Author Topic: Re: The X-Com Files - 3.2: The Colors of Sin  (Read 1993523 times)

Offline Dreams_Of_Cheese

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5070 on: February 15, 2023, 09:22:54 am »
This feels like a question that's been asked, but I can't find it on the search. I'm trying to make a particular gun function as a gun and as a flashlight just to ease inventory management a little bit for night missions. Is this possible, or am I bumping into an engine limitation or something?

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5071 on: February 15, 2023, 10:24:28 am »
This feels like a question that's been asked, but I can't find it on the search. I'm trying to make a particular gun function as a gun and as a flashlight just to ease inventory management a little bit for night missions. Is this possible, or am I bumping into an engine limitation or something?

This sounds more like a general modding question related to OXC(E) and not something that is related to XCF. Why post this here and not in the dedicated "Help" subforum?

Also, when asking for modding related help it is generally beneficial to explain/list what you've tried so far that isn't working as expected. That way others don't have to guess what the issue might be.

That aside, a good starting point would be to look at the existing item you're trying to copy/modify in conjunction with the ruleset reference :
https://www.ufopaedia.org/index.php/Ruleset_Reference_Nightly_(OpenXcom)#Naming.2C_Categorization_and_Storage

Look at the flare item you're probably using as a reference. What defines the light output of this item? For that matter, what makes an item act like a flare?
« Last Edit: February 15, 2023, 10:34:29 am by krautbernd »

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5072 on: February 15, 2023, 11:50:49 am »
I don't think it can be done. Maybe there's some y-script magic that might help, but a cursory look didn't show anything one could use for that. I didn't even see a way to dynamically change armour lighting, for that matter.

Best ask in the y-script subforum.

You can have a melee weapon that is a flare/flashlight, as shown by the Mag-Lite.

Offline PPQ

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5073 on: February 16, 2023, 06:44:31 pm »
One thing that I would suggest is more visual diversity in Shogg. Right now the guys I want to capture look identical to the rest so the only way to capture them is to get lucky or capture the entire map which is tedious. So I would suggest setting them apart in some way like you do with other cult leaders.

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5074 on: February 16, 2023, 07:01:07 pm »
Which 'guys' do you mean? I'm only aware of two Shogg-oths sharing sprites: Reptoid big and biggest head honchos, and Engineers looking the same as regular Reptoids.

Offline PPQ

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5075 on: February 16, 2023, 11:34:10 pm »
Which 'guys' do you mean? I'm only aware of two Shogg-oths sharing sprites: Reptoid big and biggest head honchos, and Engineers looking the same as regular Reptoids.
The chieftains of the crab people and spider people. They look just the same as regular soldiers with no distinction.

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5076 on: February 17, 2023, 12:07:11 am »
Er, what?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 12:28:45 am by Juku121 »

Offline PPQ

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5077 on: February 17, 2023, 01:06:59 pm »
Er, what?
So the chief crab has eyes of a slightly different color? That's like 3 pixels worth. I literally can't see it without zooming into the image. And certainly not in the dark of the game.

The ant and spider are ok though. That's the way it should be. Big obvious difference that you can tell at a glance.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5078 on: February 17, 2023, 03:20:14 pm »
So the chief crab has eyes of a slightly different color? That's like 3 pixels worth. I literally can't see it without zooming into the image. And certainly not in the dark of the game.

lol wat?



And since when has "the dark of the game" have anything to do with unit/inventory view? Brightness levels aren't even applied to those. You're perfectly able to differentiate those two units when you look at them.

This is what you see in-game (disregard the weapons):

« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 03:35:54 pm by krautbernd »

Offline PPQ

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5079 on: February 17, 2023, 05:22:51 pm »
Well maybe you can. But I have been playing this game for over a year now and newer even noticed that the two models have different eye colors or that it was in any way relevant. Certainly not any more relevant than the fact many other units in the game have several alternate models like male and female versions etc.

Bottom line is that they simply are not distinct enough for me to ever know the difference. Certainly not without being told. And that is an accessibility problem.

And no matter how hard you argue that you can see it does not change that any more than you arguing that you can easily climb a flight of stairs changes the fact someone else might not be able to.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 05:27:05 pm by PPQ »

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5080 on: February 17, 2023, 05:46:08 pm »
So, just to clarify, do Sectoid Commanders look distinct enough for you?

And, personally, I'm not a fan of game UI beating you over the head with information you can discover on your own. That's a fine line, of course, and clearly the Scorpoids fall on one side of it for me and krautbernd and the other for you.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 05:51:31 pm by Juku121 »

Offline PPQ

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5081 on: February 17, 2023, 09:39:20 pm »
So, just to clarify, do Sectoid Commanders look distinct enough for you?
No, but I didn't get to them yet. Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.

Quote
And, personally, I'm not a fan of game UI beating you over the head with information you can discover on your own. That's a fine line, of course, and clearly the Scorpoids fall on one side of it for me and krautbernd and the other for you.
That's the thing. How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5082 on: February 17, 2023, 10:43:09 pm »
Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.

How is "distinct color of their giant eyes" not exactely that?

That's the thing. How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.
By noticing it? Any maybe by noticing that one of them seems to be a lot rarer than the other variant?

I guess you would have no idea that these might be different units either?



I mean, maybe one of them just happended to have a red sharpie.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 10:45:10 pm by krautbernd »

Offline Juku121

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5083 on: February 17, 2023, 10:53:36 pm »
No, but I didn't get to them yet. Ideally all commanders, leaders, engineers etc. would have little distinguishing features to let us tell them apart.
But Sectoid Commanders do have a little distinguishing feature, unlike leaders, engineers, etc. About as big as a naked Sectoid can have. That's why I asked.

How do you even know eye color is relevant in a mod where some creatures all share the same model and others (like humans for example) have multiple models for the same unit type.
Me personally? Because I a) explore the shit out of the mod's data and b) notice that pretty much all the cases with multiple models amount to either a direct hair/clothes colour swap or are treated separately for research purposes. Red Dawn pioneers? Separate research for males and females. Black Lotus Hosts? Dye their hair. Syndicate Supersoldiers? Swap camo colours. Well, okay, the last I didn't notice until recently because I use Michelin Men. :)

And there are quite a few units where ranks have subtle differences. Syndicate Mercs from above, red vs plain Floaters, Hybrids with small but differently coloured shoulder pads; Machinobis and Assassins, for an extreme example. So I've learned to be careful, or just stun the lot and sort it out in research for future reference.


I don't really know which human faction you're referring to that has significantly different sprites for a singular unit that's not telegraphed in some way.


I do get where you're coming from, and my Sectoids have the circlets filter down to leaders, plus separate inventory sprites for non-soldiers and another one for engineers. Hybrids with sprites pilfered from Piratez that are more than just a colour swap. BL Warriors with sprites distinct from ninjas. Etc. But quite a few are still subtle, and I like that.

Scorpoids are a somewhat excessive case since they kinda blur into the surrounding cave terrain at the best of times, and can frequently have their backs turned so the eyes only stand out when you middle-click them. So the chiefs having at least some sort of distinct ceremonial weapon would be nice. Although when they actually face you, the laser eyes do stand out to me, three pixels or not.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2023, 11:17:08 pm by Juku121 »

Offline krautbernd

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Re: The X-Com Files - 2.8: The Lunar Protocol
« Reply #5084 on: February 18, 2023, 12:19:45 am »
And there are quite a few units where ranks have subtle differences. Syndicate Mercs from above, red vs plain Floaters[...]
Just a small remark, but floaters come in a range of other exciting colors beside ... and red. For example blue, green, white and a different shade of blue! ;)

« Last Edit: February 18, 2023, 12:45:40 am by krautbernd »