron and some hologram projectors i think it would be feasible for XCOM to create a hologram fake appereance for their agents to appear to be wearing suits/civilian clothes but under that they would wear Cyber armour which would also power it at price of no bonuses to reaction fire and night vision as the power is rerouted to the projector. And unless someone touches them directly, nobody will notice it. Powerarmour is too bulky to conceal and the heavy steps would give it away so cyber armour is the best in terms of protection, physical size and utility. Now that would be next level infiltration, faking your appereance to sneak in heavy armour.

To get to dreamscape, the easier option is to get Master Wo Zhu (Black Lotus) and his scroll, then research it and then you can expect to get it. Its one of a time mission and rare to get. But then you can get the dreamscape missions from time to time. Although i was disapointed when i discovered i cannot use the cake to boost psi skill above what the psy lab can do to make super-psiops.





« Last Edit: January 26, 2021, 02:46:10 pm by Mrvex »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2021, 03:53:21 pm »
Hi there

First I want to congratulate you on this excellent mod. I spent long time trying to beat it and (for most parts) I enjoyed it.

I apologise in forward if I sound rude (and for my relatively lacking knowledge of english language) but I have some suggestions that I think would improve game.

Thank you very much, and please don't hesitate to sharee fair criticism. (You are not being rude at all!)

1.Osiron ship missions are too large. Is it really neccessary for ship mission to contain both below and above decks part ? It makes this mission unnecessarily long and sometimes boring.

I like the map on the whole, but maybe it's too big for this particular mission. I could use the original TFTD map instead (either the upper or lower deck), but it would feel a bit illogical to ignore half of the ship. The best solution would be to make a whole smaller ship, but it's not an easy thing to do.

2.Syndicate skyscraper suffers from the same. Are 30 stories (or somewhat less or more, I don´t remeber at this point precisely how large they were) really neccessary for these relatively simple missions?

There are only two such missions in the game, and I wanted them to feel special. (they're not 30 stories though, only around 20 ;)

Actually my problem is the opposite, I find these missions too short because enemies tend to jump from windows and engage me on land...

Anyway, while I understand hjat not everyone likes such long missions, there are very few of them per campaign and I would like to keep them as they are. Storming a corpo sky scrapper is just too much of a staple to omit. ;)

3.For undercover missions you can armor your agents in later missions in bulletproof coat but with awesome knowledge you possess late in game (terramite processing , alien alloys processing, aqua plastics etc...), would it not be possible to produce something better with armor stats I dont know at least 25-25-25-20 ?

I fear this would make the whole concept of undercover missions meaningless... The point is to go, well, in somewhat civilian clothes. Else I wouldn't bother with such limitations.

4.The last thing is not suggestion but question. I researched topics regarding dreaming but I don´t know how to get mission in dreamscape. What must I do in order to get it ?

If they're unlocked, you just wait until such a mission appears. They're rare.

And another suggestion I forgot to add.

You can always edit the post. ;)

Would it not be possible for light missles to be installed in heavy missles hardpoints on crafts ?

Technically possible. But not sure if a good idea. Can you justify more?

Although i was disapointed when i discovered i cannot use the cake to boost psi skill above what the psy lab can do to make super-psiops.

It wasn't technically viable when I made it. I think it is now, but I'm working on another way to get super-psiops.

Offline Bananas_Akimbo

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2021, 04:35:35 pm »
I like the map on the whole, but maybe it's too big for this particular mission. I could use the original TFTD map instead (either the upper or lower deck), but it would feel a bit illogical to ignore half of the ship. The best solution would be to make a whole smaller ship, but it's not an easy thing to do.
One way to shorten the ship missions without making big changes to the layout, would be to simply erase some of the stairs and/or lifts, thereby restricting access to the different decks a bit more. That way you don't have to split up your team so much and you can advance more aggressively. It would also make the hunt for the last few enemies easier. In fact, the whole mission would become easier, due to fewer nasty surprises happening. Not ideal, but I could live with that.
Also, the map would be slightly less realistic that way, but realism often gets in the way of good level design.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2021, 05:04:14 pm »
Eh, if I was to edit the ship, I'd go the whole way :)

Offline coorta88

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2021, 05:24:12 pm »
@Solarius Scorch

Thanks for reply.

I want to add option for light missles to be installed in heavy missles hardpoints mainly because late in game I´m using Tormentor as main strike craft against battleships, troopships and strikers and I know that I can use combo 2x Avalanche + 1 x gauss cannon but I would like to use something more powerful for my craft. While Stormlance are really good missles, they require elerium to build so I use them sparingly, but pike require only alien alloys which you can easily get from UFO´s (always no matter how devastated from battle it is) or you can manufacture them (which is relatively easy in late game, you have enough money for that) and therefore they would nicely supplement gauss cannon on Tormentor.

About skyscrapper - I´m definitively against removing them, I like concept of assaulting corporate skyscrapper, but would it be at least possible to either remove few floors (5 at least) or force enemy mech placement to be either outside building (to protect enterance) or on first level so that if I kill mechs and enough human enemies that they will surrender without need to comb entire skyscrapper ?

And regarding Osiron ship. yeah, I know that it is definitively not easy (not something I have any skill or talent) to do something like completely new map, but I hope it might be done someday - Osiron deserves to have some uniqe ship for their mission.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2021, 06:05:28 pm »
I want to add option for light missles to be installed in heavy missles hardpoints mainly because late in game I´m using Tormentor as main strike craft against battleships, troopships and strikers and I know that I can use combo 2x Avalanche + 1 x gauss cannon but I would like to use something more powerful for my craft. While Stormlance are really good missles, they require elerium to build so I use them sparingly, but pike require only alien alloys which you can easily get from UFO´s (always no matter how devastated from battle it is) or you can manufacture them (which is relatively easy in late game, you have enough money for that) and therefore they would nicely supplement gauss cannon on Tormentor.

Fair points, but I don't want to make slots too interchangeable. Perhaps a better idea would be just making a new heavy rocket, but I'd appreciate some pointers on what it should be. Something like a heavy Pike? Better damage, less rounds? Though it would be fun to have something brand new.

About skyscrapper - I´m definitively against removing them, I like concept of assaulting corporate skyscrapper, but would it be at least possible to either remove few floors (5 at least) or force enemy mech placement to be either outside building (to protect enterance) or on first level so that if I kill mechs and enough human enemies that they will surrender without need to comb entire skyscrapper ?

Sorry, not gonna do that. I already made them as short as possible without losing the cyberpunk effect. It just wouldn't feel right.

And regarding Osiron ship. yeah, I know that it is definitively not easy (not something I have any skill or talent) to do something like completely new map, but I hope it might be done someday - Osiron deserves to have some uniqe ship for their mission.

Actually I've already spent my lunch break on this... :]
I've only barely started, but I'm going through with this.

Offline coorta88

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2021, 06:46:34 pm »
@Solarius Scorch

As for pike rockets, I think it would be sufficient to have something like "heavy pike" similarly as heavy stormlance or heavy stingray with same abilities but larger magazine.

Only new rocket I can think of would be the one using zrbite warhead but that is too similar to elerium warhead.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2021, 11:38:55 am »
As for pike rockets, I think it would be sufficient to have something like "heavy pike" similarly as heavy stormlance or heavy stingray with same abilities but larger magazine.

Yeah, but it's kinda uninspired, even if the easiest way out.

Only new rocket I can think of would be the one using zrbite warhead but that is too similar to elerium warhead.

Yes, it's precisely why I'm asking - it is difficult to think anything new.

Well, unless we go bonkers. Bio rocket? Dimensional missile? Angry kamikaze Gillmen?

Offline coorta88

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2021, 01:01:56 pm »
Well, there is one thing, which you can add. With level 3 promotion together with ability to produce alien alloys and terramite you should be able to produce modernised version of nuclear tipped missiles (something similar to AIM-26 Falcon, AIM-68 Big Q, AIR-2 Genie) - it would be heavy missile with massive destructive capability (craft would be able to carry only one and with it you should be able to destroy any UFO, if it hit of course, with exception of battleship and troopship) and basic chance to hit about 65%. To produce it you would need terramite + alien alloys.

And of course there should be some problems with council for you using nuclear weapons, even if it is for defence of earth against invaders (simply researching it should get you some negative monthly rating). If it is possible maybe some random event about radiation poisoning affecting civilian population (which will get you about -300 monthly rating from council)
« Last Edit: January 28, 2021, 01:18:57 pm by coorta88 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2021, 03:46:22 pm »
Hmm, sounds like a better Avalanche. I think it's a good idea, although at the time I'm not sure if you'll find targets warranting such a weapon. :P

By the way, I've been working on the smaller Osiron ship. It's still WIP, but the outer shape is done (and it was tricky due to the complex hull shape). See attached :)

Offline Bananas_Akimbo

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2021, 06:11:37 pm »
I didn't expect, that you would be able to build a ship that quickly. Looks pretty good.

If I may suggest improvements to the outer shape: In case this is still supoosed to be some kind of cruise ship, it should definately have a larger superstructure. Especially the dining area should be of sufficient size. Maybe simply get rid of the gap in the middle? Also, a cruise ship would have a lot more windows and bigger ones. I suggest using the larger rectangular windows not just on the bridge, but on the whole ship.

Offline coorta88

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2021, 08:48:59 pm »
Really good job.

As @Bananas_Akimbo it would be for the best (if it is possible) to get rid of the gap in the middle and maybe add swimming pool to deck and helipad as well.

For better effect you could add even small motor boats behind the ship (as I guess X-com agents get to Osiron ship via motor boats).




Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Minor changes
« Reply #14 on: January 29, 2021, 05:06:42 pm »
Thanks for the encouragement, guys.

It is sort of a cruise ship (albeit a smaller one), although I think a cargo ship would be more appropriate. Perhaps in the future.

I haven't overhauled the insides yet; it's functional, but very similar to the original, bigger ship. I'm waiting for some inspiration, and your suggestions are taken seriously. The same goes for possible merging the upper decks.

A swimming pool is a fun idea, but might be too big for a mini cruise ship. Also I would have to add a new tileset for this. To be considered.

Boats - no way, there are no such resources, sorry. And even if I made them, I'm not sure it'd fit in the tile limit.

EDIT: Some progress. Following your suggestions, I merged both cabins and used the nicer windows. The insides are still empty.