[Rejected] Bigger xcom bases

[MasterBLB]

Rejection reason: after long discussions, it was decided that this is an unwanted feature (not even as optional feature!)


Hey guys,

As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?

[Meridian]

Possible yes.
Planned no.

[skyhawk]

Hey guys,

As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?

Are you referring to second floor as in a second mission, or [I think this is what you're referring to] having stories 3 and 4 in the Battlescape?

The base defense mission and base facilities in TFTD are 4-level. You might want to examine the rulesets for TFTD to see how that's done.

I expect you might need to create 4-level variants of all the vanilla EU bases though, which might be a non-trivial endeavor.

[MasterBLB]

I mean whole new floor below to build facilities. Well, that in fact also means multilevel base during base defense missions too.

[Nord]

Unlimited quantity of bases will be easier.

[Rubber Cannonball]

As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?

and

I mean whole new floor below to build facilities. Well, that in fact also means multilevel base during base defense missions too.

Ok if I understand correctly, you want to be able to build new facilities above or below an existing facility.  Currently facilities occupy the whole vertical column where they are placed even if some levels are just dirt.  It currently isn't possible to build another facility above or below an existing facility.  Some facilities can be "upgraded" by constructing a new facility in an existing facility's spot, but AFAIK, the existing facility's services are unavailable while construction is ongoing.  Also when complete the new facility won't necessarily provide any of the old facility's functions.  However, it is definately possible to mod in new combo facilities which would provide the services of several facilities.  You could even borrow some of the layouts of existing facilities and stack them how you want.  It is a fair amount of modding work and beyond what I currently know how to do.

As for base defense, multiple levels are fully supported in the battlescape.  While vanilla uses 2 levels, the X-Piratez mod uses 5 levels.

[Bobit]

It would be easy to implement using an engine modification. But it seems almost mechanically identical to just having more bases, just a thematic difference.

[Rubber Cannonball]

But it seems almost mechanically identical to just having more bases, just a thematic difference.

In vanilla it is possible (not necessarily desirable) to make 8 identical bases and fit everything in.  But some mods have so many more facility choices, use larger facilities 2x2 or even 3x3, and have dependencies between facilities that makes cookie cutter bases impossible.  I suspect the OP might be motivated by the frustration of needing to add one more facility because of a dependency to an already full base.

[Ethereal]

Unlimited quantity of bases will be easier.

Not only easier, but also highly desirable.

[wcho035]

If you have 1x1 Hangers, it will free up more space for facilities. However, no one wants to back the demands for it. Now, why multi-level bases? It doesn’t make sense, does it?

[Meridian]

Not only easier, but also highly desirable.

Most of the modders I have talked with say it's highly undesirable.

Base real estate is one of the last remaining, if not THE last remaining, limited resource in the engine. It's definitely considered a feature, not a flaw.
In fact, every single xcom and xcom-like game so far had limited base space (or equivalent)... each and every one of them could have decided to make it unlimited... but each and every one one them decided NOT to make it unlimited. For a reason.

If I made it unlimited, I would take a very important tool away from the modders. And I just can't do that to them, can I.

Instead of exponentially growing everything, and playing xcom like slot machines... limited base space enables much deeper strategic decision making and promotes using a brain instead of mindlessly clicking the up-arrow button.

That said, if you want unlimited exponential growth, you can still do that, already today. We have added several features (like facility upgrades, etc.) which enable you to scale indefinitely. There's nothing stopping you from making radar covering entire globe, hangars holding dozens of craft at once, barracks holding thousands of troops, labs/shops for a million scientists if you want... and if you still think you don't have enough space, then create a bloody uber-facility, which provides all imaginable services and a million of each storage type. Job done, all your megalomaniac desires satisfied.

[Rubber Cannonball]

If you have 1x1 Hangers, it will free up more space for facilities. However, no one wants to back the demands for it. Now, why multi-level bases? It doesn’t make sense, does it?

Even if everything is 1x1, a base is still limited to 36 facilities.  Going to 7x7 or higher bases is one way to increase facility limit but it spreads things out even more.  Going to 6x6x2 doubles facility capacity while keeping the base more compact.

How desirable this would be is of course debatable.  From a mod game perspective it might be more desirable to have later tier facilities be more efficient by providing the services of several early tier facilities.  For instance, a mod might combine hyperwave decoder, mind shield, and grav shield into a final tier hyper shield facility.

Ninja'd by Meridian's better answer.

[wcho035]

Personally, I like the idea, but to make it happen is another story.

I do agree with Meridian, with boosted capabilities added to current Facilities, like fattening the amount of storage space a storage facilities has, I am able to limit the number of store rooms a base needed.

However, if you want multilevel bases, perhaps you should start with the basics.  1x1 hangers. This free up rooms in a base, for more facilities. Instead of adding multilevel stacking, we should start with something small first. With 1x1 hangers, we can generate more  base space possible with the current feature we have. Perhaps we might not need multi-level stacking.

So, we need start with something basic first, before we shoot for more. If you don't back the 1x1 hangers, what's the point of multi-level base stacking?

[Rubber Cannonball]

So, we need start with something basic first, before we shoot for more. If you don't back the 1x1 hangers, what's the point of multi-level base stacking?

While it may be more basic it also seems more special case.  A hanger is just one facility type.  If one can already put 4 craft in a hanger (via mod) and can increase the capacity of living quarters, storage, workshops, labs, and so on, what other benefit to the modder does the 1x1 hanger provide over the 2x2 hanger?  What if next month someone wants a 2x1 hanger or 4x4 hanger?

Multiple levels doesn't have to be about increasing capacity.  Consider a base limited in size to 3x3x4 where 4 is the number of levels.  It's still 36 facility spots.  Or consider a mod that uses xcom air craft carriers as floating mobile bases.  It would make sense to have different facilities on the various decks instead of a 6x6 square carrier.

I think there was a suggestion some time ago about having random non-buildable locations in the base layout occupied by solid rock or something.  A 5x4x2 base with 4 rock spaces would still provide 36 facility spots, assuming a corner wasn't blocked off by unlucky rock locations.

I'm merely discussing the idea.  I don't expect it to happen unless a modder presents a convincing use case for it some time in the future.

[Ethereal]

Meridian, in general, everything is correct, but no one asks to do unlimited by default. Let it be, but with the option in which each modder will decide how many bases will be in his mod - exactly, more or less than eight.

And it would have opened up a lot of opportunities - opening slots for bases as a result of research, the number of bases depending on the level of difficulty, modifications for playing with one base, opening slots for bases depending on the time of the game. And at the same time, for lovers of the classics, there are 8 by default.