[OLD] Old OXCE discussion thread

[Solarius Scorch]

It is also for a balance reason. Reactions and accuracy are the two stats I value the most. Every thing else is secondary. With good reactions you survive better (shoot things when they show up and don't get shot up when showing up). With good firing accuracy you kill stuff. Training both at the firing range leaves the gym as a really secondary facility.

I think it depends on your playing style, for example to me that's upside down, since Reactions is a low-priority stat to me (I don't rely on it) and Firing Accuracy is easily trainable. My main concern is TUs/Stamina (Imobility) and Melee (because it's initially very low and cannot be trained without actually hitting stuff in melee, which is dangerous and hard).

Anyway, the exact balance of bonuses can be figured out later, it doesn't really belong in this thread.

On the hospital: You could have one to which you assign soldiers, with limited spots (since it would take alien tech and lots of money to supply it). Those assigned recover faster, the others recover at the vanilla rate. Really fancy hospitals with cloning tech might even allow you to bring back a soldier from the memorial!

That's a bit much, especially considering OXCE allows units to be completely annihilated. Vanilla allows body destruction too.

[pilot00]

If you put cloning tech into the fold it will be too much IMHO. I have played a lot of test runs with save scumming on and used the same batch of soldiers from the beggining ( in all X-COm, TFTD and piratez) reloading after each death. In the end you have a bunch of death machines that their only weakness is the psiweakness some might have. I do not recomend bringing soldiers back like that.

[Arthanor]

@Solarius: That must be true.. Reactions is really important to me especially since it is so hard to get. You can train a high reaction rookie in everything else faster than you can train a sokdier that's good at everything to have good reactions. And reactions will save you, from being reacted to or by firing that warning shot that makes the chryssalid go back into hiding.

On cloning: It all depends on the cost and the timing. Not loosing any soldier allows them to train in each fight which makes them much better than a soldier who would die and be resurrected months later after cloning is invented and their cloning process completed.

There's a lot of tuning too. How long for xcom to make a full grown human? 6 months? How efficient is cloning? If you retrieve 50% of stats it's useless, so maybe.. 75%? I think it could be an interesting feature and take advantage of existing alien tech, but of course it needs tweaking.

[Solarius Scorch]

I just think necromancy is creepy.

[Bloax]

Oh.. I did not realize I phrased my comment quite that way.. What I meant to say is that both facilities should do it.
*SNIP*
On the hospital: You could have one to which you assign soldiers, with limited spots (since it would take alien tech and lots of money to supply it). Those assigned recover faster, the others recover at the vanilla rate. Really fancy hospitals with cloning tech might even allow you to bring back a soldier from the memorial!

I would say that all of these things are good features. Not necessarily for vanilla XCOM, but they are good features to have available for not-entirely-XCOM things.

[pilot00]

On cloning: It all depends on the cost and the timing. Not loosing any soldier allows them to train in each fight which makes them much better than a soldier who would die and be resurrected months later after cloning is invented and their cloning process completed.

There's a lot of tuning too. How long for xcom to make a full grown human? 6 months? How efficient is cloning? If you retrieve 50% of stats it's useless, so maybe.. 75%? I think it could be an interesting feature and take advantage of existing alien tech, but of course it needs tweaking.

If we take out the probability of one shot death (for the arguements shake), having a soldier that was alive from day 1 and was active in most missions with an average time spent in med bay and (again for the shake of the arguement) is not a psi wimp, by the time you will assault cydonia he will be a one man wrecking crew or as close as the game allows it. Now factor this in with multiple soldiers and you will have an army that wrecks face.

Fine tunning might be the answer and actually giving a soldier 50% of his stats back, might be a good option (depending on who died ofc) and actually take care of the abuse (having a god immortal squad) by itself. In my above paradigm you would have a combat fit soldier that is not crazy strong and would eliminate the need to hire new rookies. But repeated deaths would lead to diminishing stats necessiating recruiting (which should be in the game).

I just think necromancy is creepy.

Meh consider it like fabricating robots (I am against cloning in RL).

[the_third_curry]

Instead of cloning, you could have it as a "regeneration" process that requires the corpse of the fallen soldier, and then limit the number of maximum regenerations to 2 or 3 on the basis that further regeneration would risk severe deterioration of the genetic material.

[Bloax]

I would say that all of these things are good features. Not necessarily for vanilla XCOM, but they are good features to have available for not-entirely-XCOM things.

In fact, add a weapon flag that lets soldiers apply medikit-like items to themselves onto that.

no this has no relation to "how can you be a pirate if you can't even hold your own rum" what are you talking about

[Solarius Scorch]

I just don't think the revival mechanics hold water. If X-Com had such tech, they'd indeed be producing cheap biorobots en masse (exactly like the aliens do), not clone their fallen comrades. Because this makes no sense whatsoever.

In fact, add a weapon flag that lets soldiers apply medikit-like items to themselves onto that.

That's also a good idea.

Speaking of medikits: I remember long ago that items were supposed to become exhaustible in OXCE, so a used medikit would be lost forever due to depletion just like ammo. (Even more pronounced in Piratez, where your healing items are alcoholic beverages.) Is it in the game, or not?

[pilot00]

Instead of cloning, you could have it as a "regeneration" process that requires the corpse of the fallen soldier, and then limit the number of maximum regenerations to 2 or 3 on the basis that further regeneration would risk severe deterioration of the genetic material.

I dont think the problem is how one would call it

[Dioxine]

Well writing code for this would be banal (all it takes is to retrieve a soldier from the Memorial - you can actually do it quite easily yourself by doctoring a save), but for me an important part of XCom is precisely the fact that the soldiers are mortal. You let them die, they're gone forever, all you can do is visit their graves.

One small improvement request I'd like: armor should be removed from soldiers that are killed & moved to the Memorial. Normally it makes no difference, but if it was a stat-modifying armor, the modifiers stay on a deceased soldier and I think it is inelegant (and in the case of revival/save doctoring, it is required - armor was destroyed, wasn't it, and if you have retrievable armor, it was retrieved, so the revived soldier cannot still have his own "copy" of the armor).

[Bloax]

I still say resurrection should be a thing, even if it's only passable for a Sword & Sorcery setting where necromancy is a thing.
because having the possibilities there is always good

[Solarius Scorch]

I still say resurrection should be a thing, even if it's only passable for a Sword & Sorcery setting where necromancy is a thing.
because having the possibilities there is always good

Yeah, put this way it's certainly true. But since as of now there is no actual fantasy total conversion, I think it would be best to ask Yankes for stuff that is immediately needed.

[Dioxine]

Yeah, I'm not against in on principle - in some settings it would make sense, plus (I might be wrong) it's not that difficult to add.

Also a bugreport (or rather, inconsistency report):
Extended adds extra cost to weapon reloading (equal to the cost of moving an ammo article from where you have it stuck to an imaginary hand). HOWEVER, this does not work when you use the [R] key for reloading - the game uses base TU cost then.

[Yankes]

I don't think I will do any healing or resing in my OXCE build. It would require too much UI changes to work properly.
More probably I would add option to configure numbers of day off duty caused by wounds (configured by armor or maybe global too).

And for MediKit I already added option for self heal, it will be available in next build. Its very possible that I will releases it today.
Its depend on this if Dioxine stop throwing new bugs on my