Author Topic: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?  (Read 35956 times)

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #15 on: August 21, 2016, 01:43:54 pm »
I'm not sure I have it in me to grind the same missions over and over and over and over and over again for months or even years before I can get by sheer coincidence the type of enemy I need.
IMO, it's just bad game/mod design to have this requirement. The main tech progresssion path should basically be impossible to miss, whilst the tons and tons of more exotic weapons and lore can be hidden away to make replaying more fun. $0.02 and all that.

I've played another three months by now, and I got a few reticulan trading missions which netted me a few nonconsequential techs and I managed to translate the bible thingie, which again had no further effect. I lost some of my best soldiers on a mercenary mission, these chimps are just too powerful for me just now. But I already have their crap researched anyway back from when I still got mutant pogroms (none occured in the last three months, just crap like Ratmen Rodeo) and even have three rotting away in my prison cells.

I just don't get it, there are so many other things in this mod which you can just blackmarket or for which there are special "missions" (manufacturing projects ala cave hunt), why not for this crucial piece of tech? If power armor pieces are even dropped from dead enemies, I seem not to have encountered ANY such enemies in my game so far. That's kinda ridiculous.



Offline legionof1

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 1900
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #16 on: August 21, 2016, 01:59:29 pm »
@rezaf from what you are describing your particular play through is lacking in trade guild presence in a big way. One faction being absent for extended periods is normal. Alternatives for power armor parts besides marsec are  government generals, and the dual mini gun armed humanist unit. Likely others but I don't recall corpse drops very well.

Also smuggler ships can potentially carry almost any item. Something to try anyway.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5460
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #17 on: August 21, 2016, 02:06:26 pm »
Can't really believe you missed all opportunities to get powered armor parts. Sure, power armor from Pogroms and cargo freights can be rare, but - shooting down large ships will bring them rather quick. Can be hard if the game refuses to spawn any Guild ships at all, but largest Academy ships and bases have these too, Raider Gunships have these, Govt has these (if you're fine with large point penalties)... You can also provoke Crackdowns of any of these 4 factions to ensure power armor spawn... You just have to try instead of saying 'it can't be done'. Sure you can have a dry month or four, but your campaign goes on for years already.

Note that interrogating everyone you find is  crucial to game progress. Good radar coverage and ability to shot down large enemy ships is also crucial, since I didn't want the player to be able to completely ignore aerial interception aspect of the game (unless he is prepared for a reaaaaly long grind) - most good stuff is locked away in big ships.

As for dedicated missions that make up for missed opportunities - sure, you're right on this, but I can't just conjure them from thin air. Late game is still in the works, and none of the late-game factions have been added yet.

@Legion: Good idea with the smuggler ships to carry power armor parts, but since it's a 'corpse' item, which will crash the game due to ownership problems, this needs some extra work to implement. I need to compile a list with all the extra stuff that Smugglers should carry, since they were added over a year ago and things get richer since that time.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #18 on: August 21, 2016, 03:10:16 pm »
Well, since people wrote you ought to get the parts even from dead bodies, can you really say I missed those opportunities if they never even presented themselves?

I can't shoot down most large ships per se - my fighters tend to get shot to pieces - but I've done plenty of large and very large ship missions. The church's sway government missions involve very large ships, for example, and I've done at least half a dozen of those. Problem is, the chuch doesn't have 'em power armor dudes, they sport matrons and maidens and altar boys.
The other large ships I did - as I wrote above - was a mercenary vessel, just loads and loads of 'em flying dudes, no power armor.

I used to get frequent raider missions in Australia, but no longer - haven't seen a raider ship in many many months now. I have not seen the Academy in years. The Guild makes an occasional appearance with a freighter, but only comes with low-level dudes.

"You have to try" is a funny suggestion when there's nothing I CAN try. For half a year, I did almost every mission, the only exceptions being a couple of two person civilian skycars and some heavy mercenary missions (as I wrote, I did the first and decided it's not worth it).
And it's not like I never interrogated anyone. I have done loads of interrogations, everything from Savvy Guys to Star Gods. I have the church's Cydonia codes and their Bible translation.
I have interrogated Government operatives and a General. I have interrogated corrupted Doom soldiers and a Chrysallid ... and so on and so forth. I may have missed some specific types, but I have done plenty, rest assured.

I have almost full global radar coverage, only antarctica and the tip of south america are missing.

Like I said, I don't know if I have what it takes to grind out months doing mundane missions that are just samey, dull and boring at this point just for a chance to maybe, MAYBE get that piece of tech that stupidly locks away all the game's progression.

What this mod would need (I realize this is strictly a pipe dream as it's beyond the current capabilities of OpenXCom and adding it no small task) would be a REAL black market. Where what's on offer is in constant flux. Check frequently, or you might miss that old fighter hull. But if you check frequently, you can get most anything if you're willing to pay. Especially power armor parts should be a no brainer.  Also tank wrecks. I researched all those fancy tanks an eternity ago, but have never been able to build even one because it requires you to have a wreckage that you'll only get in specific and pretty rare circumstances. But again, I realize this is probably impossible to implement - some other solution has to be found for the mod to remain enjoyable and not force it's player into a many months long hiatus in which nothing interesting happens.

Offline legionof1

  • Moderator
  • Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 1900
  • Bullets go that way. Money comes this way.
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #19 on: August 21, 2016, 03:36:53 pm »
Put up a save if you don't mind. Maybe myself or someone else here can provide some better advice if we can look at the exact details of your situation.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #20 on: August 21, 2016, 05:21:43 pm »
This mod hates me.  :'(

So, one of my bases was half-heartedly attacked, and the attackers brought ONE powered armor dude. Got the right research, yay!!

But still no Graduation. Why? No Advanced Chemics. Why? No Security Carapace Armor. Next armor to grind for ...  :'( :'( :'(

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5460
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #21 on: August 21, 2016, 08:57:57 pm »
No Security Carapace Armor. Next armor to grind for ...  :'( :'( :'(

You only need to interrogate Osiron Security or Marsec Security guy to get that one. Well, it's all in the tech tree viewer anyway.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2016, 08:53:48 pm »
Lol, so I grind samey missions for months and months until, finally, the Academy shows up with a Passenger Transport mission.
And 'lo and behold, three Osiron Security onboard, of which I can capture two.
But NO NEW RESEARCH PROJECTS.  :'(

Fun fact: In the meantime, I have however researched Kustom Power Armor. Isn't Carpace Armor supposed to be a prerequesite to that?
« Last Edit: August 26, 2016, 09:03:32 pm by rezaf »

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5460
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2016, 02:46:17 pm »
Looks like you have carapace armor researched for ages.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2016, 06:26:25 pm »
Indeed. Must've overlooked it - this mod (for better and for worse) just has way too much content for the good old X-Com UI to deal with, even with the improvements that have been made.

I ended up parsing the savegame itself, and as it turns out, what I'm actually missing is a Ghoul interrogation. Now, where the heck do you even encounter Ghouls?
Are they part of the Doom-themed pogroms (I only had a single one of those in three years of ingame play)?

One of the gals that have been with me from the very beginning says in her kill log she killed two Ghouls, but that's all the reference I can find about them.

Do I read the tech-parser right, I should get Poisons & Acids "free" when I interrogate a ghoul, but alternatively I can research it from Primitive Weapons and Animal Poison.
For that, I lack Animal Poison. For many months in the early game, Megascorpion Hunts were a staple, and I still have about 50 corpses stashed away - how comes this never netted me the Animal Poison research? Or do you get it from someplace else?

Edit: Ah, from checking ingame, it seems I'd have to have captured a live specimen and got it from butchering it. Looks like I never managed to capture one of 'em buggers alive, and now I haven't seen one in two years.  :(
« Last Edit: August 28, 2016, 06:33:52 pm by rezaf »

Offline ivandogovich

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2381
  • X-Com Afficionado
    • View Profile
    • Ivan Dogovich Youtube
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #25 on: August 28, 2016, 06:56:50 pm »
Indeed. Must've overlooked it - this mod (for better and for worse) just has way too much content for the good old X-Com UI to deal with, even with the improvements that have been made.

I ended up parsing the savegame itself, and as it turns out, what I'm actually missing is a Ghoul interrogation. Now, where the heck do you even encounter Ghouls?
Are they part of the Doom-themed pogroms (I only had a single one of those in three years of ingame play)?

One of the gals that have been with me from the very beginning says in her kill log she killed two Ghouls, but that's all the reference I can find about them.

Do I read the tech-parser right, I should get Poisons & Acids "free" when I interrogate a ghoul, but alternatively I can research it from Primitive Weapons and Animal Poison.
For that, I lack Animal Poison. For many months in the early game, Megascorpion Hunts were a staple, and I still have about 50 corpses stashed away - how comes this never netted me the Animal Poison research? Or do you get it from someplace else?

Edit: Ah, from checking ingame, it seems I'd have to have captured a live specimen and got it from butchering it. Looks like I never managed to capture one of 'em buggers alive, and now I haven't seen one in two years.  :(

Ghouls join in Bandit Pogroms along with Highwaymen and Blood Dogs.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #26 on: August 28, 2016, 07:16:36 pm »
Well, obviously I haven't seen a bandit pogrom in a long time then either.

I stil don't think I'm educated enough to join in the higher tier discussions elsewhere on these forums, but, just an honest innocent question, wouldn't it be thinkable to make "Cave Hunt" like projects to net you the most basic techs neccessary to progress in the game?
They could unlock only after you progressed way down an alternative research branch, but extremely basic stuff like Animal Poison research shouldn't stop the progress of your game in it's tracks (unless the RNG gods provide you with just the right type of mission, which might happen in 30 seconds or in 30 years of ingame time), should it?

Offline nrafield

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #27 on: August 28, 2016, 09:18:58 pm »
Wait, you need to actually INTERROGATE a Ghoul to progress in tech tiers, not just Toxiguns? That doesn't seem right.   I think Ghouls should probably be more common, maybe have one in Ratmen Village as going there becomes unrewarding rather quickly unless you get apples. These days going on a pogrom is rather early on.

Offline Dioxine

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 5460
  • punk not dead
    • View Profile
    • Nocturnal Productions
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #28 on: August 29, 2016, 03:45:57 pm »
Wait, you need to actually INTERROGATE a Ghoul to progress in tech tiers

No. You need to complete any one of 5 interrogations, one of them being Ghoul, to get Tac Armor.

As for animal poison, the Megascorpion hunt is not only available quickly, it does lampshade the fact you can get the poison and research it, in advance.

Wider access to basic tech is a good idea, I'm trying to always add new options.

Offline rezaf

  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
Re: So ... I ran out of stuff to research. What now?
« Reply #29 on: August 29, 2016, 08:38:27 pm »
In my case I need Poisons & Acids though. And there doesn't seem to be a way to get it this far in the game.

Is there even a chance for Bandit Pogroms or more Megascorpion Hunts at this point?