Author Topic: Early gun balance  (Read 10372 times)

Offline legionof1

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #60 on: August 03, 2018, 06:02:11 am »
If something is not listed in the info screen that means its the vanilla defaults. For example default auto is 7 and snap is 15, falloff is 2 per tile. You can see these defaults by pressing the default button on the info screen

MP5 actually has better then average auto and snap at 11 and 18. So longer effective range in all fire modes, only slightly less accurate snap then most pistols, and 24 rounds to a clip. Downsides less punch per bullet and slower snap then pistols. Not bad for an SMG.

Groza on the other hand is a full rifle so it should be better at longer range. The MP5 has it beat for snap and auto accuracy and speed. Smg vs full rifle so nothing out of place here.

Yeah there are some standout early rifles, mostly for stopping power(nitro), or accuracy in untrained hands(Mosin and .308). Downside is low volume of fire so each low roll on dmg or missed shot is felt that much more when you only fire once a turn. Pick your poison.

Edit:bugger half ninjaed

Offline Sarissofoi

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #61 on: August 03, 2018, 06:23:04 am »
Thanks for fast reply and for answering my questions. I was modding some minor stuff on my own but it was old ago and well I was never really proficient at it.
I checked my soldiers stats and two my most killer soldiers with 50+ kills have 40+ with colt and socom but two other best soldiers have similar stats but with mp5 and groza. So maybe its just a personal bias.
Thanks again for info.
Cheers

Offline legionof1

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #62 on: August 03, 2018, 12:51:50 pm »
Yeah stats like those are fairly common, crappy agents(like the starting roster) do far better with semi accurate high volume of fire then anything else, cause Firing skill only grows if you hit something. if your accuracy is shit more chances are more important then what the hits actually do. Pistols excel at volume of fire without being utterly inaccurate like a minigun.

Offline Sarissofoi

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #63 on: August 03, 2018, 06:23:33 pm »
I would say that the difference in ranges are rather small but difference in rates of fire and accuracy enormous. Especially that early rifles barely offer anything that hit harder than pistols.
But that is fine.

Offline khade

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #64 on: August 04, 2018, 10:02:42 am »
Rifles are the workhorse of militaries everywhere, but at the start your guys barely qualify as police.  They're allowed handguns and cheap weak shotguns because Murica! (X-files is set in the US of A and we seem to be going for that vibe) But police don't generally have access to rifles or bigger guns.  Ideally they should have Kevlar and smoke bombs or flashbangs at the start, but nobody thinks they're actually necessary or useful, and everything useful is delayed.

Given that we're going for an X-files/police procedural style in the early game, I think it makes sense that the handgun is king for so long. 

Maybe this isn't the place to suggest this, but what about early missions where you have to find some item or evidence and get it back to the point of extraction before a certain turn passes, everything not on a green tile is lost, enemy reinforcements are inbound and you don't have the manpower or the mandate to do more.  Thought of that due to the police procedural sentence.  Alternately, if we ever get the ability to have reinforcements actually show up, a secure the location and defend against enemies coming at turn 15 or whatever could be fun.  Still not the place for suggesting it, but whatever.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #65 on: August 04, 2018, 12:59:01 pm »
Rifles are the workhorse of militaries everywhere, but at the start your guys barely qualify as police.  They're allowed handguns and cheap weak shotguns because Murica! (X-files is set in the US of A and we seem to be going for that vibe)

Definitely not the US of A, as attested by many US users who just can't understand why you can't have tanks and machine guns from the beginning when a backwater US police station can. But gameplay has its privileges.
Remember that you are still kinda MiBs, despite your extremely restricted procedures at game start. Getting shotguns is way harder than in the US, but also easier than it would be for regular police. It's a compromise between various countries and playstyles.

But police don't generally have access to rifles or bigger guns.  Ideally they should have Kevlar and smoke bombs or flashbangs at the start, but nobody thinks they're actually necessary or useful, and everything useful is delayed.

Yes, smoke grenades are too useful to be available early on. And flashbangs can't be represent well enough.

Maybe this isn't the place to suggest this, but what about early missions where you have to find some item or evidence and get it back to the point of extraction before a certain turn passes, everything not on a green tile is lost, enemy reinforcements are inbound and you don't have the manpower or the mandate to do more.  Thought of that due to the police procedural sentence.  Alternately, if we ever get the ability to have reinforcements actually show up, a secure the location and defend against enemies coming at turn 15 or whatever could be fun.  Still not the place for suggesting it, but whatever.

I'm not against such ideas, but I'll wait for the reinforcement feature.

Offline Bobwolf

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #66 on: August 06, 2018, 05:44:04 am »
The more I play this mod the more I enjoy it. I always felt that in the OG, you were getting new stuff too fast. In this mod, the lack of really strong gun (at least as far as I know) force you to play differently than in the OG. Once you start to change your tactic of auto shot heavy plasma to a more careful approach, you start to enjoy the mod. I like the fact that you need to use your brain. You need to be patient, when you can of course. You can retreat without too much penalty most of the time.

I only got one surf mission so far and I had to punch to get weapons. It was great but it took a lot of turns.

I think the early gun balance is good.


Offline Toothless Shark

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #67 on: October 25, 2018, 06:50:34 pm »
I just want to say that i love the balance and variety of weapons in this mod. It's great.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #68 on: October 25, 2018, 07:31:29 pm »
I just want to say that i love the balance and variety of weapons in this mod. It's great.

Yay!

Offline HinterDemGlas

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #69 on: December 13, 2018, 12:02:31 am »
Huge fan of the Hunting Rifle in early game: great damage early on, still decent damage later, accurate even with rookies and a full sniper weapon in skilled hands.

My best loadout is precision rifles (Arisaka now, mostly) plus a pistol for close combat. Decimating enemies from beyond their effective range is just that effective, and pistols are devastating up close.

Now in the early midgame(?) I really like Xeno Shield + Mauser. The Wildey is probably better but I love the Mauser aesthetics and it's ludicrously accurate even at mid range. The shield turns small arms fire into a nuissance. With careful positioning and a constant supply of stimulans you can safely knock out most of a cult base, picking off serious threats with highly accurate pistol fire. Then sell your prisoners for profit! I'm losing good men to grenades, though.

Basically skipped over SMGs (except the Calico to quickly execute downed Zs). Automatic rifles feel a bit too chancy for me.

Edit: Adjusted my assertments about the game's length, jeez
« Last Edit: February 04, 2019, 08:09:05 am by HinterDemGlas »

Offline Abyss

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #70 on: January 21, 2019, 08:25:22 pm »
Been lurking around this thread and thought it is a correct place to question the balance of pistols and rifles.
Whereas rifles are considered much more accurate than pistols, there is a number of pistols that have a snap accuracy better than a rifle.
Just to make an example: Magnum-AK
Snap acc: 70% vs 55% equal 15 tiles range

What would you say if someone will suggest stats-increase for the common rifles or nerfing accuracy for the pistols?

 

 

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #71 on: January 22, 2019, 02:58:04 pm »
Been lurking around this thread and thought it is a correct place to question the balance of pistols and rifles.
Whereas rifles are considered much more accurate than pistols, there is a number of pistols that have a snap accuracy better than a rifle.
Just to make an example: Magnum-AK
Snap acc: 70% vs 55% equal 15 tiles range

What would you say if someone will suggest stats-increase for the common rifles or nerfing accuracy for the pistols?

Well, you compared a pistol which is very good with snaps against an old rifle which is very poor with snaps and presented it as typical. Frankly this stinks of data manipulation, though I have no idea what you could gain from this besides the paperthin illusion that you outsmarted the game design. :)

Apart from that, pistols have their strengths. Otherwise, who'd use them? It goes hand in hand with some other gamey decisions which made it through despite some attempts at realism; for example, shotguns work like in many/typical other games, but unlike in real life. And in gaming convention, the Kalashnikov usually has poor accuracy when you're not sniping it. Other rifles are generally better at snap shots.

Offline Abyss

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #72 on: January 22, 2019, 03:09:46 pm »
Frankly this stinks of data manipulation, though I have no idea what you could gain from this besides the paperthin illusion that you outsmarted the game design. :)

Yes I do understand some of the mechanics with like 600 hours of the gameplay otherwise I would be not putting these questions. For your mode it's almost 150 hours. That's a period when a full-fledged child starts to ask the questions. Thanks
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 03:15:57 pm by Abyss »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #73 on: January 22, 2019, 03:13:28 pm »
Read my answer again: you compared a shitty rifle with a high-end pistol.
Also read the rest.

Offline Abyss

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Re: Early gun balance
« Reply #74 on: January 22, 2019, 03:17:18 pm »
Read my answer again: you compared a shitty rifle with a high-end pistol.
Also read the rest.

Pardon me, was rewriting the answer. Yep I've got it in the concept.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2019, 03:26:04 pm by Abyss »