Author Topic: Weapon Discussion Thread  (Read 33578 times)

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2016, 02:59:06 pm »
I also did most of the raids with the Pachyderm, though mostly with the B or C team.  Exactly for this reason:

Curses, hoisted by my own petard (or when berserk mininukes go wrong):

https://i.imgur.com/zIgLiPH.png

I like to think of it as an extreme risk vs. reward situation: are the gals and equipment I brought with risking a beserk baby nuke for 2 mil in loot?

@KateMicucci: Yes, yes, and yes on the ol' carbine, smartrifle, and slugthrower.  I love any rifle that can aimed shot twice per turn, and the firepower of the slugthrower is brilliant.  Perfect for standing to the side of a door and blowing away anything coming out with that accurate snap shot.

Was anyone underwhelmed by the XG weapons besides the chaingun?  They're a nice firepower upgrade and all, but I found them rather quickly sent to the security details of secondary bases and forgotten.


Offline Dioxine

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2016, 03:32:33 pm »
I like to think of it as an extreme risk vs. reward situation: are the gals and equipment I brought with risking a beserk baby nuke for 2 mil in loot?

Just don't give it to anyone of Bravery 90 or less, to be super-sure. Problem solved. You'll need to train Bravery a bunch first, but there are outfits with +20 or +30 bonus. With 90 Bravery, you can pretty much ignore even psi-induced fear.

Also thanks to everyone writing, this thread is really helpful and nice to read :)

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2016, 03:46:25 pm »
Just don't give it to anyone of Bravery 90 or less, to be super-sure. Problem solved. You'll need to train Bravery a bunch first, but there are outfits with +20 or +30 bonus. With 90 Bravery, you can pretty much ignore even psi-induced fear.

It's not my hands with the baby nukes I'm worried about, it's the panicked GO who is firing blindly at the demons in the smoke :P

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2016, 07:19:06 pm »
Also thanks to everyone writing, this thread is really helpful and nice to read :)

Translation:  "The Nerf-Hammer is Back in Business, Baby!" ;)

But yeah, this has been a very informative thread, and I've been slow to chime in.   It has been great that some of the weapons touted are ones I never use (nerf gun, etc), and this goes to show the richness of the diversity that Dioxine has built into this mod.

Some general thoughts. 

Bows:
In my recent play, I have stepped away from bows entirely.  Early scale mail gals benefited greatly from them for early stat growth and were a solid core of my early game cadre.   I think the hunting bow is my preferred weapon in the series.  The ability to get off three shots per turn is terrific, and sniping over the Airbus/Car/Pachyderm is a great tactic.  I missed the ability to use fire arrows, but that just made these even better imo.  (Btw: how about the ability to make agua arrows for the combat bow say after Chemistry.  These require Chitin as the arrow heads would be fashioned from Lobster shells, and impregnated with some caustic chemical (maybe it causes a bit more morale damage too)).  The longbow suffers in its time restraints and with my play only gets off about a shot per turn, with that shot often not dropping the target.  I know Meridian is still using these as a stable weapon in his fairly homogenous arsenal and they are working well for him, so its probably just my playstyle that puts me off them.  I will say that my impression of bows was probably heavily influence by the "its practically impossible to hit things on the diagonal" bug that I believe should be resolved now.  In my next run I'll give these more of a try.  And also, I'm a believer in the Future Bow but haven't been fortunate enough to unlock them in my current run.

Pistols:
Early game I love the Black Marches!! Nice ammo capacity, fairly common (decent ammo resupply) and that 2-shot auto is great for the upclose "crap, my handle missed, I'll try to take this guy down with my last remaining tu's" moments.  The holdout has been useful in early skimpy outfits for last gasp efforts and also some general marksmanship practice.  I pretty much avoid all other pistols as too underpowered after this, until I get the Smart Pistol.  These are terrific weapons, and everyone gets one for a good chunk of mid game.  Perfect for reaction training on Scorp Hunts. :)  All the self powered lasers are terrific, with the Scorchy becoming an excellent side arm in mid game/late game.  It can breach mansion walls, so makes a great tool there.

SMGs:
Early on, anything can be good. Assault SMGs were very solid for me, with nice hits as decent ranges, and the burst great for up close finishing.  Blackmarch is nice too.  However, the SMG with its 2X1 is great.  With the advent of Incendiary munition, this becomes a staple for my squads.  Snipers get them for the first steps to the roof of the bonny.  They can auto fire at enemies spotted, but they are also great for lighting up night maps.  Burst fire upclose with incendiary is often a terrific finisher, and this is a solid side arm for all of late early through mid game.  The new addition of the Spikey looks awesome too, but I'm not sure how often I'd chose the melee over an autoburst if I was serious about downing someone. I think the Linux branch is really cool and I like the Origami's melee hit sound. The Deathblossom with API is a solid favorite for many of the reasons above and is often kitted out with my Shield basher.  I put one of these gals on the Jetbike and soloed many civ traffic runs, as well as the early game missions, (tower, outpost, rodeo, warehouse, etc).  API lets me light up the terrain, and takes down foes quick, and because its a one-hander there is no aim penalty.  I used it so much, I created hand sprites for it to enrich my play.  The king of SMGs however, for me, is the Cougar.  As soon as I can, everyone gets one.  It only needs 2x1 slots so it becomes the new Pistol for Everyone.  Except its not. Not a pistol. Its a hungry, death spewing, instrument of mayhem and carnage.  I just gave my new "Mansion Express" crew a workout with these.  The auto shots reliable chew through mansion wall, and I took down many foes by targeting them through the walls and letting them rip.  With the  first couple shots taking down the walls, I'd often get a hit or two with the remainder of the burst.  Time costs, good aim, decent ammo capacity. These are just so solid.  In the mansion run, I ran out of ammo a few time due to my flagrant use of them to breach instead of using my rippers, but I carried a reload for everyone so this was never a problem.  As far as energy/higher tier smgs: The XG Assault seems nice for its snaps, but at 3x1 it feels like it competes with rifles in this slot.  Ret Plasma guns have been great for dealing with early mercs for me, and the assault laser is a great weapon to pick up in early pogroms as an "in battle upgrade" if you run across them.  The plasma subrifle is nice if you can unlock it early, as it can also be a nice merc counter.

Rifles.
Hunting rifle/scoped rifle/ scoped carbine. All terrific for early game.  Once I get PS ammo, the Battle Rifle becomes the main staple in the arsenal. Anyone who isn't specialized gets one.  Good aim, good stopping power, gun butt attack for stunning, its just such a solid fire arm. Great for early game, and into mid game.  Of course all of the previous discussions of Gauss Muskets are dead on. Its deadly, its lovely, its solid.  I often up-gear to it for those "tougher missions."   The Smart Rifle is solid, but I find I've often specialized my crews out by that point, and only have one or two "general troopers" that might use it. I pretty much ignore lasers until I can get the self powered versions.  Looted Stingys from Siberia were solid for a good part of mid-game.  Very nice range, hits often.   I've never messed with the Eurolas-rifles, put off by their price tag, but they look solid.  I know one player who rushes for them in early game then uses them to dominate.  I like the idea of the XG Rifle, as I can supply my own ammo, but I haven't used them much.  Of course plasma weapons, once available become terrific in their own right.

Sniping systems.
The good old sniper rifle is a terrific weapon.  It only gets replace by the Custom Snipin Gun.  Two rounds, are twice as juicy.  I almost always use this mode with these weapons.  My feeling is that the first round may not kill, but it may do enough Armor damage to let the second round finish.  This may not be born out in actual game mechanics, but that is what I like to imagine in my own head cannon. :)  Sniper Gauss: Awesome. Its the up-gun for snipers for those tough missions.  I've worn down tanks with these, downed many power armored foes too.  Its draw back: Overkill. ;)  I'm just bringing some Bossars online to play with their auto fire, so that should be fun.  So far, I've not run into any Energy weapon systems that I consider a good sniper tool.  I've used a stingy as an alternate for my snipers (ie, scorp hunts, etc) but nothing as a main gun.

Heavy weapons.
There is little so satisfying as firing your HMG through 4 shanty buildings to vaporize a rat on the other side of the map. ;)  The penetrating power of this tried and true system is often worth the hassel of getting into firing position the turn before.  The Heavy Gauss is a great counter to Power Armor, especially when the muzzle is placed in the backplate immediately before pulling the trigger. ;)  I love grabbing these as battlefield loot, and running around with them.  Just drop them at the end of the turn if you are over burdened.  Auto lasers, are nice for the same reason.  The Fatty, is a great tool once you get it. 20 round bursts shred terrain and foes alike.  Not a fan of the Heay Laser other than for parts.  The mortal is solid, but I not employed it recently.  The 90 power felt like it often left heavy targets (tanks, power armor) still up.  The other place I'd look to use it is clustered enemie: great to knock down 3 at a time, but typically I play on medium difficult and I don't often get that target density.  The tornado is a great alternative but its so heavy I can't even use it right now. :(  RPG/Rockets, etc:  Panzerfausts are really king for a long time.  I do like the quad launcher at times, but have not had the bravery to employ the dragons much.   As far as the Advanced Launcher goes, what I really want it to do is have two waypoints.  This will come when the OXCE version catches up to the nightly a bit more, as this is in the main branch.  (As a side note, this will make the Sentry Gun a viable tool as well).  The recoiless rifle is certainly nice for its heavy power too! For early firesupport though, I still love the grand old Assault Cannon.  Runt Duds/ Adventurer gear with Exploding/Superconducting rounds are terrific.  I have a hard time figuring out when to move to the Grenade Launcher.  At some point, forested maps become such a hassle for me that I move from indirect fire weapons to almost exclusively direct fire weapons.  The GL suffers because of this.  I do like that its rounds upgrade, but I often don't employ them.  The same for the Auto Grenade Launcher.  I think I've been put off by the weight or something, but I never do use these.

Squad Auto Fire Support Weapons
The early Boarding gun is very solid per all the earlier discussion.  The custom shooty gun is amazing, as is the Super Shooty gun for the walls of lead and shear mayhem it can deliver.  Auto-guns, and Machine guns, Spit fires etc, just feel under powered.  Even the Gyro-stabilized auto gun feels like a waste of tech because the hitting power of the slugs are is just too light. 

Under used:
LACC, Auto Cannon, Light Cannon:  they never seem to make a big impression on my so I tend to pass on equipping them.

Never Tried:
Mining Laser & Rail Driver: has anyone found these useful?

Also worth mentioning: 
Fusion Torch!  My breaching tool of choice for Cruiser Engine Nacelles!  Perfect for this.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #34 on: August 11, 2016, 07:52:15 pm »
I also did most of the raids with the Pachyderm, though mostly with the B or C team.  Exactly for this reason:

I like to think of it as an extreme risk vs. reward situation: are the gals and equipment I brought with risking a beserk baby nuke for 2 mil in loot?

@KateMicucci: Yes, yes, and yes on the ol' carbine, smartrifle, and slugthrower.  I love any rifle that can aimed shot twice per turn, and the firepower of the slugthrower is brilliant.  Perfect for standing to the side of a door and blowing away anything coming out with that accurate snap shot.

Was anyone underwhelmed by the XG weapons besides the chaingun?  They're a nice firepower upgrade and all, but I found them rather quickly sent to the security details of secondary bases and forgotten.

I think you misunderstand; two guys on the ship with mininukes panicked and blew up every last tile around the elevator, lol.

The mission itself that the screenshot was taken from was a complete, casualty free success.

As for the XG weapons, what are those again?

Ivan's post will take some time to digest so I'll get around to it later.

Offline ohartenstein23

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #35 on: August 11, 2016, 08:01:35 pm »
I think you misunderstand; two guys on the ship with mininukes panicked and blew up every last tile around the elevator, lol.

The mission itself that the screenshot was taken from was a complete, casualty free success.

As for the XG weapons, what are those again?

Ivan's post will take some time to digest so I'll get around to it later.

Ah, I missed that detail when I was looking at it on my phone.

XG weapons are the manufacturable version of Gauss weapons, though they perform more like upgraded versions of smartrifles, smartpistols, and smartguns, with a lighter version of the slugthrower added to the mix.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #36 on: August 11, 2016, 08:41:13 pm »
heh.  Just noticed:  I left out shotguns from my list.  Thats about right. I pretty much ignore shot guns anyways.  In the first month or two, they can be nice in shanties because they are great for breaching these fragile structures, but otherwise, I kinda ignore them.

Offline LuigiWhatif

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2016, 02:23:02 am »
Most of my choices have been mentioned.  Battle Rifles were my go-to for a while before I got enough Gauss Muskets, and then when I upgraded to plasma I still kept some Gauss.  I used the boarding gun and its upgrades for a long time.  I had a few lasers scattered in my ranks, but I only dedicated to the Battle Laser and MP Lascannon.  My sniper was the the usual Sniper Rifle -> Custom -> Gauss progression and I always kept a bowgal and Grenade launcher for arc support.  I preferred grenades over direct fire explosives, and my grenadiers eventually got Disks O'Death.

Otherwise, I was a big fan of Power Maces.  Their stun is overkill for low-level enemies but I just kept a handle on my gals.  I was also a fan of Tesla Coils.  They functioned as plasma submachineguns for my close quarters troops.  I'm actually pretty sure I had better weapons by the endgame, but I liked them too much to abandon them.  Shotguns always had a place.  Early on I'd give one or two to my rookies and have them run up to enemies.  By endgame I'd have veterans with Flechette Multicannons and Plasma Blunderbusses.  I play with Voodoo power improvement on, so Ghost Daggers were pretty common.  I actually used those acid bagpipes for a while, but I lost it in an explosion and by the time I got more I already had Disks.  I also recall a past game where a Gal with a Hellgun was one of my best.  I actually haven't played the last two updates, so I'm looking forward to trying the new stuff.

Offline Arthanor

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2016, 06:43:32 am »
Everyone has such a different approach, I'm impressed. Kudos to Dioxine for creating such variety!

One of my favourite setup, which I forgot to mention, is auto-cannons with gas ammo, knockout grenades and revenant/juggernaut armor. Gas ammo murders most things while leaving loot and gals intact, knockouts get you all the slaves you want if you're too lazy/they are too far to get there.

@Ivan: The tornado rocket mortar is meant to be used while wearing loader armor, which I believe is even a pre-req for it. Loader armor, TRM, reload and Bozar is a go to setup for me, for one gal per major craft. The TRM is well worth dedicating one gal to it, and the Bozar is good for taking potshots when you don't need complete obliteration of a target. Both weapons need two hands, which is annoying, but they also both don't need so many TUs that you can't drop one, pick up the other and then shoot. I wish loader armor could overcome the 2h requirement, due to its improved stabilization gyros or something, as that would make it even more awesome.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #39 on: August 12, 2016, 08:21:57 am »
I second Ivan's call out of shotgun class weaponry; they range from mediocre to straight up trash. Never used em, never will.

I haven't gotten to buildable Gauss, advanced lasers or plasma yet, so mind that I haven't quite yet tasted the weaponry rainbow.

MC is broken as usual, albeit not quite to the extent it once was; nonetheless I refuse to use it, just as I will not use Blaster Bombs.

Love Ghost Daggers even without VD strength training (that's cheating IMO since it allows you to overcome the 60 cap so far as I'm aware) they are extremely powerful for their size, weight and TU cost. Plate Armour Tower Shields are amazing for captures and UFO raids.

As other VD weaponry goes, big fan of the wands; all of them are extremely useful. TK Projector is alright, but I feel it needs some love: more accuracy (perhaps accuracy being a squared function of VD skill), more power, and unlimited range, with power falling off outside of an effective range. Seduction is great, despite the immunity many enemies have (though they usually make sense and are intuitive; Slave AI piloted tanks give no shit about yo titties no matter how exquisite).


Agree with Scoped/Hunting/Carbine being great, reliable weapons early on; I used them extensively.


Never used pistols outside of the Zapper and Gauss Pistol (not enough stopping power/lethality for the downsides). Never used SMGs (rifles are basically better in every way that matters).
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 01:46:51 am by Surrealistik »

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2016, 11:38:38 pm »
Ghost daggers are officially a favourite weapon of mine since they destroyed with casual ease the fucktons of heavy armour at the Siberian base + Solid Snaking enemies for days with Stormy Armour.

Offline KateMicucci

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #41 on: August 15, 2016, 07:40:31 am »
What armors do people use? I'm moving into late game now and feel more and more overwhelmed by the number of choices.

Offline Surrealistik

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #42 on: August 15, 2016, 08:36:06 am »
Not quite into the late game, but I've become a big fan of the Stormy armour (apparently looted from a Smuggler's vessel). Thus far though, Plate is my number one choice in terms of both actual usage and overall approval; usually guarantees survival from at least one plasma or gauss hit, and often can withstand multiple hits, while featuring immunity to virtually all light-medium power weapons. In general, the best armours are typically the ones that feature the highest armour values/best resistances because it means fewer chance of deaths/long hospital stays when the RNG goes against you/Black Swan event comes along as it inevitably will in the long run. Seductress also gets an honourable mention.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2016, 08:26:44 pm by Surrealistik »

Offline nrafield

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #43 on: August 16, 2016, 09:09:54 am »
Most gals early on get a Swimsuit as they often have low Energy, especially if they also have unimpressive Firing, Throwing accuracy, Bravery, or Strength. I often wind up using these as cannon fodder, can't be sure that there won't be an enemy hiding with a Rail Driver/Recoilless Rifle/Heavy Plasma hiding in a corner which will instantly take out the gal with the rare suit of heavy armor. I use Tac Armor for them for most part, as it's relatively easy to get, and while not a cure-all for enemies with better weapons, it helps to reduce the fatailty rate from 90%+. Kinda like the Personal Armor from X-COM.

Offline LuigiWhatif

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Re: Weapon Discussion Thread
« Reply #44 on: August 16, 2016, 11:02:47 am »
When I last played I had a pretty set strategy.  Very early I had most of my units in Scout and Adventurer outfits.  My high reaction gals were given Rags for their minor reaction boost and my snipers were in Brainer outfits so they could stand in smoke.  My medic used Runt armor to carry x-grog.

After some progress, Tac Vests were my default for rookies.  Most of my standard gals were in Tac Armor, while high-reactions would use Mesh and most snipers would upgrade to Heavy Armor.  My top sniper would use early hover equipment to get a good vantage point.  Throwing and melee would be in Amazon, with and melee upgrading to Xeno as soon as possible.

When I got to blue armor, I'd give Stormy to my high reaction gals and Dragonfly to the top sniper.  Gals with bows would stay in Amazon while the rest would also get Stormy when I got Disk's O'Death.  Melee gals would upgrade to Revenant then Brute as soon as resources allowed.  Defender and Guardian would be the default for my normal gals, and rookies would get Tac Armor if I had a surplus or stick with vests otherwise.

Obviously by endgame I'd get my gals in Assault and Annihilator as soon as possible.  I'd also have a single unit in Bio-armor with a Blaster Launcher in her backpack.

For special armors, I had one Nurse early on and then two Nurses/Saviors after getting the Bonny.  I only used the Seductress on one gal, but she was one of my best units.  Ghosts were sprinkled through my forces.  I really just considered them another melee gal and while I did like their power, I never had more than two at a time.  I only used Novice until I got Witch, and with Witch I had two when I got it and three when I got the... Leviathan I think it was.

I've actually never used Plate.  Most of my games I played back when it had the old formula, and the one game I played with the new formula I had such a drought of Deep Ones that by the time I could make one I had already started on Annihilators.  I also never looked into the Swimsuit line.  Though I haven't played in a while so maybe my pattern will be shaken up next time.
« Last Edit: August 16, 2016, 11:04:40 am by LuigiWhatif »