OpenXcom Forum
Modding => OXCE Suggestions NEW => OpenXcom Extended => OXCE Suggestions Rejected => Topic started by: MasterBLB on February 02, 2020, 07:52:21 pm
-
Rejection reason: after long discussions, it was decided that this is an unwanted feature (not even as optional feature!)
Hey guys,
As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?
-
Possible yes.
Planned no.
-
Hey guys,
As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?
Are you referring to second floor as in a second mission, or [I think this is what you're referring to] having stories 3 and 4 in the Battlescape?
The base defense mission and base facilities in TFTD are 4-level. You might want to examine the rulesets for TFTD to see how that's done.
I expect you might need to create 4-level variants of all the vanilla EU bases though, which might be a non-trivial endeavor.
-
I mean whole new floor below to build facilities. Well, that in fact also means multilevel base during base defense missions too.
-
Unlimited quantity of bases will be easier.
-
As in topic - because the mod contains many new facilities it'd be useful to have at least 2nd floor at basescape to disposal. Would it be possible to add?
and
I mean whole new floor below to build facilities. Well, that in fact also means multilevel base during base defense missions too.
Ok if I understand correctly, you want to be able to build new facilities above or below an existing facility. Currently facilities occupy the whole vertical column where they are placed even if some levels are just dirt. It currently isn't possible to build another facility above or below an existing facility. Some facilities can be "upgraded" by constructing a new facility in an existing facility's spot, but AFAIK, the existing facility's services are unavailable while construction is ongoing. Also when complete the new facility won't necessarily provide any of the old facility's functions. However, it is definately possible to mod in new combo facilities which would provide the services of several facilities. You could even borrow some of the layouts of existing facilities and stack them how you want. It is a fair amount of modding work and beyond what I currently know how to do.
As for base defense, multiple levels are fully supported in the battlescape. While vanilla uses 2 levels, the X-Piratez mod uses 5 levels.
-
It would be easy to implement using an engine modification. But it seems almost mechanically identical to just having more bases, just a thematic difference.
-
But it seems almost mechanically identical to just having more bases, just a thematic difference.
In vanilla it is possible (not necessarily desirable) to make 8 identical bases and fit everything in. But some mods have so many more facility choices, use larger facilities 2x2 or even 3x3, and have dependencies between facilities that makes cookie cutter bases impossible. I suspect the OP might be motivated by the frustration of needing to add one more facility because of a dependency to an already full base.
-
Unlimited quantity of bases will be easier.
Not only easier, but also highly desirable.
-
If you have 1x1 Hangers, it will free up more space for facilities. However, no one wants to back the demands for it. Now, why multi-level bases? It doesn’t make sense, does it?
-
Not only easier, but also highly desirable.
Most of the modders I have talked with say it's highly undesirable.
Base real estate is one of the last remaining, if not THE last remaining, limited resource in the engine. It's definitely considered a feature, not a flaw.
In fact, every single xcom and xcom-like game so far had limited base space (or equivalent)... each and every one of them could have decided to make it unlimited... but each and every one one them decided NOT to make it unlimited. For a reason.
If I made it unlimited, I would take a very important tool away from the modders. And I just can't do that to them, can I.
Instead of exponentially growing everything, and playing xcom like slot machines... limited base space enables much deeper strategic decision making and promotes using a brain instead of mindlessly clicking the up-arrow button.
That said, if you want unlimited exponential growth, you can still do that, already today. We have added several features (like facility upgrades, etc.) which enable you to scale indefinitely. There's nothing stopping you from making radar covering entire globe, hangars holding dozens of craft at once, barracks holding thousands of troops, labs/shops for a million scientists if you want... and if you still think you don't have enough space, then create a bloody uber-facility, which provides all imaginable services and a million of each storage type. Job done, all your megalomaniac desires satisfied.
-
If you have 1x1 Hangers, it will free up more space for facilities. However, no one wants to back the demands for it. Now, why multi-level bases? It doesn’t make sense, does it?
Even if everything is 1x1, a base is still limited to 36 facilities. Going to 7x7 or higher bases is one way to increase facility limit but it spreads things out even more. Going to 6x6x2 doubles facility capacity while keeping the base more compact.
How desirable this would be is of course debatable. From a mod game perspective it might be more desirable to have later tier facilities be more efficient by providing the services of several early tier facilities. For instance, a mod might combine hyperwave decoder, mind shield, and grav shield into a final tier hyper shield facility.
Ninja'd by Meridian's better answer.
-
Personally, I like the idea, but to make it happen is another story.
I do agree with Meridian, with boosted capabilities added to current Facilities, like fattening the amount of storage space a storage facilities has, I am able to limit the number of store rooms a base needed.
However, if you want multilevel bases, perhaps you should start with the basics. 1x1 hangers. This free up rooms in a base, for more facilities. Instead of adding multilevel stacking, we should start with something small first. With 1x1 hangers, we can generate more base space possible with the current feature we have. Perhaps we might not need multi-level stacking.
So, we need start with something basic first, before we shoot for more. If you don't back the 1x1 hangers, what's the point of multi-level base stacking?
-
So, we need start with something basic first, before we shoot for more. If you don't back the 1x1 hangers, what's the point of multi-level base stacking?
While it may be more basic it also seems more special case. A hanger is just one facility type. If one can already put 4 craft in a hanger (via mod) and can increase the capacity of living quarters, storage, workshops, labs, and so on, what other benefit to the modder does the 1x1 hanger provide over the 2x2 hanger? What if next month someone wants a 2x1 hanger or 4x4 hanger?
Multiple levels doesn't have to be about increasing capacity. Consider a base limited in size to 3x3x4 where 4 is the number of levels. It's still 36 facility spots. Or consider a mod that uses xcom air craft carriers as floating mobile bases. It would make sense to have different facilities on the various decks instead of a 6x6 square carrier.
I think there was a suggestion some time ago about having random non-buildable locations in the base layout occupied by solid rock or something. A 5x4x2 base with 4 rock spaces would still provide 36 facility spots, assuming a corner wasn't blocked off by unlucky rock locations.
I'm merely discussing the idea. I don't expect it to happen unless a modder presents a convincing use case for it some time in the future.
-
Meridian, in general, everything is correct, but no one asks to do unlimited by default. Let it be, but with the option in which each modder will decide how many bases will be in his mod - exactly, more or less than eight.
And it would have opened up a lot of opportunities - opening slots for bases as a result of research, the number of bases depending on the level of difficulty, modifications for playing with one base, opening slots for bases depending on the time of the game. And at the same time, for lovers of the classics, there are 8 by default.
-
Just some links from past threads related to this topic for those that might be interested.
unlimited bases https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2558.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,2558.0.html)
sizes other than 6x6 https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1636.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,1636.0.html)
2 layer w/surface https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3609.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3609.0.html)
multilayer mobile https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2859.0.html (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php?topic=2859.0.html)
-
Dear mates, maybe I should explain why such question raised.
I play The World of Terrifying Silence mod for Terror from the Deep, written by Nord. It is great, however compared to vanila TFTD has features:
- labs accommodate only 25 scientists instead of 50. So to get usual number of scientists(100) total four facilities are required instead of two.
- all alien stuff like implanters, cloning, learning arrays, bah corpses even, whose in vanila was sold immediately freeing store space in the mod have some important usage as ingredient for something, so it should be kept for later use - and keeping them requires storage space. MUCH of storage space.
- I've read on forum about aliens can bombard bases, so point defense systems + repellent shield also seems to become mandatory.
- there are also plenty of new facilities, some of them are mandatory to progress research like Bionic Laboratory, or really nice to have like Naval Control Center. Sadly, due to increased usage of available space for stores they simply can't be afforded, in main base at least.
- also, you've taken away possibility to freely move facilities around the grid some time ago, or at least made the feature hidden.
All the above causes that vanila basescape grid 6x6, perfect for vanila Ufo:Enemy Unknown and Terror from the Deep 20 years ago becomes too small nowadays - so some way to accommodate that new stuff/required increased quantities of old one, be it 2nd basescape floor or bigger grid, should be provided. More than 8 bases are nice, however the issue is too few space in single base.
I have learned in this thread some facilities now can be build over to get increased space, and sure I can use .rul files to say create storage spaces with 10k capacity, but that's not the point. The point is to have base mechanics fit to game contents, and currently that balance has been a bit off.
So 2nd basescape floor solves that perfectly, and also fit to theme - alien bases have multiple floors, so can we. This also can create another strategic planning layer as now some facilities may be set as available to build only on specific floor.
-
This is kinda ugly, but you could make all 'vanilla' base structures only 2 floors high, and have a higher-tier or upgrade structure that is then 4 floors high, with double the labs, storage, whatever.
If the Defense Battlescape is not limited to 4 levels, you could go even higher!
-
All the above causes that vanila basescape grid 6x6, perfect for vanila Ufo:Enemy Unknown and Terror from the Deep 20 years ago becomes too small nowadays - so some way to accommodate that new stuff/required increased quantities of old one, be it 2nd basescape floor or bigger grid, should be provided.
No... this is not a reason for adding more base space.
I don't know what Nord intended, but it can be only one of the two options:
1/ Nord didn't want you to be able to recruit so many people and to hold so much stuff... that's why he decreased the living quarters capacity in the first place. In this case, there is no bug in the engine and no bug in the mod... all works as intended.
2/ Nord is OK with recruiting many people and storing a lot of stuff... in which case he should either increase (not decrease) living quarters capacity; or provide living quarters upgrades. If this is not possible, then it is a bug/balancing issue in the mod, but still no engine limitation.
I personally think Nord wanted option 1/ ... but I can be wrong... in either case, definitely a mod thing, not an engine thing.
PS: Btw. I played TWoTS quite recently myself (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLe0K-GUDQkNLczQ0axbqrpXuDuUYFRYOn)... and I had no problems whatsoever with living quarters/lab/workshop capacity, storage space or base size. Unless something changed dramatically recently, I'd say everything works as intended. Excellent mod!
-
Well, in fact I've found TWoTS via the videos you've linked, and I'm watching them (though slowly to not spoil fun for myself). At the beginning (up to episode 28 so far) you were selling all ion beam accelerators, implanters, weapons and clips, and all other alien stuff - so it's not surprising you haven't run out of storage space.
Well, speaking about your vids, in some episode you've remodeled whole base, moving facilities of same type near each other - how did you do that?
Assuming newest patch 2,37 for TWoTS (https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,5566.msg122918.html#msg122918) I think Nord rather wishes option 2 - but we divert a bit the main question, which is if adding 2nd floor to basescape is possible, and how hard would it to be.
Look at 2nd floor for bases Meridian as an opportunity for:
- new research project, at the beginning bases could have only top floor, to be able to build next one some research would have to be made.
- with doubling single base space there would not be much need to have unlimited number of bases.
- modders could invent plenty of new, cool facilities.
- base defense mission, the part to fight and shoot at atttacking ufo could be extended.
- if you'll figure out a way to add another floor, then future, possible extension to add 3rd and next ones would be already an open road.
-
I personally think Nord wanted option 1/ ... but I can be wrong... in either case, definitely a mod thing, not an engine thing.
I think that players can decide. Balancing is a hardest part of modmaking.
Yes, this is the first report of "not enough space". And yes, before no one "had problems whatsoever with living quarters/lab/workshop capacity". :)
-
Well @Meridian looks like you've come across storage issues (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81I_-eMSSQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2518) too. You felt lack of storage space in earlier episodes, but this is the 1st one you mention about necessity of dedicated storage base.
Maybe the idea to give another floor for bases is not that bad as you think.
-
Well @Meridian looks like you've come across storage issues (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A81I_-eMSSQ&feature=youtu.be&t=2518) too. You felt lack of storage space in earlier episodes, but this is the 1st one you mention about necessity of dedicated storage base.
Maybe the idea to give another floor for bases is not that bad as you think.
Excuse me? What "issue"?
From a quick look at the bases in the linked video, I have about 60% of total base space still empty... there is ABSOLUTELY no lack of base space here.
I can still build so many storage facilities that children of my children will not be able to fill them up...
And if you fast-forward to the end of the LP, you will see that the last 3 bases are still practically empty... there's SO MUCH base space I couldn't even think of anything else to build there.
-
Well, in Ocean Base 1 you have just 2 squares empty. In current store space (262 occupied vs 200 possible) you'd have to build 2 more general stores. But then you won't have space for later needed Biolab and M.C. Lab, not to mention some Transmission Resolver, Naval Control Center, point defense systems + gravitation shield, Bombardment Shield, and other facilities yet to be researched.
Sure, you can create a dedicated base as a store house, in fact I did the same, but that won't solve the issue completely - whenever your aquanauts come back after a mission with loot you practically have full stores again. In the next episode I see you already have troubles to refill explosives reserves immediately after mission - and later in game, when you'll get some interceptor subs you'll face the problem how much space craft torpedo launchers + ammo for them take.
-
We're just going in circles...
I do understand what you want to say.
But I do not want, do not plan and do not agree with a feature of having double/triple/quadruple/unlimited base size.
If you run into "issues", you are supposed to:
1. build more facilities (if there is enough space in the base)
2. or upgrade existing facilities
3. or build more facilities in a different base
4. or sell stuff
5. or ask a modder to rebalance the mod (if you're convinced it's not balanced)
End of the story.
Feel free to continue the discussion and brainstorm any new (or old) ideas... but please do not ask me to change my mind about this feature anymore, you're wasting both your time and my time. You're not the first to ask (and most likely not the last either). The feature has been thoroughly considered (already long ago) and the decision is final.
-
Well, one thing I don't know - how I can upgrade existing facility??
-
I would like to have a base surface level for gameplay/fun reasons, not because something is unbalanced, too hard, too easy, or because it's Thursday.
In my opinion this discussion went in an inappropriate direction. I doubt anyone would seriously consider coding this feature after hearing such arguments, because as Meridian explained, these aren't real problems.
My reasons for requesting this are:
- It would allow surface buildings, which are thematically different (in addition to underground facilities)
- Potentially more interesting base defence missions, with multiple layers but without as much tedium as a wholly underground base would require
- A more interesting base building progress, where you start with surface buildings and then develop underground facilities
- It strongly appeals to my inner kid to have a full cross section of my base, like in G. I. Joe comics and similar sources
-
I would like to have a base surface level for gameplay/fun reasons, not because something is unbalanced, too hard, too easy, or because it's Thursday.
Is there any way to simulate this with existing functionality?
- It would allow surface buildings, which are thematically different (in addition to underground facilities)
- Potentially more interesting base defence missions, with multiple layers but without as much tedium as a wholly underground base would require
Would it be possible to:
Design your early base facilities with outdoor tile sets.
Fill all the upper levels of the base map with air tiles instead dirt tiles.
Replace all the walled dirt tiles between facilities on the upper levels with empty air tiles or an outdoor surface tile.
Include outdoor light sources to hide the lack of normal day/night behavior.
- A more interesting base building progress, where you start with surface buildings and then develop underground facilities
Early game facilities would only consist of "surface" structures except maybe the access lift. Later facilities would consist of the same surface structures with added underground floors. These later facilities could be more advanced versions of early facilities or combination facilities. A later facility could be built on top of an existing early facility only if the surface portion matched.
I suspect not all of this is possible, but perhaps the problem spots could be identified and be potentially addressed with a much smaller engine change. Where the base is still a 6x6, 36 facility max base but in battlescape it appears to have 4 or so above ground levels (mostly empty air tiles except the buildings and scenery) and a couple below ground levels.
-
I personally is amazed how this has carried so far. Just have 1x1 hangers. First step. You will find out how much base space you free up.. once you only have 4 1x1 hangers in a base. You might not even need this feature once that feature is done.
-
Is there any way to simulate this with existing functionality?
I made some additional suggestions/speculations on that in this post:
https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,7848.msg123143.html#msg123143
Not sure it's any help, but it's there.
-
Thanks Waldo, I've been reading the thread your post is in. But if I understand Solarius correctly, he isn't looking for more than a 36 facility base. He just wants the upper levels of the base to be above ground instead of the entire base below ground. In my previous post, each facility would occupy the whole vertical column ie all levels even if some levels were just open air or plain dirt. Similar to how Piratez bases include a sewer level and an air duct/utility tunnel level. Since he is an experienced modder, I was wondering how much of his vision he could implement with today's functionality and what the showstoppers are. Meridian has made it perfectly clear that he isn't interested in changing the 6x6x1 base facility layout. But I've seen mixed terrain battlescape maps and wondered if something similar is possible with the base defense battlescape.
PS It just occurred to me that the aliens get have a base with a surface level but maybe that is only allowed on Mars. :P
-
Would it be possible to:
Design your early base facilities with outdoor tile sets.
Fill all the upper levels of the base map with air tiles instead dirt tiles.
Replace all the walled dirt tiles between facilities on the upper levels with empty air tiles or an outdoor surface tile.
Include outdoor light sources to hide the lack of normal day/night behavior.
Yes, all this is possible already. Generating the battlescape map is not a problem.
All missing features are related to
- Basescape view (layers),
- A function to use verticalLevels to the surface buildings on the surface (except for lifts and hangars, which would be present on both layers, but technically they would have to be coded as surface buildings).
Early game facilities would only consist of "surface" structures except maybe the access lift.
Something like that, except it's pointless to be allowed to build a lift when you can't build any underground facilities yet.
Later facilities would consist of the same surface structures with added underground floors. These later facilities could be more advanced versions of early facilities or combination facilities. A later facility could be built on top of an existing early facility only if the surface portion matched.
That is a bit more complicated than I envisioned, I just wanted two layers which are separate from one another, except for lifts and hangars. But I agree that it would be nice to have cellars.
I suspect not all of this is possible, but perhaps the problem spots could be identified and be potentially addressed with a much smaller engine change. Where the base is still a 6x6, 36 facility max base but in battlescape it appears to have 4 or so above ground levels (mostly empty air tiles except the buildings and scenery) and a couple below ground levels.
This is trivial (if tedious) to do, Piratez did that years ago. Therefore it's not really in scope of this discussion.
-
Ah. yes I did misunderstand.
Best of luck with whatever you guys figure out. I'll be happy regardless.
-
Well, I cared only about extra 6x6 grid for facilities, but if the idea can be evolved into better, more interesting base defense missions then I'm full up to it.
-
Well I guess I don't understand either. Based on Solarius response to my last post above in this thread, this now seems to be possible:
So, I've been wondering (Hard.) about making a taller X-Com base map by adding a surface level to the underground level. Basically, adding one layer of earth above each facility, and above that place some appropriate buildings stolen from Hobbes' military installation (for example, a closed dome above each defence, a recreational area above Living Quarters, a big hatch above each Hangar, etc.). It would allow us to fight aliens on the ground before retreating underground for a second stage, if need be.
Now, the problem is, these would require many new tiles for the surface. I wonder how one would handle that... I don't really have any experience with such tricks. Guys, what do you think?
But with a two layer system where above ground is an independent facility from the below ground facility directly under it, the player could put the living quarters under the closed dome and the missile defense under the recreational area! Also, if a surface facility gets destroyed in a base defense, it wouldn't make sense that any other surface facilities would be lost due to being disconnected from the rest of the base. If an underground facility is destroyed does that have any effect on the surface facility directly above it? Also what function or service would a giant hatch provide if a hanger was never built below it? Or if the hatch wasn't directly over the hanger?
I was thinking for example something like the early base has an above ground barracks for staff and an above ground anti aircraft artillery gun for defence. The player through research then unlocks living quarters and missile silo. The player can now upgrade or replace his barracks facility with the recreational area that has living quarters below it. Similarily, he can replace the triple-A gun with the underground missile silo which has the closed dome on the surface. Thus, the above ground portion and the below ground portion are part of the same facility. I realize that post I quoted is almost 5 years old and his vision may be quite different now.
So like I said, I don't understand. Various people in this thread want different things. Players can easily make small text only mods that give them more living, storage space, or whatever so that they wouldn't have to build more than one facility to meet those needs and thus have plenty of remaining available space for facilities in their bases. Modders want to expand the game's capabilities so that they can add cool new content like bases with both above and below ground structures that is different from what others have done. And devs don't want additions to the code that they feel are unnecessary especially when viable alternatives exist.
As for bases that are variable in the x, y, and z axis for facility count, or number of bases, or location of bases on land, on sea, on seafloor, on clouds, moving, in orbit, on the moon or whatever, I feel that it would be better if that was under the modders' control so long as there aren't negative impacts to existing mods. But underappreciated devs have better uses for their time.
-
I like both hangar types to make 1x1 hangars for XCF cars (for more 80% players I asked it is stupid that tiny car needs that huge and expensive space as a spaceship do), so its definitely a feature I would love to see in OXCE.
I was thinking of 2 stages of base defense mission and I don't understand how it should work. You come to the next stage when you enter a specific area or clear the map. It works well if you assaulting, but I can't imagine how defense should work then.
I'd think of it as a single map, generated with vertical levels (like XCF alien embassy map works) with a new feature for the base state. It would be great if we could define different texture for dirt blocks in base state. we also will need facility type to define if this module can be built on the top layer or bottom level (if we stick to 2 levels or more complex definition for the unlimited base levels).
As for facility space per base - I personally feel that we lack of space in XCF - a lot of LPs i saw in lategame have 100% filled base, I'm fealing that even in midgame I need more space in bases. Also as a modder I feel myself limited in options, especially after facility triggers go live (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752 (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752)) - we could have specific mission, arc or event spawning buildings, like psi gates, different radars or scanners - endless possibilities! But I don't feel we should add even more facilities in XCF, as players will not be possible to fit everything he or she needs.
-
As for facility space per base - I personally feel that we lack of space in XCF - a lot of LPs i saw in lategame have 100% filled base, I'm fealing that even in midgame I need more space in bases. Also as a modder I feel myself limited in options, especially after facility triggers go live (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752 (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752)) - we could have specific mission, arc or event spawning buildings, like psi gates, different radars or scanners - endless possibilities! But I don't feel we should add even more facilities in XCF, as players will not be possible to fit everything he or she needs.
That is simply not true, it's just an illusion (feels real, yes, but still just an illusion).
I also have an LP running right now, PirateZ... and it's still EARLY game... and I already have all 8 bases completely full.
That doesn't mean however there is not enough space... I can (and I will) easily repurpose the bases for completely different things during the rest of the game.
It's normal, even more, it's not brain-dead!
There is space for 6x6x8 = 288 facilities... if that's not enough for someone (even in megamods), then I can safely say that even 1000 or 10000 will not be enough for them.
PS: Psi gates, scanners, etc. how many of them do you want? 10? 20? 30? Even if you have 30 absolutely specialized buildings that you just must have built all at the same time.... how much is that? 30/288 = 10%. Measly insignificant ten percent!
-
I like both hangar types to make 1x1 hangars for XCF cars (for more 80% players I asked it is stupid that tiny car needs that huge and expensive space as a spaceship do), so its definitely a feature I would love to see in OXCE.
I was thinking of 2 stages of base defense mission and I don't understand how it should work. You come to the next stage when you enter a specific area or clear the map. It works well if you assaulting, but I can't imagine how defense should work then.
I'd think of it as a single map, generated with vertical levels (like XCF alien embassy map works) with a new feature for the base state. It would be great if we could define different texture for dirt blocks in base state. we also will need facility type to define if this module can be built on the top layer or bottom level (if we stick to 2 levels or more complex definition for the unlimited base levels).
As for facility space per base - I personally feel that we lack of space in XCF - a lot of LPs i saw in lategame have 100% filled base, I'm fealing that even in midgame I need more space in bases. Also as a modder I feel myself limited in options, especially after facility triggers go live (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752 (https://github.com/MeridianOXC/OpenXcom/pull/56/commits/a888c15031f0ef54cb25ed1af0ba0f6033d22752)) - we could have specific mission, arc or event spawning buildings, like psi gates, different radars or scanners - endless possibilities! But I don't feel we should add even more facilities in XCF, as players will not be possible to fit everything he or she needs.
Hi Finnik, if you recalled our once online conversation in discord that coding 1x1 hangers is possible. If you can code this feature and limits which craft can dock the hanger. You will be doing us all a big favour.
Remember, 1x1 hangers has the flexibility to be remade to 4 1x1 hangers. Instead of one large hanger with 4 craft. 3x3 hangers are unnecessary in my book.
It will save space in a base, instead of asking for more bases added beyond the default. Having more bases than 8 is Something a feature I would see too. For me, 16 is the sweet spot.
If you want 2 stage base defense mission, this is possible with Ohartenstein23's vertical level. You just have to put the ufo outside of the base's map. I have briefly experiment on this, however, my ufo was sunken below underground. I have yet to go back on this since.
-
There is space for 6x6x8 = 288 facilities... if that's not enough for someone (even in megamods), then I can safely say that even 1000 or 10000 will not be enough for them.
yeah, but we have hangars as 4x4 blocks, they cut this math a lot. For me, I usually have 3 of them at the main 3 bases (for building crafts and having different assault crafts) and often 2 hangars at small bases for different interceptors. So for my loadout, 76 spots are used only for hangars leaving us 212 spots. With adding lifts to it we have 204 spots - not that small, but I can't say its enough for everything megamod could need. And its far less then 1000 or 10000.
Even if you have 30 absolutely specialized buildings that you just must have built all at the same time.... how much is that? 30/288 = 10%. Measly insignificant ten percent!
I'm sure the day I commit XCF feature, adding 30 unique facilities that are absolutely necessary to win the game will be the day of my execution. That day I'll ask for mercy from players and cry, that its just "Measly insignificant ten percent!"
For now, I don't feel I can add even one more unique building, tho, I'd love to.
Hi Finnik, if you recalled our once online conversation in discord that coding 1x1 hangers is possible. If you can code this feature and limits which craft can dock the hanger. You will be doing us all a big favour.
Hold on, I never said that I'm the Chosen One, who can deal with it.
I newer saw related code and I have no idea what's needed and what is the lower side of an iceberg. I'm not any talented in coding, so if Dev's do not do it, I dare not claim.
-
yeah, but we have hangars as 4x4 blocks, they cut this math a lot. For me, I usually have 3 of them at the main 3 bases (for building crafts and having different assault crafts) and often 2 hangars at small bases for different interceptors. So for my loadout, 76 spots are used only for hangars leaving us 212 spots. With adding lifts to it we have 204 spots - not that small, but I can't say its enough for everything megamod could need. And its far less then 1000 or 10000.
Why the fuck would you have 4x4 hangars? Isn't 2x2 already big enough?
Also, just make upgraded hangars, that can have multiple craft... and you save tons of space.
You want underground buildings? Easy, just say in the description that this upgraded facility also digs underground and that's why it provides x2 storage space.
If you feel players would not have enough space... and I must note that in all XCF LPs I have seen so far players were NOT complaining... just provide facility upgrades:
1. starting 1x1 storage facility = 100 space
2. upgraded 1x1 storage facility = 200 space (explanation: better arrangement)
3. more upgraded 1x1 storage facility = 400 space (explanation: digs underground, twice the space)
4. even more upgraded 1x1 storage facility = 600 space (explanation: digs even more underground)
5. ultimate 1x1 storage facility = 10000 space (explanation: offsite storage included)
You can do that for living quarters too, for hangars as well, for workshops, etc.
There are unlimited possibilities today already!
-
There are unlimited possibilities today already!
So true... there are more possibilities than free time for modding. Thanks to Yankes and Meridian.
Also, multi-layered base will create a little micromanagement nightmare.