Author Topic: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.61)  (Read 689715 times)

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1935 on: October 08, 2022, 10:09:05 pm »
I’m also trying to use hard suits again. I thought they were bad because I would have someone fly up and they’d just get sniped but I think that was my fault for using them wrong. I’d really like having someone on top of USOs for breaching and see if that might help lower my casualties there

I haven't really found much use for hard suits myself. They are a bit more protective and have a short sonar (can see through darkness and smoke), but in my opinion it is far superior to have two drones or shrimp drones to do that (until you can get more on board with Poseidon). Drones also have a sonar of 15 paces, so they provide excellent visibility. You can actually manage night missions with them acting as spotters and by throwing grenades from far back at the spotted aliens. The good side of drones is that they are very easy to replace, reduce the casualties and thus you don't lose your trained-up aquanauts.

Maybe you could learn something by watching various battlescape tactics from YT videos if that's a thing that interests you (for example, Meridian did a TWoTS Veteran LP series, EvilBL (in russian) has a series of videos where he managed SH/IM on the 13th attempt. Personally, I can usually avoid any casualties in missions, except difficult ones. For example, in my current SH/IM run (June 2038), I have so far recruited 37 aquanauts and lost only 8 (4 of them with bad luck in January when I didn't have med-kit yet), yet have done multiple terror missions, two medium ufos, various small ufos, etc.

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1936 on: October 12, 2022, 07:12:09 am »
For some reason, you can see an alien inside a medium sub from a certain point. The ufo had landed, so it should not be damaged in any way, Maybe a bug in the definion of the medium sub? See screenshot and a save.

I also saw a very strange thing in a base defense mission. The final tasoth was hiding between two obstructions in a sub pen (located at the top right location in the base; the tasoth was at the top right corner, if I recall correctly, three squares down from the top, one square off from the right wall; behind and between the two obstructions). You could see the location in the bug hunt minimap. I went with a drone to a square 2 squares away with a direct sight between the two obstruction to the location, but the drone did not spot the alien. That made me conclude there has to be some bug, for example in the definition of sub pens that blocked the view, Unfortunately I didn't stop and collect a save and screentshot then. But possibly this could be sufficient to pinpoint the issue.

The medium sub floor plan is different from vanilla TFTD so it could be specific to TWoTS (or where the new subs came from). I doubt the base sub pen definion has been changed, though.

EDIT: attached second screenshot and a save from a different hole in medium sub.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 08:31:47 pm by psavola »

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1937 on: October 13, 2022, 11:21:43 am »
In my current SH/IM run, I'm currently crippled in Nov 2038 by not been able to obtain MC readers (FWIW I also got the first very large ship in Sep 2038). I apprently seeing almost the same thing (only 1 MC reader) in an earlier play (where I also had the problem of seeing the first bio-drone in month 15). Alien implants, sonic tech, etc. are all gated through MC reader, which typically are only available in battleships (i.e. terror missions). In the early game, I might have had an opportunity to get one (gillmen/deep one terror mission), but the mission would have been unfeasible at that research level if I had not used grenades - and if there were any MC readers, they were blown up. Since then there haven't been very many terror missions. Looking at the ruleset, there could be some for example in the alien lab mission, but doing it is unfeasible before you have MC protection. In mid-game, the terror missions seem to be mostly replaced by mind-worm terror missions and just now (mid-Nov), a church vs. arsenal attack.

IMHO this is an aspect that should be less RNG-dependent. Maybe MC reader should not be a dependency for all these techs (e.g. sonic)? Or more MC readers should be included in the itemsets in other missions (for example, there would be a guaranteed MC reader in very large subs)? Or the rate of mind worm terror missions should be reduced and traditional terror missions kept up?

Offline Legacy

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1938 on: October 13, 2022, 01:54:31 pm »
That’s a classic issue from vanilla if I remember correctly, I try to make sure I have one by March because it’s so much harder to get them later. I think it would be neat to have the Medic in the Sirius mission carry one but I think they sell for too much to get them that reliably and easily

Unless TWOTS changed it, I think you can always find one during an alien base mission too. I think it’s on the first part but this is all stretching my memory back to 1998
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 02:10:02 pm by Legacy »

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1939 on: October 13, 2022, 02:21:27 pm »
Unless TWOTS changed it, I think you can always find one during an alien base mission too. I think it’s on the first part but this is all stretching my memory back to 1998

You're correct - looking at the itemsets, it's guaranteed that a few medics (or equivalent) carry MC readers in the first stage of base defense missions in TWoTSl. Doing one might be a bit painful without MC protection with all those tasoths and aquatoids, but I think I'll go do the first stage regardless unless something comes up soon.

Edit: yep, found 5 MC readers there.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 07:11:32 pm by psavola »

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1940 on: October 13, 2022, 04:44:28 pm »
Damn it, just got a base defense mission on my primary base while all the best aquanauts were out on a mission, taking almost all of the equipment with them (I suppose you should really trim down the loot pile on your craft..). Luckily enough, it was gillmen and deep ones. Managed to beat them with 6 non-armored and weaponed aquanauts (only one gauss sniper rifle, one laser rifle and several laser carbines plus various grenades) and a huge number of small drones (squid drones with their stun attack were most useful). I think I have in some earlier game also had a base attack while most crew were out on a mission, but I think I reloaded then..
« Last Edit: October 13, 2022, 05:08:28 pm by psavola »

Offline Legacy

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1941 on: October 14, 2022, 07:00:04 am »
Good to hear you made it through that, I’m gonna have to prep my bases just in case I get the same thing.

I had to start over again, and I decided to go with a non-ironman superhuman. The tactical battles are so much more crowded and the firefights are much more intense, I ironically lose less soldiers too. I think I was getting too careless before and SH keeps me on my toes. I’m trying to avoid the temptation to save scum, but I’m also bad at the game. I save at the start of the battle and let myself retry it once or twice if I blow it and get wiped out. It makes for much better practice

Offline Legacy

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1942 on: October 19, 2022, 05:07:47 pm »
For some reason, you can see an alien inside a medium sub from a certain point. The ufo had landed, so it should not be damaged in any way, Maybe a bug in the definion of the medium sub? See screenshot and a save.

I've independently run into this issue as well in the hunter which looks to be the same sub. Not only can I see through the floor to the second floor, the aliens can as well and try to fire repeatedly through the floor at the aquanaut I have standing there. This can be funny if the DPL wielders decide to do the same. I've attached a screenshot and a save file of the instance I see as well in case anyone cares to look into it. My save file isn't iron man if that changes anything, but is still SH


(edit ignore that the sub name is wrong in the files, there are only two medium subs and I still picked the wrong one  :P )
« Last Edit: October 19, 2022, 05:31:18 pm by Legacy »

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1943 on: October 19, 2022, 09:52:25 pm »
I think currently the alien base detection range is slightly smaller than hunter-killer ufos have. (I can't verify this from the rulesets right now, but I'm almost certain that is the case.) This may result in a somewhat unexpected scenario when trying to trigger a reaction from the alien base by moving a single craft within the base radar range (at the edge), waiting for HK to be spawned and then trying to run away (and meanwhile a transport tries to reach the base). But if you have your other crafts too close to the base (yet still outside the base radar range), the spawned HK detects it immediately and switches targets.

I wonder if this and the nasty implications are intended in this case. I thhink it would make sense that  alien bases always would have at least as good radar range as alien craft. This would also correspond to the fact that X-COM bases have way better radars than X-COM craft.

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1944 on: October 20, 2022, 09:43:32 am »
I thhink it would make sense that  alien bases always would have at least as good radar range as alien craft. This would also correspond to the fact that X-COM bases have way better radars than X-COM craft.
Thanks, will do.

Offline Legacy

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1945 on: October 21, 2022, 05:02:03 pm »
Are there any details on what advancing the plot of the game does? I’ve stalled by not researching the church data bank, but I finally bagged a navigator so I’m planning to start pushing that research.

First run where I’ve made exposuits too, and I have to say I love these things

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1946 on: October 21, 2022, 10:00:20 pm »
Are there any details on what advancing the plot of the game does? I’ve stalled by not researching the church data bank, but I finally bagged a navigator so I’m planning to start pushing that research.

First run where I’ve made exposuits too, and I have to say I love these things

You can see "Affects game progression" in the tech tree viewer on the critical ones (one can also search for research prerequisites in ruleset files; this is the only way you can find out how those techs actually affect game progression).

"Church" research branch essentially only gives you access to barracudas (and dependent techs). Going down that tree stops church missions except the attacks on military installation (goodbye easy missions). But getting barracuda as early as possible, to be able to shoot down subs and protect the transports, is crucial. So you'll need to obtain an alien corpse and research it ASAP, to get started on alien containment. The easiest way to capture live aliens after that are stun grenades on land-based missions. In early game, I've also always obtained harpoons with SC ammo and stun ammo, to be able stun aquatoids if an underwater medium/large sub comes up before obtaining a navigator through some other means.

Several other interconnected branches give more for example weaponry (navigator, high navigator, high engineer, bio-drone terrorist being most crucial; you'll also need a freak leader later). You'll also need MC reader,  and examination room from a very large ship is also essential to get anywhere. You'll need to build a couple of biolabs and MC labs in your most essential bases as early as possible.

An aquatoid navigator is rather straightforward to catch (you'll need to be prepared to stun almost every aquatoid in a medium ship and kill the rest). Bio-drones are most easily dealt with with a huge number of stun grenades (or if you get close by, with a tazer). In my RNG, I've always got lobsterman technician before armored gillman engineer; you see lobster technicians on small ships. At this point you might not have sonic yet and obtaining a live one (let alone killing the rest) is very challenging, depending on the landscape. Jellymen weaponry (squeezer to kill lobsters, tangler to capture them) is essentially a requirement. If you have these, I've usually managed a capture without many casualties. How you end up obtaining high navigator (usually enhanced aquatoid) depends a lot on RNG. A terror mission is likely the easiest, but this branch might be significantly delayed (until you have MC protection, i.e. when you can finish the alien lab or barge)

For the main game, you'll need to learn more of nagas, get a naga lord so that you can get to naga city. You'll need to go through the alien dungeon (no sense even trying the second part prior to  sonic tech). You'll need a lobsterman commander as per vanilla. You'll need to learn of the jellymen and go through a jellymen base to get the treaty with the jellymen (capturing a jellyman ruler from the base is enough; I'm not sure if you get the treaty regardless if you clear the base and kill everyone).

There are some more minor things to note (e.g. getting thermal tazer, getting live and dead deep one, etc.), but those should be easy to discover and figure out.

Offline Legacy

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1947 on: October 22, 2022, 06:06:27 am »
Wow that sounds like I have quite a long way to go. And indeed skipping the barracudas has made intercepting anything infeasible as of about September. I’ve been scraping by with land missions especially after getting gauss but haven’t been able to deal with the mind worms yet. I think I’ll have kicked the bucket this run by the end of the year. I think I’m gonna do a run of vanilla UFO next, the TWOTS grind is burning me out. I did have the best run yet at least ;D

It’s a shame the cormorant is so bad it’s not even worth producing, I’ve had a lot more success sticking DUP torpedos on sea masters, and its a couple less things that I have to manufacture myself (another tiring mechanic, imho)

Offline psavola

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1948 on: October 22, 2022, 11:10:50 am »
Wow that sounds like I have quite a long way to go. And indeed skipping the barracudas has made intercepting anything infeasible as of about September. I’ve been scraping by with land missions especially after getting gauss but haven’t been able to deal with the mind worms yet. I think I’ll have kicked the bucket this run by the end of the year. I think I’m gonna do a run of vanilla UFO next, the TWOTS grind is burning me out. I did have the best run yet at least ;D

You'll want barracudas. In addition to interception, aliens have a chance of start bombing your bases in June (I think) unless you can shoot down their recon attempts This has only occurred to me in two games out of about half a dozen, but it's a significant threat regardless.

You must bail out of mind worm missions (except capturing a couple of samples close to your ship with turn 1 and drones) until you have developed a squid drone (requiring a bio-drone corpse; it which can be equipped with laser rifle, and can stay airborne and shoot or stun everyone). Two heavy drones might also be enough but I doubt they have enough ammo to deal with all the critters with the hit/miss rate they have.

Vanilla TFTD can be illustrative. I've watched a number of SH/IM speed runs and the tactics can be useful. Even if you don't try to maximally speed run the game (just skip the missions you don't need), you can finish the vanilla TFTD in less than 10 hours. A very different experience compared to TWoTS. For TWoTS and any sort of comfort you'll require 50 hours at the minimum. Yet I think TWoTS is a rather nice mod because it's not so overly long (and possibly excessively repetitive) as, for example, X-Com Files.

Quote
It’s a shame the cormorant is so bad it’s not even worth producing, I’ve had a lot more success sticking DUP torpedos on sea masters, and its a couple less things that I have to manufacture myself (another tiring mechanic, imho)

I've often built one cormorant to scout ahead so that my triton does not stumble upon an alien base or hunter-killer, or to have an alternative way to delay the mission despawn timer. It's useless as an interceptor (it can wield only a cannon, so anything with longer range weapons can shoot it down).

Offline Nord

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Re: [TFTD] [Expansion] TWoTS+ Release (v.2.51)
« Reply #1949 on: October 25, 2022, 02:46:28 pm »
Version 2.52 is up.
Changelog:
- fixed 2x2 spawn in USO;
- fixed acid torpedo manufacturing;
- fixed knife/vibroknife balance;
- fixed missing USOPedia article;
- fixed Paladin stripping;
- fixed map CTD in martian battleship mission;
- fixed minor bugs;