Author Topic: [TFTD][game progression] TFTD: Evolution 1.14  (Read 89697 times)

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #60 on: November 05, 2022, 07:32:13 pm »
Simultaneous attack with many barracudas (up to 4) may be fruitful against mid-large USOs (depending on armament).
Gas Cannon: H.Cruiser
AJAX and Gauss Cannon: Hunter
DUP and Sonic Oscillator: Predator
PWT: F.S.Cruiset and Battleship
Anything above requires certain barracuda sacrifices or multiple waves with missile type armament.

I think a typical tactic with vanilla is that you try to recover large or very large ufos only if they land - and start shooting down large ones once you get sonic oscillator (and don't try to team up on very large ones even then) instead of deploying a large number of barracudas to be able to team up against them.

My point is that why would you want to spend 2.4M per month for the rent of 4 barracudas (or even more, if you want to have interception capabilities around the globe) in order to shoot down mid-large UFOs?

That would make sense only at that point of the game where there are plenty of guaranteed UFOs in each month, so that you can be sure that you can get enough funding from selling UFO materials to cover your monthly deficit. For the first 6 months or so, it is possible that you can't recover enough. But at that point, you already have Manta, which essentially makes barracudas obsolete (even more so in this mod than in vanilla).

The balance in this mod makes shooting down even small subs suspect unless you have at least two barracudas. Even two barracudas entails a considerable maintenance cost in the early game, perhaps better spent on scientists to rush manta so that you don't need barracudas at all. This is made even easier in this mod, because you get manta so early in the game (you could get it built in May, or even April).

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #61 on: November 05, 2022, 07:42:03 pm »
Is it intentional that an autopsy of any of the four aliens gives you alien containment, after you also have both cryogenics and cloning. If so, obtaining alien containment and getting sonic isn't so far off after all.

  - name: STR_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT
    listOrder: 4910 # listed after MC-Lab
    cost: 300
    points: 25
    # depends on alien cryogenics and cloning and alien autopsy
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_CRYOGENICS
      - STR_ALIEN_CLONING
      - STR_ALIEN_CONT_DEP

  - name: STR_ALIEN_CONT_DEP
    cost: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_AQUATOID_CORPSE
      - STR_GILLMAN_CORPSE
      - STR_TASOTH_CORPSE
      - STR_LOBSTERMAN_CORPSE
    unlocks:
      - STR_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2022, 05:28:27 pm »
I think a typical tactic with vanilla is that you try to recover large or very large ufos only if they land - and start shooting down large ones once you get sonic oscillator (and don't try to team up on very large ones even then) instead of deploying a large number of barracudas to be able to team up against them.

My point is that why would you want to spend 2.4M per month for the rent of 4 barracudas (or even more, if you want to have interception capabilities around the globe) in order to shoot down mid-large UFOs?

That would make sense only at that point of the game where there are plenty of guaranteed UFOs in each month, so that you can be sure that you can get enough funding from selling UFO materials to cover your monthly deficit. For the first 6 months or so, it is possible that you can't recover enough. But at that point, you already have Manta, which essentially makes barracudas obsolete (even more so in this mod than in vanilla).


Your analysis is correct. However, it feels a little biased toward the strategy you employ. There could be other viable strategies as well.
Just to be clear, you are analyzing this for SH difficulty, right?

I agree that recovering landed USOs is cheaper and more lucrative. There is no change in that from vanilla. However, there is no guarantee they even land and that this happens within your radar range. So shooting them down is an additional source of revenue. Whether this additional revenue worth maintaining some extra barracudas is up to player to decide. Your approach on not intercepting anything beyond two smallest USOs for six months may work - I never tried it.
Also keep in mind that shooting down more USOs gives and indirect benefit: higher score, which equates in funding increase. It also reduces chance for countries to be infiltrated.

With more expensive interception this mod toughens it up a notch to player. Whether it becomes too tough to use at all - I am not sure. I was able to play normally and build bases and buy new interceptors every 1-2 months and didn't experience too much of financial hardship. I sure can rework numbers a little to make it less challenging if you think it is too difficult. However, remember, this is for SH difficulty which should be, well, difficult. Player is supposed to loose if not careful with strategical decisions.

I thought about balancing increased toughness of interception by giving more point for shooting down USO as a reward. This way it reflects on funding better.
Another option, of course, is to reduce rent for barracuda.

Few words about Manta.
It is definitely tougher than barracuda and can take out largest USOs on its own. Does not require rent either. However, it is still may be not advisable to replace all Barracudas with Mantas.
First, it eats Zrbite. If one sends it for each and every small/large USO it will be eating more of it than one can recover. Remember that you need Zrbite for other manufactured items as well.
Second, its repairing rate is same as for Barracuda. Meaning even if it can sustain heavier damage it will require proportionally longer to repair. Max repair time for badly damaged Manta is 400 hours = 16 days. So one still need to build a lot of them to rotate. At very late game this may be possible but not before that. Barracudas will still be useful.

The balance in this mod makes shooting down even small subs suspect unless you have at least two barracudas. Even two barracudas entails a considerable maintenance cost in the early game, perhaps better spent on scientists to rush manta so that you don't need barracudas at all. This is made even easier in this mod, because you get manta so early in the game (you could get it built in May, or even April).

This is not entirely correct. Have you seen my analysis tables for how many barracudas are needed to shoot down which USO?
One barracuda with Gas Cannon can shoot down Escort.
Armed with AJAX it is up to Cruiser.
And armed with DUP it is up to H.Cruiser.

So it is pretty much sufficient to fight them at early game.
Again, as I said, these are my calculations. If you feel like it is still too tough in the game - let me know and I dial down settings a bit.

« Last Edit: November 06, 2022, 05:36:39 pm by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2022, 05:40:14 pm »
Is it intentional that an autopsy of any of the four aliens gives you alien containment, after you also have both cryogenics and cloning. If so, obtaining alien containment and getting sonic isn't so far off after all.

  - name: STR_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT
    listOrder: 4910 # listed after MC-Lab
    cost: 300
    points: 25
    # depends on alien cryogenics and cloning and alien autopsy
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_CRYOGENICS
      - STR_ALIEN_CLONING
      - STR_ALIEN_CONT_DEP

  - name: STR_ALIEN_CONT_DEP
    cost: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_AQUATOID_CORPSE
      - STR_GILLMAN_CORPSE
      - STR_TASOTH_CORPSE
      - STR_LOBSTERMAN_CORPSE
    unlocks:
      - STR_ALIEN_CONTAINMENT

Yes. It is intentional. The whole research tree is actually inherited from base mod: TFTD Rework.
The idea is that alien containment should not be very difficult to research but should not be given for free either.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2022, 05:48:52 pm »
Quick changes.

Cut purchased crafts rent in half.
Increased scores for shut down USOs.

Reuploaded as 1.12.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #65 on: November 13, 2022, 08:02:20 pm »
I played until August (already leviathan, sonic displacer, etc., but no MC lab), so a few comments esp. wrt. the balance:
 - I like the balance in economy (sell prices cut in half, or even more compared to vanilla). The game economy works much better this way, i.e. you don't get too much money so easily (either by selling alien stuff, or manufacturing items)
 - Decreasing the price of craft rents is likely a good idea (because you need far more of them than in vanilla, and also likely need to purchase more when they are shot down), especially in the first 6 months or so when money is a critical asset (you'll also need to expand your coverage, hire scientists, etc.).
 - Some aliens are very tough and I keep wondering if this is really intentional. In particular, in vanilla xarquids had a very low under armor (making them essentially vulnerable to HE), now they have 50. It seems very difficult to kill them and/or you'll face severe losses (because they have very good reactions and deadly sonic weapon). This is exacerbated because:
 - M.C. Lab requires alien implants. So you can't do MC screening on your aquanauts without first acquiring that. AFAIK you can only get alien implants from colonies, artifact sites or very large ships. This poses a significant challenge, as you'll have to manage one such mission with MC-vulnerable aquanauts. Colonies are a no go. Artifact sites start at month 6 (50 % chance), and then it might be a doable, but already in month 7 you might get cephalids, and you would be screwed in a major way (I certainly was). In vanilla, gillmen very large ship would be doable, but now xarquids would slaughter your crew. Aquatoid is likely very difficult without MC screening. I suppose you could wish for tasoth or lobstermen. But nonetheless, I wonder if getting MC lab is made excessively difficult and dependent on RNG. I would certainly be interested in hearing how the others dealt with this.
 - Sonic weapons seem to be next to useless due to their very low accuracy. I didn't see a point in switching from gauss rifle and heavy gauss. I wonder if they have been nerfed too much.  The main reason to research sonic is getting sonic oscillator and sonic displacer (though it is also significantly nerfed now, because the weapon requires more TUs). But I suppose I didn't play enough at that point to figure out if the balance was good.

I was already getting a bit bored with the lack of much progress for months (going after those tasoth and lobster missions is tedious because they take so many hits for further away, and meleeing them is rather risky - with medium+ lobsterman missions usually at least 1-2 people get killed or wounded). I had no MC lab yet, so most aquanauts would get trashed anyway after the screening, so there would be little use in training them to be exceptionally good. I lost the rest of my motivation for now by the cephalid/aquatoid artifact site mission. But I will likelyl try again at some point.

EDIT: now that I think about it, the only sensible way "in paper" to deal with xarquids would seem to be with thermal shok launchers.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2022, 08:11:27 pm by psavola »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #66 on: November 14, 2022, 02:40:40 am »
Thank you psavola.
Very good an well thought feedback.

Before I go to details, let me reiterate that this mod balance things here and there. However, a lot of changes come from "TFTD Rework" parent mode. I agree with them in general but I am completely fine tapping into it and modifying all parameters as needed based on feedbacks like yours.

I understand your are playing on SH difficulty? If so then keep in mind that this supposed to be hard enough that players would never desire to try anything even more harder. It should definitely be unforgiving in every single aspect. Probably should require a lot of grinding and micromanagement too. The fact that vanilla SH is a cakewalk should have nothing to do with modifications as they usually try to restore normal difficulty level progression.
I agree that making impassable games is no fun either but we should be careful to not ease up toughest difficulty too much so it loose the meaning.

- I like the balance in economy (sell prices cut in half, or even more compared to vanilla). The game economy works much better this way, i.e. you don't get too much money so easily (either by selling alien stuff, or manufacturing items)

Initial idea from parent mod. All alien stuff selling price is cut in half.

- Decreasing the price of craft rents is likely a good idea (because you need far more of them than in vanilla, and also likely need to purchase more when they are shot down), especially in the first 6 months or so when money is a critical asset (you'll also need to expand your coverage, hire scientists, etc.).

I played with halved interceptor rent and I feel like it is a right spot. Indeed, one need a large fleet of them. It is only natural to halve costs to match halved revenue from selling alien stuff.

I also loose interceptors and bases occasionally. That makes it fun as I need to either protect them or risk rebuilding. Same goes for sacrificing interceptors for yummy big USO.

- Some aliens are very tough and I keep wondering if this is really intentional. In particular, in vanilla xarquids had a very low under armor (making them essentially vulnerable to HE), now they have 50. It seems very difficult to kill them and/or you'll face severe losses (because they have very good reactions and deadly sonic weapon).

I found Xarquid to be extremely tough too. It seems to be an ultimate challenge of early-mid game. Yes, this is intentional but not by me. This is inherited from parent mod. I should say this parent mod makes enemies somewhat tougher. Not to nightmare level but noticeably. I generally agree with this approach as superhuman difficulty should be like that. Giving them no under armor in vanilla makes them falling like flies against rocket/grenades which is, obviously, not match to their place in alien hierarchy.

Personally I found them beatable even with gauss rifles and vibroblades with the right tactics. If you noticed, their under armor is raised to 50 but their face armor is lowered. This is their soft spot. Use smoke and movement sensor to spot them without revealing yourself and shoot them from distance. Other option would be to sneak up on them using cover and poke them with the knife.
I found it takes about 2-3 vibroblade hits, 2-4 heavy gauss hits, 4-6 gauss rifle hits. This is serious grinding I agree but not impassable. I actually enjoy this smoke and maneuvering play. Without it all missions would reduce to "run forward and kill everybody in sight" boring stuff repeated 100 times.
Keep in mind that player always can backup from mission if it feels too difficult for current gear level. That is intended to make sure users are not raiding landed larger USO with basic crew at the beginning of the game.
I would say one needs to develop plastic armor + heavy gauss to face serious menace like Xarquids, Bio-drones, Reapers, etc.

- M.C. Lab requires alien implants. So you can't do MC screening on your aquanauts without first acquiring that. AFAIK you can only get alien implants from colonies, artifact sites or very large ships. This poses a significant challenge, as you'll have to manage one such mission with MC-vulnerable aquanauts. Colonies are a no go. Artifact sites start at month 6 (50 % chance), and then it might be a doable, but already in month 7 you might get cephalids, and you would be screwed in a major way (I certainly was). In vanilla, gillmen very large ship would be doable, but now xarquids would slaughter your crew. Aquatoid is likely very difficult without MC screening. I suppose you could wish for tasoth or lobstermen. But nonetheless, I wonder if getting MC lab is made excessively difficult and dependent on RNG. I would certainly be interested in hearing how the others dealt with this.

That is the question to research tree. Generally, I feel it quite all right. Especially, the fact that alien tech is discovered by researching aliens. However, I agree M.C. Lab could be available for research a little bit earlier. Feel free to propose tech tree change for that.

- Sonic weapons seem to be next to useless due to their very low accuracy. I didn't see a point in switching from gauss rifle and heavy gauss. I wonder if they have been nerfed too much.  The main reason to research sonic is getting sonic oscillator and sonic displacer (though it is also significantly nerfed now, because the weapon requires more TUs). But I suppose I didn't play enough at that point to figure out if the balance was good.

I tried to interleave their characteristics so that they all have certain value at least at some game stage. That is why gauss may feel better under some conditions. It could be too much - I am not sure. It is easy to return sonic weapons their vanilla glory but then player would just discard gauss stuff immediately as we did in vanilla.

Generally, sonic series are lighter and more damaging but slower and less accurate.
Gauss auto fire option works exceptionally well against weaker aliens when kill is guaranteed. Useless against tougher enemies not killable in a single round of auto fire. Sonic for range and melee for close becomes better combo against tougher enemies.

Roughly they have these effectiveness niches (let me know if you don't feel this)
  • Gauss pistol is light and extremely fast. Very effective against Aquatoids and lower Gillmen. Good for early USO recovery.
  • Gauss rifle is heavier and relatively fast. Effective against Gillmen/terrorists and lower Tasoths. Good for early USO recovery and terror sites.
  • Heavy gauss is heaviest pig of them all. Effective against Tasoths and lower Lobstermen. Can be used in ship missions and artifact sites.
  • Sonic pistol has about same damage ratio as gauss rifle but light as a feather. Very easy to carry vibroblade and all kind of explosives with it.
  • Sonic rifle has about same damage ratio as heavy gauss but much lighter.
  • Sonic cannon has best penetration and effective against all Lobstermen.

I was already getting a bit bored with the lack of much progress for months (going after those tasoth and lobster missions is tedious because they take so many hits for further away, and meleeing them is rather risky - with medium+ lobsterman missions usually at least 1-2 people get killed or wounded). I had no MC lab yet, so most aquanauts would get trashed anyway after the screening, so there would be little use in training them to be exceptionally good. I lost the rest of my motivation for now by the cephalid/aquatoid artifact site mission. But I will likelyl try again at some point.

Again, I am all for allowing M.C. Lab earlier. However, as I noticed in my games, I do not get seriously delayed in getting this tech. Meaning, I don't have enough scientists to get to it (much) quicker anyway. I.e. even if I would not need larger USO parts for it I would not research it earlier than fourth month or something, anyway. There are other, more important research out there.

EDIT: now that I think about it, the only sensible way "in paper" to deal with xarquids would seem to be with thermal shok launchers.

I doubt so. Stun works the same way as weapon (armor and health). So it could be even worse in effectiveness.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2022, 02:43:16 am by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #67 on: November 14, 2022, 02:48:08 am »
Summarizing the above, I feel like this version is much more playable than vanilla, for example. Sure, there could be some additional improvements here and there and we can work on this together.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #68 on: November 14, 2022, 03:56:06 am »
Also keep in mind that sonic weapon parameters apply to both soldiers and aliens. Making it slower and less precise reduces number of player soldiers instant kills. It makes combat more variative and actually slightly more forgiving for player.

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #69 on: November 14, 2022, 03:59:24 am »
Check this one for the list of all parent changes.
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,4265.0.html

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #70 on: November 14, 2022, 07:00:43 pm »
Yes, I have been playing with ironman superhuman. Difficulty is not a problem, if the intention is to make the game significantly harder on the same difficulty compared to vanilla. (Wrt. difficulty and economics, this mod is somewhat comparable to the UFO hardmode expansion so far, but I suppose after the mid game it gets relatively easier).

Wrt. MC Lab, now that I'm looking at it, the research tree appears to be buggy:

  - name: STR_MC_LAB
    # depends on Alien Containment and either alien learning arrays or implanter

So according to the ruleset comment, it shouldn't require both but rather either of those. Learning arrays is very easy to get, so no problem. So, I suppose that in the following ruleset:

  - name: STR_MC_LAB_DEP
    cost: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_LEARNING_ARRAYS
      - STR_ALIEN_IMPLANTER

it's likely missing the following (should this make it either/or, rather than "and"):

    unlocks:
      - STR_MC_LAB

My idea of using thermal shok launchers against xarquids is that area effects hit 2x2 units four times. So, a thermal shok launcher blast actually hits it four times and should be quite stunning (if the armor don't block the stun effects completely, I doubt it). The idea of using melee and dye grenades against xarquids sounds extremely risky, because they float and they almost exclusively are encountered outside the sub. I also assume you're using non-default explosion height (with vanilla value 0 dye grenades don't really help against them, because dye doesn't protect against a vision from a xarquid floating higher than you).

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #71 on: November 15, 2022, 12:45:22 am »
Yes, I have been playing with ironman superhuman. Difficulty is not a problem, if the intention is to make the game significantly harder on the same difficulty compared to vanilla. (Wrt. difficulty and economics, this mod is somewhat comparable to the UFO hardmode expansion so far, but I suppose after the mid game it gets relatively easier).

Difficulty levels adjustment is a discussion related to all modifications, not only this mod specifically. Are you saying game is impassable even on easiest difficulty? If it is passable then there should be some difficulty level in between comfortable to you.
This is not the vanilla where playing on SH exclusively was the pride and signature of seasoned player.

Even then the difficulty is not the primary purpose of this modification. It is the increase in variability and feature richness. Making all items and feature work and be needful to win the game. Like in vanilla one can discard gauss weapons entirely and still win the game. In this mod it is the important transition stage, etc.
Therefore, it obviously, require more management and decision making. Which, indirectly, increases the complexity and difficulty.

Wrt. MC Lab, now that I'm looking at it, the research tree appears to be buggy:

  - name: STR_MC_LAB
    # depends on Alien Containment and either alien learning arrays or implanter

So according to the ruleset comment, it shouldn't require both but rather either of those. Learning arrays is very easy to get, so no problem. So, I suppose that in the following ruleset:

  - name: STR_MC_LAB_DEP
    cost: 0
    dependencies:
      - STR_ALIEN_LEARNING_ARRAYS
      - STR_ALIEN_IMPLANTER

it's likely missing the following (should this make it either/or, rather than "and"):

    unlocks:
      - STR_MC_LAB

You are right about missing "either" part. The "unlocks" should be added to the learning arrays and implanter to unlock M.C. Lab dependency as below. In your example it unlocks the M.C. Lab directly bypassing its other requirement: alien containment.
I modified it locally like that (have not tested yet!!!). Feel free to do the same until I release it.
Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_ALIEN_LEARNING_ARRAYS
    cost: 150
    points: 30
    needItem: true
    # unlocks M.C. Lab dependency
    unlocks:
      - STR_MC_LAB_DEP
  - name: STR_ALIEN_IMPLANTER
    cost: 150
    points: 30
    needItem: true
    # unlocks M.C. Lab dependency
    unlocks:
      - STR_MC_LAB_DEP

So, a thermal shok launcher blast actually hits it four times.

Are you sure about that? That would be quite a way.
The first question pops up in my head is - why explosives do not work the same way and hit all for tiles of large alien?

The idea of using melee and dye grenades against xarquids sounds extremely risky, because they float and they almost exclusively are encountered outside the sub.

It is risky. I put it there as an option only if you manage to use some cover.

I also assume you're using non-default explosion height (with vanilla value 0 dye grenades don't really help against them, because dye doesn't protect against a vision from a xarquid floating higher than you).

That is correct. I think I use +2 smoke height. Even then one should tread carefully in the smoke.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #72 on: November 15, 2022, 08:03:51 am »
Are you sure about that? That would be quite a way.
The first question pops up in my head is - why explosives do not work the same way and hit all for tiles of large alien?

I'm quite sure.  If you hit CTRL-H after a hit in OXCE, you'll see if you affect any damage, small damage or large amounts of damage (0, hit, HIT). For the large units this reports four "hits".

This is also a reason why explosives are usually very useful against large units. The exception is when their armor is so heavy that none of the explosions cause any damage (as is essentially now the case with xarquids and for example magna-blast grenades). Indeed, has traditionally been the main way to kill triscenes, and with this mod as well I think I used explosives only.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 10:09:11 am by psavola »

Offline Alpha Centauri Bear

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #73 on: November 16, 2022, 12:47:38 am »
Based on your feedback I think to differentiate hand weapons even stronger. Otherwise, it would be pretty difficult to give six of them different meaning. Here are my thoughts.

Gauss pistol
- light
- no aimed shot
- weak (similar to jet harpoon power)
- very fast
- slightly better auto accuracy
SMG with weak penetration ability for shoot on the run. Also could be kept on belt to compensate for other slow weapons to be able to quickly grab and burst shoot at surprise close encounter.
Should be very good against aquatoids and gillmen in close combat. Even though it may require few shots sometimes but it should be able to produce multitude of them.

Gauss rifle
- medium weight
- all shot modes available
- average power
- average speed
- slightly better snap accuracy
Regular assault weapon with average range.
Good against gillmen and tasoths and most lower terrorists, except xarquids.

Heavy gauss
- heavy like a pig
- no auto
- powerful
- slow
- slightly better aimed accuracy
Semi stationary heavy gun installation. Capable to deliver powerful damage across long range. Although, may require a turn to set up in position.
Good against toughest aliens and terrorists. Can scratch triscene in the back (requires multiple shots, though). Especially, because it can take them out from relative safety of long distance when multiple hits are required.

This way player may mix and match different weapons for the purpose of the mission. And even carry pistol as sidearm on belt as mentioned above.
Heavy gauss would probably be an overkill against gillmen and would slow down the advancement. So it may make sense to mix heavy and medium/light weaponry at such missions.
Another aspect is that only strong soldiers can carry heavy equipment and even then they should avoid loading grenades, sensors, and other miscellaneous stuff. Which makes sense, actually, for them to lay down and play sniper role.

Sonic weapon may have about same specialization within series but they should generally keep this differentiation from gauss:
* slightly lighter
* noticeably more powerful
* slightly slower
* slightly less accurate
* no auto

Sonic pistol should be capable to kill tasoth with 4-6 shots. Sonic cannon should kill lobsterman with 2-3 shots.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2022, 12:50:43 am by Alpha Centauri Bear »

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD][Weapons and armaments] TFTD Rework: Evolution v1.12
« Reply #74 on: November 16, 2022, 10:18:41 am »
I suppose the main question is if you want to try to keep gauss pistol and possibly sonic pistol viable alternatives at the point you already have access to gauss rifle or other weapons. I liked gauss pistol when I had it because it was reasonably accurate and very TU-efficient. But gauss rifle had more power and at that point the enemies were starting to become tougher. So I couldn't really justify keeping pistol around, rather keep rifle as a basic weapon. IIRC pistol could be used one-handed without penalty (in contrast to rifle), but it is easy to drop an item from your off-hand if you have something there. I'd guess the only way to make gauss pistol a viable consideration in the long term would be to make it have sufficient damage, but then it might end up competing too much with the rifle. Tough choices.

There are already quite a few differences between heavy gauss and gauss rifle, so you'll certainly use both. It's OK to make the differences bigger but they are already there. The main consideration is the tradeoffs between gauss and sonic variants.