Author Topic: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?  (Read 4648 times)

Offline clownagent

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Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« on: March 09, 2017, 11:00:04 am »
Why do enemy unconscious units are dying after a few turns?

They have no critical wounds and show the "zzz" symbol.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2017, 11:02:31 am »
If they have stun at 300% or more of their current  HP, they start losing HP due to system shock.

Offline clownagent

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2017, 11:14:04 am »
If they have stun at 300% or more of their current  HP, they start losing HP due to system shock.

Oh, this mechanism I did not know.

How is this defined in the ruleset? I would like to switch it off.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2017, 11:30:34 am »
Yes, it's a new mechanism. I don't know how it's coded, but it's probably in armours.

I haven't played with this option yet, so I can't comment on it. I don't know if it's good or not. Regardless, when the first reaction to a new balancing feature is 'how do I turn it off', then I think it's not a healthy approach - unless it's a really, really BAD feature. But then it should be improved, since just turning it off looks like a straight up cheat code to me.
So what's wrong with it, and how to make it better?

Offline clownagent

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2017, 11:50:30 am »
Yes, it's a new mechanism. I don't know how it's coded, but it's probably in armours.

I haven't played with this option yet, so I can't comment on it. I don't know if it's good or not. Regardless, when the first reaction to a new balancing feature is 'how do I turn it off', then I think it's not a healthy approach - unless it's a really, really BAD feature. But then it should be improved, since just turning it off looks like a straight up cheat code to me.
So what's wrong with it, and how to make it better?

Yes, it is in armors, probably with these negative recovery values.

The problem I have is the following:
I do not understand what it is good for.
I have some unconscious enemies lying around which die "seemingly" randomly. I have no possibility to check if they will die or not.  What should I do to prevent this? Try to heal their stun damage and if they wake up stun and heal them again ... spiralling downward in a never ending circle of tediousness?

Maybe this feature was introduced to prevent "mass stunnings" which is ok, but than it would be better to choose another mechanism: Possibly that all stun weapons do some additional random health damage or something similar.

Anyway, thanks for the information, I will probably switch it off. Maybe other players will enjoy the feature.  :D


Offline legionof1

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2017, 12:01:54 pm »
The only real issue with it, is communication of the status to the player. Aside from the bootypedia article there is nothing to clue the player into its occurrence within the game. And is the player gona spend TU mind probing knocked out foes? is he expected to?

That said the change does make certain weapons like the tesla coil and a handful of others much more narrow in terms of valid targets. Guess that probably the point to balance the use of stuff that is most of the time a one hit disable on weaker targets. Scroll of inqonsensuality sucks extra hard now between guaranteed friendly fire and the sheer power(200+ stun no armor with middling psi)

Though it doesn't matter much if you complete a map quickly nuff after you start over stunning.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2017, 02:46:27 pm »
I asked Meridian for his new stun meter to be configurable to show this, but only for your units, naturally. Leaving critically wounded gals unconscious, in heavy smoke, for 30 turns sometimes, was stupid - you don't treat wounded like this. Hence this new rule. Minor additional reason - to drowning in an underwater mission, or suffocating in a space mission, be possible.

Enemies and civvies are subjected to this rule as well because I see no reason why should they be exempt. As minor graces, it makes the 'perfect stun mission' much harder to pull off, and puts some cushion-soft constraints on stunning civvies.

I'll refrain from judging which weapon got buffed and which nerfed by this; if lethal weapons which were used for stunning are less useful to that end, then good; if Cattle Prod and Stun Baton got some extra attractiveness, that's good too. About the Scroll, well, at that level, you will have the means to completely subdue most low- to average- threat enemy deployments within 4-6 turns so it hardly matters if they start taking 1HP damage per turn - since Scroll doesn't damage health.

« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 02:50:27 pm by Dioxine »

Offline legionof1

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2017, 03:56:49 pm »
If we get a status icon for shock im good with it existing. Actual death underwater and in space if unprotected is good. Weapon adjustments happen just so long as the problems that crop up get addressed if they are truly detrimental.

Tesla coil gets kinda pigeonholed cause most units will go straight into shock on average rolls, making it only sorta safe(still does hp dmg) on things like Mercs, sectopods, and others with exceptional hp pools. Stronger psi based attacks are now unsafe capture tools. Things like manacles and rod of bliss are now questionable to even exist as a tool.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2017, 04:08:56 pm »
Worth adding that if the unit is at >75% HP, the health loss cannot ever exceed 1 HP per turn, so it's basically inconsequential. IMO manacles and rod of bliss are still viable, if not used on a heavily wounded target.
On the other hand, a heavily wounded target gets constant Stun damage anyway, so use of these tools was never required against such targets.

Offline legionof1

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2017, 04:19:04 pm »
Worth adding that if the unit is at >75% HP, the health loss cannot ever exceed 1 HP per turn, so it's basically inconsequential. IMO manacles and rod of bliss are still viable, if not used on a heavily wounded target.
snip
Good to know that makes things alot more resonable then i first surmised. Manacles and rod may still be useful, but there is a bit of a disjoint in there advertised purpose of locking down foes for good without harm since now they easily start the clock ticking on shock.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2017, 04:34:05 pm »
So... can we get a little lightning icon for shocked units instead of the zzz?

Offline juff

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #11 on: March 09, 2017, 05:29:59 pm »
It is only right for enemies to die from system shock. After all, they are only pathetic creatures of meat and bone.

Online Meridian

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2017, 02:04:08 pm »
So... can we get a little lightning icon for shocked units instead of the zzz?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2017, 02:25:13 pm »
Yes, something like this. But why friendlies only? Other indicators are universal; and I think it would lessen the general confusion regarding this mechanics.

Online Meridian

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Re: Enemy unconscious units are dying ?
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2017, 04:14:43 pm »
Yes, something like this. But why friendlies only? Other indicators are universal; and I think it would lessen the general confusion regarding this mechanics.

cos dioxine? I don't care either way...