Author Topic: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8  (Read 60841 times)

Offline Rockfish

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.1
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2014, 12:52:12 pm »
This is my goofy idea for how I am planing to balance the stuff together, very much untested and very conceptual in nature!

Heavy PistolBattle RifleDMRAuto CannonSAWMML
Damage28305056/52/6020130/100/90
Weight5911151213
Ammo Count91254251
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimedna/18/2835/25/47na/40/73na/33/6040/20/nana/45/75
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimedna/52/7835/60/100na/90/150na/60/9045/56/nana/60/115
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Maxna/na/10/15/30na/15/25/35/4510/na/25/40/na5/na/25/35/45na/30/40/4815/na/40/60/100
Accuracy Drop Off Rate321433
Damage TypeAPAPAPAP/HE/INAP/HE/INHE/HE/IN
Note:5 round burstsmall rocket has 1 radius
Laser PistolLaser RifleHeavy Laser
Damage405070
Weight81016
Ammo Countnanana
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimedna/20/35na/25/48na/30/57
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimedna/54/68na/65/105na/70/110
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Maxna/na/13/17/32na/na/30/40/504/na/35/45/55
Accuracy Drop Off Rate324
Damage TypeLaserLaserLaser
Note:
Projector PistolProjector CarbineDual ProjectorArc Projector
Damage466046X250
Weight36810
Ammo Count814113
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimedna/22/3738/28/5650/36/68na/40/75
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimedna/60/8442/63/9840/61/98na/60/100
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Maxna/na/11/16/27na/17/29/38/437/15/25/35/454/na/20/35/45
Accuracy Drop Off Rate4352
Damage TypePlasmaPlasmaPlasmaStun
Note:Each shot is two 'pellets'
Plasma PDWPlasma RifleHeavy Plasma RifleSmall Launcher
Damage528011590
Weight571010
Ammo Count2628151
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimed40/30/5638/30/58na/30/55na/40/75
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimed50/65/8555/73/100na/65/105na/65/110
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Maxna/12/19/27/38na/15/25/35/453/na/25/35/458/na/23/38/55
Accuracy Drop Off Rate3242
Damage TypePlasmaPlasmaPlasmaStun
Note:
Flechette PistolFlechette RifleHeavy Flechette Rifle
Damage6390130
Weight81115
Ammo Count587
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimedna/35/62na/50/85na/70/92
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimedna/75/100na/86/130na/110/175
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Max5/na/15/30/na7/na/20/35/na10/na/25/40/na
Accuracy Drop Off Rate212
Damage TypeAPAPAP
Note:
Thermal RifleThermal CannonLarge Launcher
Damage30x333x490
Weight101715
Ammo Count8133
Tu Auto/Snap/Aimedna/33/nana/40/nana/45/na
Accuracy Auto/Snap/Aimedna/65/nana/75/nana/65/na
Range Min/Auto/Snap/Aimed/Max6/na/30/na/507/na/35/na/608/na/23/na/55
Accuracy Drop Off Rate454
Damage TypeLaserLaserHE/Acid
Note:arcarcarc
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 02:23:57 pm by Rockfish »

Offline LeBashar

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.1
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2014, 05:45:10 pm »
I think there is some problems :
- pistol make the rifle useless, except for the auto fire, but with a so low accuracy in auto and a range min of 15, the auto mode of the rifle is very ineffective. Anyway, 12 ammo is very low for a real usage of auto mode.
- 50 Dmg for the DMR seem to be a small cannon which don't match the picture
- 20 Dmg for the SAW make it ineffective against many target with armor able to negate this. Also there is the same problem as the rifle, this weapon seem to be designed for automatic fire, but the range and accuracy imply poor chances to hit, so maybe a useless weapon.
- projector carabine make the pistol useless
- no idea of what thermal weapons could done ingame
- for the flechette, maybe you could reduce their power by change the damage type to "acid" ? if it work, high power no more needed because nearly anyone has a good acid armor and make them more effective even with lower Dmg stats.

(all this assume you don't change any aliens stats)

Offline Rockfish

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.1
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2014, 08:23:09 pm »
I do agree on most of the problems raised, to be honest, at this point I am throwing numbers in off the top of my head. I think I might change the balancing to mostly get rid of the range control stuff, it just gets awkward in the ranges used.

I have also noticed a problem in that each rank of alien can only have 10 possible weapon combinations. the current thought I am having is that I am gonna change the weapons so that each rank has a specific set of weapons that replaced. so rather then the weapons being pure variety, I think I am gonna make each rank of alien have various tiers of weapons, for example:

Alien Soldier:
projector pistol > Plasma PDW/Projector Carbine ->  Plasma Rifle/Dual Projector -> Heavy Plasma/something

Alien Engineer:
Projector Pistol > Projector Carbine/Plasma PDW/Small launcher + explosive round > Plasma Rifle/Small launcher + explosive round

with an odd peppering of pistols and things.

I feel this could be used to make the aliens have a threatening development along with the player, even as the player gets better guns so do the aliens.

Offline Roxis231

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.1
« Reply #18 on: July 25, 2014, 06:00:13 am »
Is it possable for me to use/modify/base off these sprites?  I'm currently working on a Elerium Based Laser Mod, but I'm not really good at graphics.

Offline Rockfish

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.1
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2014, 10:39:37 am »
Is it possable for me to use/modify/base off these sprites?  I'm currently working on a Elerium Based Laser Mod, but I'm not really good at graphics.

Sure! just mention me in your mod readme or something.

Offline Rockfish

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2014, 06:32:45 pm »
Version 0.8 out now, I have gotten all the weapons ingame and mostly working with a loosely working tech tree and item lists.

Expect bugs and stuff, any feedback is appreciated.

Offline KingMob4313

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #21 on: July 29, 2014, 03:55:01 am »
Excellent work man.

I've done some work based off your sprites for my own mod, Coherency.  You've really done some excellent work.

Offline oftcrash

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #22 on: September 05, 2014, 10:34:11 pm »
Hi there,

I've been playing with the mod, but Laser weapons never unlocked, nor could I research any of the captured alien weapons. I looked through the rulesets and finally figured out what was happening (more or less).

STR_LASER_WEAPONS and STR_ALIEN_WEAPONRY had both "requires" and "dependencies". Something in the logic wouldn't allow that to work. By removing the "requires" field, they now appear properly (you need to remove "requires" from all the STR_ALIEN_WEAPONRY research records in all the alien weapons rulesets).

As I read the documentation correctly, you should only use "requires" if you are using "unlocks" rules from other discoveries. The "requires" is put in to block the "unlocks", which only override "dependencies." Something about including both rulesets and dependencies with the same items must cause some sort of bottleneck. I looked through all the other research items and made the same change, making sure they only had "dependencies" criteria.

Oh, I also renamed the text for STR_LASER_WEAPONS, even though I loved it, since "Elerium Electrical Generators and Advanced Solid State Laser Emitters" is too long to fit on the screen in the research selection menu.

Love the mod, by the way!

Offline Falko

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #23 on: September 05, 2014, 11:05:52 pm »
"you should only use "requires" if you are using "unlocks" rules from other discoveries"
that is not correct
e.g. all the races in oxc have no requires in them but they can be unlocked by medic-discoveries

Offline oftcrash

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #24 on: September 05, 2014, 11:54:42 pm »
"you should only use "requires" if you are using "unlocks" rules from other discoveries"
that is not correct
e.g. all the races in oxc have no requires in them but they can be unlocked by medic-discoveries

Sorry, you're right. I didn't phrase that as clearly as I thought I had. The sentence after that is what I was trying to get at.

The "requires" is put in to block the "unlocks", which only override "dependencies." Something about including both rulesets and dependencies with the same items must cause some sort of bottleneck.

Basically, an unlock can override any "dependencies" unless there's a "requires" rule that hasn't been met.

I should note that I just started getting into the docs and modding OXC in the last few days, so I'm having to infer/guess at a few things. Definitely appreciate the feedback!

I'm still not clear on what the logic is when you have the same requirements in both "requires" and "dependencies" inside the same research item, but at least in the case of this mod, it doesn't appear to work.

Offline werbfred

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #25 on: September 07, 2014, 08:29:29 pm »
Is a patch of the mod planned? or what do we exactely replace in the .rul files?

If this works I would say that this mod is one of the bests :)

Offline oftcrash

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #26 on: September 07, 2014, 11:05:10 pm »
Nothing official, nor well tested, but here are the rul files I modified which seem to be working so far (doesn't include all the other files - you'll still need the rest of the mod). Basically just modified the research blocks to remove the "requires" sections or switch them to "dependencies, and renamed the laser weapon research so it fit on the screen.

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #27 on: September 07, 2014, 11:36:20 pm »
As usual these sprites are *Excellent*, and its always an inspiration for me to do spriting when I see good work like that.

But as a "Weapon Rework", and im not sure what that means exactly, it was stated awhile back in another forum post that duplicating the style and reusing artwork pieces from existing vanilla Xcom graphics is a copyright issue.

I think somebody in our community ought to make a custom, not-eu-style rework of all of the xcom weapons and items, or we should band together and make one. Which is not only great, but also fresh (and manages to look good even at the painfully low resolution of 32x48 pixels).

Like this (attachment). Could be a Laser Rifle or Plasma Rifle.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #28 on: September 08, 2014, 12:01:50 am »
But as a "Weapon Rework", and im not sure what that means exactly, it was stated awhile back in another forum post that duplicating the style and reusing artwork pieces from existing vanilla Xcom graphics is a copyright issue.

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA!!!! :D :D :D

But the picture is very, very nice. Is it yours?

Offline RSSwizard

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Re: Weapon Rework/Expansion - Version 0.8
« Reply #29 on: September 08, 2014, 12:24:01 am »
Quote
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAAA!!
Im not sure how to take that scorch, I seem to be getting a negative reaction lately.

The pic was an example. No its not technically mine, but its a rehash and recoloring of something else, which I painted over. It will be the plasma rifle in a mod im making (and the existing handob for the plasma rifle might even be passable because of the similar coloration).

Just saying if anyone was concerned about copyrights at all, the xcom:eu style is obvious, but using other X random stuff from god-knows-where and rehashing it would be incredibly more difficult to pick out. And even then, the indicated party of whomever it might be that it was rehashed from would have to find out and bother to take offense at it. And even then it would be nothing more than replacing one sprite.

Ive got some others here in a similar vein. They arent 100% completed, may still need some editing.