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Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 1327007 times)

Offline AllyoBayes

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1035 on: February 19, 2015, 08:40:27 pm »
A few of us are having some display bugs with 0.9.8, as detailed here: https://openxcom.org/forum/index.php/topic,3355.0.html

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1036 on: February 21, 2015, 01:27:08 pm »
What mod in the modpack is responsible for the dogs?
I'd like to bother the author to add in 2 things:

1. A takedown secondary weapon that does stun damage
and
2. armoured dogs of various types that you 'manufacture' by using attack dogs as an ingredient. Really you're just making armour for them and training them.
At least power armour.


Also do you plan on fixing gauss stuff? The manufacture/sell for a lot of it is broken.
The most broken is craft gauss rounds though; set 100 engineers inf producing and selling and watch the money rain.

Also a recent change to ufo disengage timers means its pretty damn hard to catch ships sometimes because their disengage timer needs to be doubled.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2015, 02:06:35 pm by Midaychi »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1037 on: February 21, 2015, 06:10:34 pm »
If the fmp has not been updated to the latest nightly, you should just use an older one (or go in the rules et and change values for the timers, it's not that hard). I'm sure Solarius will get to it eventually.

Regarding the dog, Dioxine can up with it if I remember well and if you search here or on the mod site, you could probably find it. The XCom Armoury Expanded has dogs in personal armor equivalent. I didn't go further as I don't really like the idea of powered armored dogs. Too much investment in alien tech and resources when you can just get another dog. Sadly that's how armies think even for their soldiers. If a new suit of armor came out for millions, no country would buy it even if it might save some soldiers. Apparently you can put $ on soldiers life and if you are pragmatic, you can certainly do it for dogs.

The takedown idea is good but it seems like too good of an option. You would pretty much always rather stun than kill, unless the damage is significantly lower at which point I don't know if it's useful. I gave my dogs a "motion scanner" that requires mind probes. It represents XCOM reading the mind of the dog who can hear/smell aliens nearby. It's quite useful and complementary to the bite.

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1038 on: February 22, 2015, 05:16:03 am »
...

My thought is that, while yes I guess they're expendable, through research you could find all sorts of ways to enhance or buff dogs with cybernetics and armour and electronics/psi packages. Sure they're expendable but they're basically a HWP but fill a role that no other HWP does; a super speedy scout with melee ability. Expand on them as a modular platform. Just because they're expendable doesn't mean there isn't potential to improve them as a tool.

As for the takedown, yeah I've experimented with changing damagetype to 6 and it makes subduing aliens a lot easier. Like a speedy little drone that has a stunrod attached.  I figure however, if you make the takedown ability like 1.5 or twice the damage of melee but take like 75% or so TU to accomplish, it would mean you'd have to stash them somewhere hidden but nearby the target, and on the next turn if they survive they can basically ctrl-sprint over and start dragging the alien over. For tougher aliens you'd have to use a pack of dogs together to do it. 
It's a shame there's no way to simulate them pinning and keeping it down so an xcom soldier can sedate it. That'd be the real way to do it.

Dawgmentation.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 05:17:48 am by Midaychi »

Offline Arthanor

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1039 on: February 22, 2015, 07:20:03 am »
I agree that there is potential with dogs. I quite like them and that's why I spent the time to make an upgraded one in personal armor equivalent and the motion-scanner thing. I gave the armoured ones a carrying capacity as well so they could take gear (another way dogs are used in war). I did have a dog drop a grenade in front of two sectoids and run away but usually it does not come into play much. And then I ran out of ideas that weren't faster/tougher/meaner, which isn't really adding much to the game.

As far as I am concerned, the main use of the dogs is to spot aliens and the basic dogs already do that well. Well enough that in my current playthrough, I don't even bother giving them the armor. It doesn't save them all that often and it's much less trouble to just buy another one.. Maybe I need to increase the price.. but then it's not so good for the early game which is when they should be the most useful (early humans need all they can muster to cope with the invasion, later an armoured veteran operative with alien tech is better than anything).

I don't really use dogs to attack aliens because reaction fire on the way in destroys them. I guess maybe that's an argument for increasing the armor, but if they can close in easily they become a bit too good. I did have an hilarious occasion when a dog reaction attacked a reaper to death though, that was great! They do really well as ambushers around corners with the high reaction and fast, accurate bites.

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1040 on: February 22, 2015, 07:29:03 am »
Sometimes I get lazy and use only the attack dogs to do missions while all the soldiers just chill out by the skyranger and it works if I manage the dogs intelligently.
Its a factor of approaching them from angles, and using cover/line of sight to end turns in so they walk right past.

On a side note, I tried flying an ironfist ship from china to south america and was disappointed when it ran out of fuel 3/4ths of the way there.. even though it had a 100% load of elerium.

Intentional that the ironfist's range is bad compared to the normal skyranger? Once I found out about that limitation, I mothballed the ironfist in a remote base and replaced it with a skymarshal which is far better in a lot of ways currently for me.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1041 on: February 22, 2015, 02:47:34 pm »
A small and insignificant problem: choosing english (UK) in language options breaks the Ufopedia and all instances where you can see the names and description of the items. There doesn't seem to be a problem with english (US) or any other language, but I thought you should know this.

Yup, it's a bug. Fixed in my local version, will update soon.

What mod in the modpack is responsible for the dogs?

It's here, available for download.

I'd like to bother the author to add in 2 things:

1. A takedown secondary weapon that does stun damage

Can you please be more specific? You mean for the X-Com, or the aliens too? What type, range?

We already have the Small Launcher, the Stun Rod, the Taser, and two types of stun grenades. I can't really see much space for development, though I'm open to ideas.

and
2. armoured dogs of various types that you 'manufacture' by using attack dogs as an ingredient. Really you're just making armour for them and training them.

Perhaps, but I'm not prepared to make sprites for them. If they show up, I'll consider it (I'm sure they'd work great for the MiBs, heh heh).

Also do you plan on fixing gauss stuff? The manufacture/sell for a lot of it is broken.
The most broken is craft gauss rounds though; set 100 engineers inf producing and selling and watch the money rain.

Also a recent change to ufo disengage timers means its pretty damn hard to catch ships sometimes because their disengage timer needs to be doubled.

Yep, both fixes are coming soon. I just need to compile a newer version and am still working on a few things.

On a side note, I tried flying an ironfist ship from china to south america and was disappointed when it ran out of fuel 3/4ths of the way there.. even though it had a 100% load of elerium.

Intentional that the ironfist's range is bad compared to the normal skyranger? Once I found out about that limitation, I mothballed the ironfist in a remote base and replaced it with a skymarshal which is far better in a lot of ways currently for me.

The Ironfist has its issues, as it relies upon semi-researched alien tech. This is intentional, and I personally don't think it makes the craft that much hampered - unless you prefer to keep only one base, which has its problems. I always have several bases and never really noticed Ironfist's short range.

« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 02:55:16 pm by Solarius Scorch »

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1042 on: February 22, 2015, 11:27:20 pm »
..

Nah I meant just like the attack weapon for attack dogs but for taking down. Like I said earlier, it's a shame there's no way to simulate them pinning and keeping it down so an xcom soldier can sedate it. That'd be the real way to do it.

As for the Ironfist, I meant that to me with my lazy way of playing, with a crazy silly one main base and a bunch of outlying outposts, the Ironfist has these advantages over the skymarshal:

1. Tougher in combat, but since vanilla xcom ufos don't start attacks, this doesn't mean much.
2. Somewhat easier/cheaper to use access and egress points
3. Can hold like 2 more infantry (I go heavy on HWPS)
4. Has a flat surface on top that anyone can access

And skymarshal excels over the ironfist in these areas:

1. Doesn't use Elerium as a fuel
2. Much longer range
3. Has a backplate for cover from reactionshots for situations where you land with half the aliens facing your skyranger exit
4. flush with the ground so there's no ramp shenanigans to worry about eating your TU
5. Can get earlier in research and manufacturing tree

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1043 on: February 22, 2015, 11:42:04 pm »
Also, I've found that I never use gauss weapons in FMP. Ever. By the time I can research them I already have enough elerium that I go for laser weapons every time, especially since gauss and laser weapons are researchable choices at the same time.

With gauss, although there's definitely power and weight and firemodes on its side (and the silly 8bitish sounds are cool), lasers are just so much better. Entirely due to the damage type, because you never know what alien type you're going to face before you land, and lasers are all around good vs everything, whereas gauss will wreck some enemies and be completely worthless against countless others.

So, my thought is maybe move gauss a bit up the tech tree? Maybe put them as a result of the advanced firearms tree + some alien ufo research?

That way, you start with what xcom starts with, work up to autocannons and such, down a few ufos and a terror mission, and do research that doesn't require interrogation to get gauss.

I know it doesn't make sense conceptually because of the power source limitations, but gameplay wise It's a significant upgrade in firepower that works on early aliens but starts to become severely hampered as you go along due to damagetype resistances.

Alternatively maybe add explosive/incendiary for the starting conventional weapon set as well once you research it? I've really found that the basic assault rifle becomes my mainstay until I get dart rifles/lasers, because all the other options have problems with accuracy or lack of autofire or weight or such.

I guess I could try experimenting with shotguns, as I have usually avoided them, but I've noticed that aliens use them at extreme range with incredible efficiency..
Especially because of the way the projectiles work.

First couple times I played FMP, I'd go multiple turns with an alien shooting a shotgun at my team and not knowing until people keel over dead or start bleeding out for no good reason.

 Then I find theres some alien on a skyskraper with a caster who's been taking potshots, but not showing up on alien turn, explaining all the random potholes that keep showing up.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2015, 11:48:02 pm by Midaychi »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1044 on: February 23, 2015, 11:27:39 am »
Also, I've found that I never use gauss weapons in FMP. Ever. By the time I can research them I already have enough elerium that I go for laser weapons every time, especially since gauss and laser weapons are researchable choices at the same time.

With gauss, although there's definitely power and weight and firemodes on its side (and the silly 8bitish sounds are cool), lasers are just so much better. Entirely due to the damage type, because you never know what alien type you're going to face before you land, and lasers are all around good vs everything, whereas gauss will wreck some enemies and be completely worthless against countless others.

So, my thought is maybe move gauss a bit up the tech tree? Maybe put them as a result of the advanced firearms tree + some alien ufo research?

That way, you start with what xcom starts with, work up to autocannons and such, down a few ufos and a terror mission, and do research that doesn't require interrogation to get gauss.

I know it doesn't make sense conceptually because of the power source limitations, but gameplay wise It's a significant upgrade in firepower that works on early aliens but starts to become severely hampered as you go along due to damagetype resistances.

It makes sense. It would require more deviation from the original mod, but it's mine anyway, so I don't mind. Choosing the right prerequisites will be tricky (conceptually), but I'll think about it.

Alternatively maybe add explosive/incendiary for the starting conventional weapon set as well once you research it? I've really found that the basic assault rifle becomes my mainstay until I get dart rifles/lasers, because all the other options have problems with accuracy or lack of autofire or weight or such.

Nah, it'd make the rifle too good, especially with how accurate and handy it is. HE ammo is god.

I guess I could try experimenting with shotguns, as I have usually avoided them, but I've noticed that aliens use them at extreme range with incredible efficiency..
Especially because of the way the projectiles work.

;D

First couple times I played FMP, I'd go multiple turns with an alien shooting a shotgun at my team and not knowing until people keel over dead or start bleeding out for no good reason.

Then I find theres some alien on a skyskraper with a caster who's been taking potshots, but not showing up on alien turn, explaining all the random potholes that keep showing up.

I'm guessing aliens with toxiguns. This junk is dangerous to lightly armoured troops.

Oh, and in the next update there'll be railguns, or super-Gauss guns.


Offline SIMON

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1045 on: February 23, 2015, 12:18:36 pm »
Re: railguns, does that mean the following weapons like in the attachments.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1046 on: February 23, 2015, 12:21:48 pm »
Re: railguns, does that mean the following weapons like in the attachments.

I'm guessing you've attached the old mod with blue and green guns? (Can't check right now.)

Well, as much as a gun resembles another gun. :)

Offline SIMON

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1047 on: February 23, 2015, 12:34:10 pm »
Here's some pics, I'm currently using the mass accelerator weapons but not the railgun as if I mind right the resources and rul.files in both are named "railgun" which was a bit awkward to have them both on @ the same time. The "electro magnetic" railgun was actually quite useful to have as the research was available from the start.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1048 on: February 23, 2015, 02:15:12 pm »
Yep, that's the one.

Well, there's no substantial connection between the mods, and I won't be using the resources. Only the general idea is similar (though the old mod is rather unscientific about railguns).

Offline Midaychi

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #1049 on: February 24, 2015, 01:12:56 pm »
Any thoughts of working the awacs mod into FMP? Those mobile radar planes are super handy.

On a side note, I played a bit of the last version of ufo: 'the two sides' ever released, with a friend. The .99 version. I played aliens and my friend absolutely trucksticked me in every tactical combat because he abused smoke cover and firing blindly in a direction he thought my aliens were in. Smoke actually blocks line of sight in that game and works pretty dang well.

I also thought it was neat that aliens (even the ai controlled ones) could retaliate against/chase down your planes. It really makes flying skyrangers around all willy nilly an actual danger.