[DONE] Salary and maintenance for items

[khade]

If we get the ability to manufacture engineers and scientists, will runts and brainers start cheaper and with lower maintenance? Might need to be less effective too, though I'm sad to bring that up.

[Surrealistik]

Such mercenaries as you describe are planned, but they're not these ones (not Mercs) - so I don't want to invest into something that would be temporary.

Yeah, I think adding some Workshop projects to upgrade/rebuild both Mercs and Advisors (and maybe dogs as well) is an option (although I can hardly think about any Merc upgrade that won't automatically make him an universal soldier - already his only weakness is short-range weaponry; also, Advisors would have to sacrifice either medic bag or mind probe to get psi). I will add this to the list. An ideal solution would be a possibility to manufacture soldiers (and possibly also engineers and scientists).

A summary of the Merc's glaring weaknesses:

#1: Weak armour by the mid-late game.
#2: Weak to VooDoo
#3: Can't use VooDoo
#4: Can't use grenades/indirect fire
#5: Limited range
#6: Generally inferior to developed gals
#7: Weak weapon by mid-late game

Also wouldn't it be possible to upgrade the Advisor Mind Probe to have MC and Panic Unit functions?

[legionof1]

I would disagree with point 1. Everything sucks armour wise for a fairly large portion of the game. Armors only point after a certain level of opposition is to reduce downtime and deaths not block injury outright. In that regard the commando has a leg up do to its HWP staus

[Surrealistik]

I would disagree with point 1. Everything sucks armour wise for a fairly large portion of the game. Armors only point after a certain level of opposition is to reduce downtime and deaths not block injury outright. In that regard the commando has a leg up do to its HWP staus

I wouldn't. Plate is better than what the MCs have on offer, and by the mid-late you will be able to get it even with Guild Engineer interro being a prereq.

The real advantage you're talking about is the lack of downtime when they eat injuries (though by mid-late, you should have an ample pool of gals to cycle in), not the relative strength of their armour.

[BetaSpectre]

Mercenaries should have monthly upkeep they are mercenaries.

Even with a mind probe I feel like it would make more sense that an Adviser ought to increase score at the end of each mission, a bit like 10 more for the extra recognition of the gal's events for more notoriety.

[Surrealistik]

Mercenaries should have monthly upkeep they are mercenaries.

Sure, but they should be made scalable and worth taking.

Even with a mind probe I feel like it would make more sense that an Adviser ought to increase score at the end of each mission, a bit like 10 more for the extra recognition of the gal's events for more notoriety.

Sounds good.

[Meridian]

UI changes attached.

[Solarius Scorch]

Nice!
This gave me some semi-humorous ideas for "other employees":

Accountant. Reduces base maintenance by 5% (buildings only). Each subsequent accountant in a given base gives diminishing returns. Requires mid-level tech (after School Graduation) and some sort of office.

Masseuse. Reduces downtime due to combat stress, if it ever gets introduced. Requires some medical and basic voodoo research.

Master Chef. Required for some advanced cuisine and the Queen Palace.

It would be ideal if such people could be produced either from Brainers or Runts - think specialization.

[Arthanor]

Can we get doctors to staff the surgery room and actually heal people too? I don't care if I have to assign gals to the surgery room at the expense of training (you already can't train if you're wounded, I think), but it would be nice to reduce some of those 80 days injuries!

Make health care expensive, sure, but I would still welcome it! Something like surgery room can take 2 doctors (it replaces the brainers) and each doctor can treat 5 patients at a time, maybe? Doctor salary is obviously higher than brainer.

[Dioxine]

A summary of the Merc's glaring weaknesses:

#1: Weak armour by the mid-late game.
#2: Weak to VooDoo
#3: Can't use VooDoo
#4: Can't use grenades/indirect fire
#5: Limited range
#6: Generally inferior to developed gals
#7: Weak weapon by mid-late game

Maybe a summary of Merc's glaring advantages, then?
#1: Nigh-invincible armor against anything below laser-class weaponry, including gas weapons
#2: No heal time
#3: No barracks space
#4: Flying
#5: Can't get better night vision than his
#6: Main weapon can reliably destroy anything short of a tank or power armor (if you have the skill to use it)
#7: Offhand weapon can one-hit-stun anything short of power armor
#8: Generally superior to undeveloped gals
#9: Fearless, thus Psi less dangerous.
#10: Almost immune to own weapon, and high-end armors are immune to his weapon too, thus Psi less dangerous.

You say it's not worth it. I say maybe yes, maybe no. The goal behind introducing him is, thus, fulfilled. From practice, I've succesfully used 4 of them (backed by 8 swabbies and 2 veterans) to repel a Star God raid on my hideout. Nothing clears a corridor like a big guy with a big shotgun.

[Surrealistik]

@ Arthanor: Yeah, it always bothered me that the Surgery Room can't be used for healing. I'm not sure if having a separate role like 'Doctor' is necessary though. The way I'd probably work it is you'd have an interface for assigning Brainers to heal wounded Gals, as though you were assigning them to research; the more Brainers assigned to a wounded Gal, the faster she heals. Brainers assigned in this way obviously can't do research so that's your opportunity cost.

Maybe a summary of Merc's glaring advantages, then?
#1: Nigh-invincible armor against anything below laser-class weaponry, including gas weapons
#2: No heal time
#3: No barracks space
#4: Flying
#5: Can't get better night vision than his
#6: Main weapon can reliably destroy anything short of a tank or power armor (if you have the skill to use it)
#7: Offhand weapon can one-hit-stun anything short of power armor
#8: Generally superior to undeveloped gals
#9: Fearless, thus Psi less dangerous.
#10: Almost immune to own weapon, and high-end armors are immune to his weapon too, thus Psi less dangerous.

You say it's not worth it. I say maybe yes, maybe no. The goal behind introducing him is, thus, fulfilled. From practice, I've succesfully used 4 of them (backed by 8 swabbies and 2 veterans) to repel a Star God raid on my hideout. Nothing clears a corridor like a big guy with a big shotgun.

#1: Gals can get comparable (and better) armour.

#2: Yes, but you shouldn't be wracking up injuries in the first place outside of terrible RNG. The real advantage here is that they enable more aggressive/reckless play vs weak opponents.

#3: Minor benefit excepting production bases. As I said, they have exactly one (1) enduring niche, and that's on base defense... but since you're hitting them with a big maintenance cost without providing anything in return, that niche will be threatened.

#4: Gals can fly; not an exclusive benefit.

#5: Largely irrelevant (honestly, you are insane to not spam lighting everywhere on Night missions vs enemies that can actually harm you short of having NV on everyone that will see frontline combat), but it's possible to get comparable NV.

#6: The same is true with most of the weapons the Gals use, though they are also capable of fielding tank busters besides and can kill effectively at far longer ranges and without even needing LoS. This is not an actual pro.

#7: Gals can get things that do this.

#8: Sure.

#9: Fearlessness is nice but a small benefit in practice vs 50+ Bravery. Psi remains incredibly dangerous with these guys; that 38 VD STR with no skill is a big liability, especially when you consider how close they have to get to the action (and subsequently how much more powerful and likely to work MC becomes).

#10: Scale and even Plate can get rocked by this weapon; unless your dudes are all outfitted in power armour (in which case why the hell are you still using Commandos), the Boom Gun is dangerous to have turned on you.

[Meridian]

Come on, just stop this non-sense!... if mercs were better you wouldn't use your gals, you would just use mercs.

Dioxine wants you/us to use mercs as utilities... otherwise the game would be called MercenarieZ, not PirateZ.

[Surrealistik]

Come on, just stop this non-sense!... if mercs were better you wouldn't use your gals, you would just use mercs.

Dioxine wants you/us to use mercs as utilities... otherwise the game would be called MercenarieZ, not PirateZ.

Sure. My point is not to make Mercs better, but to make Mercs scalable and worth a damn for more than a brief window of the game, particularly after they get hit with a nerf that requires you pay a substantial monthly upkeep which threats their value on base defense in your production facilities.

[Meridian]

Sure. My point is not to make Mercs better, but to make Mercs scalable and worth a damn for more than a brief window of the game, particularly after they get hit with a nerf that requires you pay a substantial monthly upkeep which threats their value on base defense in your production facilities.

Mercs are items... items cannot be made scalable, they don't have the capability to improve. That's a game engine fact.

You can completely redo them as new soldier type and make them scalable... but again the game would then be renamed to MercenarieZ. If you don't find them useful enough, don't use them... I have never used them either, just like dozens of other things I find weak. There's too many things in the game, they cannot all be equal, some must be weaker, some stronger.

[Surrealistik]

Mercs are items... items cannot be made scalable, they don't have the capability to improve. That's a game engine fact.

You can completely redo them as new soldier type and make them scalable... but again the game would then be renamed to MercenarieZ. If you don't find them useful enough, don't use them... I have never used them either, just like dozens of other things I find weak. There's too many things in the game, they cannot all be equal, some must be weaker, some stronger.

Allowing inventory access or merely having them equipped with better weapons would go a long way without actually making them better than veteran gals.

While I understand that there will always be stronger and weaker options, it is best that everything have a strong and clear niche, and the number of interesting choices maximized.