Author Topic: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.  (Read 31735 times)

Offline Dybdal

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Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« on: August 30, 2017, 11:14:22 pm »
Hey everyone.

Never really got into XCom until the 2012 release (put roughly 500 hours into it) and finally decided to try my hand at the original.
I've spent roughly a week trying to learn the game organicly by replaying the first two-three months then restarting the game and experimenting abit again.
I've learned quite abit and formed a general idea of how to be successful in both the tactical and strategical element of the game but there are some areas that ive been unable to gleem yet.

1.) Does weight have any bearing on TU(s) when not over the soldier weight limit? aka, can a soldier with a pistol move further than say someone with a rifle?

2.) About corpses, do they serve any purposs in the game? in 2012 they both serve as research and currency for item manufactoring but in UFO Defense, it seems to me as they only serve to fil out my ingame UFOpeadia when i research them (with fluff information) and dont contribute to my tech-tree or have any value as a currency!

3.) About the Stun Rod/Stun Bomb, how do they work? am i correct in making the asumption that stun rods/bombs can do from 0 to max stun damage? by a background dice roll just as weapons fire?

4.) About interrogations, am i correct in making the asumption that interrogations only serve as a means to progress the story (any alien -> leader -> commander -> end of game mission) and all the other interrogations only serve to fill out your UFOpeadia with fluff information?

5.) What determins if a UFO is destroyed or crash lands when enganged by XCOM? fx will you need Stingray's the entire game to ensure you do not oblitarate small UFO's with higher firepower? anywhere to read up on what aircraft weapon works best on what type of UFO? and on the notion of UFO's, how long can you stay on Avalanche missles? how many aircrafts do you need to deal with fx Medium & Large Scouts? and is it even possible to down them with Avalanche missles?

6.) Extra bases? when do you normaly go for them? im having a hard time figuring out when to start setting up my next base, is there a good rule of thumb on this?

phew.. well hopefully someone has some time to provide some clarity, wickedly addicting game.. gonna go shoot down some aliens and experiment with the motion scanner & proximity grenade today.
Learning is AWSOME.. Thanks.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2017, 11:33:09 pm »
snip

Hi Dybdal, welcome to the forums!  Before answering your questions, I'm linking the ufopedia.org page for UFO Defense, most everything you could ever want to know about the game is contained there.  As for your questions:
  • If you're under the weight limit, you don't get any bonuses, just no penalty for being over.
  • Corpses are for research to learn a bit more about the unit, but sometimes that information is wrong. There is an option in the menu that allows you to sell them, and many mods use them for the research tree or as manufacturing components.
  • All weapons except for explosives, incendiary rounds, and smoke have a 0-200% roll on their damage before armor and resistances are considered, including stun weapons.
  • Correct, most interrogations are either fluff or storyline, though a navigator is required for the hyperwave decoder and psionics are locked behind a psi-capable alien.
  • For reading, consult the ufopedia online.  A UFO damaged beyond half of its hit points will crash, if damaged more than its total hit points it will be destroyed.  Avalanches are best until you get plasma beam since they have more range than most UFOs, though medium scouts have a higher chance of being destroyed when using them, and only cannons are guaranteed not to destroy small scouts.
  • Radar coverage is important for detecting more UFOs to get more cash from selling alien equipment - I like to start building one before the end of the first month, then another by the second or third month.  You can totally do the entire game on one base - look on YouTube for Meridian's Hawaii Challenge.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2017, 12:00:59 am »
Heh: one tip on the proximity grenade:  Toss it on tile away from the door

D|_|X

Where D is the door, _ is empty tile, and X is proximity grenade. 
The reason is that an enemy approaching behind the door will trigger it if its right at the door, but the door will be closed when it goes off, and the enemy takes no damage.  When you deploy it as suggested, they get blasted when they step out of the craft.

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2017, 12:02:23 am »
In addition:
2. Don't forget, that you get points for everything you did research successfully. It's not a big sum for corpses, but still: it contributes to the monthly points you collect.
4. They do serve an important role, but when you play the game further than just the first three months, you will find out what that means. ;-) There are researchable things that are purely story telling but others (incl. some aliens) are extremely valuable.
5. I like Avalanches best in early game. ;-) Hint: There are technical specifications about every UFO type there is in the game. You can find out about that information from reliable ingame(!) sources. Of course you can always look at the ufopaedia website. There's pretty much everything about the game, including the finer points of the battlescape and other game mechanics. But I think, it takes the kick out of the game for a first-time player. Just do your research, play around with the things you gather over ingame time. You will find, that the game offers plenty of variety on how to play it and what you want to concentrate on. Once you have played it through, you will probably find a much more efficient approach. But as I already said: I think it'd take the fun out of the game, if you already knew about all the important twists and tricks from the beginning.
6. Thumb rule: whenever you have money left, expand your bases. That means building new ones as well as building new facilities on existing bases. It takes time to get them useful, as every base facility needs time for building it. So the sooner you start, the better. That's more a question of available money... As ohartenstein23 says: radar coverage is very important. You might end up with a lot of movement just outside the one radar and miss a lot of UFOs with valuable items. Just don't place them to near to each other. Take the large radar as a base for comparison and try to cover all the land masses. That should do the trick in general. Just one thought about the layout of new bases: The layout has tactical aspects, too... Think about the possible ways one might enter the base and accordingly, how to defend it easier. (Am I already telling too much here? I don't know.)

Offline Dybdal

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2017, 01:21:06 am »
Thanks for the replys. Your all champions in my book.

Reason im not going too deep into the game yet, is just one of my quirks of learning a game like UFO Defense.. no real good reason for it, i just enjoy experimenting without resorting to massive abuse of loading saves.

ivandogovich, yeah i figured out how the proximity grenade works after 3~4 UFO's worth of frustration, decided the best way of trying to learn how it works around doors was using my own men as test subjects, alot of good men died in the name of science that day.

7Saturn, i allready know about the interrogation path needed to end the game (and unlock the psiLab) one of my friends shared that valuable tidbid before i started with UFO Defense.
And i found out the hard way about base layout.. first time playing the game and i had a base invasion at the end of january.. being absolutly graped from three sides by cyberdiscs was a ...  shall we say learning experience and decided to read up on the subject after an embarrasing end to my first campaign. Lesson learned in pixelated blood.. all in the name of science.

Oh on that note, someone prob knows someone who's done a vanilla (un-modded) playthough of UFO Defense? without any constraints.. (such as building their base in hawaii or one of the two poles) would be cool to watch the first few months in a week or two to see how well (or more likely poorly) ive learned them.
Anywho.. thanks. Time for bed.

Offline Dybdal

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2017, 10:16:27 pm »
So.. had another session after work and learned a bunch yet again.
motion scanners are extremly useful and medium scouts with roaming cyberdiscs inside are interresting to deal with without high explosives, the limited amount of space makes exploding discs extremly painful

Two quick questions, after todays session.
1.) Does gear from your dead soldiers get recovered after a mission is successful? or is it permanently lost?
2.) Do thrown explosives stack? lets say i throw two HEs/Grenades primed with 0 on the same tile or adjacent to each other, will both explosions go off when the round ends? or will the first one destroy the second one before it gets to do any damage?

As allways thanks a MILLION for openxcom and your helpful replys :D

Offline Hobbes

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2017, 10:35:18 pm »
Two quick questions, after todays session.
1.) Does gear from your dead soldiers get recovered after a mission is successful? or is it permanently lost?

If you kill all the aliens, all the items present on the battlescape will be recovered. Otherwise, if you evac, only items present on the craft's floor or the soldiers embarked will be recovered. If all your units are killed, you lose the craft and all items you brought to battle.

Quote
2.) Do thrown explosives stack? lets say i throw two HEs/Grenades primed with 0 on the same tile or adjacent to each other, will both explosions go off when the round ends? or will the first one destroy the second one before it gets to do any damage?

No. The first grenade will explode and remove any objects that can't withstand the explosive power and this means any additional grenades

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2017, 12:14:23 am »
In combination: Of course your items of any fallen soldier may disappear, too, when the area with your soldiers corpse is affected by an explosion. Most likely scenario with that result: One of your guys holds an active grenade and is killed. He drops the active grenade, which in turn destroys all the gear he carried with him, too.

Or one annoying thing, that does happen, when you are not careful enough (or tend to play a certain style in some situations): You don't have any soldiers left at your skyranger (or other starting positions...). So you feel free to blast any alien that stand's there (or maybe it happens by reaction fire of a HWP). The explosion obliterates the items you left there, too. Meaning you will have to buy or produce them again. Nice job... :-/

Offline Countdown

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2017, 08:43:51 am »
Heh: one tip on the proximity grenade:  Toss it on tile away from the door

D|_|X

Where D is the door, _ is empty tile, and X is proximity grenade. 
The reason is that an enemy approaching behind the door will trigger it if its right at the door, but the door will be closed when it goes off, and the enemy takes no damage.  When you deploy it as suggested, they get blasted when they step out of the craft.

Really? I never knew this. Was this "issue" fixed in TFTD? I have recently successfully used proximity grenades right in front of the alien door ... but maybe that was because it was a double door?

D|X
D|A

Where D is the door, X is the proximity grenade, and A is the dead alien after it stepped out.

Of course you can always look at the ufopaedia website. There's pretty much everything about the game, including the finer points of the battlescape and other game mechanics. But I think, it takes the kick out of the game for a first-time player. Just do your research, play around with the things you gather over ingame time. You will find, that the game offers plenty of variety on how to play it and what you want to concentrate on. Once you have played it through, you will probably find a much more efficient approach. But as I already said: I think it'd take the fun out of the game, if you already knew about all the important twists and tricks from the beginning.

I agree with this. My first campaign was probably the most fun because I just didn't know everything and it was exciting/scary when you encountered new aliens and challenges. I still remember the first time I shot a Cyberdisc standing right next to me, not realizing I was going to blow myself up. It was pretty funny.

2.) Do thrown explosives stack? lets say i throw two HEs/Grenades primed with 0 on the same tile or adjacent to each other, will both explosions go off when the round ends? or will the first one destroy the second one before it gets to do any damage?

As Hobbes said, they don't stack, but in my opinion, they should stack. In Terror from the Deep, this issue was fixed by giving grenades enough armor to withstand their own explosions so you could stack them. I think you should be able to because a) it's more realistic (2 grenades make a bigger explosion than 1) and b) some enemies take more than one explosive to take down, so if you can't use more than 1 at a time that's pretty unfair.

The way I get around this is with a mod that gives the grenades in UFO more armor (like they do in TFTD). It's a very simple mod and doesn't affect anything else about the gameplay (other than grenades will survive explosions where other items will not). If you are interested I can post the mod here for you.

Or one annoying thing, that does happen, when you are not careful enough (or tend to play a certain style in some situations): You don't have any soldiers left at your skyranger (or other starting positions...). So you feel free to blast any alien that stand's there (or maybe it happens by reaction fire of a HWP). The explosion obliterates the items you left there, too. Meaning you will have to buy or produce them again. Nice job... :-/

Yeah, I made this mistake my first campaign. Killed a Cyberdisc near the Skyranger and lost EVERYTHING because I used to bring EVERYTHING I owned on every mission. After that I started only bringing what I would need for that mission. More time consuming, but mitigates the losses if I get blown up or even lose the whole mission.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 08:52:18 am by Countdown »

Offline Dybdal

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2017, 03:31:58 pm »
Thanks for all your replys again. Hobbes, 7Saturn & Countdown.

I am taking great care to learn the game on my own as much as possible Countdown.
Without reading on UFOpeadia about anything i havnt spent alot of time experimenting with my self first.

And the questions im asking here, i hope reflects that. I've spent quite abit of time experimenting (with the limited amount of time i have available after work) before asking here (and reading on UFOpeadia.org)

Its been a super fun experience so far and i feel pretty well rounded at this point.
Getting off work next week, so the plan is to experiment with shorter games until then and then playthough the entire game in a mater of a week.
So far i've only faced: Sectoids, Floaters, Reapers & Cyberdiscs.. had one terrormission spawn cysalids in the 3rd month (i believe so atleast, decided against playing further when i heared new sounds in the fog)

edit: Another question.. mod related this time.
Yesterday i had an issue where i accepted a mission, went into the inventory/deployment screen and then got interuppted by someone at my door.
When i came back, i had completly forgotten if it was a day or night mission and "hoped" it was a day mission (it wasnt) safe to say it didnt end well.
Is there a mod in exsistance that can provide the information about what light cycle (day/night) the mission will be on the deployment screen?
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 03:37:50 pm by Dybdal »

Offline Meridian

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2017, 04:22:18 pm »
edit: Another question.. mod related this time.
Yesterday i had an issue where i accepted a mission, went into the inventory/deployment screen and then got interuppted by someone at my door.
When i came back, i had completly forgotten if it was a day or night mission and "hoped" it was a day mission (it wasnt) safe to say it didnt end well.
Is there a mod in exsistance that can provide the information about what light cycle (day/night) the mission will be on the deployment screen?

No, there isn't... would need to be implemented.

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2017, 06:06:11 pm »
Well, better avoid them altogether. On terror missions you might not have much of a choice, as well when you really want to attack a landed UFO (e. g. for its E115). But for the most part it is simple just to wait until daytime. One hint here: You will not get any penalty for not attacking crashed UFOs. Especially in lategame you will find, that there are plenty of UFOs laying around and you can pick your targets more to your liking.

Offline Dybdal

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #12 on: September 03, 2017, 04:25:58 pm »
Allrighty.
Thanks for the replys again 7Saturn & Meridian (love your youtube stuff btw)
Illuminating answers as allways, love it.

Last set of questions, before im off work tomorrow for a week and have the time to really sink into the game.

Geoscape:
1.) What factors go into a decision of what region to place a expansion base? is it based solely on the finalcial side of the game? (how much each country is funding) or is there something else that goes into it? (i would assume there is some type of occurrence algorythm at play to ensure all UFO's dont congregate in a remote location like the poles) im asking because North America & Asia seems to fluctuate game to game with who provides the most funding.
2.) How is the first month scripted inside the game engine? from repeated 3 month playthoughs it seems to me, that UFO activity behave abit differently here than the rest of the months (is there some type of restriction at play aswell? can Alien bases be built within the first month?)

Battlescape:
3.) Is there any difference to the Left & Right hand? (a few days ago i made my own TU table for item slots and the thought occured to me that something simular might also be at work with the Left/Right hand)
4.) Do smoke grenades work vs elevated targets?
Example: Lets say i spawn right next to a two floor building and i know that a sectoid is standing in a window on the second floor, if i drop a smoke at the back of my Skyranger and walk out into the smoke clouds will the sectoids vision be impaired by each tile of smoke between the soldier & sectoid as if they were on the same elevation? or not?
5.) Vision & smoke interaction, how does it work? i know on a "feel basis" that smoke limits your vision range but im unclear about by how many squares and does it stay the same each turn?

Oh and last question: Incendiary ammo
This is the only weapon/ammo type i've yet to really "connect" with (outside of the starting pistols). I've found a use for every other weapon in the game for eighter broad usage or niche situations but i've simply been unable to find any that isnt covered by something else with this weapon.

When do you bring this ammo type? (if ever)
How does the fire work? will anything that passes though the fire catch fire? or do you need to hit the target with the shot to ensure they burn?
How much damage does the fire do?
Does a unit need to stay inside the fire to recive damage? (if not then for how long does the fire persist on said unit when it leaves?)

And lastly does anyone have a youtube video(s) of someone who uses Incendiary ammo to great effect? I would love to see someone make use of this stuff to learn.

Edit: forgot a question.. Is there any defensive merit to kneeling? (outside the accuracy increase on reaction snap shots) are you harder to hit when you kneel vs standing up?
Edit Edit: Forgot another question, is mind probe designated a Psionic when it comes to the advanced option of Psioic line of sight? within openxcom?

Phew.. quite abit of questions this time around.
My hope is to complete the game next week (if time permits) and then i think id like to make a introduction video to UFO Defense of the first three months with what i've learned at the end of it for players like me comming with classic/impossible experience of Enemy Within going into UFO Defense.
Stuff really started to click with me, when i started making direct links between the two games (in alot of ways they are the same, and in alot of ways they are not) and spead up the learning process.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2017, 04:47:08 pm by Dybdal »

Offline 7Saturn

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #13 on: September 03, 2017, 05:09:34 pm »
1: Positioning of bases: I wouldn't take to much consideration into it during mid- and late game. But especially for the starting base: I wouldn't place it somewhere very remote, if I where you. AFAIK, there's one challenge, a player played: Playing with starting base on Hawaii. =) No, seriously, in the beginning, Afrika, Europe, Asia are all good, as there are plenty of nations around. In mid game it's more a priority of getting all UFOs on radar. Still, a few will slip through. But once you have covered all the continents/poles, you have only very little possibility of not finding out about their actions. The isles are a bit of a problem, as they are low priority, if you want to cover as much land mass as you can. They tend to build bases there eventually, and you will not notice them right away.
3: I don't think, there's any difference. AFAIK, there's no distinction of soldiers being left handed or right handed.
4: If the smoke reaches enough height, I think so. I am however not sure what happens, if the smoke is only on the bottom level, if this makes any difference to flying units.
5: Units standing on a tile in fire during the end of the round will either take damage or even be set on fire. AFAIK, incendiary ammo does a base amount of damage on impact (dmg starts not with 0 as the 0-200 rule dictates), but I might have understood that one wrong. I never use it...
6: I think so. You can hide behind it, if the cover is high enough. On the other hand, that also prevents you from seeing the rest or aiming at it. But yes, you can take cover like this. The biggest advantage however, is the increase of accuracy while kneeling.
7: Yes, you need line of sight for mind probes as well, if you use this mod.

Offline The Reaver of Darkness

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Re: Got a few questions about UFO Defense.
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2017, 08:03:40 am »
1.) Best positioning of bases is where you expect to find the aliens. You should make it a goal to cover all land on the planet with radar. The most important pieces of land are the funding nations and land near them. Europe is densely packed with multiple funding nations, so successful missions in Europe tend to increase your funding a lot. The USA is the largest funder while Canada and Mexico also pay you, so North America is pretty valuable. Europe, Asia, and Africa make a large amount of land all close together, if you have a base in the center of that landmass, your interceptors can reach all the way to the edges of it. Alternatively, you can cover the whole place with 3 bases if each has a large radar: one for Africa, one for Europe and the middle east, and one for the rest of Asia and part of the southeast islands.

Your second base ought to be far away from your first base, to improve your total world coverage.

If your base is near the edge of a large region, your radar may not cover the region very well and aliens may perform missions there without you knowing about it. You can see the list of world regions in the GRAPHS tab in-game, if you're seeing UFO Activity in Areas, or X-Com Activity in Areas.

2.) Some missions are scripted to happen automatically but throughout most of the game the alien missions happen in a randomized pattern. When you start a new game, an Alien Research mission begins immediately, focused 100% of the time in the same region as your base. If your base is centered on the region and especially if it is a small region, you will almost always detect a UFO near your base within the first few hours. It will tend to be a small scout, and it is the first UFO that appears for that mission.

If you see a lot of UFOs congregating over one area and landing, they are probably part of an Alien Base mission. You can run multiple ground missions on the larger UFOs to recover lots of valuable resources and items, and once the mission has progressed far enough, you can have an aircraft patrol over the area to discover the fresh alien base.

3.) There is no difference between left or right hand.

4.) Smoke grenades and other grenades do not work very well against elevated targets. Explosions occur only on the same elevation as the grenade. You can change this in the openxcom advanced settings, by changing the explosion height. I recommend doing so--the original game didn't have this feature but nearly everyone will agree that it should have.



The game is great in many ways, as I see you are discovering. But there are a bunch of areas where the balance falls short or fails completely.


Air combat is pretty poorly implemented in my opinion, and throughout the game you'll find it's generally pretty easy to shoot down UFOs. Catching them isn't always quite so easy, however. Once you research and build a new aircraft and the new air weapon, it'll be really easy to take out everything except the largest UFO type. Even before this, you can take out everything other than the largest with only interceptors and avalanches. Very small and small UFOs are easily downed with one interceptor, even mediums usually go down with only one interceptor. You can shoot down a terror ship with 2 interceptors/avalanches, and a supply ship with 3 or 4. The hardest part about shooting down the larger ones with interceptors is getting them all in range while it's moving slow enough.

Stingrays are fairly weak, the main reasons to ever use them are to crash land a small scout or to save storage space. Avalanches use a lot of space in your general stores, but otherwise are just plain better than stingrays. Also, you'll generally only see small scouts (size: very small) get destroyed. Even medium and large scouts (size: small) will generally crash land. If you do manage to destroy them, you get twice the points that you would have got for crashing them, but you lose the opportunity for a ground mission. If you don't intend to go to the crash site, then it would be better score-wise to destroy them if you could.



Incendiary ammo can be used like electro-flares, except you shoot it instead of throwing it. Larger incendiaries like the incendiary rocket have such a good spread that they light up way more area than an electro-flare. The fires you start will mostly just go out eventually but they can spread a bit and light up even more terrain. I haven't found incendiary to be that useful for lighting but it has potential benefits.

Incendiary damage is very weak. It is randomly 1,5,6,7,8,9, or 10 damage. In the original game it was the same possible values, except 50% of the time it was 1, and the other 50% it was 5-10. Reapers are a bit susceptible to it but otherwise the only enemy it's useful against is the sectopod because it penetrates armor. It'll take a lot of incendiary to take down a sectopod, but other weapons often don't do any damage to it at all, so it's the difference between it being difficult to kill vs impossible to kill. But the best thing to use against sectopods is powerful laser shots.

Psionics are also pretty easy. It'll seem scary when the aliens use them against you, but once you get your hands on psionics it makes the game almost too easy. And that's generally true of the late-game, it gets pretty easy. The aliens start trying harder to go against you, but you get so powerful you don't care.


- - - - - - - - - -

I put a lot of work into a mod for the game which attempts to preserve the unmodded feel of the game while fixing the game balance issues as well as adding a larger array of stuff so that you have more choices in the game, and I've been looking for a fresh player to try it out for me. If you're interested, here's the mod page: [UFO MEGAMOD] Reaver's Faithful Megamod

I tried to leave the game at about the same difficulty overall, however some things are easier while others are harder. The length of the game is significantly extended which fits well since there's more content overall. Air combat with UFOs will be more difficult--not difficult per se, just not stupidly easy--so you'd be getting your own aircraft shot more during combat. There's also more reason to use stingray missiles. Avalanches are weaker and more erratic, stingrays are potent and accurate but their drawback is having to get into danger range to shoot. You also get two interception craft: the interceptor and the punisher, both are weaker than your interceptors in the original game but if you learn their differences and use that to your advantage, they are still very capable aircraft.

The mod always gives you choices like that: stingray or avalanche, interceptor or punisher, pistols or rifles or heavy cannons, and all of them are great when used properly but it's up to you to decide which things work best for you, or perhaps you'll use different things in different situations.

I made psionics more difficult. The aliens using them against you might seem a bit stronger, but mostly when you start using them it'll be tricky to really get good psionic capability. Your soldiers will fail psionic attacks more often, and your best soldiers won't be able to mind control the strongest psionic aliens.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2017, 08:39:20 am by The Reaver of Darkness »