Author Topic: [COMPILATION] Final Mod Pack (FMP)  (Read 548804 times)

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #510 on: August 17, 2014, 07:44:00 pm »
I've managed to research and manufacture a Xcom CyberDisk tank. But it is fitted with a laser weapon.

It seems daft to me that I havent been able to unlock anything about Lasers yet I can use and manufacture laser cannons in this tank?

Oh the same thing applies to Plasma!
« Last Edit: August 17, 2014, 07:47:29 pm by Recruit69 »

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #511 on: August 17, 2014, 08:36:14 pm »
I've managed to research and manufacture a Xcom CyberDisk tank. But it is fitted with a laser weapon.

It seems daft to me that I havent been able to unlock anything about Lasers yet I can use and manufacture laser cannons in this tank?

Oh the same thing applies to Plasma!

Hmmm... You're right. I can't remember the tree that well right now, but if it is like you say, than I'll have to do something about it.

Now, I wonder about adding Dioxine's Improved Living Quarters Mod. However, my main problem with this is:
- If I leave the current Living Quarters as they are (at 50 inhabitants), then the Improved Living Quarters would have to be something like 250 people. And that's way too much.
- If I do as Dioxine suggested and reduce normal Living Quarters to 25 beds (with reduced maintenance and cost) and set the big ones to 125, it would be much better, but some people here will put me on their hit list.
Any thoughts?

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #512 on: August 17, 2014, 09:30:41 pm »
Hmmm... You're right. I can't remember the tree that well right now, but if it is like you say, than I'll have to do something about it.

See your ruleset

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
    cost: 20
    points: 20
    dependencies:
      - STR_CYBERDISC_AUTOPSY
      - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
      - STR_UFO_NAVIGATION

I researched all of the above three dependencies.
Probably worth adding two dependencies, the laser cannon & plasma cannon?


Now, I wonder about adding Dioxine's Improved Living Quarters Mod. However, my main problem with this is:
- If I leave the current Living Quarters as they are (at 50 inhabitants), then the Improved Living Quarters would have to be something like 250 people. And that's way too much.
- If I do as Dioxine suggested and reduce normal Living Quarters to 25 beds (with reduced maintenance and cost) and set the big ones to 125, it would be much better, but some people here will put me on their hit list.
Any thoughts?


My personal opinion (dont know about the others), I would say it is unnecessary. Typically I build 2 Living quarters, to enable me to have 100 staff. More than enough for one base! So 125 staff as you propose makes sense...

But my major gripe is the fact of having 2x2 tiles, when it is normally 2 tiles to have 100 staff, is a massive loss of limited precious available space for building facilities in a base. I feel this would be a nuisance. unless a better balance is struck, this is most likely the area I would edit back to normal when using this mod. (Everything else is pretty spot on - well done Solar!)

Offline XCOMFan419

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #513 on: August 17, 2014, 10:06:01 pm »
Now, I wonder about adding Dioxine's Improved Living Quarters Mod. However, my main problem with this is:
- If I leave the current Living Quarters as they are (at 50 inhabitants), then the Improved Living Quarters would have to be something like 250 people. And that's way too much.
- If I do as Dioxine suggested and reduce normal Living Quarters to 25 beds (with reduced maintenance and cost) and set the big ones to 125, it would be much better, but some people here will put me on their hit list.
Any thoughts?

The way I see it it's four steps forward and twenty five steps back.

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #514 on: August 17, 2014, 10:58:14 pm »
See your ruleset

Code: [Select]
  - name: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
    cost: 20
    points: 20
    dependencies:
      - STR_CYBERDISC_AUTOPSY
      - STR_ALIEN_ELECTRONICS
      - STR_UFO_NAVIGATION

I researched all of the above three dependencies.
Probably worth adding two dependencies, the laser cannon & plasma cannon?

Yeah, it should be fine...

Maybe I should add another, with a heavy machine gun? :)

My personal opinion (dont know about the others), I would say it is unnecessary. Typically I build 2 Living quarters, to enable me to have 100 staff. More than enough for one base! So 125 staff as you propose makes sense...

But my major gripe is the fact of having 2x2 tiles, when it is normally 2 tiles to have 100 staff, is a massive loss of limited precious available space for building facilities in a base. I feel this would be a nuisance. unless a better balance is struck, this is most likely the area I would edit back to normal when using this mod. (Everything else is pretty spot on - well done Solar!)

Yes, it would make things a bit harder. Still, I wonder if it's so bad. Having a bigger facility has its positive sides, like shorter building time than 4 separate blocks.

I wonder if we could leave the basic one at 50 and make the big one 150 or so, and also give it some storing capacity to make up for the increased surface? It would be the "casual" setup, since you could not build the big quarters if you didn't want to, and still play as before.

The way I see it it's four steps forward and twenty five steps back.

I'll take it as a no. :P

(But it's so pretty...)

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #515 on: August 17, 2014, 11:05:12 pm »
Yeah, it should be fine...

Maybe I should add another, with a heavy machine gun? :)

Good idea!! I just realised, if adding plasma weapons and laser weapons as a prequisite, this would pose a problem, it means both of these technologies would have to be researched to produce a Cyberdisc??? A little reshuffle of the research items may be required to divide these items into two?

Or perhaps, as you say, add Heavy machine gun or Cannon Cyberdisc, then this would act as a prequisite item required to research for laser or plasma cyberdisc?

Yes, it would make things a bit harder. Still, I wonder if it's so bad. Having a bigger facility has its positive sides, like shorter building time than 4 separate blocks.

I wonder if we could leave the basic one at 50 and make the big one 150 or so, and also give it some storing capacity to make up for the increased surface? It would be the "casual" setup, since you could not build the big quarters if you didn't want to, and still play as before.


Good idea..... that would make me consider it seriously.

 See what others think then!

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #516 on: August 17, 2014, 11:06:41 pm »
My advice would be for you to ignore the FMP while developing and testing a mod - let Solaris worry about how everything gets integrated, otherwise you're limiting yourself and your mod by trying to get everything integrated.

I've ignored it at first and my mod worked fine. Then I've tested it with the mods like Alien Armory and FMP and it *seemed* to work fine. But then my experiements changes mod loading order and the bug manifested itself. The mod worked as a standalone mod with the vanilla game. But when I've loaded a mod with four itemlevels (such as the FMP) *after* my own mod, FMP's alienItemLevels replaced my own and the missing fourth item level for one of the alien ranks caused the crash.

So I do agree that a mod should first be able to work alone. But then I've had to try to make sure it would also work with the other mods people use. All I can do now is wait for other bugs to show up.

I may also be wrong about this assertion but I've played two or three games with my terrain pack where after a year I did not have a single alien base being built and never saw any Harvest/Abductions missions. And I'm not a code expert but from my limited understanding of code syntax some things replace the original ruleset while others complement it and on this case it seems to me it replaces the code.

Like I said, I'll try to look into this, though I'm afraid it won't be today. I'll post my results once I've learned more.

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #517 on: August 17, 2014, 11:25:20 pm »
Now, I wonder about adding Dioxine's Improved Living Quarters Mod. However, my main problem with this is:
- If I leave the current Living Quarters as they are (at 50 inhabitants), then the Improved Living Quarters would have to be something like 250 people. And that's way too much.
- If I do as Dioxine suggested and reduce normal Living Quarters to 25 beds (with reduced maintenance and cost) and set the big ones to 125, it would be much better, but some people here will put me on their hit list.
Any thoughts?

I have no reason to put anyone on a hit list, every mod author is free to create whatever they wish. However... I would mod the basic living quarters back to 50 if you went the 25 beds route.

Maintenance costs are almost never an issue, the most limiting aspect of base design is the limited space. My main base usually has ~190 to 240 people and needing 8 to 10 tiles instead of 4 or 5 for Living Quarters would make me too unhappy. I'm already unable to place in sufficient base defenses and four more tiles is too high a price.




Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #518 on: August 17, 2014, 11:35:17 pm »
Yeah, it should be fine...

Maybe I should add another, with a heavy machine gun? :)


This is the temporary fix for Xcom cyberdisc.

In my case, xcom cyberdisc becomes researchable. When researched, nothing happens! Presumably, manufacturing department will confirm this can be manufactured when laser or plasma has been researched. This may baffle other users though!

Code: [Select]
  - id: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_LASER
    type_id: 3
    section: STR_HEAVY_WEAPONS_PLATFORMS
    weapon: STR_LASER_CANNON
    requires:
      - STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
      - STR_LASER_WEAPONS
    text: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_LASER_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1450
  - id: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_PLASMA
    type_id: 3
    section: STR_HEAVY_WEAPONS_PLATFORMS
    weapon: STR_PLASMA_CANNON
    requires:
      - STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
      - STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS
    text: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_PLASMA_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1451

Another point to note, "STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE: Alien Data Slate".... I am able to constantly research this item over and over and over again till I received all of the information. Was this intentional? Or would it be better that this object is to be destroyed once researched?

Offline Solarius Scorch

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #519 on: August 18, 2014, 12:02:04 am »
Good idea!! I just realised, if adding plasma weapons and laser weapons as a prequisite, this would pose a problem, it means both of these technologies would have to be researched to produce a Cyberdisc??? A little reshuffle of the research items may be required to divide these items into two?

Or perhaps, as you say, add Heavy machine gun or Cannon Cyberdisc, then this would act as a prequisite item required to research for laser or plasma cyberdisc?

Yeah, I'll go that route. Thanks for the input!

But when I've loaded a mod with four itemlevels (such as the FMP) *after* my own mod, FMP's alienItemLevels replaced my own and the missing fourth item level for one of the alien ranks caused the crash.

So I do agree that a mod should first be able to work alone. But then I've had to try to make sure it would also work with the other mods people use. All I can do now is wait for other bugs to show up.

If this really is the case, then there's nothing we can do - the mods won't get any more compatible.

Perhaps creating 4 levels was a bad idea... But it was hard to fit everything into 3, and I wanted more control over what gets unlocked when.

I have no reason to put anyone on a hit list, every mod author is free to create whatever they wish. However... I would mod the basic living quarters back to 50 if you went the 25 beds route.

Maintenance costs are almost never an issue, the most limiting aspect of base design is the limited space. My main base usually has ~190 to 240 people and needing 8 to 10 tiles instead of 4 or 5 for Living Quarters would make me too unhappy. I'm already unable to place in sufficient base defenses and four more tiles is too high a price.

OK, I'll do it the soft way then... And maybe provide an additional ruleset for those who want more challenge? I'm not sure if it's necessary.

This is the temporary fix for Xcom cyberdisc.

In my case, xcom cyberdisc becomes researchable. When researched, nothing happens! Presumably, manufacturing department will confirm this can be manufactured when laser or plasma has been researched. This may baffle other users though!

Code: [Select]
  - id: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_LASER
    type_id: 3
    section: STR_HEAVY_WEAPONS_PLATFORMS
    weapon: STR_LASER_CANNON
    requires:
      - STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
      - STR_LASER_WEAPONS
    text: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_LASER_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1450
  - id: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_PLASMA
    type_id: 3
    section: STR_HEAVY_WEAPONS_PLATFORMS
    weapon: STR_PLASMA_CANNON
    requires:
      - STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC
      - STR_PLASMA_WEAPONS
    text: STR_XCOM_CYBERDISC_PLASMA_UFOPEDIA
    listOrder: 1451

Yeah, it'd work, but I think a Cyberdisc/Cannon would be more understandable from the user's point of view. Unless you think it's a bad idea?

Another point to note, "STR_ALIEN_DATA_SLATE: Alien Data Slate".... I am able to constantly research this item over and over and over again till I received all of the information. Was this intentional? Or would it be better that this object is to be destroyed once researched?

Crap.

Well, it should work well with the "completed research destroys the item" option turned on... Which is why I haven't noticed until now.

I may be forced to remove this. :( This is just a helping hand to get plasmas anyway.

Offline arrakis69ct

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #520 on: August 18, 2014, 12:07:04 am »
Hmmm... You're right. I can't remember the tree that well right now, but if it is like you say, than I'll have to do something about it.

Now, I wonder about adding Dioxine's Improved Living Quarters Mod. However, my main problem with this is:
- If I leave the current Living Quarters as they are (at 50 inhabitants), then the Improved Living Quarters would have to be something like 250 people. And that's way too much.
- If I do as Dioxine suggested and reduce normal Living Quarters to 25 beds (with reduced maintenance and cost) and set the big ones to 125, it would be much better, but some people here will put me on their hit list.
Any thoughts?
The problem in my base is the size. I use the defend base. This is the 3 hangar in front. And the 3 line empty. Only the acces base. My problem is the space. And i prefer put 4 living quarters and have 200 people. Normally 100 sci 30 soldiers and the rest engi. 2 laboratory 2 workspace. The radar sistem 4 stores the defenses and the mental defense and the live alien fac. This facility for me is a lol. totally unnecesary

Pd: a facility that use 2 square and give 125 ex. More expensive may be interesting or a combo 100 lives and storage may be interesting.

Pdd: A facilty with 4 squares eq to 200 lives and a storage may be interesting
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 12:10:09 am by arrakis69ct »

Offline Recruit69

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #521 on: August 18, 2014, 12:12:07 am »
Yeah, it'd work, but I think a Cyberdisc/Cannon would be more understandable from the user's point of view. Unless you think it's a bad idea?

Makes complete sense, I agree with you there. Doesn't leave the users confused going "WHERE'S MY BL&&DY CYBERDISC"!
The amended code is just so that I can carry on with using the mod being played as it should be played.

Crap.

Well, it should work well with the "completed research destroys the item" option turned on... Which is why I haven't noticed until now.

I may be forced to remove this. :( This is just a helping hand to get plasmas anyway.

It seems like a good idea though, maybe suggest that the mod is to be run with "destroy item when researched"?

P.S. I'm in first year May now and haven't got to Plasmas/Laser/Guass just yet! Though I'm furiously working on trying to stun much aliens I can, with nav/medic/engineer being a bonus if it happens!

Offline Harald_Gray

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #522 on: August 18, 2014, 12:16:56 am »
If this really is the case, then there's nothing we can do - the mods won't get any more compatible.

Perhaps creating 4 levels was a bad idea... But it was hard to fit everything into 3, and I wanted more control over what gets unlocked when.

Ummm... The mods are perfectly compatible now. And using four itemlevels is a good idea too, I would have used it myself if I didn't wish to maintain compatibility with the vanilla ruleset. So other people can do what I did, i.e. define four itemlevels even when they don't need them. The fourth level causes no crashes with vanilla ruleset and comes into play if you use four levels.

This whole mess came into being because I forgot to copy one itemlevel for one alien rank. And it didn't show up during my first testing because it was dependent on mod loading order.

Would I like a better system for defining alien loadouts? Yes. But we don't have one at the moment and I don't have one I could propose so I'll simply have to be more careful in the future.

Offline Dioxine

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #523 on: August 18, 2014, 08:37:45 pm »
The big living quarters aren't for everyone, especially with limited personnel cap (my idea was you don't need a 50-man living quarters for a radar base, 25 men are more than enough so why waste cash?); certainly not for defensive base setups. I'm personally using an "assault" base setup, which is much alike defensive in regard for 3 hangars on top, only with the difference of 4 (instead of 1) access points to storm the hangars by turn 3-4 in a three-pronged attack (sides proceed faster, the central group naturally slower, as it has to clear the lift), and no space wasted on defensive systems of any kind (and that's a LOT of space), so I have no problem running 300-personnel main base in the vanilla (150 sci, 100 engineers).

So with my setup, 2 big living quarters provide 250 personnel (forcing me to stop myself at 2 labs), that's 8 space, +hangars = 20 space, + labs&workshops = 24 space, +HWD&containment = 26 space, +2x psi lab = 28, +lift = 29, leaving me with 5 tiles for stores or whatever (2 tiles on the sides of the lift must stay empty).

The idea was to both make radar bases cheaper and force the player to spread research and workshops across 2-5 bases. But it would force less turtling and everyone should be entitled to turtling if they like so :) Especially since it DOES make the game harder.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2014, 08:39:24 pm by Dioxine »

Offline Avalanche

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Re: [COMPILATION][RESEARCH] FMP Core/Tech Tree part
« Reply #524 on: August 19, 2014, 12:50:56 am »
So, I'm not sure if this has been addressed yet, but I'm getting crashes whenever I research any living Hybrid. There's no error window brought up, just an immediate CTD whenever I finish the research on a captive. It doesn't apply to researching a Hybrid corpse.

The only mods I'm using besides FMP are the No Psyonics, Improved Ground Tanks, and Improved Heavy Lasers options. Anyone else have this problem or know how to fix it?