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Author Topic: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion  (Read 14975 times)

Offline Hobbes

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[BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« on: January 12, 2015, 05:10:53 pm »
Hello all :)

I've been working on a top secret new project called 'UFO Redux', which will be an expansion of the original game, using the current nightly version. This project has 4 objectives:
1) Enlarging and diversifying the game universe - new missions & factions.
2) Redesigning the research tree, adding more requirements to complete key topics, with a special focus on the capture of live aliens to advance research.
3) Increasing the tension while playing.
4) Fixing idiosyncrasies of the original game, such as Heavy Lasers being nearly useless and others.

I've started designing by using elements of my Alien Remix and Missions Pack mods but I've also been using elements from a lot of mods developed by other people like robin's MiB or Dioxine's Piratez. And this expansion will certainly also include the Terrain Pack. 

But since there's a ton of other mods and I don't have time to try them all out, I've decided to ask for suggestions or ideas from the forum.

So I ask: what mods of weapons/aliens/etc. do you really like to use and why are they so fun/meaningful? Also feel free to add suggestions about the original game features that could be improved. Keep in mind though that this will not be a compilation like the Final Mod Pack where everything goes and please keep suggestions to things that are achievable with the currently nightly builds.

Thanks for your help :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 05:13:52 pm by Hobbes »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #1 on: January 12, 2015, 06:14:24 pm »
Neat Idea, Hobbes!! :)  (Have you checked out HellRaiser's research mod that he has been working on in the past week?)

Mods to include:
- Combat Knife (the ability to add melee kills is a great little expansion of the game)
- Incendiary grenade  (nice tool, not game breaking)

Game feature improvement:
- Better handobs.  i.e. Medikit, HE Pack, Motion Scanner, etc.  These all use the default grenade handob, and it just looks silly.  I have already created a Medikit handob mod, and will post an HE Pack handob mod this evening.  Motion scanner to be worked on soon as well.

Overall, I think that the items that are added into the mod shouldn't fundamentally change the game or unbalance it.  I know that this can be very tricky, (i.e. Sniper Rifle can dominate early game, etc) but I think the effort is worth it.

Cheers, Ivan :D

Offline bladum

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #2 on: January 12, 2015, 06:18:02 pm »
i am not sure if this will help you but... i will give a try :-)

in my fork https://github.com/Bladum/OpenXcom i merged several different improvements from other devs (guys you are awesome !!) and try to keep code similar to vanilla to still get fixes from standard.

I have two main rules about this fork:

1) fork that supports a community edition with single mod that is non configurable. This means all players have similar experience. There is no need to maintain vanilla compatibility or other mods compatibility. Mod that is using all new features is already inside the repo, actually if you look into resources it has completely "singleton" structure.

2) i do not judge if feature is vanilla or not neither if this is needed or not nor do i like it or not. I just judge how much time it will take or if it will break any standard inside code for any future growth. So if you have any requests which are not breaking the game from technical point of view, then i am glad to add them. I do not care if there are 10 or 100 aliens unless performance drops a lot.

If you think this will help you in achieving your goal then lets talk about it.

If not just ignore my post.... and sorry for wasting a minute for reading this ;)

Tom

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2015, 06:48:53 pm »
Neat Idea, Hobbes!! :)  (Have you checked out HellRaiser's research mod that he has been working on in the past week?)

Just read it. He has some nice ideas about those UFO components that have no utility but others are impracticable with the tree I'm designing, specially his requirements for the Alien Containment. I've also looked already into the Tiny Research Mod and the Alternate Weapon Tech and got a few elements from both.

To reveal the main change I've introduced, the research tree I've designed has 8 techs (7 new, 1 existing one) that are required for the advanced projects (weapons, UFOs, Psionics, etc.) and can only be unlocked by capturing aliens. And to help with this requirement, there is a new alien rank of Scientist, which when interrogated will randomly give 1 of these techs. And other ranks can also randomly give a few of these techs (e.g. Alien Engineer can unlock Plasma Weapons).

One of the things that annoyed me in the original game was how easy it was for Earth to develop Plasma Weapons or UFOs. With these requirements at least you'll need the *active* collaboration of an alien to get those techs.

And there's also minor additions, such as Heavy Laser + Elerium unlocking Advanced Heavy Laser (which uses XComUtil's stats).

Quote
Mods to include:
- Combat Knife (the ability to add melee kills is a great little expansion of the game)
- Incendiary grenade  (nice tool, not game breaking)

Game feature improvement:
- Better handobs.  i.e. Medikit, HE Pack, Motion Scanner, etc.  These all use the default grenade handob, and it just looks silly.  I have already created a Medikit handob mod, and will post an HE Pack handob mod this evening.  Motion scanner to be worked on soon as well.

Already got all 3 on my personal list. I will add the HE Pack and Scanner Handobs to the list when you add them.

Quote
Overall, I think that the items that are added into the mod shouldn't fundamentally change the game or unbalance it.  I know that this can be very tricky, (i.e. Sniper Rifle can dominate early game, etc) but I think the effort is worth it.

Unless the item fills a specific niche (like Incendiary Grenade), it's unlikely that I'll add it to the XCom standard equipment, if it's just a variation of the original equipment (Sniper Rifles, Shotguns, Machineguns, RPGs would fit this description). However, I'll be adding additional human factions and there's plenty of room there for alternative gear that could be later be recovered and used by XCom.

Thanks! :)

i am not sure if this will help you but... i will give a try :-)

in my fork https://github.com/Bladum/OpenXcom i merged several different improvements from other devs (guys you are awesome !!) and try to keep code similar to vanilla to still get fixes from standard.

I have two main rules about this fork:

1) fork that supports a community edition with single mod that is non configurable. This means all players have similar experience. There is no need to maintain vanilla compatibility or other mods compatibility. Mod that is using all new features is already inside the repo, actually if you look into resources it has completely "singleton" structure.

2) i do not judge if feature is vanilla or not neither if this is needed or not nor do i like it or not. I just judge how much time it will take or if it will break any standard inside code for any future growth. So if you have any requests which are not breaking the game from technical point of view, then i am glad to add them. I do not care if there are 10 or 100 aliens unless performance drops a lot.

If you think this will help you in achieving your goal then lets talk about it.

If not just ignore my post.... and sorry for wasting a minute for reading this ;)

Tom

I'd love to use a specialized build to change things like alien mission frequency buuuuuut going that route would complicate things for players. At this point that isn't on the plans since I already come up with temporary solutions for a couple of issues but thanks for the offer :)
« Last Edit: January 12, 2015, 06:52:47 pm by Hobbes »

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2015, 08:09:02 pm »
Be sure to leave a long line of human tech researchable. So that even if the player doesn't manage to catch the required items or live aliens, the scientists still have something to do.

Offline bladum

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2015, 08:16:34 pm »
@Hobbes

i can try to create another fork and add such requests to master to be used on your ideas. What do you have in mind exactly ?

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2015, 09:24:30 pm »
Be sure to leave a long line of human tech researchable. So that even if the player doesn't manage to catch the required items or live aliens, the scientists still have something to do.

Could you be a little more specific about the kind of human tech items? Better yet, imagine that Laser Weapons can only be unlocked through capturing an alien: what else could you add to human tech items, besides lasers?

@Hobbes

i can try to create another fork and add such requests to master to be used on your ideas. What do you have in mind exactly ?

The ability to be able to edit on the ruleset the number and type of alien missions which are generated each month. More specifically, this deals with the determineAlienMissions and time1Month funcions on GeoscapeState.cpp.

Offline yrizoud

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2015, 02:30:54 am »
Could you be a little more specific about the kind of human tech items? Better yet, imagine that Laser Weapons can only be unlocked through capturing an alien: what else could you add to human tech items, besides lasers?
No specific idea in mind. From having tested the FMP which requires many captures before you can use any alien item, I just want to warn that it's frustrating when you "starve" the tech topics.

Offline Hobbes

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2015, 02:54:20 am »
No specific idea in mind. From having tested the FMP which requires many captures before you can use any alien item, I just want to warn that it's frustrating when you "starve" the tech topics.

I'm actually planning for this to happen in the initial months. Lets see how that idea works out.

Offline Gifty

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2015, 03:26:38 am »
I actually had an idea like this kicking around months ago; my rough list included:

-incendiary grenade
-Robin's extra aliens
-improved handobs
-Luke's extra UFO layouts
-smoke bomb for the small launcher
-some kind of terrain destroying acid gun derived from Celatids (late-game tool for breaching UFO hulls)
« Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 03:28:36 am by Gifty »

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #10 on: January 13, 2015, 04:47:48 am »
I actually had an idea like this kicking around months ago; my rough list included:
<snip>
-improved handobs


@Gifty: Is there another improved Handobs mod? or am I reinventing the wheel with my medikit Handob and HE Handob mods?

Offline Gifty

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #11 on: January 13, 2015, 05:30:21 am »
Oh, no, as far as I'm aware you're the first one to do it. It was just something I thought should be included.

Offline ivandogovich

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #12 on: January 13, 2015, 05:42:17 am »
@Gifty, Lol.   </threadjack>

And Here is the link for the HE Handob: https://www.openxcom.com/mod/he-handob

Offline davide

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Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2015, 02:50:14 pm »
    ...
    But since there's a ton of other mods and I don't have time to try them all out, I've decided to ask for suggestions or ideas from the forum.


    +100 for the idea

    I will appreciate if you could consider
    • Luke's UFOs or as alternative,  the compilation "YET MORE UFOS!"
    • Luke's Terrains (at least the new maps of alien base)
    • new aliens race
    • the incoming new Apocalypse inspired maps of Robin

    thanks
    [/list]
    « Last Edit: January 13, 2015, 02:52:38 pm by davide »

    Offline yrizoud

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    Re: [BRAINSTORMING] Suggestions and ideas for an expansion
    « Reply #14 on: January 13, 2015, 04:36:13 pm »
    About plasma balance, instead of relying on captures, you could tweak the alien tech levels so that the Heavy Plasma simply doesn't appear on day 1...
    For example, start with a tier of plasma weapons which do 50% the damage of vanilla, while the humans take 200% plasma damage. (resulting in the same kind of overkill).
    Then, over the course of months, when the alien bring a new tier of plasma weapons (75%, 100% of the "reference" weapons), the player is underpowered until the research of this weapon's category unlocks armor with better plasma resistance (133%, 100%).