[TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.62)

[Roxis231]

Nord - In the first post you have a picture that shows a downed Baracuda, is it posable for you to send me a copy of the MCD / Map files.

I have a mod which turns the baracuda into a fighter/intercepter and I was thinking of useing this to improve the design.

[Nord]

Nord - In the first post you have a picture that shows a downed Baracuda, is it posable for you to send me a copy of the MCD / Map files.

I have a mod which turns the baracuda into a fighter/intercepter and I was thinking of useing this to improve the design.

Sure. But this MCD is simply, and not pretend to be used as barracuda map.

[kikimoristan]

Aight just started playing with this mod and I noticed right off the bat that there is ACID damage type in TFTD. Odd because Acid carried by Celatids in UFO was replaced by Freeze Deep One in TFTD. So somehow you added another damage type?

Also I noticed Knife is Armor Piercing damage type but there is another Melee damage type used by Drill. I am not sure if you meant to make drill and knife different damage types or not.

[Nord]

Acid type of damage persist in TFTD from beginning. Deep Ones uses it, and some other...
What about knife - is it in this version, that they do piercing damage? Because they must not... I make spears for pearcing and other melee weapons for melee damage.
Btw, i has added new type of damage, but it is laser.

Upd.: Oops, indeed, i make a mistake and knife got piercing damage type. Will fix it soon.

[kikimoristan]

Acid type of damage persist in TFTD from beginning. Deep Ones uses it, and some other...
What about knife - is it in this version, that they do piercing damage? Because they must not... I make spears for pearcing and other melee weapons for melee damage.
Btw, i has added new type of damage, but it is laser.

Upd.: Oops, indeed, i make a mistake and knife got piercing damage type. Will fix it soon.

TFTD uses Electric Shock damage instead of Acid
Deep One does  an electric attack

See for ex  https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Talk:Damage_Modifiers_(TFTD) Acid is removed and replaced with Electric Shock but in your mod you brought Acid back for Armor rating. But unfortunately no enemy in TFTD deals acid damage.

This is because in OpenXcom extended you can add up to 20 damage types so you added Acid on top of what TFTD already had.

edit fixed the link it was ponting to UFO

Here are the damage types in TFTD
Armor Piercing
Incendiary (Phosphor)
HE High Explosive
Gauss
Sonic
Stun (Freeze)
Drill (Melee)
Electric Shock

You also added Laser and Acid but none of the aliens in TFTD deal Laser or Acid damage or have any form of resistance to those damage types. So this means if you add Laser it will deal 100% damage to all units unless you go and add Laser stats for all their armors

Just a heads up. Whenever you add a new damage type you need to re-balance all the armors in the game including alien resistances. Otherwise laser may produce a kind of imbalance to the whole gameplay. For ex Lobsterman generally are really hard to kill so you need to use melee weapons BUT since they have no Laser or Acid resistances using any of those damage types kills them from range so no need to use melee. The whole point of Drill and melee weapons in TFTD was Lobstermen or weapon durable aliens


Also it seems your Knife should probably deal Armor Piercing damage actually  because this would make it less effective against Lobstermen having to use Drill (melee) damage instead. So it would be effective against weaker aliens without tough plating. So even tho was accidental I think it makes sense to be weaker than Drills and diff damage type.

[Nord]

Well.. They called it electric shock, but in fact it must be acid. So i renamed electric into acid and add laser damage type. And yes, i has implemented changes in armors and attack types, so NOW deep one and some other units DO acidic damage.
By the way, most armors receive 100% damage from laser, but all lasers ignore half armor.
As i can see, there is no problem with that. But i will check this part one more time right now.

[kikimoristan]

Well.. They called it electric shock, but in fact it must be acid. So i renamed electric into acid and add laser damage type. And yes, i has implemented changes in armors and attack types, so NOW deep one and some other units DO acidic damage.
By the way, most armors receive 100% damage from laser, but all lasers ignore half armor.
As i can see, there is no problem with that. But i will check this part one more time right now.

Well is actually called Electric Shock and is a blue electric  animation very different than Acid. Of course is simply a name but the idea is Electric/Acid is an extra type of damage that humans are weaker but aliens are immune to.


As far as I know TFTD calls the damage Electric Shock in game . I should have a look again because I remember you mod adds Acid AND Electric Shock side by side. The armors had Acid resistance but also have Electric Shock resistance.


Here is a good example what I mean

Lobsterman

Armor Piercing 20
Incendiary (Phosphor) 30
HE High Explosive 30
Gauss 30
Sonic 50
Stun (Freeze) 110
Drill (Melee) 200
Electric Shock 0
Laser 100
Acid 100

This makes Laser OP and breaks the default TFTD gameplay style. You no longer need to go melee or use melee because Laser is better. 
 
Also acid damage underwater is kinda weird because there is water everywhere it would instantly dilute the acid spit and reduce the burn. You usually treat acid burns with water right away. Maybe on land  missions makes more sense.   

Poison would make more sense in a way in TFTD esp if you could do damage over time type . You could ask Meridian to implement poison damage type.

[kikimoristan]

Nord have a look at this old post I made a long time ago how Posion could be implemented

https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3409.msg39619.html#msg39619

You could ask Meridian to implement this mechanic in OpenXCom Extended  and use Poison instead of Laser as it ignores armor like you want to and makes more sense underwater .  Poison damage ticks over time so it would add a whole new mechanic where you would hit aliens and wait until they die OR if aliens use poison then you need to bring  a  lot of Medi Kits or some other new kind of item that can cure Poison toxin.


BTW Laser is generally less common underwater  because water absorbs light and is harder to ionize to produce a focused light ray. Of course lasers are used underwater but just water is much less useful medium for lasers. Water is less clean and lasers are less effective too.  So essentially if you take UFO1 weapons and use them underwater they would be like only 30% of damage.

[ohartenstein23]

Since he's already using OXCE+, this or a similar script can just be pasted into the ruleset to make poison work.  It can also be modified to fit exactly your poison suggestion tollworkout, without needing a new OXCE+ version.

[Nord]

tollworkout, thank you. Acid damage type works as intended, and his principe described in ufopedia. But while checking it, i found four other bugs, which will be fixed soon. Scientific (ok, looking-like-scientific) explanations of SciFi can be called my hobby. 
ohartenstein23,  using poisons is a good idea, maybe i implement it somehow. Possible aside of acid... Thanks.
 And about owerpowered lasers - you do not played mod, i think? Usability of lasers is very limited in this case. But if you has played and think lasers is OP, i can balance them.

Upd.: Version 2.02 is up.
Changelog:
 - added missing strings for OXCE+;
 - fixed knife damage type;
 - fixed hook ufopedia;
 - fixed stun grenade sprite;
 - fixed russian translation.

Sorry, nothing new today, only bugfixes

[Woah77]

I'll beta read if you'd like. I'm fairly skilled with reworking someone else's sentences to make them flow properly and read smoothly.

[Nord]

It will be great.

[Meridian]

I really need to start playing this mod.

... and I promise to make oxce+ features support tftd too as soon as possible (mainly fix the colors used).

[Nord]

You're welcome.

[Eddie]

I did some ruleset digging...

I see that base defense has aliens spawning with Ion weapons. Ion weapons don't work out of water and base defence is out of water. Soo... aliens attack you with useless weapons?

Disruptor pulse launchers also don't work out of water and also spawn for base defence. This is also in the vanilla ruleset. That has me wondering, do vanilla aliens really spawn with useless weapons? Am I correct on this or am I reading the ruleset wrong?