Author Topic: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion  (Read 9252 times)

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #15 on: January 13, 2015, 05:00:33 pm »
-Robin's extra aliens
-Luke's extra UFO layouts
-smoke bomb for the small launcher
-some kind of terrain destroying acid gun derived from Celatids (late-game tool for breaching UFO hulls)

Robin's extra aliens can be latter added as an additional faction with their own specific UFOs. I'm thinking of using some of Luke's Extra UFOs, specially those that show the vanilla UFOs from different perspectives. Smoke bomb... yeah, that would fit also with the explosive ammo for the Small Launcher.
But terrain destroying (or UFO breaching) weapons are a no, in my opinion due to the fact that they can be also used by players as very effective melee weapons.

  • Luke's UFOs or as alternative,  the compilation "YET MORE UFOS!"
  • Luke's Terrains (at least the new maps of alien base)
  • new aliens race
  • the incoming new Apocalypse inspired maps of Robin
Regarding UFOs, I'm thinking now that one option is to retain modularity, so that people can choose between either UFO compilation. Luke's terrains are a bit of a pickle: the underground levels on the terror sites mess everything up, but I would be fine with using an alternative Alien Base.
New aliens can go into a new alien faction rather than being added to the original ones. And I love Robin's Apocalypse maps but I've got a new faction called MJ-12 with its own maps and units. But the assets on the MIB mod are simply too good, so they'll appear in one way or the other.

About plasma balance, instead of relying on captures, you could tweak the alien tech levels so that the Heavy Plasma simply doesn't appear on day 1...
For example, start with a tier of plasma weapons which do 50% the damage of vanilla, while the humans take 200% plasma damage. (resulting in the same kind of overkill).
Then, over the course of months, when the alien bring a new tier of plasma weapons (75%, 100% of the "reference" weapons), the player is underpowered until the research of this weapon's category unlocks armor with better plasma resistance (133%, 100%).

Yup, tweaking the alien tech levels will be necessary since I'm planning on reducing the carrying capability of the Skyranger and Avenger to bring less units. But changing the damage of the weapons I'm less convinced since that involves a ton of changes and it can get confusing. I'll keep this idea in mind though in case the initial game gets too brutal.

Offline ChainsawAardvark

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #16 on: January 13, 2015, 08:11:25 pm »
Try to think of ways to make things more specialized and niche - there should be a reason to avoid having everyone in flying suits with heavy plasma cannons.

As long as we're brainstorming, how about this: turn around the tech 180 degrees. Aliens use plasma because it limits friendly fire - they're fairly immune to it and the energy dissipates without damaging internal parts of the ship. Although its a step up from nitrocellulose guns for the humans (or at least has higher ammo capacities than usual) the real advancement is when your scientists reverse engineer the internal parts. Ignition coils lead to lasers and containment bottles reveal Gauss weapons.

Do you know how the night visibility is coded - scout armor with light intensifiers to see in darkness might be neat.

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2015, 09:27:00 pm »
Try to think of ways to make things more specialized and niche - there should be a reason to avoid having everyone in flying suits with heavy plasma cannons.

The issue I found is that it can be hard to come up with new additions that aren't simply a variation of something that already exists. And speaking of the Heavy Plasma, so far the best way I've seen of limiting its usage is to remove the Auto fire mode and increase its aim to make it similar to TFTD's Sonic Cannon.

Quote
As long as we're brainstorming, how about this: turn around the tech 180 degrees. Aliens use plasma because it limits friendly fire - they're fairly immune to it and the energy dissipates without damaging internal parts of the ship. Although its a step up from nitrocellulose guns for the humans (or at least has higher ammo capacities than usual) the real advancement is when your scientists reverse engineer the internal parts. Ignition coils lead to lasers and containment bottles reveal Gauss weapons.

Do you know how the night visibility is coded - scout armor with light intensifiers to see in darkness might be neat.

Aliens receiving limited damage from plasma is quite an intriguing idea but that would be changing a lot of things. Adding new weapon tiers is something that I've considered but the new research paths can also set you straight towards plasma weapons and skipping lasers outright, if you're lucky with the interrogation results from your captures.

The scout armor is a nice idea, but it's impossible to achieve without editing the engine code.

Finally, I've been adding one of the new factions when suddenly my squad found itself in the wrong plane (see pic below) :)

Offline NeXaXeN

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 24
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #18 on: January 14, 2015, 02:37:56 am »
To avoid an essay, I'll give my ideas hard and fast:

1) Mod combo I liked: Terran Plasma Weapons + Elerium breakdown Mod:

Why: Once you research alien plasma weapons your workshop is really nothing more than an Avenger factory. Terran Plasma weapons forces me to build my own plasma weapons and ammo--this made some missions REALLY tense as my operatives ran out of ammo and couldn't just mug a Muton for his gun.  The elerium breakdown mod made this one bearable as I could deconstruct alien artifacts to get 25-75% (based on mod parameters) of the item's elerium construction cost.


2) Mod Combo I liked: Alloy Craft (Retaliator and Sky Marshall):

Why: These two "in-between" craft made so much sense to me, and were VERY practical: After alien alloy research XCOM makes its own improved Interceptor and Transport based on existing designs. Each is improved (better speed, range, and HP with Interceptor, Skymarshall actually had more carrying capacity). And, lore-wise, XCOM would logically have to master human craft and alien technology integration BEFORE moving on to reverse engineering UFOs. And Elerium-wise it was nice to have somewhat improved jet-fuel using craft (that didn't have a rental fee for the Retaliator--I edited the Skymarshall to also not require a rental fee).   


3) Mod I Like: Alien Alloy Ammo + Mod Suggestion: Alien Alloy Weaponry:

Why: I liked the alien alloy mod lore-wise as it was XCOM's baby-steps into alien technology--trying to force alien ideas into a human template. I like the idea of a pre-laser alien alloy ammo weapon as a stepping stone for the same reason. Plus, if done right I think alien alloy weapons could be a laser weapon alternative or complement: Lasers have unlimited ammo, whereas alloy weapons would take ammo but do more damage (or something).


4) Mass Accelerator Weapons + My own personal Armor mods:

Why: I liked this combo because I think it encapsulates the spirit of the XCOM story. The Mass Accelerator weapons are BETTER than alien plasma, and my personal armor mods gave soldiers the protection and stat boosts to stand toe-to-toe with Mutons.

How does this combo capture the XCOM spirit? The aliens have been using the same technology for millions of years in a unified, slavish existence under a single hive-mind. Humans are different. We're divided into a council of funding nations. We adapt. We change and grow. And we improve the living @#$% out of the alien technology until WE SEND E.T. HOME--IN A BODY BAG!  8)


5) Mod I like: PSIONIC ARMOR:

Why: A mod of a mod, someone took the purple power armor recolor, reduced the stat protection (to around personal armor!) but added psionic resistance to make the wearer impervious to mind control. This made my cannon fodder troops useful as they wouldn't be MC'd, but more vulnerable than 70+ psionic strength operatives in regular armor. Was it worth the elerium to have that 60 accuracy new recruit? Very very tense scenarios.


6) Suggestion: Research Guidance

Why: When I got XCOM nearly 20 years ago it was odd to me that I needed to buy a strategy guide or a PC Gamer mag to figure out the research order. I would suggest that research items have XCOM scientist suggestions as to your next course of action.

EXAMPLES:

"We will need to capture and interrogate an ALIEN LEADER if we want to discover more about ALIEN PSIONICS.*

"We should take possession of a UFO POWER SOURCE and research it to derive more advanced XCOM craft."


Good luck with your mod!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 02:40:06 am by NeXaXeN »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #19 on: January 14, 2015, 06:58:17 am »
1) Mod combo I liked: Terran Plasma Weapons + Elerium breakdown Mod

I've checked it out. I'm not against the idea but at the moment there's a ton of things I'm trying to get together at the moment. Just choosing weapons is... insane because I keep discovering new cool stuff.

Quote
2) Mod Combo I liked: Alloy Craft (Retaliator and Sky Marshall):

Why: These two "in-between" craft made so much sense to me, and were VERY practical: After alien alloy research XCOM makes its own improved Interceptor and Transport based on existing designs. Each is improved (better speed, range, and HP with Interceptor, Skymarshall actually had more carrying capacity). And, lore-wise, XCOM would logically have to master human craft and alien technology integration BEFORE moving on to reverse engineering UFOs. And Elerium-wise it was nice to have somewhat improved jet-fuel using craft (that didn't have a rental fee for the Retaliator--I edited the Skymarshall to also not require a rental fee).   

3) Mod I Like: Alien Alloy Ammo + Mod Suggestion: Alien Alloy Weaponry:

Why: I liked the alien alloy mod lore-wise as it was XCOM's baby-steps into alien technology--trying to force alien ideas into a human template. I like the idea of a pre-laser alien alloy ammo weapon as a stepping stone for the same reason. Plus, if done right I think alien alloy weapons could be a laser weapon alternative or complement: Lasers have unlimited ammo, whereas alloy weapons would take ammo but do more damage (or something).

Both mods seem also nice but right now I've already added clips to Laser weapons, but I've introduced Improved Lasers, which require Elerium both for research and manufacturing, and are half-way between Lasers and Plasmas regarding performance (plus they get back unlimited ammo). Again, maybe in the future but adding a lot of these half-tiers start getting on my nerves.

Quote
]4) Mass Accelerator Weapons + My own personal Armor mods:

Why: I liked this combo because I think it encapsulates the spirit of the XCOM story. The Mass Accelerator weapons are BETTER than alien plasma, and my personal armor mods gave soldiers the protection and stat boosts to stand toe-to-toe with Mutons.

How does this combo capture the XCOM spirit? The aliens have been using the same technology for millions of years in a unified, slavish existence under a single hive-mind. Humans are different. We're divided into a council of funding nations. We adapt. We change and grow. And we improve the living @#$% out of the alien technology until WE SEND E.T. HOME--IN A BODY BAG!  8)[/quote

Your opinion. I prefer winning and still having the worst tech :)

Quote
5) Mod I like: PSIONIC ARMOR:

Why: A mod of a mod, someone took the purple power armor recolor, reduced the stat protection (to around personal armor!) but added psionic resistance to make the wearer impervious to mind control. This made my cannon fodder troops useful as they wouldn't be MC'd, but more vulnerable than 70+ psionic strength operatives in regular armor. Was it worth the elerium to have that 60 accuracy new recruit? Very very tense scenarios.

Nope. Psionics is one of the few fields were the AI can stand its ground. This helps a player a lot when the AI will already have trouble.

Quote
6) Suggestion: Research Guidance

Why: When I got XCOM nearly 20 years ago it was odd to me that I needed to buy a strategy guide or a PC Gamer mag to figure out the research order. I would suggest that research items have XCOM scientist suggestions as to your next course of action.

EXAMPLES:

"We will need to capture and interrogate an ALIEN LEADER if we want to discover more about ALIEN PSIONICS.*

"We should take possession of a UFO POWER SOURCE and research it to derive more advanced XCOM craft."

Good luck with your mod!

This is something I'm already trying to do when writing new UFOpedia articles. And thanks for the suggestions :)

Offline ChainsawAardvark

  • Sergeant
  • **
  • Posts: 20
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2015, 08:32:57 am »
As to an idea for adding some factions - what if you had sub-mods that would let you alter the price of new personnel or the delivery time? I don't think you can make soldiers available only at the beginning of the month, but if it takes two or three weeks for replacements - you can't be so picky about who you choose, and tanks take an escalated importance. Starting with cheaper soldiers, and a craft bigger than a sky ranger makes human wave tactics a little more plausible.

What about an airdrop/fast rope deployment craft? Its in mission appearance is just some flat tiles on the ground for the deployment zone (like when you start a base mission) The soldiers have nowhere to hide, but almost every one of them can move on turn one, rather than queuing up to exit like the Skyranger and Avenger. You could have possible variants like an eight person UH-1, sixteen for a KA-29, or some tanks with a CH-47.

The vanilla Skyranger has always seemed a little too good - able to cross the world and loiter for days, while still a fuel hungry VTOL. What if there were some more early game choices for transports? A rapid response craft with a small team (yes I know, lightning) or a huge slow craft that delivers many troops, but basically needs to be kept on patrol or it will never get to a mission in time.

Even without adding a bunch of new craft, simply lowering the fuel load of the vanilla craft makes the rush to build new bases all the more pressing and prevents people from loitering around waiting for daylight. Add in the modest re-balance mod's altered funding - or include some more nations, and the opening moves become truly tense as you must chose between research or new locations.

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2015, 05:06:15 pm »
As to an idea for adding some factions - what if you had sub-mods that would let you alter the price of new personnel or the delivery time? I don't think you can make soldiers available only at the beginning of the month, but if it takes two or three weeks for replacements - you can't be so picky about who you choose, and tanks take an escalated importance. Starting with cheaper soldiers, and a craft bigger than a sky ranger makes human wave tactics a little more plausible.

Do you realize how much people would hate having to waiting so long for reinforcements to arrive? :D

The only issue is that you can overcome this by buying large batches of soldiers. Which then would have to be limited by increasing their price or limiting the Living Quarters capacity, which then would cause other issues?

Quote
What about an airdrop/fast rope deployment craft? Its in mission appearance is just some flat tiles on the ground for the deployment zone (like when you start a base mission) The soldiers have nowhere to hide, but almost every one of them can move on turn one, rather than queuing up to exit like the Skyranger and Avenger. You could have possible variants like an eight person UH-1, sixteen for a KA-29, or some tanks with a CH-47.

It is already possible to do deployments without craft on UFO missions or terror sites but doing it on a randomly generated map is challenging. You can start in the middle of the map without any cover (that will be a quick mission) but the main challenge is that you need the exit areas, otherwise you'll have to fight until either side wins (and if you lose you'll still lose the transport craft due to the game's mechanics).

The main issue with the exit areas would be that they would have to be placed on the map edges to make sense. Overall this idea has been done but works better if you're fighting inside buildings rather than outside fights. Adding helicopters only depends on having the sprites.

Quote
The vanilla Skyranger has always seemed a little too good - able to cross the world and loiter for days, while still a fuel hungry VTOL. What if there were some more early game choices for transports? A rapid response craft with a small team (yes I know, lightning) or a huge slow craft that delivers many troops, but basically needs to be kept on patrol or it will never get to a mission in time.

Even without adding a bunch of new craft, simply lowering the fuel load of the vanilla craft makes the rush to build new bases all the more pressing and prevents people from loitering around waiting for daylight. Add in the modest re-balance mod's altered funding - or include some more nations, and the opening moves become truly tense as you must chose between research or new locations.

I actually hardly use the Skyranger for loitering around because in OpenXcom, IIRC, the Terror Sites will disappear once the timer is gone, whether you have a craft targeting the site or not. The main factor that determines choosing between research/manufacturing or new locations is the need to detect and shoot down UFOs.

The funding rebalance (the one I've seen is ibanix's Modest Rebalance) doesn't really solve the issue of certain locations (Europe/East Asia) being more attractive than others due to the number of countries present, despite the increases to other countries and even worsens it, IMO, by reducing the USA's funding, since it can be a popular choice to place the starting base, but not an optimal one. And all of this is also tied in to the RegionWeights that the engine uses when selecting a region for an alien mission, which are higher for the more populated locations, so any changes to funding/new countries would need to have that also rebalanced. And the Terrain Pack deals with this since it allows some UFO missions on the Indian and Atlantic oceans, so now radars need to be placed by the coastlines rather than in the interior.

As for new craft, I'm considering it in the future since the Skyranger might need an upgrade regarding troop capacity.

Offline ivandogovich

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 2409
  • X-Com Afficionado
    • View Profile
    • Ivan Dogovich Youtube
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2015, 05:37:35 pm »
I actually hardly use the Skyranger for loitering around because in OpenXcom, IIRC, the Terror Sites will disappear once the timer is gone, whether you have a craft targeting the site or not. 

Actually, stalling or delaying terror sites with multiple craft still works just fine in OXC.  I have it on video in my YouTube series, and NecroScope does it many times in his series too.

Cheers, Ivan :D

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2015, 06:40:13 pm »
Actually, stalling or delaying terror sites with multiple craft still works just fine in OXC.  I have it on video in my YouTube series, and NecroScope does it many times in his series too.

Cheers, Ivan :D

You're right, I've just checked the code to be sure. I must have misinterpreted someone's words since I was under the impression that they had fixed all those exploits but apparently they left that one alone. Thanks!
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 06:44:57 pm by Hobbes »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2015, 08:31:47 pm »
Just made a list of changes to mark off progress.

Countries
* Several countries had their areas redesigned to better fit their borders
Regions
* Several new cities have been added, with the possibility of adding more by uncommenting their entries on the ruleset
* North Atlantic, South Atlantic and Indian oceans can now be assigned alien missions at the beginning of the month (only Alien Research & Terror at the moment).
Terrains
* 15 new terrains added from the Terrain Pack.
Facilities
* Alien Containment requires Alien Biology research before it can be built
Items
* Clips added for all Laser Weapons
* Elerium Bomb and Stun Grenade added (require research)
* Improved Laser Weapons added (require research, unlimited ammo, improved power and aim)
* Sniper Rifle, LMG, Combat Knife and Incendiary Grenade added to starting XCom items.
* Uzi, AK47, RPG, Minigun, Snubnose Pistol, Multi-Launcher added to Cult's (new faction) items.
* MJ12 Pistol, Machine Pistol, Magnum, PDW, LMG, Rifle, Sniper Rifle, Laser Pistol, Laser Rifle, Heavy Laser, Grenade and Incendiary Grenade added to MJ12's (new faction) arsenal.
* Faction specific weapons can't be bought or manufactured, only sold.   
* HandOb images to be added to grenades and other small items.   
* Still haven't made my mind about adding Shotguns and SMGs, since the Shotgun is really no different from a rifle regarding game mechanics (except no Auto fire) and the SMG is also the same.
* Also considering Alloy ammo, but at the moment doesn't seem relevant since Alien Alloy research now isn't easily reachable (requires getting Alien Materials through capture) and the ballistic MJ12 weapons are all upgraded and can be used without research after being recovered. 
Crafts
* Skyranger capacity reduced to 10 units & Avenger capacity reduced to 16. This was made for several reasons: maps work better with less units present, the Lightning gets more useful, usually the units at the back of the craft are only used as a reserve, and with less units you get more attached to your soldiers. Plus, you'll need to think twice whether to bring the HWP or not.
* There will be later adjustments to the number of aliens present during missions to compensate for the reduced squads.
* AWACS craft under consideration, along with other possible crafts.
UFOs
* Transport Plane added for human faction missions (a Skyranger that can be easily shot down if detected, but that carries a Cannon for self-defense)
* Overseer UFO added (variant of Battleship)
Armors
* Alien inventory images to be added
Units
* Muton Commander and Leader added
* Alien Scientists (Sectoid, Ethereal, Snakeman and Floater) added
* MJ12 Mercenary added, more ranks will be added later
AlienRaces
* Mixed crews can now appear on all types of alien missions. The first appearance of the alien species still follows the vanilla game's progression, with the exception of Celatids and Sillycoids which can be encountered from the beginning. It is still possible to get vanilla crews of a single crew 
* Created 2 versions of each crew, so that you can see alien Commanders or Scientists during a mission but not both.
* An additional alien tier will be added, consisting of upgraded versions of the aliens, to appear on the late game. 
* Additional aliens will be added later, but as their own faction.
AlienDeployments
* Added Alien Scientists to both the Abductor and Harvesters
* Removed Alien Commanders from Base Defense missions. Commanders can now only appear during Alien Base missions or the Overseer UFO.
* Added 3 'types' of MJ12 missions: one with their Skyranger, another on an urban setting and the 3rd one on a large building
* Cult missions to be added, with their own specific terrain.
* I haven't deliberately added any content from the MiB mod so that it can be used as a plug-in for this mod.
* The final Cydonia mission will be redesigned for a bigger battlescape (70x70 size) and the alien composition will be changed to make it more challenging
Research
* Alien Containment depends on Alien Biology.
* Any Alien Autopsy unlocks Alien Biology
* Medics automatically unlock Mind Probe, Small Launcher & Stun Bomb, plus give a random Autopsy/Species.
* Navigators automatically unlock Alien Origins, plus give a random mission or Alien Physics.
* Engineers automatically unlock Alien Origins, plus give a random UFO or one of: Alien Materials, Alien Engineering, Laser, Plasma or Fusion Weapons.
* Scientists automatically unlock Alien Origins, plus a random tech of of these: Alien Physics, Alien Materials, Alien Engineering, Laser, Plasma or Fusion Weapons. Sectoid Scientists can also randomly unlock Psionics.
* Psionics can still be automatically unlocked by any Ethereal or a Sectoid Leader/Commander.
* Leaders automatically unlock Alien Origins and Leader Plus, except Muton Leaders
* Commanders automatically unlock Alien Origins, Leader Plus and Alien Operations, except Ethereal ones, which only give Alien Origins and Leader Plus, and Muton ones, which only give Alien Origins. Non-Muton Commanders may also randomly give Plasma or Fusion Weapons.
* Overseer UFO depend on both Alien Operations and The Martian Solution.
* Commander Plus depend on both Alien Operations +  Ethereal Commander Interrogation.
* Psi Lab depend on Psionics + Mind Probe
* Hyper-Wave Decoder depends on UFO Navigation and Alien Physics
* Blaster Launcher and Blaster Bomb depends on Fusion Weapons and Elerium.
* Alien Grenade depends on Elerium
* Elerium Bomb depends on Elerium, Fusion Weapons and Small Launcher
* Stun Grenade depends on Stun Bomb
* Plasma Pistol and Clip depend on Plasma Weapons. Plasma Rifle and Clip depend on Plasma Pistol and Clip. Heavy Plasma and Clip depend on Plasma Rifle and Clip. Plasma Cannon can depend on either Plasma Rifle or Heavy Plasma (as before)
* Laser Pistol depends on Laser Weapons, Laser Rifle on Laser Pistol, etc.
* Laser clips are automatically unlocked when you finish research on the weapon.
* Capturing a MJ12 Researcher can randomly unlock Alien Materials or Laser Weapons through interrogation
* Laser Weapons can also be unlocked by researching a captured MJ12 laser weapon.
* Improved Heavy Laser depends on both Heavy Laser and Elerium.
* Improved Laser Rifle depends on both Laser Rifle and Alien Alloys.
* Elerium-115 depend on Alien Physics.
* UFO Navigation and UFO Power Source depend on Alien Engineering.
* Alien Alloys depend on Alien Materials.
UFOPedia
* Faction weapons (MJ12, Cult) entries only appear on the UFOPedia after you've recovered those items.
AlienMissions
* Added human faction missions
* Overseer UFO mission to be added.
* Alien missions will be redesigned so that some species will appear later than in vanilla for balancing proposes.
ExtraStrings
* Rewriting existing strings to keep them consistent with the changes above.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 10:07:38 pm by Hobbes »

Offline volutar

  • Colonel
  • ****
  • Posts: 355
  • Vanilla digger & Quality assistant
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2015, 09:23:27 pm »
Hobbes you might be willing to combine your super mod with some robin's assets (I'm sure he will give you permission and gratitude), and it may become superior oxc mod. With your community level of respect it might become community edition.
Btw, shotgun pellets spread mechanics is slightly off. It's subject to revise. And it's not like a rifle considering that. But it's not that nice and fancy without pellet cloud trace animation. So not including is wise decision.

Cheers for your work.

Online Meridian

  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 6224
  • Aaand we're back!
    • View Profile
    • My Wiki
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2015, 10:31:01 pm »
@Hobbes: I have just briefly seen the list of changes (without studying them in detail) and immediately thought of FMP modpack. Can you tell me in 2-3 sentences if they are similar or different, or in general which one would you recommend to me if I wanted to do a Let's Play series with a heavily modded OpenXcom... and why?

PS: without spoiling too much, if that is even possible
« Last Edit: January 14, 2015, 11:23:49 pm by Meridian »

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2015, 11:27:16 pm »
Hobbes you might be willing to combine your super mod with some robin's assets (I'm sure he will give you permission and gratitude), and it may become superior oxc mod. With your community level of respect it might become community edition.
Btw, shotgun pellets spread mechanics is slightly off. It's subject to revise. And it's not like a rifle considering that. But it's not that nice and fancy without pellet cloud trace animation. So not including is wise decision.

Cheers for your work.

Thanks :)

It would be a little pretentious of me to consider this to end up like community edition, since there are already a ton of nice mods around, I'm just creating something that I'd like to play.

@Hobbes: I just quickly saw a list of changes (without studying them in detail) and immediately thought of FMP modpack. Can you tell me in 2-3 sentences if they similar or different, or in general which one would you recommend to me if I want to do a Let's Play series with a heavily modded OpenXcom and why?

PS: without spoiling too much, if that is even possible

A lot of content has been taken from the FMP, Solaris Scorch did a heck of a job organizing all mods into a single pack, so you'll recognize quite a few things. But when I think of this mod, I don't it to be several mods piled together like the FMP, but go for quality rather than quantity, and only add changes after considering if they really add something meaningful and how they overall fit. I wouldn't recommend this mod since it will take some time before it is finished and tested, but I'd recommend you have a look at XOps' XenoOperations mod, since graphically it seems one of the best mods around (I've taken a lot of content from there as well):

Offline yrizoud

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1024
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2015, 12:38:10 am »
Quote
Medics automatically unlock Mind Probe
I think it makes the early game infuriatingly more difficult, taking great risks to capture dozens of aliens which are then revealed to be useless soldiers.

Consider the default Openxcom deployments, here are the chances of getting a medic if you capture 3 aliens in a mission :
- In 3 ships, 0%. If you don't know the theoric team of the ship, you'll keep trying uselessly...
- In 3 ships, 30-33% chance
- In the harvester, 66%... but this one ship happens only in one Alien Mission. If no such mission is planned in the first 6 month, or if you thwart it by shooting the scouts early, you involuntarily cripple your own research.

Offline Hobbes

  • Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 3502
  • Infiltration subroutine in progress
    • View Profile
Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2015, 01:27:39 am »
I think it makes the early game infuriatingly more difficult, taking great risks to capture dozens of aliens which are then revealed to be useless soldiers.

Consider the default Openxcom deployments, here are the chances of getting a medic if you capture 3 aliens in a mission :
- In 3 ships, 0%. If you don't know the theoric team of the ship, you'll keep trying uselessly...
- In 3 ships, 30-33% chance
- In the harvester, 66%... but this one ship happens only in one Alien Mission. If no such mission is planned in the first 6 month, or if you thwart it by shooting the scouts early, you involuntarily cripple your own research.

You're right about it making the early game more difficult. I used to play a lot the original game with XComUtil's Research Help From Captured Aliens option, where the research times were doubled or trebled for most topics, but capturing aliens would cut down the remaining research time by a percentage, which could vary between 10%-70% depending on the alien rank and topic. Unfortunately, this mechanic can't be replicated in OpenXcom, so I come up with the idea of the Alien Scientists (and other ranks) being required to unlock very important topics.

I'm still not 100% sure though of certain aspects of this approach, specially regarding Laser Weapons but this is something that needs to be properly tested, and corrected in case the game gets too hard.

But, in any case, the fun of this approach is that you basically need to stun every alien you can find until you get what you need. When I played the original game, my guys would all switch to Stun Rods when entering the UFO. Find an alien, zap him, step over him to check his rank by picking the body on the inventory screen (no Mind Probe needed). If it's a soldier leave a primed grenade on its body and move to the next alien (or move its body to a room with only 1 door, or wait until it wakes up for your rookies to get some live target practice). Naturally, this could lead to several dead rookies if the alien was facing your way when you approached it. But that was also part of the challenge: when you opened the door of a Medium Scout and found 5 aliens there, you'd need to think first which should be the first target to avoid a blood bath. 

And to help there are also little things you learn about the alien ranks: anyone carrying a Small Launcher or Blaster Launcher is important enough to capture, with the former usually being in the hands of Medics.